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A bit off topic...

But, I got the temp ban for posting business info in the Rifts Board Game Kickstarter. The email with Kickstarter was... "You cannot post private information, so on and so forth." The issue was I didn't post anything private (which I pointed out to them) but the address as Rogue Heroes place of Business... And direct documentation of Rogue Heroes LLC (which was good for one year on a two year project, but 'oh but no red flags there...), which is also not private information...

What's always been funny about Kickstarter... Is they continue to make legal distinctions, without any understanding of legal terminology. (and no I'm not a lawyer). As if they're day is not coming, but I'm pretty certain it is eventually.

 Swabby wrote:
Can anyone here sing? The most obvious answer to fix this whole situation that we have been missing the whole time is to sing songs like "We will win (when wave 2 ships)" and "Lonely toy soldier boy"

Nope, but that didn't stop whoever it was that dubbed Minmay for Robotech, so...

Look, I know this is probably obvious, but I'm still shocked at the 'revelation' that PB has more likely than not (!) done NOTHING in terms of actual work on this project since ND left.

Well, aside from the physical 'work' of shipping Wave 1.

But NO work done on Wave 2 stuff at all.

Zero.

 Alpharius wrote:
Look, I know this is probably obvious, but I'm still shocked at the 'revelation' that PB has more likely than not (!) done NOTHING in terms of actual work on this project since ND left.

Well, aside from the physical 'work' of shipping Wave 1.

But NO work done on Wave 2 stuff at all.

Zero.

I am sure it is very hard work trying to come up with a reason week after week why nothing has been worked on.

Sad truth is Scott's next update will be more the same...by Christmas most will think he is just Kevin's alter ego..

Everyone knows the game is dead except Kevin.. he has just not taken time to look

 Albertorius wrote:

 Swabby wrote:
Can anyone here sing? The most obvious answer to fix this whole situation that we have been missing the whole time is to sing songs like "We will win (when wave 2 ships)" and "Lonely toy soldier boy"

Nope, but that didn't stop whoever it was that dubbed Minmay for Robotech, so...

Pretty sure that was Reba West.

No idea why I remember that.

So, I just went to see what she was up to these days (Reba West) and came across this:

https://rebeccaforstadt.com/my-name-really-isnt-reba-west/

"I have to admit. Sometimes I feel like I have multiple personalities. Back in the 80’s when we were working on tons of weird Japanese animation projects, we didn’t have a contract with the union. It wasn’t until Robotech came along that we realized that maybe we should protect ourselves and most of us came up with fake names. Mine was Reba West. For some reason it stuck. "

All of these people are scumlords

I don't understand the comment Swabby. She's a scumlord because she took a stage name? Or are you refering to PB & HG?

 Alpharius wrote:
Look, I know this is probably obvious, but I'm still shocked at the 'revelation' that PB has more likely than not (!) done NOTHING in terms of actual work on this project since ND left.
Well, aside from the physical 'work' of shipping Wave 1.
But NO work done on Wave 2 stuff at all.
Zero.

It is a shock for the "normal" world of commerce.
It is oddly pretty darn common working in the orbit of a narcissist.
If it is not "convenient" to give return on investment, then the customer can wait and be grateful for the opportunity to prolong the transaction.

 Stormonu wrote:
I don't understand the comment Swabby. She's a scumlord because she took a stage name? Or are you refering to PB & HG?

"didn’t have a contract with the union. It wasn’t until Robotech came along that we realized that maybe we should protect ourselves and most of us came up with fake names. "

It isn't that it is a stage name, it is the reasons for taking it.

I want thanks you guys for the link for the youtube of GenCon 50 interview of Kev. I watch it and the back ground of it. I wonder if the people who were buying the books were real or staged . The other is I read that Scott Gibbons live in Texas and he work from home? Which mean he no where near Michigan and the PB office warehouse in Westland . So what all of your take on this. I hate to say this is major joke because he don't know what going at the office. Later

I haven't watched the video, but when I was at the con and happened to swing by, I'd see a number of people milling about checking things out at a given time. People will stop and look at just about anything at a con, you could have 'limited edition sculpts made of dog poop' and someone would probably stand there eyeing them for five minutes.

