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 Genoside07 wrote:
So, clearly no one is asking for RTT at game stores now and this is why Palladium books has a giant pile of them in their warehouse. Never understanding why
product isn't moving... Blame the internet I guess..

Genoside - I am going to disagree with this statement in part. Initially, from what I saw reading what was out there was hopeful optimism about the potential for this game under Ninja Division auspices. If you have been following the gakfest that is the RRT updates, and I am presuming you have, then you are well aware that the warning signs posted for the world to see came in short order. This domino effect compounded the already damaged reputation that Palladium has amongst the community as a whole. This damage existed before the internet, and will exist well after PB closes its doors. Additionally, and someone please fact check me on this, Palladium has gone to a direct sales model. Were a retailer to carry their product they do not go to a third party distrubitor. If PB has terms and conditions that make carrying the product either too expensive or too impractical to carry, then a retailer will likely special order it upon a customers request (if any) or not carry the product at all.

Word of mouth still carries a lot of weight in the local and national communities. I would bet good Robotech Bucks that if you go anywhere where their is a healthy gaming scene, you will find someone that has heard of Palladium and either likes them or hates them. Personally, I have yet to meet anyone in the middle. We gave Palladium the benefit of the doubt only to see that Palladium insists on doing the same thing over and over again only to blame the community for their errors of judgement.

I had given up on hope of Wave 2 at least a year ago. t seems the "fight" to keep Kevin from getting away with his con job is coming to naught, so I am finally and utterly giving up on RRT. May PB and HG rot in hell, I'm out.

<Edit> Actually, Kevin has done such a terrific job he got a three for one - I will no longer buy from PB, HG nor will I ever invest in a Kickstarter again. Great Job!

 Seawolf wrote:
good Robotech Bucks

Surely that's an oxymoron?

Seawolf, You are correct about Palladium becoming direct but I don't think it's by choice. Like Columbia Games that produces board games and RPGs they can survive with direct sales
But the big difference is when you compare them, CG made the choice to go direct and has a set schedule of what they are working on. Once it is ready "subscribers" are notified to send
them money for the new release.

Palladium games ran a kick starter; got 1.4 million dollars and never completed it. Clearly the money was not all used on the project, but we will never know because Kevin will never
admit foul play.. That's how it survives on funds from the kickstarter they will never finish, If you go to a game store and ask for any Palladium game stuff.. RTT or Rifts, most don't
carry it because most shops go for magic cards, PoPs and comics that will actually sale.
RPGs has reduced in popularity and so has Robotech, but the fan base is still out there. Most knows about train wreck that is going on and steers clear of the once great PG.
I do know a few game store owners that are in towns hundreds of miles apart. Some new, some been open for decades. When asked about it, they don't know all the details of
of what is going on, only that no one is asking for their products.

Kevin was once a important part of gaming history, Now his legacy is a borderline bankrupt company that sues people at the drop of a hat. A Bloated decades old RPG game system
that they keep adding more rules to. And a kick starter game that was half done very poorly with no end in sight of completion .

I put my copy of RTT on ebay, and one guy that bid on it asked if he could have the wave 2 stuff when it ships. I giggled to myself, but said yeah if it happens. I don't even know what I'm owed, I just had a basic battle cry pledge with no extra add ons.

 Genoside07 wrote:
Kevin was once a important part of gaming history, Now his legacy is a borderline bankrupt company that sues people at the drop of a hat. A Bloated decade old RPG game system
that they keep adding more rules to. And a kick starter game that was half done very poorly with no end in sight of completion .

Since Kev is unable to be relevant again he looks back at the "glory years" for any and all vindication.

They had good ideas in the past, just the bloated execution was brutal.
I think I used my newfound knowledge of "Lotus 123" way back when to sort out some of the painful character creation (did better with Excel later on).
I stopped caring when "White Wolf" came along.

Well... it's end of business hours now. Meaning that as is likely, Scott's scrambling to have something to put up, because you'ld expect that if he had gotten the new base sculpts, or revised the Force Orgs, or pretty much had anything done at all, it'd be up already.

I'd be surprised if nothing goes up tonight, but I'd be shocked if there was any actual content on anything (even tangentially) that matters to backers.

