Robotech® RPG Tactics™-License lost, the end is near!

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Desmodus**

The models in the pics seem different to me.

**Swabby**

*edit* nothing to see here, I got bamboozled by mikes old facebook post.

Man this kickstarter has gone on too long...

**n815e**

Taarnak wrote:
n815e wrote:
I don't see how anyone can defend Chapterhouse. They were blatantly using GW ip. They would show "greens" that used GW models. They used GW names. They openly bragged about it, they taunted people that told them they were asking for trouble and claimed they had a legal fund.

When GW took them to court, they publicly cried for help. They scrubbed their website and begged for legal assistance.

In the end, they were found in violation and it nearly put them out of business. GW's lawyers dropped the ball and didn't collect proof before moving forward with the lawsuit, it cost them their jobs and GW a lot of money.

In the end, while GW is heavy handed and ridiculous in its pursuit of ip defense, in this case they were justified and Chapterhouse got away with a lesser punishment than they should have. They aren't the heroes you are looking for.

You have an exceedingly poor grasp of what happened in the Chapterhouse case.

~Eric

Actually, I followed Chapterhouse for a long time before they were sued, during the suit and after.
They are not victims. However, enough people confuse this legitimate case GW had with their bullying of others and turned IP thieves into sympathetic victims by association.

**Taarnak**

n815e wrote:
Taarnak wrote:
n815e wrote:
I don't see how anyone can defend Chapterhouse. They were blatantly using GW ip. They would show "greens" that used GW models. They used GW names. They openly bragged about it, they taunted people that told them they were asking for trouble and claimed they had a legal fund.

When GW took them to court, they publicly cried for help. They scrubbed their website and begged for legal assistance.

In the end, they were found in violation and it nearly put them out of business. GW's lawyers dropped the ball and didn't collect proof before moving forward with the lawsuit, it cost them their jobs and GW a lot of money.

In the end, while GW is heavy handed and ridiculous in its pursuit of ip defense, in this case they were justified and Chapterhouse got away with a lesser punishment than they should have. They aren't the heroes you are looking for.

You have an exceedingly poor grasp of what happened in the Chapterhouse case.

~Eric

Actually, I followed Chapterhouse for a long time before they were sued, during the suit and after.
They are not victims. However, enough people confuse this legitimate case GW had with their bullying of others and turned IP thieves into sympathetic victims by association.

I never said they were victims. Your understanding is still poor. And this tangent is off topic, so PM me if you wish to continue.

~Eric

**evancich**

What the hell is the deal with that update?

We've already seen that model before, Scott had somebody fire up SolidWorks (or whatever) and change the view...

PB underestimates the tubes memory / search function

**DEZOAT**

evancich wrote:
What the hell is the deal with that update?

We've already seen that model before, Scott had somebody fire up SolidWorks (or whatever) and change the view...

PB underestimates the tubes memory / search function

You have to read RRT update 186 from Aug 2015 and RRT update 203 which have a new render of Light Zed Trooper . Now look at the Aug 2015 render of the Heavy and the Light Zed Troopers you will notice a different renders. The old one have face plates and the new which only light Zed trooper with a face with out the face plate. WOW!!!!!

That all they did in 2 years of work. They working 7 day a week on RRT KS Wave 2

sure they are.

**Genoside07**

As with all wars when it goes on long enough soldiers on the same side start to turn on each other... We all know how chapter-house ended and all can go read about it online with minimum effort.

But for the update, Scott showed us "new" renders of models.. lets not forget we haven't seen anything real from them in three years.. we shouldn't be seeing new pictures of two year old renders.
Those models should have already been produced and on the clearance rack by now..

When and if I ever get my remaining RTT; I will just flip it immediately or give it away.. as will 80% of the other backers, locally the community is long dead. With trying to find players for it is almost like
believing that Palladium games is actually working on something for it.

**Forar**

Maybe it's something from one of their 'quotes'?

Also, even if it is something old (which wouldn't surprise me), I'm guessing he's parceling out bits. Why drop everything they have, get mild praise mixed with mockery, and then get told off the next week or update for not having anything.

If they have more, I'm guessing it'll be handed out in tiny morsels for months to come. Whether or not that is indicative of substantial progress, only time will tell, but it's smarter than silence that has served to only reinforce the assumption that they aren't doing anything.

