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evilsmurf wrote:

 jaymz wrote:

That indicates one of two things......they lied that it was at the printer (possible but unlikely as that would be a new low even for them) or it was at the printer but the printer refused to the work until a payment of some kind was received.

Hmm. That reminds of a comic shop I use to visit many years ago. For a long time it did well but then in its final year before closing down shipments were always late, with the owner blaming the delivery truck, or the plane, printing delays, whatever. Until one time his wife got drunk while at lunch and came back and in front of all of us started yelling at her husband about how they were dead broke, it was all his fault and stuff now was always late because they were behind in their account with (Diamond?). So the comics didnt get delivered until they paid off some of their debt. Eventually they just shut down completely.

Running a small business is not easy and thankless. I know from experience.

As for RRT Wave 2......... still nothing huh? Wake me when something happens.

^soooo......never?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
^soooo......never?

Yeah, finished my usual rant at the Kickstarter.
I am sure it will be embarrassing to me later.
Rather sad really (PB not me...).

The only thought I have left for them is "Hurry up and go out of business.".

I have the TMNT game and I really like it.
Ton of single pose miniatures but reasonable in look.
The same license that PB had and did little with it.

Looking on the bright side: this is the best time EVER (last 3 decades at least!) for tabletop gaming.
I have never been so spoiled for choice with game systems that I like rather than just tolerate.
The sooner companies like PB can go away and stop being an irrelevant distraction, the better.

For those who pushed for Robotech as a tabletop game I have much to thank them for and they should make no apologies for what PB has or has not done: you did your bit.

 Easy E wrote:
As for RRT Wave 2......... still nothing huh? Wake me when something happens.

Please do not do that... People will think you are in a coma...

Welp, I'll be in a corner for the next six months. Looks like Kevin and his minions are going all out to try to make Carmen's upcoming face plant into a success.

Whatever will I do? Certainly it's impossible for an adult with multiple credit cards to create a second Kickstarer account, right?

Oh? Kickstarter put you in an extended time out, or did you actually get hit with the banhammer?

Huh...I got no warning or "ban" and I would say my little diatribe was worse than anything Meri did in the recent disaster called an update....

Six months in the corner. I'm sure I'll find a way to "back" Carmen's fiasco.

[MOD EDIT - Rule #1 - And please find a different way to express that sentiment - Alpharius]


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Merijeek wrote:
Six months in the corner. I'm sure I'll find a way to "back" Carmen's fiasco.

[MOD EDIT - Rule #1 - And please find a different way to express that sentiment - Alpharius]

Okay, I suggested that Kevin had used the money for cosmetic procedures at NMI's request. After all, such a thing was not on Kevin's list of "things I totally didn't spend your money on."

If it is any consolation: the efforts here in curbing some of our more "interesting" language has allowed me to leave a nasty post at the Kickstarter and not get a "time out" (so far).
Though trying to criticize ideas and not get somewhat personal takes a bit more effort in this regard.
I REALLY dislike how about 1/3rd of the post is the ineffectual "update" and then the remainder 2/3rds is what amounts to an advertisement for what may very well be another product of "vaporware".
What a mess this kickstarter is, all due to what would amount to one person.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah, I spoke too soon.
My account is "under review" at the Kickstarter so I can post nothing at the moment.
"Curse you Red Baron!" or is that NMI...

I have sent a message/feedback on the matter and hope they have mercy on my soul.
I DID feel like pushing things a bit further in what I had to say so this is some feedback anyway.
We shall see if any of the posts are deleted.
I feel like such a tough-guy now...

Having done so, I'm sure people who don't understand the Internet (you know who) are certain that their new Kickstarter is completely safe from being associated with the RRT gak show.

Anyone know when the Rifts "gack-show" is opening up on Kickstarter? I would hate to miss it...

It must be real soon, why else are they cracking down on dissenters?

I believe the Newsletters have been saying March, maybe April.

But no firm date that I'm aware of yet.

Both of those dates are past the "We Will Tell You The Wave 2 News For Sure by (X)" date, right?

 Alpharius wrote:
Both of those dates are past the "We Will Tell You The Wave 2 News For Sure by (X)" date, right?

Yes, yes of course [/deadpan]

 Alpharius wrote:
Both of those dates are past the "We Will Tell You The Wave 2 News For Sure by (X)" date, right?

Oh you!
I swear you are trying to stir-up unrest despite being a moderator... I like it.