Too early to talk of Chinese New Year? Probably better to say nothing at all about it just that the gosh darn digital artist is STILL indisposed so those bases aren't done yet (remember it's the FANS fault these are delayed as they made suggestions) and the force org chart was used as bog paper by Unca Kev (oops!) so they have to start all over as they only had the one physical copy.

So, the latest Update is up.

Force Orgs are still being worked on. Because that's a complicated task, that takes many months to do. And they're gotten a "lot" of good feedback. No mention of what that feedback is, or how many people a lot is. Because I've literally not seen it discussed anywhere. Granted, I'm not looking that hard, but if it's that difficult to find discussion on it, that's a problem in itself.

There's some updated resin bases. They don't look horrible, but they still have the issue of the 'tag' making them all likely to look the same. And I'm not a fan of the checkerplating on the smaller base. But they're serviceable.

Of course, that doesn't change the fact that these should have been a couple of hours of work, maximum, for anyone who makes a career in modelling. Not the literally 10 weeks it's taken to revise.

And as has already been screamed about in the comments, there's no mention of Wave 2 in any form. No mention of progress, no finalization of quotes, nothing.

Morgan Vening wrote:
And as has already been screamed about in the comments, there's no mention of Wave 2 in any form. No mention of progress, no finalization of quotes, nothing.

I would remark that this should not be a surprise, but not only would it be pedantic it is also redundant.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Really at this point I am giving serious consideration to mailing everything I received for this kickstarter back to Palladium as a thank you for ripping me off of money I spent to make what could have been a reality.

Forar wrote:

Forar about 1 hour ago

Cool, the bases are perfect. Incapable of being improved. Utterly the greatest contribution to both art and gaming that mankind hath wrought.

Heh!

Morgan Vening wrote:
So, the latest Update is up.

Force Orgs are still being worked on. Because that's a complicated task, that takes many months to do. And they're gotten a "lot" of good feedback. No mention of what that feedback is, or how many people a lot is. Because I've literally not seen it discussed anywhere. Granted, I'm not looking that hard, but if it's that difficult to find discussion on it, that's a problem in itself.

I would be shocked if Scott has received any actual feedback about the force org charts via email. The vast majority of any emails must be "where's the money, Scott?".

The force org charts and the resin bases are a smoke screen to try and cover the lack of actual progress towards Wave 2. It really looks like nothing has been done since Wave 1 shipped. These 12 or so updates have made it more and more clear that PB has no intent of actually finishing the kickstarter. Well, let me rephrase that -- I think the intent was there. Really. I just think they overspent on Wave 1, failed to properly estimate all the expenses and now do not have enough capital to pay for Wave 2 plus shipping. If they had to the money, why wouldn't they have finished it when it was cheaper to produce and ship?

Maybe one day we'll get an actual accounting of what happened...

Of course, that doesn't change the fact that these should have been a couple of hours of work, maximum, for anyone who makes a career in modelling. Not the literally 10 weeks it's taken to revise.

The 4 years, since these would have originally been done by Ninja Division.

 Alpharius wrote:

Forar wrote:

Forar about 1 hour ago

Cool, the bases are perfect. Incapable of being improved. Utterly the greatest contribution to both art and gaming that mankind hath wrought.

Heh!

My belief that we'll never actually see wave 2 remains firm, but I'm so tired of this one tiny facet of the project apparently eating an entire quarter of the year.

They're done. Just fething move onto something else for a change.

At least lie to me about something new every month or two.

 Forar wrote:
At least lie to me about something new every month or two.

Amen to that, sir! The same old stuff gets, well, old.

Exactly!

One full quarter on base renders, without anything meaningful on Wave 2 "quotes" or whatever?

Whatever indeed.

Scooter's just phoning it in at best now. I don't get the Unca Kev shuckster emails any more so Palladium pretty much runs radio silence. I'm guessing they're praying people buy their Xmas Grab Bags and not much else going on? No books, no relaunch of gRifts the board game? No updates about whether Casey has even retained the license since the kickstarter crash n' burn?

We're just about in December.

Too early for a wrap up of how PB did in terms of actually meeting their 'schedule' for the year?