And maybe they aren't. Maybe this is a badly manipulated thing they've been sitting on for years, or from ND back in 2014, or from one of the failed quotes. It could be one of many things.

But 'oh, that's all you have to show?', eh, if Scott is trying to breathe life into a long dead product line, this strikes me as smarter than dropping 20 or 30 images in a single update and then having nothing to show for months or quarters or years to follow.

**Joyboozer**

Taarnak wrote:
n815e wrote:
Taarnak wrote:
n815e wrote:
I don't see how anyone can defend Chapterhouse. They were blatantly using GW ip. They would show "greens" that used GW models. They used GW names. They openly bragged about it, they taunted people that told them they were asking for trouble and claimed they had a legal fund.

When GW took them to court, they publicly cried for help. They scrubbed their website and begged for legal assistance.

In the end, they were found in violation and it nearly put them out of business. GW's lawyers dropped the ball and didn't collect proof before moving forward with the lawsuit, it cost them their jobs and GW a lot of money.

In the end, while GW is heavy handed and ridiculous in its pursuit of ip defense, in this case they were justified and Chapterhouse got away with a lesser punishment than they should have. They aren't the heroes you are looking for.

You have an exceedingly poor grasp of what happened in the Chapterhouse case.

~Eric

Actually, I followed Chapterhouse for a long time before they were sued, during the suit and after.
They are not victims. However, enough people confuse this legitimate case GW had with their bullying of others and turned IP thieves into sympathetic victims by association.

I never said they were victims. Your understanding is still poor. And this tangent is off topic, so PM me if you wish to continue.

~Eric

His description of chapterhouse is spot on, the guy acted like an arse, then played the victim, just like Kevin S.
Surely the next update from Palladium can't be, still waiting for quotes guys?

**Alpharius**

Enough CHAPTERHOUSE v. GW talk in this thread, yes?

**Forar**

NO!

... I got nuttin'.

yes sir.

And tomorrow we should get an 'update'. Yes yes, we all rush to show how jaded we are, of course I don't expect much of substance, but at this point I do figure words will be typed on the topic all the same.

**Joyboozer**

He's worn the quotes excuse thin already, perhaps he'll discuss why a 1.5 million dollar project that requires experience in logistics and manufacture spent so long in the hands of Kevin's assistant/ illustrator/ goose photographer, depending on the season.
A complicated 300 item spreadsheet! So complicated they finally had to upgrade from Windows 98 just to view!

**Merijeek**

New update. Holy feth what a weasel.

**John Prins**

Merijeek wrote:
New update. Holy feth what a weasel.

I begin to see some of the problem when Palladium has to send NDAs to manufacturers before they even get quotes.

**Merijeek**

I mean, we're looking at four updates, comprising several thousand words, that can all be boiled down to "We're totally getting quotes."

How is it any different from Wayne's gak, apart from this guy actually knowing how to set a bi-weekly reminder on his phone?

**Digclaw**

I'm pretty Sure Wayne was lying, but I think Scott might actually be telling the truth.

I'm kinda guessing his first day went like this.....

Scott: Ok, Where are we with RRT?

Wayne/Kev: We're, getting quotes (smirks all around)

Scott: Ok, which ones have you gotten so far?

Wayne/Kev: We're still getting them (smug grins)

Scott: O....K...... Who have you contacted for quotes?

Wayne/Kev: .....? We are still in the process of scouting names?

Scott: (Whispering to self) For the love of god! (Out loud) Ok let me get a hold of some brokers I know, I'll try to set up a conference call for next Friday

Wayne/Kev: (Horrified faces)

At Least that is how I'm seeing it ;p

**Merijeek**

OK, but still, apart from actually devoting more words to the cause, how is what he's doing different?

Hell, we've been told "possibly by the end of the year" (up until today, anyway) and the reason sprue breakdowns aren't available is because...he doesn't want to make it seem like they're farther than they are?

Two weeks ago, a 2017 was a remote possibility. But now, golly, can't show a sprue breakdown. Because they don't want to make it look like they're too far along.

Like that gak Wayne, he's not even consistent with their lies in the same update.

**Alpharius**

Update #204

Aug 1 2017
My Fourth Update
33 Comments
11 likes

Hi All, Scott here.

This is my fourth update to you. While it is relatively short, I hope you will like the information it contains.