Well, I shall ponder my opening comments for that particular KS especially with my "time out" at this moment.
At least comments are not smacked down to the same criteria (or lack thereof) as the PB forums or Facebook pages.
I must bear in mind that a lack of funding for a project is taking money from the mouth of Kickstarter as well, so they may be a bit more strict while a project is being funded.

Ah well, I ordered some materials and parts to continue with the RRT project of my own "unseen" Wave2.
I have been shamed by others doing such good work, I am overdue to show some efforts or run the risk of being an RRT poser.

I would never!

All kidding aside, I do think we should get the as promised 'definitive' Wave 2 PB Official Announcement *before* the Rifts Boardgame launches!

 Alpharius wrote:
I would never!

All kidding aside, I do think we should get the as promised 'definitive' Wave 2 PB Official Announcement *before* the Rifts Boardgame launches!

Should? Yes. Will? I wouldn't count on it.

They've already slid the date back from end of January to "in another month or so" from mid January. And it's not like Palladium have a reputation when it comes to meeting deadlines... Well... not a good reputation at least.

And given the lack of credibility and competence and articulation they've shown, even if they DO write another Update before the RiftsBG goes live (or potentially worse, while it's running), will anything short of "Manufacturing has started, and here are a whole lot of pictures of the first samples", satisfy anyone but the complete gomers that cheer on every announcement? Would it change anyone's mind, to just have more promises, even if kind of detailed? Because again, their credibility is shot.

As for Carmen, he's got this huge millstone around his neck, and while I don't think he's responsible for PB/RRT's woes, I find the complete redaction of his involvement to be more than a little suspect. But he's got to realize that while there's a base level of anger on the Kickstarter, volume and crowd size is directly tied in to how recently Palladium have posted. Most backers forget or ignore the Kickstarter except when attention is brought to it. So, an Update shortly before the release of his, or during the run, ESPECIALLY if PB are stupid enough to put out something less than exceptional and if they're moronic enough to advertise Carmen's project, is just going to be a Cat5 tornado of gak. I'll bet Carmen spends the next month or so before release alternately working on the initial release, and fervently hoping PB remain radio silent.

TLDR, Don't underestimate PB's ability to step on their own dicks, and do the worst possible thing, in the worst possible way.

Heck, I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of "Hey, Wave 2 is postponed another year, but 2018, we promise! Also, check out the Rifts Boardgame Kickstarter! It's awesome!", the day of the new campaign's release. I don't EXPECT it, but with PB, I've stopped ruling crap out. It's an amazing and consistent level of incompetency these last 4 years.

I entirely agree with you. Regardless of how allegedly unconnected the two things are, with Carmen totally doing his own totally separate thing that shouldn't at all be conflated with RRT.

Realistically, I don't think they will, because they saw how Savage Rifts went and they know that enough of the KS backer base either doesn't care or is actively hostile to the critique.

It's almost political or religious in nature. Like the console wars of yesteryear; it's not logical, it's emotional. It's about how they feel, or pushing back against those with grievances, no matter how legitimate or reasonably expressed they may be.

After the Robotech RPG Tacitcs...debacle, it is hard to believe that they have many true Fan Friends left...

Well, Savage Rifts did get about 80% of the backers and around 30% of the cash.

Not that these are astounding figures, or that there's a perfect 1:1 overlap in the Venn Diagram between Rifts fans and Board Game fans who might like a Rifts game, but I think high five to low six figures is pretty likely.

I mean, we've seen it all over; there are totally people who will support something just because doing so annoys other people. Fan Friends and some backlash support could go a fair ways.

But that's just idle speculation, obviously we don't know much about how it'll actually play out until it goes live.

I mean, the poll on the PB Forums isn't exactly going well, but even in this online world I don't think we can assume the PB Forums reflect the beginning and end of their support.

 Alpharius wrote:
After the Robotech RPG Tacitcs...debacle, it is hard to believe that they have many true Fan Friends left...

They do, though. There are enough people willing to donate money to them like they are a charity to keep them in business, and some of those people don't understand why backers weren't happy to do the same.
They have fans that donate writing to them just to see their names in print.
Fans that volunteer their time to work for the company, just to get to spend some minutes with Kevin.
Customers that will tell backers 'too bad', or mention how they don't care, or how we should have known better.
They have fans that are so angry at them that they will publicly criticise the company, but still buy every book that gets produced.

I wonder, if you were to use Kickstarter to produce a comic book based on the story of this Kickstarter, would you have to pay Palladium some kind of royalties?

