Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Forar wrote:
Let's be real, any 'housecleaning' that didn't include me wasn't remotely thorough enough..

Well, yes and no. There still has to be some sort of fig leaf to put on their reasoning. As a Canadian, your natural politeness would provide some natural insulation. After all, it may be NMI running to Ma Kickstarter to report people, but clearly there has to be some eyeballs involved rather than PBs preferred rubber stamp method.

And don't forget they got Talivzar too, and compared to my level of color, he hasn't even achieved greyscale.

Merijeek wrote:

 Forar wrote:
Let's be real, any 'housecleaning' that didn't include me wasn't remotely thorough enough..

Well, yes and no. There still has to be some sort of fig leaf to put on their reasoning. As a Canadian, your natural politeness would provide some natural insulation. After all, it may be NMI running to Ma Kickstarter to report people, but clearly there has to be some eyeballs involved rather than PBs preferred rubber stamp method.

And don't forget they got Talivzar too, and compared to my level of color, he hasn't even achieved greyscale.

but what about me ?

You've been fairly quiet since you got bought ofg.

Wow, RRT KS comments are a flurry of activity.
Carmen has rather put his foot in it, very badly I might add.
One rule I made for myself was "Do not argue with customers: you do not win.".
More focus on what IS being offered would be key.
That weird "threat" of not helping out RRT pretty much doomed any logical argument he could have made.

Still on "review" at the KS so relegated off to bystander.
It certainly is hurting more now than it would have any other time.
Nothing of mine has been taken down.

I just needed to put this key blurb from Carmen here:
So I have two options... really?
Try to "destroy" his project or "leave him in peace": I think neither is the proper option.
I believe that to have not been paying attention to RRT would be EXTREMELY stupid to do if he is interested in launching his own KS.
To say he can offer many things to help RRT along ONLY IF! we all play nice.
I feel badly lied to in this regard, is it just me?
So to criticize his involvement in other projects, that his game is tied to an IP involving individuals we would not be "decent" human beings?
This is money and business.
His history and ties to other companies are extremely relevant and would be silly to pretend otherwise.
He cannot have his cake and eat it to: if he is successful it will magically sway Keven to follow his lead?
It would most likely cause the opposite affect.
He has no say in Palladium yet claims he may/could if he so feels compelled?
He appears to be a scholar in Kevin speak of his own right.

Getting permission from his wife to put money down on a board game based on a company that is owing for a KS and backers "baying for blood" is not sounding like a thing I would want to forward to my wife (she has an MBA) she would tell me it would be dumb use of our money.

Anyway, Carmen is a wee bit of a bull in China shop.
I really would not want to give him any of my money.
I would like to explore what board-games he got money on and see if his successful pedigree is as rosy as he portrays.
I am seeing so much talk of plans and what he can offer but it so BADLY begs the question: why had he not demonstrated it earlier?

I feel I am in a good position where I am "happy" with stuff I am getting / making (now) so I am only left with the feeling that consumers need to be better informed and protected from the likes of Palladium Books and those who prescribe to their methods.
I REALLY hope Carmen is not that way, but little he wrote is dissuading me otherwise.

 Talizvar wrote:

I REALLY hope Carmen is not that way, but little he wrote is dissuading me otherwise.

you see what I wrote? I basically told him he needs to get himself a PR rep cause hes doing more harm then good

 stanman wrote:

Since they like to crank out pencils cups and bags, they should totally do a PB branded toilet paper with Kevin's smiling face printed on it as I know a lot of people who'd buy it.

No.. you don't want that... Because he would go with the cheapest material possible and end up causing a bad rash... And that's one place you don't want a bad rash..

Hello everyone
First thank you Jay D. you were right. I simply did not believe the level of HATE here.
I have tried laying my cards on the table and showing a way I can help you and you can help me. But reasoning things out here is obviously not going to work, so I will just take the other advice I was given by a few of you here and just walk away. I will have no further input here. I will continue on with my KS regardless of the risks and I hope Kevin resolves the RRT in the near future. But I will not bother trying to talk it out with you anymore or returning to this page.
Thank you and goodbye.
Carmen

Oh, look, he's a victim! I swear, the only way he could be more like Simbieda is through plastic surgery and a name change.

After all, just like Simbieda he seems to think of "hope" as a business plan. I'm sure it'll go swimmingly.

Merijeek wrote:

 Forar wrote:
Let's be real, any 'housecleaning' that didn't include me wasn't remotely thorough enough..

Well, yes and no. There still has to be some sort of fig leaf to put on their reasoning. As a Canadian, your natural politeness would provide some natural insulation. After all, it may be NMI running to Ma Kickstarter to report people, but clearly there has to be some eyeballs involved rather than PBs preferred rubber stamp method.

And don't forget they got Talivzar too, and compared to my level of color, he hasn't even achieved greyscale.

That's true. Tal doesn't usually bring quite the same heat or... creativity.

 Forar wrote:
That's true. Tal doesn't usually bring quite the same heat or... creativity.

Not sure if that is the classic Canadian "backhanded compliment".

Not at all!

Your references to sexual acts are usually done with a much thicker veil.

