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I was looking at that "New Release" page, and just have to wonder when the 8 1/2 x 11 version of Southern Cross was finally released. I have the magna size and had been lkeeping an eye out for when the full-sized was going to come out - it snuck past me.

Grrr. Completionist me wants it so I have a full-sized set. Rational me says not to give money to PB. Wonder if I can get a used copy somewhere and satisfy both sides...

 Easy E wrote:
I have this niggling feeling that this thread serves no further purpose and is instead just sucking the air out of the rest of the Misc Sci-Fi Forum.

I mean, how much can we say, "Grrrr. Palladium! You suck!" before it just doesn't matter anymore?

Edit: On Topic. Still have 2 core boxes and extra Destroid boxes that I have not even opened.

Have you tried to post your concerns constructively to the Palladium Books Forums? I think the only person that has done so without being censored or banned for trolling is Forar. You literally are policed for saying anything that can be construed as negative towards the company even if you attempt some semblance of diplomacy. So this forum, and others similar to it, are the only outlet to vent our frustration (or increasing, as it were) at a company that has a rather well documented history of not delivering on a timely basis.

Don't get me wrong. I do want to see Wave 2 make it to reality. But clearly PB did not due their due diligence and jumped onto a bandwagon they were neither capable or prepared for.

Do they deserve every ounce of my contempt and frustration? By the Divine Emperor's toilet plunger, feth yes. I contributed to it. Like others involved with this, I gave my money, as others did to the tune of 1.4 million, to help finance a project that I wanted to see on the tabletop. So as long as the discourse is civil, I will voice my displeasure at PB in a constructive manner... and if it prevents some poor soul from committing their coin to a company that is run as shoddliy as this one, the better off they will be!

 Easy E wrote:
I have this niggling feeling that this thread serves no further purpose and is instead just sucking the air out of the rest of the Misc Sci-Fi Forum.

I mean, how much can we say, "Grrrr. Palladium! You suck!" before it just doesn't matter anymore?

Edit: On Topic. Still have 2 core boxes and extra Destroid boxes that I have not even opened.

We post here because it's cheaper than driving to Kevin's house and punching him in the face.

I wouldn't say that...

I would say it's cheaper than trying to find a lawyer to file suit against Palladium for a refund probably totaling on $30-$55 in the end.

Hmmm, my youngest hopes to become a lawyer. Perhaps he'll be done with law school and take the case on behalf of his dear old dad pro bono as a favor? I mean, we have the time he's in 7th grade right now and this will still be in the same status by the time he finishes law school I'm sure.

Seawolf wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
I have this niggling feeling that this thread serves no further purpose and is instead just sucking the air out of the rest of the Misc Sci-Fi Forum.

I mean, how much can we say, "Grrrr. Palladium! You suck!" before it just doesn't matter anymore?

Edit: On Topic. Still have 2 core boxes and extra Destroid boxes that I have not even opened.

Have you tried to post your concerns constructively to the Palladium Books Forums? I think the only person that has done so without being censored or banned for trolling is Forar. You literally are policed for saying anything that can be construed as negative towards the company even if you attempt some semblance of diplomacy. So this forum, and others similar to it, are the only outlet to vent our frustration (or increasing, as it were) at a company that has a rather well documented history of not delivering on a timely basis.

Don't get me wrong. I do want to see Wave 2 make it to reality. But clearly PB did not due their due diligence and jumped onto a bandwagon they were neither capable or prepared for.

Do they deserve every ounce of my contempt and frustration? By the Divine Emperor's toilet plunger, feth yes. I contributed to it. Like others involved with this, I gave my money, as others did to the tune of 1.4 million, to help finance a project that I wanted to see on the tabletop. So as long as the discourse is civil, I will voice my displeasure at PB in a constructive manner... and if it prevents some poor soul from committing their coin to a company that is run as shoddliy as this one, the better off they will be!

Exalted!

Dakka Dakka - your place to vent peacefully!

TalonZahn wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
I have this niggling feeling that this thread serves no further purpose and is instead just sucking the air out of the rest of the Misc Sci-Fi Forum.

I mean, how much can we say, "Grrrr. Palladium! You suck!" before it just doesn't matter anymore?

Edit: On Topic. Still have 2 core boxes and extra Destroid boxes that I have not even opened.

We post here because it's cheaper than driving to Kevin's house and punching him in the face.

...so this ^ doesn't happen out there in Real Life!