It must kill Kevin -- I'm sure he wants to start up a new begging campaign, but if he does then he is admitting that they blew the money...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/27582445#27582445

This will not be Kickstarted. Our agreement does not allow for crowdsourcing.

Looks like HG soured on the whole kickstarter thing with licensing partners. Can't imagine why.

 Alpharius wrote:
We're just about in December.

Too early for a wrap up of how PB did in terms of actually meeting their 'schedule' for the year?

You mean the book schedule? Cause we know RRT produced jack drek.

He didn't do his usual "Here's what's getting released in 2017!" thing, like he's done previous years. I think he finally realized it just makes him look stupid when it's brought up how little they've done. But let's take a look anyway. I'll start in the last PBWU of last year, and use the first given release date for each item (rather than keeping track of the constant backtracking), and then the actual release date (if applicable). If an announcement isn't given, that's because it's at least a year old (or a Rifter) at that point, and I'm not going that far back.

Dec 29th, Rifter 76, due January. Released Feb 10th.
Jan 6th, Rifter 77, due February. Released March 9th.
Jan 6th, gRifts Board Game announced.
Jan 13th, Atlanteans, due March. Released August 9th.
Jan 13th, Sovietski, due Summer.
Jan 13th, Garden of the Gods, due March/April.
Jan 13th, Robotech Tactics, due 2017. "As far as we are concerned, releasing Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Wave II by the end of the year is a must!"
Jan 27th, HOH Arsenal, due February/March.
Jan 27th, Disavowed, due March/April.

Hmm... Turns out he did do a yearly itinerary. And it does make him look stupid. But I'll stick with what I'm doing. Waiting on a phone call, can't do much until then.

Feb 3rd, Dead Reign Inner City, due Spring.
Feb 3rd, "Others – We may try to slip in a few small books before summer."
Mar 2nd, gRifts Kickstarter due April/May.
Mar 2nd, Dead Reign Face of Death announced (looks like this is a rename of Inner City Survival, and I'll count it as the same)
Mar 22nd, Nightbane Dark Designs RAW, due March. Released before March 31st.
Mar 22nd, Dead Reign Face of Death, due Spring/Summer.
Mar 22nd, Nightbane Dark Designs, due Summer. Released August 31st.
Mar 31st, Rifter 78, due April/May. Released November 6th.
Jun 9th, Living Nowhere announced, due July.
Jun 16th, SCOTT GIBBONS HAS ARRIVED! HE'LL SAVE US!
Sep 8th, Rifter 79 announced.
Oct 20th, Rifter 79, due November.
Oct 20th, Rifts Bestiary 1+2 announced.
Oct 26th, Rifts Bestiary 1, due December. Because that's realistic based on past performance!
Oct 26th, Rifts Bestiary 2, due January 2018. As is this!

According to Google, in the northern hemisphere, Spring ended 20th June, Summer ended 22nd September.

So... the summary. Rifters in parentheses, because they should count separate.
9 (+4) books announced with release dates this year. One of those due December, so still not technically late.
2 (+3) books released so far this year.

And how did they do?
0 (+0) released on schedule. The exception being DD RAW, which was, but is not counted above, because it was a limited run 150 copy thingy (and as of Nov 9th PBWU, and today's webstore, is still in stock)
0 (+2) released less than a month late. Rifter 79 could also do this.
1 (+0) released a month late.
1 (+0) released six months late.
0 (+1) released seven months late.
1 (+0) not yet late.
0 (+1) less than a month late, so far.
3 (+0) between four and six months late, and counting.
3 (+0) more than six months late, and counting.

So, as per normal, promising of large volumes of books (note, there's 10+ books in the yearly Update promised in 2017 and 2018 that didn't make this list), and delivering on two, one rushed for GenCon, and another made before end of year. They also squeeze out 3-4 Rifters. This appears to be their maximum output, year after year, yet it doesn't change their optimistic unrealistic ambitions.

Also, side note, because it's good to keep track.
March 21st-29th, 30% off RRT. One week only.
April 27th-May 30th, 30% off RRT.
November 10th-12th, 50% off. One weekend only.
November 16th-19th, 50% off. One weekend only again!
November 27th-29th, 50% off. Core Box only. "take advantage of this sale by then, because after that, it's over."