:-P

 Talizvar wrote:

 Forar wrote:
That's true. Tal doesn't usually bring quite the same heat or... creativity.

Not sure if that is the classic Canadian "backhanded compliment".

Hmm....

www.canadiansexacts.org

A little less funny now that Alan Thicke is dead.

Isn't holding another project hostage pending the success of another against the KS ToS?

Merijeek wrote:

Hello everyone
First thank you Jay D. you were right. I simply did not believe the level of HATE here.
I have tried laying my cards on the table and showing a way I can help you and you can help me. But reasoning things out here is obviously not going to work, so I will just take the other advice I was given by a few of you here and just walk away. I will have no further input here. I will continue on with my KS regardless of the risks and I hope Kevin resolves the RRT in the near future. But I will not bother trying to talk it out with you anymore or returning to this page.
Thank you and goodbye.
Carmen

Oh, look, he's a victim! I swear, the only way he could be more like Simbieda is through plastic surgery and a name change.
After all, just like Simbieda he seems to think of "hope" as a business plan. I'm sure it'll go swimmingly.

Your outer voice sure sounds like my inner one.

My more evil side is thinking he is taking his toys and going home before a key few people are ABLE to comment on the KS back to him.
Plus, what he was observing as HATE seems awfully thin skinned, it was surprisingly civil for a forum lightly moderated (for some it seems).

I am a bit concerned with the comment of "reasoning things out".
Trying to make the argument of how the RRT folk can benefit if we support his product was a bit of a fallacy.
Not "bother trying to talk it out... or returning to this page" is a heck of a way to leave things for people he is trying to convince.
Sure there are a vocal few that will take the boots to you ... "man-up" guy.
Remember the largely silent thousands he needs to appeal to that he is choosing to convey a very negative message.
He initially made the statement of pretty much "taking it on the chin" and then this ends with a message around the line that the negativity was more than the guy could handle.

Sure he can be sullied a bit with his Palladium association.
His choice of wording is rather painful for someone who spends a fair bit of time writing.
I think the part that really slams the door for me is the short sighted way he handled the "discussion".
I am still unsure what he was trying to achieve despite what he claimed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@n815e: Good post at the KS about his not toughing it out in the forum could be bad news when it comes to toughing it out through a Kickstarter.
I agree that a certain tenacity is needed to see things through to the end.
A clear "vision" is helpful as well.
I think I would have wished Carmen well MUCH more if he had the strength of will to create something of his own.
I hate to say that basing something on Rifts barely gains any more attention than an unknown.

He reminded me a bit of Kevin, expecting the adoration of the crowds (or at least a few) and instead faces hostility and people critical of the "amazing" thing he is doing and being utterly shocked that it happened.
The attitude of "that was then, and this is now" is asking for some amnesia that only benefits him.

How on this green earth is he going to do anything different?
That is the big question.
When given the chance, I would be genuinely interested in his plans.
At the very least, his long suffering wife deserves that courtesy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thinking about Kickstarter in general:

In other news our good friend had not shown up for the "Savage Worlds Rifts" folks.
They were doing very well there and seems to have a fair bit of good will.
If I were him I would have been involved in that KS.
I hate to say if I was into RPGs of late, it would have been terribly tempting to be able to play the Rifts universe in a usable fashion.
They are in about the perfect stage for wanting a few miniatures for their characters.

My Battletech game is moving along nicely on the PC.
If Palladium EVER wanted to see their world in a game Harebrained Schemes are the perfect guys to do it.
The game engine Shadowrun uses could easily fit their rules in it and after the various materials fleshed out, there is not writing needing to be done.
Just port a few 3D models from Carmen and that could be trucking along...

I got some miniature holders for painting coming in a couple months.
So I can paint a few more RRT models, not much hope on Rifts ones but I have been surprised before.

I have some Terraform models for my various miniatures to fight around in a month or two for delivery.

Kickstarter has got some money out of me despite RRT being my first... ... I just am unable to comment on ANY OF THEM while on review.
Did I say I was on review?
Is it possible to suffer from withdrawal symptoms when unable to comment on a forum?
Unfortunately you guys are suffering the brunt of this with a wall of text.

Alpharius may have to perform an intervention.

He could have done things so much better if he didn't go the route of threatening us.

He could have gotten sympathy and support.

It was such a poor choice on his part.

 n815e wrote:
It was such a poor choice on his part.

Hmmm. I wonder (no not really!) where Carmen learned that?!

 n815e wrote:
He could have done things so much better if he didn't go the route of threatening us.
He could have gotten sympathy and support.
It was such a poor choice on his part.

You do that right?
Feel sympathy for those who are unable to see the social faux-pas they do?
No idea of the damage made by some ill-chosen words.

I feel that initially.

I then think a bit more of the sincerity of his words and what us as consumers mean to him.
I then thank the powers above that the person is not clever enough to hide what he REALLY feels.
I suspect threatening others is not far from his personality seeing how readily he got to it.

I feel more sorry for those who have found Palladium IP something they enjoy and continue to suffer through a series of petty dictators.

Yeah, I feel bad for people and want to help them.