TwoGunBob wrote:I wouldn't say that...

I would say it's cheaper than trying to find a lawyer to file suit against Palladium for a refund probably totaling on $30-$55 in the end.

Hmmm, my youngest hopes to become a lawyer. Perhaps he'll be done with law school and take the case on behalf of his dear old dad pro bono as a favor? I mean, we have the time he's in 7th grade right now and this will still be in the same status by the time he finishes law school I'm sure.

It's within the Realm of Possibility!

 Genoside07 wrote:

http://palladium-store.com/1001/category/Just-Released.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Reign
https://www.acdd.com/the-rifter-76.html
https://www.acdd.com/nightbane-dark-designs.html

I selected ACD because its a decent sized game distributor that lists release dates on their products.

Looks like the tumblers, 2 rifters and Rifts® Secrets of the Atlanteans that just was released right before GenCon.
So it is now September and they officially have 2 (Originally called Bi-monthly) magazines and one official book out.
Nightbane is listed as Pre Order on ACD website and I trust the book has not been released.

The tumblers are no real work internally I am sure.. Just send in art work a certain size and everything else is done..
There is a dozen websites that do that from coffee mugs to T-shirts.

So only One real release this year in 9 months of 2017, but yet they promise each year that RTT will be released this year..
They added Scott to help out, so Kevin can do more work, but I think it will be more the same.

Minor point of correction, but the Rifter has always been a quarterly publication.

I think posting here allows me to "think out loud" enough so I do not appear completely insane when I post on the Kickstarter page.
I will not need any comments on how well that is working out for me...

 Talizvar wrote:
I think posting here allows me to "think out loud" enough so I do not appear completely insane when I post on the Kickstarter page.
I will not need any comments on how well that is working out for me...

All things in perspective, Talizvar, its likely working as well as my posts. A part of me feels sorry for Scott, as he is in the unwelcome position of getting his backside handed to him by the backer community over things he had no control over from the beginning. However he has put himself in the firing line, and while he has made some effort to try and be positive, Palladium has hung the poor lad out to be broadsided by the entire community. Its not his fault for trying to put forth an olive leaf, and not his fault for the gak-fest this kickstarter has become. So I am more than willing to cut him a level of slack that I won't give to Kevin. I rightly don't care how personable he is, or approachable, or if he is gosh-darnit a good human being. He fethed up on an epic scale reserved for those that talk in theater and won't fess up to it.

Merijeek posted this apology from another Kickstarter having difiiculties: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/460966263/horrors-of-war-a-convenant-with-death/posts/1964137. This is how you fess up and earn back some faith and credibility in the community. But hey, this is Kevin Siembieda, and we know he won't admit he is wrong.

 Seawolf wrote:
I think the only person that has done so without being censored or banned for trolling is Forar.

They did give me a time out once, I think it was before Gencon 2014, maybe to silence some local criticism while a few extra eyes might be on their forums.

The weird thing is that they haven't banned me, but instead go through the (likely meager, but ongoing) effort to delete some of my posts without applying any kind of disciplinary action (like a warning message or further temp/perma ban). I noticed this once and called them out on it, it was never really addressed, the people involved just kind of figuratively looked at their shoes for a bit.

They do it to Morgan too, and even weirder will do so repeatedly as he just reposts the same comment again and again. I don't recall the highest number of times he reposted something to find it deleted again, but I think it was double digits. It's not even that their moderation is a bit draconian, it's that it's so... passive aggressive. If one of us acted out in these forums, I have full faith that a mod would likely give us a slap on the wrist and advise us to shape up, but while the PB forums have a reputation for being moderated by some particularly zealous individuals, they would rather quietly delete dissenting opinion and hope nobody notices than just ban those voices entirely.

I mean, their house, their rules, but it seems like it'd just be easier to show Morgan and I (among others) the door than keep removing posts. They certainly weren't shy about blocking dozens (possibly hundreds, but it's impossible to know for sure how many) people from commenting on their FB page.

I know we're drifting a bit from RRT to discuss the PB forums moderation practices, but I think it shows that a lot of the problems with this campaign aren't restricted purely to said campaign, they may be endemic to the culture that PB staff exude and the people they give power to.

Maybe they just figure the banned people would come back under new aliases and can't be bothered (or aren't able) to block by IP, but spoiler alert; I don't remotely give enough of a feth to jump through many hoops to post there.

