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Actually, the whole 'where is the money, Scott?' thing is mostly to do with demanding an accounting of where our $1.4m (plus backerkit addons) went.

Pretty much everyone is aware that PB is a straw man as far as suing or getting refunds is concerned.

For my part, I'd like to know where the mistakes were made. It's unlikely I'd do any more than contribute to a class action suit someone else started. I have better things to do with my time. I do think that attitude in a lot of the stung backers is the only thing that's saved PB to date.

winterdyne wrote:
For my part, I'd like to know where the mistakes were made. It's unlikely I'd do any more than contribute to a class action suit someone else started. I have better things to do with my time. I do think that attitude in a lot of the stung backers is the only thing that's saved PB to date.

All you need to do is look no further than: Kevin Siembieda. The decisions were ultimately his, and this is where we are. I do not see anything that saves PB in this matter as everything they have done has only continued the frustration of backers like myself. The continued delay continues to cause problems.

Siembieda needs to be held to task. If there is a better way to do so, I'd like to hear it.

It's just speculation* by backers at this point, until PB are up front about it** and say 'we ran out of money at this point, because this call was made by PB / ND / whoever'.

*: With a lot of anecdotal evidence and very easily argued logically.

**: Extremely unlikely to occur voluntarily. Most likely way to force it is discover phase of a class action suit, however that needs money throwing at it in large quantities, which would likely not be recoverable in any case, as PB are not likely to actually have the money.

Yes.

This one is most likely doomed to limp along, having can (x) kicked down the road until a suitable scapegoat can be identified at which time a pseudo-admission of 'guilt' will be given, there will be no money left, allegedly non-cooked books will be show 'explaining' where it all went and PB will serve as a Kickstarter Cautionary Tale for the ages...

Which is unfortunate. I heard recently (as i understand it) that harmony gold's robotech license expires in 2020 (please correct me if i'm wrong). Given the bad blood they've acquired over the years with the sources (like macross), this might have been the last best chance to produce a robotech minis game before the whole thing disappears.

 Torga_DW wrote:
Which is unfortunate. I heard recently (as i understand it) that harmony gold's robotech license expires in 2020 (please correct me if i'm wrong). Given the bad blood they've acquired over the years with the sources (like macross), this might have been the last best chance to produce a robotech minis game before the whole thing disappears.

Its March 2021 that they lose the licence

http://www.animenewsnetwork.cc/news/2017-09-14/harmony-gold-macross-mospeada-southern-cross-licenses-still-expire-in-2021/.121372

 Original Timmy wrote:

 Torga_DW wrote:
Which is unfortunate. I heard recently (as i understand it) that harmony gold's robotech license expires in 2020 (please correct me if i'm wrong). Given the bad blood they've acquired over the years with the sources (like macross), this might have been the last best chance to produce a robotech minis game before the whole thing disappears.

Its March 2021 that they lose the licence

http://www.animenewsnetwork.cc/news/2017-09-14/harmony-gold-macross-mospeada-southern-cross-licenses-still-expire-in-2021/.121372

Well, at least i was close and fairly correct. I used to have the box set of robotech (lost it the last time i moved), and i still think i have the shadow chronicles movie floating around somewhere (lost the 'proper' cover when i lent it to a friend :( it's sitting in a cd-computer jewel case atm :( ). But yeah i've basically got just over 3 years to decide if i want to get it again before the apocalypse happens (and to be fair, robotech the series hasn't really aged well). Robotech may well not exist at all in 4 years time, which makes the minis game more of a shame given how it turned out.

Ouch, finding I am spending a fair bit of money "completing" my RRT game.
At least the various models I will have all in relative scale and I can use or adapt whatever rules seem best.
Other than the principle of the thing: taking money with no intent on exchange for that money, I can let things go a bit better.
I REALLY have to thank the various artists / fans who are doing this side work to fill the model void that Palladium Books has so utterly failed on.
It still boggles my mind they get that wave 1 out, kinda the "potatoes" of the steak dinner... filling, tastes ok but as asked before: "where's the beef??".
I believe utterly anyone who develops product I like SHOULD get my money.
This mess I unfortunately am making an exception... they have my money already right?

Well, we've been at this gak for nearly 5 years now, at least there's a finite amount of time on the clock.

It shall be so sad, such a betrayal, a Crisis of Treachery Regarding Intellectual Property Rights. PB will have to share another giant summer 2015 style missive, declaring how truly sad they were, how they worked like demons for years, but it was all for naught.

What? Give refunds from the remaining money? Oh, so sorry, but there just isn't anything left. Between all they spent on wave one (just the backer's stuff, that is, all that extra stock was totally paid for with their own finances), and the extra costs for the molds, and the extra costs in shipping. All those renders and prototypes and everything adds up. The advertising, etc, etc.

We've been reading this bullgak for so long, I think we could probably write the Update of Great Disappointment ourselves.