The Hunt for the Right Manufacturer

We’ve gotten several quotes now from manufacturers, some of which are encouraging while others were not.

The manufacturer Palladium had been talking with when I came on board at the end of May has updated their quote to us. It is not what we were hoping for however, as their quoted price went up significantly. We’ve asked the broker who has been our go-between to seek additional details from the manufacturer about why the price jumped so much.

Of the quotes we have gotten from other manufacturers, we are actively reviewing and comparing several of the most promising and there are two that are very promising. In fact, we were happily surprised with one particular quote, as everything we had heard about this broker and manufacturer said they did excellent work but tended to be expensive. We will be meeting with their reps at Gen Con, along with several other companies.

We also had a soft-introduction this week with a domestic injection-molding company (our thanks to the gent who sent them our way). This is a welcomed lead that we will explore further to see if we can make it work as a domestic producer of future gaming materials who could help reduce future production time (at least on certain items) or help in other ways. We need to send them an NDA and then we’ll be meeting with them probably after Gen Con to explore what they have to offer.

With all this having been said, does this mean that the quoting process is finally over? No it doesn’t. As I wrote in my prior Update, getting a final quote is a back and forth process. I feel like we are close, but cannot be sure until we review all quotes and vet the quality of the final product. Things can still deviate (like getting back a revised quote with a drastically higher price or change when some matter is clarified, or a change in production time). And you never know when a new player might step up. I’m working on getting this process completed however, so that we can get production rolling, and share with you the progress of the production and finally get RRT Wave 2 done and in your hands.

Updating Your Shipping Information

Please provide us with your Current Phone Number and Email Address if they have also changed. If you need to update your shipping and contact information, please send all emails to: kickstarter@palladiumbooks.com. Thank you to all those who have sent in updated shipping information.

RRT - Not in 2017

Erik Solie had great advice in a comment on one of my earlier Updates. He said “Don't sugar coat it man. If there's any sort of issue or delay that comes up, be a straight shooter and simply tell us what it is.”

With the dragged out quoting process we’ve been going through, unfortunately, I sincerely doubt that RRT Wave 2 will be finished with manufacturing by the end of this year.

Questions and Answers

Question 1: Has Palladium Books Given Up on RRT?

Answer 1: I can give a definitive answer to this question - No. We have not given up on RRT, and there has not been a day since I joined the Palladium team that I have not been at work on some aspect of it. We all want to get RRT Wave 2 finished and in your hands, and relaunch the game line with new waves of product and subsequent generations of mecha and battles.

As I stated in an earlier post, I do not expect you to trust me. In fact, my exact words were “I hope that I will earn your trust as we start to make real progress toward completing RRT Wave 2.” Perhaps I should have said “visible” instead of “real”. Real progress can happen behind the scenes, but leave me without evidence to show you. Visible progress is different. So until you can see for yourselves that progress is being made (and visible proof is coming) I will reiterate that I do not expect you to trust me.

In the meantime, please keep commenting on this project. I read every single comment on my Updates, no matter what it says, and as many as I can on the comments page. I don’t take it personally. Your comments give me insight and motivation. I want to turn your frustrations and hurt into happiness (or at least less pain). I want to see Wave 2 completed and RRT expanded into more eras of Robotech. That is my goal and the goal of Palladium Books.

Question 2: Can we see the renders of part breakouts for the game pieces?

Answer 2: I do not want to post possible part breakouts at this time, as I fear it would give the illusion that we are farther into the process of manufacturing than we actually are. We are still discussing those details with the manufacturers - once we have the part breakouts set in stone I will share them with you.

Huh.

Question 2: Can we see the renders of part breakouts for the game pieces?

Answer 2: I do not want to post possible part breakouts at this time, as I fear it would give the illusion that we are farther into the process of manufacturing than we actually are. We are still discussing those details with the manufacturers - once we have the part breakouts set in stone I will share them with you.

I always like the Illusionist character class in 1E AD&D.

Really hard to play well, and really hard to get illusions to 'work right' too.

Huh.

**Joyboozer**

He really hopes we like the update, which stills says we're getting quotes. fething smartarse.

**Morgan Vening**

I don't mean to be "that guy", but I have a fairly simple question.

Where the hell are the Force Orgs?

At the start of July he became aware of the Force Orgs.
July 5th he asks backers if they want it.
July 18th he says they'll get refined and uploaded.
August 1st, no mention.