 Desmodus wrote:
Minor point of correction, but the Rifter has always been a quarterly publication.

Ehhhh. It's "quarterly", as in I seem to recall not too long ago that they had a massive backlog on them and released 2 back to back. So there might have been 4 that year, but half of them came out something like a couple of weeks or days apart (if not literally at the same time).

Though at a glance, Google seems to indicate that the first one was released in the late 90's (possibly early 98?), which would about fit for back when I was still collecting their stuff, and that'd mean 19 years later we're up to the high 70's (the latest newsletter talks about 78 and 79), that's more 'on track' than I would have expected for them.

 Easy E wrote:
I have this niggling feeling that this thread serves no further purpose and is instead just sucking the air out of the rest of the Misc Sci-Fi Forum.

I mean, how much can we say, "Grrrr. Palladium! You suck!" before it just doesn't matter anymore?

Edit: On Topic. Still have 2 core boxes and extra Destroid boxes that I have not even opened.

I gotta admit, this thread helped to ground me when I was frustrated over the delivery snafus with the Dropfleet Commander KS.

It doesn't need to be a competition on who has it worse, but yeah, this is my go-to campaign when talking about complete clusterfeths.

I've heard a saying in many places; 'good, fast, cheap, pick 2' (or a variation thereof, like "you're lucky if you get 2").

While they clean up okay under skilled hands, the raw work necessary even to build a single squad makes me question the 'good' part, and the rules seem weighed down by ties to the RPG stats as well. It's nowhere near fast at 4 years and counting for full delivery, and even standard prices at CoolStuffInc don't put us ahead much at all without the remainder of what we are owed.

0 for 3 for many, maybe 0.5 or 1 out of 3 (if I'm counting those who do seem to enjoy the game, but realistically we can't ignore the massive delays or negligible savings, not matter how patient or forgiving some people are).

Just kind of musing aloud how it's almost impressive how spectacularly this has failed, and continues to do so.

If Wave 2 had delivered, we would have at least have gotten the "cheap" as about each model would be about $2.50. With, I think, only about 40% of the delivery we've recieved, that's about $6 a model - that's GW territory prices.

And nowhere NEAR the quality.

I am somewhat surprised that PB hasn't attempted a Mospeada/New Generation kickstarter to try and deflect from/fulfill this KS, but I guess that would have required honest-to-goodness work to set up and they can't connive ND into doing their work for them anymore.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The one thing that bothers me about this whole mess is that every time I intend to start with a positive comment, it sails off the burnt bridge from PB and crashes into the flood waters below. :(

Nah, we're a lot higher than 40%, at least in tiers.*

A Battle Cry tier ended up with 96 models in it, and eventually settled at 97 because they realized 'oops we're putting 2 Battloids on a sprue'. Of those we got 70, so we're over 2/3 of the figures delivered by raw numbers.

What we got more like 1/3 of was figures by unique count, of which there's something like 3 dozen different figures (counting VT/Guardian/Battloid as different figures, of course), though that eventually dropped slightly with the admission that Rick and Roy's 'unique figures' were just going to be Battloid only, like Max's.

* Yes, when you include add on packs, a given backer may have gotten more or less than that 70'ish percent, but as a whole, that's kind of the rule of thumb. 70/97 isn't quite 3/4, but for napkin math I'd accept it. My group ordered mostly tiers, so when those plus some extra Destroid kits arrived from our 'Daedalus Attack' add on, I think we came close to 600/800 figures we were owed, give or take a few on both ends. But a lot of 'value' (in terms of game diversity and actual financial worth if bought) is wrapped up in that missing 1/4 or so, probably a bit disproportionately, but I haven't looked at the math or spreadsheets for that in years.

 mdauben wrote:

 vonjankmon wrote:
If you are a fan of Robotech but have not watched Macross Frontier you need to fix that. Robotech is how I was introduced to the whole mech franchise thing so it holds a special gilded place in my heart but Macross Frontier is seriously good without having to have the "Watched it when I was a kid" gilded memories that Robotech has.

+1

The whole idea of mashing up an idol series and a mecha combat series sounds mad, but Macross Frontier really makes it work. The intercut concert scenes and mecha combat in the first episode are truly epic.

+1

 Stormonu wrote:

I am somewhat surprised that PB hasn't attempted a Mospeada/New Generation kickstarter to try and deflect from/fulfill this KS, but I guess that would have required honest-to-goodness work to set up and they can't connive ND into doing their work for them anymore.