We have to remember that as much as we know that PB's name is dirt, this isn't a universal thing. They're a niche of a niche of a niche market, and while their reputation certainly precedes them to some degree, you're also packing tens of thousands of potential customers into an area, some or even many of them who might have no idea who PB is. They're a little fish, if an old one, and I could totally see myself walking up to a place with a bunch of book covers like that and mulling around a bit.

Now, if the video has them ringing up sale after sale of encyclopedia thick stacks of books and thousands of dollars in artwork (some sketches were sitting on the table listed for up to $600, probably more, though not protected or framed as I'd expect something allegedly that valuable to be), I too would call shenanigans.

But if you're just referring to people standing around perusing their shelves, yeah, that happened. As much as we might have wanted it to be a ghost town for a touch of Karma, it wasn't generally whenever I walked by. And due to their location, in general and in proximity to some places I actually wanted to be, it was a fairly solid number of times.

Hey Forar I just watch it again it was about 5 people buying books and at the start of the interview Kev had to sign book for a customer. Now want know any of you all here new that Scott Gibbons the business manger of Palladium Books. Live and works out of Texas, so how hell does he know what hell going on at Palladium Books office warehouse in Westland Michigan. So all those conference calls back and forth is what going on. I'am surprise that no one talking about this. Scott Gibbons is nothing more then a spin master here. No wave 2 at all.

People have been talking about that, but most are giving him the benefit of the doubt until such time as he no longer deserves it.

Of course, we're rapidly approaching the 'no longer deserves it' mark, I think...

The big problem I have with him being out of state, is that it means all information (except for easily verifiable stuff*) comes to Scott through the filter of Kevin and Wayne. And those two have proven to be as untrustworthy as feth.

* While I'm not saying that Kevin would lie on balance sheets and other financial/business documents, I would not take it as guaranteed that he wouldn't.

So, unless Scott is conferenced in on all calls, and has a mosrtly permanent video link, the information he is given is suspect at best.

His last update looked like he edited down an email he got from Kevin.

Scott's effectiveness is going to be very limited by not seeing for himself what goes on day-to-day. There was no excuse for him to not be at Gencon, meeting with suppliers and relying on Kevin.
I imagine Kevin wasn't willing to pay to fly Scott out. It wouldn't surprise me if all of PB staff is jammed into one cheap motel room, with Kevin getting the bed.

I'd love to see an episode of The Profit featuring PB.

We are likely never going to get any real satisfaction out of this.

In D6 terms, the chance of us getting Wave 2 is rolling a 6 on a D6 and being forced to re-roll successful rolls 57,000,000 times.

MI has a 6 year limit on debt. So, we've got to be close to that.

We'll get an update from PB saying blame is everywhere but on PB's shoulders.

Something like:
1) We attempted to work with new suppliers to reduce the part count, since PB fans were clamoring for that

2) #1 took XYZ years, and during XYZ years, HG lost the Robotech license! Oh noes!

3) Based on #2, new Robotech folks asked us, PB, for 1 billion dollars! We miss those fine gents at HG.

4) If the supplier was faster and if you all could handle models with the existing part count, you'd have wave 2. If the new Robotech folks didn't try to rob us, you'd have wave 2. Us, Kevin, Wayne, Kev-I mean-Scott tots did everything, but whatever. The world is a mean and unfair place. We just wanted $1.5M, I mean to make a Robotech mini battle game, I mean $1.5M,

I get that technically it matters where Scott is to do a job he claims he was hired to do... But so far his job seems to be the RRT update guy... I'd have to think it paid something, though I wouldn't expect it to be very much.

It wouldn't matter if in was in Michigan and under the table during the "business call." Whatever Scott posted (as an employee) would still be filtered through Kevin or he wouldn't have job. If he reveals any truth, that Kevin doesn't approve, he won't have a job. If Scott is getting paid as a business manager and anything legal gets aimed at least the dude will have plausible deniability...? If he is in Texas.