This should have been done BEFORE his July 18th Update. That it's still not done is endemic of the Palladium problems, despite Scott's punctuality on generating Updates.

As Forar said in the Update, this is similar to Wayne's "breakdown of Wave 2" thing. Just get it done.

**Stormonu**

I am happy that they are talking to us on a regular basis again. Scott is coming across as just a more diplomatic version of Wayne, and way more sane than Kevin.

But that's about it.

It's still the same rehash of "we're waiting on quotes", "Force Org? Squirrel!!!" and so forth. Maybe he'll have some lovely pictures of geese to post before coming down with the crud for Gencon.

Overall, it seems nothing has changed, now we're just getting the BS directly on the KS, and getting it biweekly instead of weekly - in a more wordy fashion. I tried not to get my hopes up, but I do feel strangely disappointed - knowing full well it would have been the same old song and dance.

And yeah, I was wondering why the Force Orgs STILL haven't been posted yet. That should have been a no brainer done BEFORE his first post - not even a "do you want it", but "hey, it's here now!"

**Sining**

The quotes increased because they're sick of dealing with PB all the time. When a customer keeps asking for quotes, at some point, you just don't think they're serious and you go 'feth it' and give them crap

**Joyboozer**

It's increased because the manufacturer got word of Palladiums reputation, pretty sure I've discussed this in either this thread or the previous one.

**Kid_Kyoto**

Seeing those old renders reminded me of when I was enthusiastic for this project.

**Genoside07**

There is so many State Procrustes that have gone after kickstarters and honestly 1.4 million is not small beans stuff.

Has anyone tried to see what their state AG has to say about this??

**Forar**

Genoside07 wrote:
Has anyone tried to see what their state AG has to say about this??

Yes, a bunch, over the years. The general response was usually to kick responsibility to another group ("I can't help you, contact the MI AG") or simply claim to be unable to assist.

**TwoGunBob**

I think it's safe to say if they are now having a sopper sekrit meeting at Gencon with a secret cabal of plastic manufacturers, that they're exhausted options in China and shown themselves to be as much clowns behind the scenes as they appear to be in front of the curtain. I'd agree that the openings Palladium has sent has been requests of extension of credit and none of the companies are going for that one. Wouldn't it be funny if the meeting was with Tony Reidy of Defiance Games? We have a reliable company with years of experience in doing things the Palladium WAY!

Someone may want to advise Scoot and Kevayne that if the man with the plan is Tony Reidy that they may want to reconsider that approach. Scoot may just be dumb and unenlightened enough not to have heard of Tony the Bobblehead and his blatant stealing of funds.

**Krinsath**

John Prins wrote:
Merijeek wrote:
New update. Holy feth what a weasel.

I begin to see some of the problem when Palladium has to send NDAs to manufacturers before they even get quotes.

Well, they don't want to put in the work of developing the idea for a product line, putting tons of effort into making sensible designs that could be made fairly quickly and then show it to a company and have that company decline and turn around and make an eerily-similar but slightly more knock-off-ish product based on the demand illustrated for the initial effort. Certainly they don't want someone to run a crowdfunding campaign for said idea and raise...let's say $1.44M on over-promising things and then putter about for the next half a decade when the original idea likely would have been much faster and better quality.

I mean, sure, it's unlikely that such a thing would happen to this franchise *cough*again*cough*, but PB loves you guys too much to take such risks.

**wilycoyote**

Interesting they mention a US fiirm, for injection moulds, is this a unannounced change?

Anyone have an idea who they are? Some are speculating it the same com[any who did the Heavy Gear KS?

**Talizvar**

Good stuff guys, life has been a bit distracting as of late.
Yep, big freaking pile of RRT stuff in my hobby area.
I am unfortunately working on my RRT models like PB is working on Wave2.
Sad really.
I DO like the models when I get them together but I would almost rather suck on metallic paint than put a Valkyrie squadron together.

Funny that, it sounds like the FFG motto (or is that Harmony Gold?):

Anyway, yes a different flavor of non-update by PB.
Harmony Gold is looking for settlement money, I will have to look up what products they get money from and boycott them on principle.
Going after any element of Battletech or HBS for that matter is rather maddening.
HG as pointed out often is the biggest barrier to stomping robot media for us, not a "fine" producer of it.