You bring up a VERY good point there - do we think Palladium has done ANYTHING since Ninja Division said "We're out!"?

Probably not, right?

Yikes.

 Alpharius wrote:
You bring up a VERY good point there - do we think Palladium has done ANYTHING since Ninja Division said "We're out!"?
Probably not, right?
Yikes.

In all honesty, I think only ONE thing that was done after ND was the Armored Valkyrie.
Looking close, I "think" they took the original model and made very slight changes (head swap, mirror left arm to remove gun arm)
I seem to remember grabbing the card from the CAD model group fan/friend they had print it for them.
I think they still have the test print model around, I even held it at Anime North a while back (Wayne was freaking out a bit about being careful... if that worried, do not offer for the person to see it.).

WithintheDungeon wrote:
I don't' remember Bill saying that folks weren't paid or worked for free at Kevin's request, I think that is inaccurate.

I don't have a citation. My days of documenting that stuff are long gone.

I think the employee's name was Justin? There was an announcement from Unca Kev that this employee was leaving for other pursuits as well as a kind of subtle jab that the former employee couldn't hack it in the RPG business. Later, the employee explained that Unca Kev asked him to work without pay and explained that at Palladium Books nearly everyone was expected to "take a turn" not being paid. I'm fairly certain Bill Coffin popped up and confirmed that this type of thing was common even when he worked at Palladium. It was years after the epic Bill Coffin rant.

It might have been stated on theRPGsite. If it was elsewhere, it was probably at least linked to from there.

I think it was Jason Marker. I seem to recall seeing a post about how things were done at PB and it included things like how the lights were rarely turned on in the offices and when he had joined, the Robotech RPG line was floundering with noone at the helm.

Funny how things still haven't changed and Palladium somehow still hasn't gone under.

I hear that they got a $1M+ US cash infusion a few years back.

That probably helped them stay afloat.

Can anyone here sing? The most obvious answer to fix this whole situation that we have been missing the whole time is to sing songs like "We will win (when wave 2 ships)" and "Lonely toy soldier boy"

How have none of us figured this out when using evil catchy pop songs about love in the face of adversity in order to chill everyone out is the primary lesson of our much beloved series?

Simple, they targetted the 40-year-old demographic that lost (or in my case never had) the ability to sing and dance.

I think we all associate more with the models Rick built - and the YT-4 he dropped and broke in "Goodbye, Brother".

Just one more reason why Rick sucks. He is totally a model abuser.

But seriously, we could totally win this if we inspire Kevin with the power of song and convince him that we, the little kickstarter backer peasants are really just people who need love too!

It would totally work. I suggest "To be in love (with Kevin)" as a start. We could totally serenade wave 2 right out of china with that number.

How about 'I am a fan-friend. And a fan-friend just believes!'

Hmm. I might have to try spoofing the Book of Mormon as Books of Palladium.

Follow the misadventures of 2 Palladium Fan Friends/White Knights in their (futile) quest to become Megaversal Ambassadors.

 Swabby wrote:
Can anyone here sing? The most obvious answer to fix this whole situation that we have been missing the whole time is to sing songs like "We will win (when wave 2 ships)" and "Lonely toy soldier boy"

How have none of us figured this out when using evil catchy pop songs about love in the face of adversity in order to chill everyone out is the primary lesson of our much beloved series?

 Alpharius wrote:
It's within the Realm of Possibility!

Not for the Robotech RPG, but perhaps for that other roleplaying game...

Meanwhile, Ninja Division has moved on....I missed this a couple weeks back -
http://ninjadivision.com/ninja-division-signs-license-with-games-workshop/

Let's see... A brief look and this is what I found.

http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=107613

Mon Sep 14, 2009: Bolded Mine

"Jason Marker told me he wasn’t surprised by this turn of events, and that I probably shouldn’t expect him back in 6-8 weeks. That he felt with the baby coming he needed to find work someplace where he felt more secure (and I imagine, a job with a medical plan). I was disappointed by the news, but told him, “I understand.”

I do understand. I respect Jason's decision. I'm sure it was a difficult one, and I wish Jason well. A man has to do what is best for his family, and the role-playing industry is going through some rough times. I think things will level out, but God only knows when. I can’t give Jason any assurances in these wild times, so he has decided to look for other work. We all hate to see Jason go, but we all understand if that’s what he feels he needs to do.