I wonder, if you were to use Kickstarter to produce a comic book based on the story of this Kickstarter, would you have to pay Palladium some kind of royalties?

Not if you abstract it or call it a parody.

Though you'd probably want to check with a lawyer.

 n815e wrote:
They have fans that are so angry at them that they will publicly criticise the company, but still buy every book that gets produced.

I find this strange occurrence with many different companies and product.
I have a fair bit of GW 40k stuff and in most instances I "hate" the game rules lately but like the models and the "majesty" of it all on the tabletop.
You get so invested in a thing that love it or hate it: it is part of your life.
This is sounding too much like marriage...
Despite all the angry noises I make with Palladium, I am quite happy with the look of the game and with a few tweaks the rules run OK.

I think the difference here is providing a mixed message that you "hate" what they do (often or occasionally) but are willing to reward their bad behavior with money for fear of losing any good product they may get around to making.
I am not willing to do that.

I wonder if that is slightly different with those llikely to back the Rifts Boardgame.

From the scant facts we have it does not appear to be that groundbreaking or innovative, Carmen himself lines it up with the likes of Imperial Assulat. So no big impact there I would suggest.

Therefore the buyers are unlikely to be newbies drawn into the megaverse on the back of world class rules or miniatures, most likely they will already be fans of the Rifts rpg system. These I would suggest have been playing this system for decades are are "older" people - before you shout I am a golden oldie myself - with disposable income who have wanted a nice range of Rifts minis for a while and so are not just buying into Carmen's game - wanting minis for a fave system/tv show from the 80's sounds oh so familiar.....

These "fans" are not the most vocal on the net - PB's boards are testament to that but there is a core following who in a lot of cases seem oblivious to what has happened here - like Kev they play rpg games not push toys around.

I do not think it wil be as successful as the Savage Worlds crossover simply as that was also a rpg - and had its own fans for its system.

A modest return from KS will llikely- if left alone - allow Carmen to produce the game and given the potential low numbers of casts required , I would say potentially in a reasonable time.

The elephant in the room wiill still be Kevin, I just cannot see him resisting the urge to poke hiis nose in and cause havoc.

ugh bit the bullet and picked up 2 RRT boxed games for $20 complete with only 4 pieces built total. guess I can watch em burn

Asterios wrote:
ugh bit the bullet and picked up 2 RRT boxed games for $20 complete with only 4 pieces built total. guess I can watch em burn

You will only feel a slight pain in the wallet but hear a great wailing in the distance: PB has a warehouse to empty, they are most displeased.
I would say the price is not a bad thing.
I seemed to have collected some four of them and the adder boxes of stuff here and there.

 Talizvar wrote:

Asterios wrote:
ugh bit the bullet and picked up 2 RRT boxed games for $20 complete with only 4 pieces built total. guess I can watch em burn

You will only feel a slight pain in the wallet but hear a great wailing in the distance: PB has a warehouse to empty, they are most displeased.
I would say the price is not a bad thing.
I seemed to have collected some four of them and the adder boxes of stuff here and there.

thing of it is by themselves their value is worthless, but paint em up and assemble them and they have some value, provided the paint job is decent.

Asterios wrote:
thing of it is by themselves their value is worthless, but paint em up and assemble them and they have some value, provided the paint job is decent.

That is the challenge I find for myself: I think I need to tape/mask areas off to get nice straight lines.
On something that small it is easier than I thought to make them look like garbage with slight blobiness or a wobble in spots.
I must note: these observations I reserve for my own work, I feel I should know better and blame impatience for these imperfections.
Seeing ANYONE field models with paint on them at all makes me happy.
The nerve-wracking part is you paint everything first and when you are certain they are done: then shade.
There is no good way of going back for touchup without going back to the "block-painting" stage basically starting over.

Funny how the more I learn about painting the more I laugh and laugh about those who label their work as "pro-painted".
There is ALWAYS someone who can paint so well they make your work look like an amateur performing finger painting.
I made the mistake of handing a cousin of mine a miniature to paint and she is a trained artist.
To say I "hate her very fondly" is the best I can describe the end result of her "work" which she finished off with some comment "I need to paint in acrylics more, they are like the middle-ground of watercolor and oils." which she is more than proficient in.

So yeah, "Pro-painted" should go with a label like "BTM" meaning: "Better Than Most" if you cannot lower to the phrase "Tabletop standard" that varies wildly.
Speaking of which, I have some more miniatures assembled that need more "block-painting", worth probably zero to someone else, "priceless" to me.