They've still got a month to get stuff done, but I'm not expecting anything of note. They may get one more plus the Rifter done, but I'm not betting on it. Not with CGB season in full swing, and holiday times.

 n815e wrote:
It must kill Kevin -- I'm sure he wants to start up a new begging campaign, but if he does then he is admitting that they blew the money...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/27582445#27582445

This will not be Kickstarted. Our agreement does not allow for crowdsourcing.

Looks like HG soured on the whole kickstarter thing with licensing partners. Can't imagine why.

I wish the guy luck, but this is just too funny.

So lots of options...if deckbuilder goes well we would look at adding a masters and invid expansions if we have time and the success needed

Who sticks a eulogy for a friend's mother in the middle of a price list and signs it "Kevin Siembieda, Publisher, Writer, Artist, Friend"?
Who calls his best friend's sister "the daughter"?
It's... bizarre.

I do think he's got some mental instability going on there.

RRT already covered that particular excuse with Casey.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
RRT already covered that particular excuse with Casey.

I have always wondered what kind of scam they where running... I think Kevin was having him do something very dirty and he couldn't take it..

Good thing Scott showed up then.

A good lackey doesn't question orders!

 Genoside07 wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
RRT already covered that particular excuse with Casey.

I have always wondered what kind of scam they where running... I think Kevin was having him do something very dirty and he couldn't take it..

I believe that they thought gRifts was going to be huge and they would fund RRT with it, so Kevin was pressuring Carmen to get it up.
Carmen's own words show what kind of situation he felt he was in -- that he spent a lot on the license and development, that he came to realize that PB's mismanagement of RRT was going to kill his own game, that Kevin was forcing him to launch even though he wasn't ready and with no chance of success.
Kevin pushed Carmen into a corner.

Only to a point.

If the license was close to expiration, and Carmen just plain wasn't ready (based on the embarrassing gak show that was his KS campaign), then he was destined to a massive failure no matter what.

If Kevin was threatening him, or making him promises of assistance (to turn into a full takeover, I'm sure), or something like that, well that's a different story.

Carmen's first mistake was having terrible judgement in "friends". Nothing else was going to turn out well for him after that.

Odds are, the gRifts KS falling miserably is the best thing that could have happened to the guy. Now he just needs to hitch himself to a proper horse, rather than a three-legged senile donkey with delusions of grandeur and explosive diarrhea.

But every gamer geek wants to be famous with a major book with their name on it..
I am sure that is the first Kevin promise to every fan friend. We will put your name right after mine..

The sad thing is they just need to stop everything and look what they owe and not
work on anything until those are complete... but that would be using reason...

 Genoside07 wrote:
But every gamer geek wants to be famous with a major book with their name on it..
I am sure that is the first Kevin promise to every fan friend. We will put your name right after mine..

The sad thing is they just need to stop everything and look what they owe and not
work on anything until those are complete... but that would be using reason...

Yup. When I saw they added two bestiary books a couple weeks ago, with an expected release date of 2 and 3 months, my eyes rolled so hard that I got a good view of my optical nerves. Especially given Living Nowhere had a 2 month release window, and is now 5+ months late.

If Scott really was running things in a professional manner, there should be no work on anything else until RRT was well underway, and Sovietski, Garden, Arsenal, Disavowed, Face of Death and Living Nowhere was complete. Then Kevin could faf about with whatever he wanted. But clearing off the scheduled (most of those a year, if not more late) items before adding more, should be the first f'n thing done. Carving out exceptions for the POH, and convention season, and the CGB period, is one thing. Adding more books, at least the announcement of, should be a non-starter.

Kevin is now 61. At the actual rate of release, assuming nothing more gets added, and nothing gets further slowed, and his use of plurals in the yearly itinerary is accurate, there's at least 22 books on the docket. Given Kevin seems to need to personally involve himself in everything, that puts the current backlog finishing no earlier than the end of 2028, with Kevin being 72 years old. Not extending his workload.

Because he got one books off his extended schedule this year. Added and completed another one, and added three more. He's going BACKWARDS in his backlog.