Wayne Smith ain’t going anywhere. You can count on Wayne being around for as long as Palladium. Back during the Crisis of Treachery, Wayne, Alex, and all the guys worked three weeks without pay. Alex, Hank and Julius were laid off for a couple of months, this time around it was Wayne’s and Jason’s turn."

http://rosswatson.blogspot.com/2012/06/normal-0-false-false-false-en-us-x-none_19.html

Blog Interview:

RW: What is something really bad about working in the RPG industry?

Jason: Everything else. The pay is lousy, the hours stink, it's feast of famine all the time with either too much or too little work, writing is lonely, and I'm either too busy or too broke to do other extracurricular activities. That being said, it's very much worth it and I wouldn't change what I do for anything.

And this was in 2013 (something awful) assuming it Jason Marker (in the comments)

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3547622&pagenumber=1

Well, one thing I can talk about is the general office atmosphere. I worked from home mostly since the office is about thirty miles away from my house (I'm in NE Detroit), but once a week I'd go in for various things and it was always weird. The office is dead quiet, all the doors are closed, most of the lights are kept off (to save electricity)... it's like a tomb in there. Also, Kevin has no personal boundaries, wants everyone to be BFFs, and will tell you the most intimate details of his personal life at a moment's notice. The man has no filter. It's a pretty strange, inappropriate, and toxic environment.

Yeah, the "editing" is a joke. If Kevin writes it, Alex and Julius (both of whom are incredible sperglords and total yes-men) "edit" it, all the while telling Kevin that it's awesome and the best thing they've ever read. If someone else writes it, then Kevin re-writes it, gives it to Alex and Julius who then "edit" the manuscript, all the while telling Kevin that it's awesome and the best thing they've ever read and only he could have fixed the obviously deeply flawed original manuscript.

This is, as you can imagine, a total joke. I one time went through a manuscript after Alex and caught a ton of super basic spelling and grammar mistakes, not to mention a couple of structural problems with the manuscript. This is after it'd gone through two sets of eyes and about a month on various desks. I brought this up to Himself and his answer was, Well, you have to remember, he's not a professional editor... He's been an Editor for twenty goddamned years! For money! That's the loving definition of a professional!

Anyway, there's also zero editorial guidance. There's no styleguide (just read any of our books and do it that way!), Everything seemed, to me at least, to be a guessing game as to what Kevin wanted, and the sum total of his editorial direction usually amounts to little more than, That's a great idea! Just write it!. Kevin doesn't believe that writers can edit/re-write their own work, nor can they follow directions. He told me that to my face. I didn't get a single re-write or piece of editorial direction until after I got laid off and started working for Fantasy Flight in '09.

(sorry if this is a little ranty/rambling, I spent all day in the sun doing yard work)

So I wrote half of the Shadow Chronicles core rulebook and did some other things, including giving myself a job as "freelance liaison" which I never really got to do fully since Kevin's a crazy micro-manager. In June of 2008 I worked my last studio job and went full time at Palladium, where I became the de-facto "line editor/Creative Director" for the new Robotech RPG. (I gave those titles to myself, mind you. I busted my rear end on Robotech, brought the sexy back, and dealt directly with Harmony Gold). I had my ups and downs, had a little meltdown while working on the Southern Cross sourcebook, and became more and more convinced that I was in a dead end position. Like I said earlier, it was a pretty toxic working environment, there was no real guidance, and, whether or not it was fair or true, I was terrified that one day I'd show up and the whole place would be locked up and out of business.

I got laid-off in September of '09, with my first daughter on the way. The story of me getting laid of and then mentioning it on Facebook was a huge drama bomb, as you might imagine, and I threw myself into drinking a lot of bourbon and working on my motorcycles while I collected unemployment and looked for jobs. I started the serious job searching in October, and got picked up by FFG for the first Rogue Trader sourcebook based on the strength of my Robotech work. The rest is history.

Interesting Factoid:

As for R:tSC's layout, I couldn't tell you. My job started and stopped at . Layout was all Kevin on that one. Speaking of that book, the manga size version was the very last book PB did that was laid out by hand without use of computers. The first book PB digitally laid out was the special edition hardback of Shadow Chronicles.