What I'd like to see is the evidence of his whereabouts... Texas has been mentioned; where did that come from? Where is the proof? (links?)

I doubt Scooter talks directly to Kevin but rather emails Wayne. The only time Scooter hears from Kevin is angry calls wanting to know why the Robotech backers are still pissed because Scooter is being paid to shut those ungrateful peasants up already.
Keeping in mind that Scooters info from Wayne is probably the same as what is in the Palladium updates so Scooter has nothing to work with anyways. Asking Wayne for renders and whatnot falls on deaf ears so Scooter is left with nothing to update about so he's doing a mad scramble to keep Unca Kevster happy which is impossible because he's dependent of Unca Kev telling him something, anything.
I'd feel sorry for Scooter but he had to know he was hiring on to be the Kevin's target of abuse because this whole Robotech mess isn't Kev's fault but rather a marching column of BETRAYERS, one after the other and Scooter appears to be the latest one.
If only he'd have just let Paulson go ahead this would be over with and probably a popular game but alas wishes and all that.

I don't see how Paulson would have done better than ND.

 n815e wrote:
I don't see how Paulson would have done better than ND.

ND did a very good job with the stuff before they were hamstrung by PB and there's no way I could have gotten things made in plastic as I simply haven't had that type of resources (although I know who to contact). They also did an outstanding job on the graphic elements which is not my forte. I just make resin and metal minis, the size that this KS grew to was much larger than anything I would have wanted to manage and also accounts for a lot of PB's problems as it's not something I think they were expecting either and it's swamped them with responsibilities they cannot deliver on, maybe they should have thought twice about burning bridges with ND? Since they broke away from dealing with PB, ND seems to be doing just fine with putting out their own quality lines and handling sizeable KS projects so Robotech's failures certainly don't reside with ND.

 paulson games wrote:
Since they broke away from dealing with PB, ND seems to be doing just fine with putting out their own quality lines and handling sizeable KS projects so Robotech's failures certainly don't reside with ND.

You are very kind; however, ND / SPM's world isn't entirely smooth sailing lately. While the Super Dungeon Explore: Forgotten King KS was reasonably delivered, their more recent Super Dungeon Explore: Legends KS originally estimated to deliver Dec. 2016, then "spring 2017", currently has no delivery date, with nothing visibly produced. We don't know if they'll deliver this year or next, as SPM ignores any such questioning; many backers are estimating actual delivery Q1 2018. SPM also appears to be ignoring numerous refund requests.

In the mean time, SPM has launched several other projects, both KS and in-house. Many suspect that SDE:L funds were diverted to fund unrelated projects, which is why SDE:L is so late.

The project management has been awful, and I'm sorry to have defended them in the past.

I wasn't comparing ND's work to yours, but rather the end result with PB souring the relationship. That was foregone.

Could someone answer this...?

Where is a link or info (something) which proves or suggests Scott G. operating from Texas?

Read his updates. It's not speculation, he has flat out stated it.

Merijeek wrote:
Read his updates. It's not speculation, he has flat out stated it.

Thanks... I just re-read all of Scott's "Updates" on the RRT page and I don't see him mention his physical location... He does reference in one that he is at the Palladium Books offices... I will go Check the Murrmers... (?)

Edit: Just Check the Murmers nothing there... Mentions he was at the office when the gal who made the tumbler stopped by...

So yeah, breezed through Twitter... Nothing there...

So can anyone assist with a link (for the win)

WithintheDungeon wrote:

Merijeek wrote:
Read his updates. It's not speculation, he has flat out stated it.

Thanks... I just re-read all of Scott's "Updates" on the RRT page and I don't see him mention his physical location... He does reference in one that he is at the Palladium Books offices... I will go Check the Murrmers... (?)

I just went through them and didn't see any mention either. I think one of the backers looked up his address somewhere (via Linked in?) and posted about it in the comments. Maybe it was Meerijeek?