It is funny though, just how much money PB has been leaving on the table. From all the people showing off resin cast figures and 3D printed parts, the toys bought in their place, the custom work done, the community has spent thousands, maybe tens of thousands or more on stuff they should've been able to buy (if not already own). We'll never know how that actually might have shaken out, but it speaks to the passion the community has that some people have bought or made things they technically already own.

At least we've learned that Demons can survive being boiled for years on end...

That's some good RPG knowledge right there!

 Forar wrote:
We've been reading this bullgak for so long, I think we could probably write the Update of Great Disappointment ourselves.

+1 This... it's more accurate and truthful then what we've been getting via updates.

Did some interesting math:

$1,442,312 raised by the kickstarter (yes, more with backerkit but bear with me).
Say, half got spent for wave 1.
= $721,156

Now if that money was invested (try not to laugh), at 3% interest compounded monthly for 4 years:
= $812,979.37 total
= $91,823.37 interest made.

I would really like to see if the money was doing anything over that time period in those completely truthful records kept.
They could say they were waiting 11 years (~$280,000 interest made) until the money was back up over a million again to complete the project!
But, it would really be only 1% due to 2% inflation so an equivalent of ~$84,000.

How much is Scott making these days?
Would he count as RRT direct expense?

Ah but if RTT monies were invested in safe interest bearing accounts, you want to bet that PB will only report that only the original investment is for RTT. The extra monies were incidental and not part (at least directly) of KS funds so they could be used as they wished.

Maybe Kevin decided to reinvest in that srefire winner gRifts the boardgame?

So it looks like the latest (non)update will be delayed "due to a personal matter".

I'm kinda hoping it's that Scott wised up and is looking for a job that has a future.

The Palladium gig cannot be Scooter's only job. You can't EAT Rifters and Unca Kevvy's good intentions to cut you a check at some undisclosed time in the future. If Scooter is getting a regular paycheck it has to be coming out of the dwindling Robotech bux supply.
Maybe Unca Kev likes to pay Scooter to yell at him about things that Scooter doesn't have any control over. Scooter's regurgitating Simbeidanese so it's not like he's WORKING on the Robotech debacle just rewording the same garbage Unca Kevayne has been throwing out for years now.

Even as someone who has been giving them gak for years, I have a hard time taking this childish nickname stuff seriously.

Not that anyone cares, but I can't say I'm glad to see it move from the KS comments section to here.

 Forar wrote:
Even as someone who has been giving them gak for years, I have a hard time taking this childish nickname stuff seriously.

Not that anyone cares, but I can't say I'm glad to see it move from the KS comments section to here.

I'm not glad to see it spread at all. Nor am I particularly thrilled it directed to Scott. He can only do so much with the position that he is in. I have my issues with the way this was handled, but my ire is directed at the one ultimately responsible: Kevin Siembieda. The remarks being directed at Scott, are not warranted. Let's face it, Carmen may have dug his own grave but Kevin didn't need to parade his personal information to the masses to be used as more fodder later on. So if Scott decides to bail, and this is a good reason as any, it will give Kevin fodder to excuse more delays.

I'll cut Scott some slack, life happens, move on. But I won't attack or crucify him for separating his work life from his personal life.

I don't wish ill on Scott, but if he was the business man Kevin claimed he was, the last update would never happen.

They should already have the frame work on what was going to be sent out mid last week and with today's technology
He could do most of his work on his smart phone from a bathroom stall in a hospital or funeral home if needed.
Clearly he is remote access from Texas, what is the difference doing something across town instead. Most successful
business don't close for any reason.. If it was something truly bad in his life.. Kevin or someone should step in and
post the information already agreed upon.
I think this is our first sign of Scott giving up...

He is already on update number nine.. that means he has not had any real information in 4.5 months. In most companies
with hired in senior staff decision maker or major project holders only have 18 months to get it implemented or out the door they go...
Plus both Kevin and Scott admitted he worked there for a few months before saying anything.

So we are close to 8 months in to "Scott's Project" and still have nothing to show for it. If I worked for a company that
had product orders from customers and paid for and can not show any type of improvement in six months.. Fan Friend or not, I would
be out the door on my own..

Personal isues are irrelevant. I neither need, nor want to know about them as a customer / backer.

All I see (with that very focussed viewpoint) is that an update has been delayed to us, indicating that there is no contingency or plan in place to pick up Scott's duties if for whatever reason he is unable to perform them, that no progress has been made since wave 1 shipped and there is no indication of any progress being made that hasn't been put forward before and proven itself to be nothing.

Pretty much.

Almost nothing has changed since Scott signed on, in terms of info provided or actual progress on Wave 2.

I don't know, I referred to him as Scott for like the first couple updates but he quickly slid into a puppet I lovingly nicknamed Scooter P. Vespa because his opening salvo was how he'd earn our trust and completely failed on every level. He's getting a paycheck of some sort, even if it's old Rifters and Star Wars action figures so he's getting compensated for his time and energy, unlike every backer of this dumpster fire. According to Unca Kevvy, we already got our full compensation but whatever. If Scooter had one iota of professionalism and showed himself as a firm hand as a project lead I'd probably still call him Scott. Unfortunately Scooter has proven to be a Siembieda puppet with Unca Kev's hand so far up his ass he can't speak his own words.