I'm still, after all these years, sinfully proud of my work on Robotech. There I was, writing primary continuity for an IP that had a huge impact on my stupid, small-town central Ohio childhood. My first published books with my name on them, my first projects where I carried a lot of the responsibility and guided a lot of the creative decisions (along with HG, who honestly, were pretty good to work with). There were some decisions, specifically on Southern Cross, that I didn't agree with but that's the bidness. Man, I had so many plans for that game line. I have to admit, I'm still a little bitter, and you'll notice that since I got laid off in September of 2009 pretty much fuckall other than the abysmal New Generation sourcebook has come out.

For Southern Cross, part of my desperately wanting to bring the sexy back to that IP was making it into an army, Band of Brothers kind of drama. I mostly succeeded, but got stymied by some editorial decisions above my pay grade.

I've got three d-bees in that book. That whole thing was one of the rare collaborative efforts between freelancers. Kevin discouraged us from collaborating.

Wayne Smith ain’t going anywhere. You can count on Wayne being around for as long as Palladium. Back during the Crisis of Treachery, Wayne, Alex, and all the guys worked three weeks without pay. Alex, Hank and Julius were laid off for a couple of months, this time around it was Wayne’s and Jason’s turn."

Did anyone else read that with a super creepy Misery style held captive undertone? Everybody loves it here and nobody... is... going... anywhere....

If a business closes, do NDAs still apply?

Sorry, been away for a couple days for work. I remember the stuff WithinTheDungeon linked to, and on reread Kevin and his employees come across as just as dumb and pathetic as I felt they were when I first read it.

 Forar wrote:
The weird thing is that they haven't banned me, but instead go through the (likely meager, but ongoing) effort to delete some of my posts without applying any kind of disciplinary action (like a warning message or further temp/perma ban). I noticed this once and called them out on it, it was never really addressed, the people involved just kind of figuratively looked at their shoes for a bit.

They do it to Morgan too, and even weirder will do so repeatedly as he just reposts the same comment again and again. I don't recall the highest number of times he reposted something to find it deleted again, but I think it was double digits. It's not even that their moderation is a bit draconian, it's that it's so... passive aggressive. If one of us acted out in these forums, I have full faith that a mod would likely give us a slap on the wrist and advise us to shape up, but while the PB forums have a reputation for being moderated by some particularly zealous individuals, they would rather quietly delete dissenting opinion and hope nobody notices than just ban those voices entirely.

I mean, their house, their rules, but it seems like it'd just be easier to show Morgan and I (among others) the door than keep removing posts. They certainly weren't shy about blocking dozens (possibly hundreds, but it's impossible to know for sure how many) people from commenting on their FB page.

It was ten times reposting, so 11 times actually posted. The excuse I got apparently only happened because Forar mentioned it, else it'd probably STILL be going on. Because I'm stupidly stubborn, and they're stubbornly stupid.

When presented with an arguably reasonable explanation, I stopped. When they just deleted it, with no notice, no explanation (so I knew what the offending thing was, because my posts on PBForums are fairly benign), and no idea who to appeal to, I figured what the hell. Due to past issues, I've taken to Print-SaveAsPDF most of my posts, or the posts of people that have a good point or information that might be useful at a later date, so it was easy to cut and paste my response. I took to doing this because of the Mod's heavy handedness with deleting not just specific posts, but entire threads. If a thread is fairly negative, and someone gets overly offensive, instead of just deleting that post and issuing a warning, it gives them a "good" excuse to delete the thread outright.

The issue at stake was that my post was considered off topic because it was in a dead thread (inactive for more than a year), resurrected by someone else, and I was answering the new guy's question. The new guy's post wasn't deemed off topic, but mine, which was just a response, was. When it finally came down to it, a mod said there was only three possible options available to him. Delete my post, delete my post and lock the thread, delete my post and lock the thread and issue infractions. That it never seemed to occur to him that TALKING TO ME about it was an option seemed to be a completely foreign concept. Personally, I think the argument for deletion was questionable, but I could at least understand the argument.

I'm not a completely unreasonable donkey-cave. As Forar and Mark Johnson can attest, IRL I'm a perfectly reasonable donkey-cave. A little bit of fair communication goes a long way. But how can we expect the mods to do that when the PB rulership don't. Fish stinks from the head down.

Morgan Vening wrote:
As Forar can attest, IRL I'm a perfectly reasonable donkey-cave.

Ehhhhhh. *non-committal hand wobble gesture*

:-P

Nah, Morgan has to be pushed pretty far for something to get serious, and he's not wrong about how that all went down.