 Stormonu wrote:

WithintheDungeon wrote:

Merijeek wrote:
Read his updates. It's not speculation, he has flat out stated it.

Thanks... I just re-read all of Scott's "Updates" on the RRT page and I don't see him mention his physical location... He does reference in one that he is at the Palladium Books offices... I will go Check the Murrmers... (?)

I just went through them and didn't see any mention either. I think one of the backers looked up his address somewhere (via Linked in?) and posted about it in the comments. Maybe it was Meerijeek?

Meerijeek, says he flat out read it... In the updates.

And I'd like to add a bit ago I did some sleuthing of my own, but I didn't find anything linking Scott to Texas. What I found was residence in MI, as a plushy toy creator... But I really couldn't confirm that-that Scott Gibbons, is this Scott Gibbons.

I'm half surprised this email at this point wasn't a 'We had Wave 2 packages arriving, but they all got wiped out by the hurricane' type blatant lies, given how apparent the current ones are.

So... Update 207 is up.

Manufacturers are quoting. As they have been for almost three months now under Scott's tenure. But they're getting close. Promise! No general timeline for when that'll be locked down, obviously. Details are of the debbil!

Issues with the bases are completely handwaved. But he still wants to hear feedback! What's the point if you're going to ignore the general lack of detail, the issues with the scoring, or the raised detail issue? It's not stated, but it does look like they're only going with a singular base for 40mm and 50mm. So if you wanted any kind of diversity, you're gak out of luck.

Thoughts and prayers for peoples in harms way, and that's basically it. Woo!

Still no mention of the revised Force Orgs. 10 weeks since it was first announced, 8 since they'd do it, 4 since "putting it off until after GenCon" and the last time it was mentioned. 3 since GenCon finished. If this isn't a microcosm of exactly what's wrong with PB, I don't know what is. It's simply the smallest job they've had to do. And they can't NOT feth it up.

Oh, it needs to be playtested. You know what'd be good for the fething community? Allowing them to be part of the playtest. PB's fething fascination with "it it's not fething perfect, we're not gonna fething do it!". Which would make sense if anything they did was even close. Miniatures? Not perfect. Rules? Not perfect. Blast Template? Not painted. Certain cards? Not printed.

Heck, Wayne's twentysix month late report on the "status of everything", if you take his word for it, sounds like it was derailed because a few things were in flux, and instead of passing on the information on the first two bits of "some have been approved for tooling, some are still pending minor changes, and a couple are being reworked to reduce part counts while preserving detail", not having detail on the last bracket meant the whole thing got held up indefinitely.

Basically, unless the Force Orgs are a complete rewrite that makes everything prior moot, then it's at best, a couple of quibbly issues, where points might need to be shaved or expanded, or access to certain units/upgrades/characters needs to be modified. It's not f'n rocket science. And it shouldn't take more than a couple hours to do, from scratch, for a relatively robust version, including the graphic design (they already have the art/font/templates). They've had ~320 business hours, give or take. That assumes not breaking for GenCon, but also assumes only a 40hr work week, which Kevin would die before admitting was all they do.

I know they're in a bind for bigger reasons (funding, manufacturing, etc) than trivial stuff like Force Orgs. But it's the constant screwups of the little things that make people untrusting that PB can handle the big things.

Do ONE thing right, gaks. Just one. That's all that's needed to start.

Scott is going off the information that he is given, since nothing is being done there is no information to be had, but thought it would be a good idea to update every two weeks with nothing to report.
Something like what Kevin was already doing.

No one has asked him if he had a supplier for a product that he already paid for had dragged his feet for three years, how would he hand it?
I am sure the answer would be legal action.

But most backers have already wrote it off as a lose and don't care what happens and the rest is like herding cats.

Even if everyone pulled together having any kind of agency (government) to put down the hammer on Palladium, we would need to have some type of video go viral to push it forward as in the police
abuse of a nurse in Utah. That was crazy bad and until the lawyers release a video, anyone from the local government finally reacted to it because they could no longer avoid it.