Some people can't be helped, though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
At least he will have Jorel's support. But that was never in doubt.

 n815e wrote:
Yeah, I feel bad for people and want to help them.

Some people can't be helped, though.

Dealing with any problem is just like trying to move a mountain sometime. Every day you shovel a little and eventually you will see great progress.
With Robotech Tactics in the past years we have seen nothing but hollow words.

I also feel sorry for Kevin with his poor mind set of not grasping what he this project is doing to his company. Decades ago he was Author, Artist
and publisher that was producing games to be considered some of the best at the time. Now his legacy is going to be a convoluted game using
very outdated rules system and the Robotech Kickstarter fiasco. Most will only know him as a laughing stock and to others considered a simple charlatan.

But no one did this to him, all this mess is from his own hand. If he would originally have focused on the issue and dealt with it, we wouldn’t have this
discussion and might be excited about the Rifts Board game release.

But with every non-update he does, I truly pity him, there is no trust in what he is saying. Only trying to convince everyone he is not lying this time about anything he says.
It's very hard to give money to someone you don't trust.

Wonder how long this will last?

http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=104&t=152855


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And its kind of looking like theyre already laying the groundwork for blaming the haters in the event things go south.

In that event, they admit that their business and reputation has been irreparably harmed by screwing 5,000+ people.

Works for me.

Yeah, on FB Roache is claiming this resulted in something bad.

Well, that'll teach the cult to never communicate outside a completely filtered environment.

Maybe Carmen is actually more intelligent than we give him credit for. Maybe he just intentionally sabotaged the project because he eventually figured out that getting into bed with Kevin is financially suicidal.

 Talizvar wrote:

Spoiler:

So where does that leave us, Rogue Heroes and the RRT backers I mean? Well, YOU as the other RRT backers have two choices. Either you can do everything in your power to try and kill the Rifts: Board Game OR you can allow me the chance to complete my Kickstarter in peace.
If you take option one, I will take all steps to prevent it, but calmly and by the rules. But I probably won’t ask for you to be banned unless you get too out of hand. But I believe you would be fighting an uphill battle anyway since all of Palladium loyal Rifts fans and many of the new Savage Rifts players REALLY want me to succeed. After all, Rifts hasn’t ever had really good miniatures, it had the old metal ones, but not the awesome figures we will be producing. And if you chose this route I will write you off, when Kevin asked me to help, as happened in the past on Wave 1, I will simply step away and let it burn. I am under no obligations to help with the RRT but I DO have the contacts and knowledge to help fix it.
Or you can take option two. I don’t ask anything from you, I don’t ask you to help or support me, or give me money or do anything at all. All I ask is please be decent individuals and give me room to succeed or fail on my own. And let those Rifts fans support me as they please. If you do this, basically do nothing, I will be all in for you. Even if my KS crashes and burns I will put my efforts into getting this gak straightened out!
While I cannot divert KS funds from a Rifts KS to the Robotech KS, or get anyone a refund. There is a lot I can do that will get things moving along again. I can help Palladium get the RIGHT manufacturer for Robotech and give them the advice and knowledge they are missing.
I have answered repeated questions on the Palladium forums about my project, including coming close to breaching my contract and NDA to be as honest and open as I can be. I want to show you that Rogue Heroes is different and that I can try and make a difference here. Which is also why I am posting here and will listen to the torrent of crap that will surely come of it.
After all, who else is helping? Contacting the FTC, or the Michigan Attorney General, or the Michigan BBB, or anyone else – who cares? According to Kickstarter they (PB) are doing their due diligence in working toward the goal of completing the project, as far as the law goes he has done nothing wrong (in my opinion, if I am wrong, invest in a lawyer). After all, it does say in the Kickstarter guidelines that the estimated delivery times are just that estimated, a project creator can take as much time as they require to complete the project as long as they work on it.

If he had so much influence on PB and wanted RRT backers not to go take a dump on his new KS project, maybe he should have used his influence to actually get PB to do something first. But it's probably more BS from these jokers.

Also his tenuous grasp on what a project creator can do, ie. string people along for as long as they want provided they 'work' on the KS, is alarming and disturbing to hear from ANY KS CREATOR. Seriously, this guy is hardly the brightest bulb if he thinks is a good thing to say before launching your own KS while claiming you will be nothing like this failed KS.

 n815e wrote:
Yeah, on FB Roache is claiming this resulted in something bad.

Could you link it?

On the Robotech Uncensored group.

How about a copy/paste or screenshot of the pertinent conversation?

For those of us who aren't members of that particular group.

Yeah Tom is saying a lot of nothing because "reasons" or "not his place". Then don't say anything it just makes you look like a douche going "I know something you don't know neener neener"

So demanding!

My junky tablet won't let me do either of those with FB.

Needless to say, Roache is being cryptic and hinting in several places that the ks may not happen now, he is also back to blaming ND for ruining things.

When in doubt blame the person who has said zero and not been sued for supposedly screwing thing sup.

Oh my

Just saw this, it is kind of hilarious:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/whatuleminivan/robotech-what-hg-cant-give-you