Childish? Yeah, but it eases my utter disappointment in yet another empty promise speaking Palldium fanfriend pretending to be a professional.

I have a problem with empathy in my day-to-day relations as it is. I have moved beyond even feigning empathy for Kevin and his cronies, to the point I have come to feel anything bad that happens to them anymore is kharmic retribution.

That said, I find it mystifying that the gist of the update couldn't have been prepared already, but it's pretty much moot anyways - there's only so many ways to say "we're dead in the water".

 Alpharius wrote:
Almost nothing has changed since Scott signed on, in terms of info provided or actual progress on Wave 2.

Kevin has a new messenger for people to shoot.

I wonder if Scott will be "fired" for not delivering, and then Kevin can "take charge" so another messenger can be sent forth.

I'm hoping "Casey" gets to be that guy.

Who is "Casey"?

Given the Impending Crisis Of Intellectual Property Licensing via HG via (X), we know that the can....can and will be kicked down the road until...2021?

But honestly, I can see HG getting the license renewed - "Robotech" is just about a dead property anyway. Especially now, with PB's bungling of this Kickstarter.

The license holder will weigh some money from HG vs. 'unsure' and/or 'no' money from...no one else wanting it?

Is there enough demand for this line and associated things for them to go it alone in the USA at this point?

"Casey" is Carmen's new name on KS, after he riled up the RRT backers in the RRT KS. Dude didn't even have the balls to keep his name.

 Alpharius wrote:
Who is "Casey"?

Given the Impending Crisis Of Intellectual Property Licensing via HG via (X), we know that the can....can and will be kicked down the road until...2021?

But honestly, I can see HG getting the license renewed - "Robotech" is just about a dead property anyway. Especially now, with PB's bungling of this Kickstarter.

The license holder will weigh some money from HG vs. 'unsure' and/or 'no' money from...no one else wanting it?

Is there enough demand for this line and associated things for them to go it alone in the USA at this point?

"Casey" appears to be a derogatory nickname for Carmen Bellaire, in much the same way Scooter is used. I don't know why, I don't see how it's funny, but that appears to be the origin.

I can't see HG getting the licensed renewed, but not for the reasons named (the hostility between the franchises), but for the overlap that would result in marketing. Because that's the key issue. The Robotech license as it stands now, excludes mutual promotion. It's the reason Macross isn't available through normal channels. So we don't know what the Japanese IP holders think of the market opening up.

I don't think Macross will be the smash hit some fans might think it is, but the potential for toys and things of that nature to be open to the US and other western markets, might make them hesitant to renew the older franchise, at least initially. After a year or two of open market, maybe the licensing fee would be a factor in reconsideration, but I don't think it'll be an uninterrupted licensing issue.

There's also the movie. Having a singular license under the control of one company, opens that up a lot. And I can't see any company holding the IP to want another company like Harmony Gold able to modify the IP and potentially corrupt it's value. It's one thing for the Japanese company to want a US distributor, it's another for them to give them creative control like they've had.

Yeah, Casey demonstrated the skills he had to offer to save the Robotech disaster. After his board game was done in Cleopatra 2025 he'd totally have turned his attention onto Robotech. At least he demonstrated he had nothing to bring the project and his promises to 'save Robotech' were as empty as Scooter's updates. Even if Casey's Kickstarter had worked he's have been involved drawing on cocktail napkins for years and completely unable to even look at Robotech much less guide the trash barge into dock somewhere.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
"Casey" is Carmen's new name on KS, after he riled up the RRT backers in the RRT KS. Dude didn't even have the balls to keep his name.

....? Wow. So I assume if he ever gets his act together and re-starts his KS campaign, he'll have to do it under an assumed name?

There's Carmen the board game designer and then there's "Casey" the guy who threatens backers of Kickstarter projects that he feels will have a negative impact on his "dream" of being a big league game designer. It's not a nickname but a lame attempt at Carmen to cover his social bungling by chaning his name on Kickstarter so links don't go to Carmen but the mysterious "Casey". I call him "Casey" in kind of a "won't get fooled again" kind of way. Carmen is the one that decided on the Casey nickname, we've just kind of run with his course of action.

 Alpharius wrote:


But honestly, I can see HG getting the license renewed - "Robotech" is just about a dead property anyway. Especially now, with PB's bungling of this Kickstarter.

The license holder will weigh some money from HG vs. 'unsure' and/or 'no' money from...no one else wanting it?

Is there enough demand for this line and associated things for them to go it alone in the USA at this point?

From my understanding, it CAN'T be kicked down the road. Tatsunoko can only license the cartoon itself (minus some 41 characters/items) - for DVD/on-air display, but not merchandising rights for toys, games, etc. Meaning PB would not be able to continue producing RPG products nor the tabletop game rules nor models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, this was where my understanding came from: https://youtu.be/XoMs6iYXyng