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2018/02/28 20:50:54
Subject: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
I want to confirm what I believe is missing from my pledge.
One thing, if people actually do start exchanging refunds for wave one boxes, do you think in the next PBWU they will be saying RTT is boiling over, we so busy trying to get the product out of the warehouse to our grateful backers......guess not
2018/02/28 20:58:47
Subject: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
I don’t have access to the link to backer kit at the moment, but I did take a screenshot of what’s there for my records. I don’t know if PB can alter it at all, but I’m not taking a chance.
Not that I really expect I’ll see a refund of any sort, but just in case...
It never ends well
2018/02/28 21:04:36
Subject: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
I'm out about $150. So not that much. As a non-US backer, I don't have that much recourse. I could take up their offer and get 8 boxes of Destroids, but I don't really need 8 more Warhammers.
I don't really need that $150, so the temptation is to just not take up their offer and see it to the end. It's not about the refund -- the likelihood that PB would cough up is minuscule. It's more about not letting their behaviour go away unrewarded.
I can accept that there can be mismanagement and as such the money can run out, but they continued to bait us along. Some would say that they were trying to find funding, but 3 years is a long time. On top of that, the issue of license expiry is something that's well known in advance. That they chose this timing to announce this, one month before the license require them to destroy stock, smacks of an attempt to stave off refunds and use the licensing expiry as an excuse.
I hadn't examine their accounting fully, but apparently there are some irregularities. I'm not sure whether I want to since it's almost certain to be fairly crap.
Their offer of stock-for-refund also smacks of idiocy. I can understand the asking price for the minis and decals (because they still have use), but the game is dead and asking full backer prices for rules, tokens and basic box is just bad business sense. In totality, it feels that PB/ KS just wants to close the chapter and didn't even bother to think through the situation.
PB has treated the backers poorly; I don't really see why I should not see it to the bitter end.
2018/02/28 21:08:13
Subject: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
That's another VERY good point Lynx - PB knew they weren't going to deliver wave 2 a long time ago, and they knew the license was going to expire on (x) as well, and waited until the last minute in what appears to be a cynical attempt to get backers to accept wave 1 stuff in lieu of wave 2 stuff at frankly ridiculous conversion prices.
Especially as all of that stuff is about to get sold off at way, way lower prices than that...
My advice would be to request the cash refund that PB knows they now have to provide.
And to get your refund request in ASAP.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/28 21:09:06
2018/02/28 21:12:46
Subject: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
so I don't lose what I wrote earlier on the KS page...
Kevin,
You knew that the license would be expiring, it is actually written into the contract you signed in the first place, so waiting up to a month before the end of the license is a good way not to have to deal with the project anymore... that update would have been done a long time ago...
Scott Gibbons had nothing to do with it, he probably knew as well the project was doomed when he signed up for the job in late May 2017. He was bound to fail and he most likely quitted in December when he learned the extend of the failure…as why he didn't answer any emails, Facebook posts, Kickstarter comments himself if he's still working for PB?
Plastics and manufacturing
The reason why you signed up a partnership with ND is because of their knowledge of the whole process. It's not speculation, you spent 3 whole paragraphs above saying just that.
Do you really believe that the backers are going to buy the idea that ND didn't make sure that the STL files were compatible with the tooling process? As you say they run "8 or 9 successful Kickstarters. Plus, they had a hit game of their own, Super Dungeon Explore, as well as having been involved with the creation of other games."
The reason the previous STL files were not compatible seems to be more like the tooling process was changed for a cheaper one… and I'm not sure it was ND decision to do so as per Ninja John recent comment on the fact they delivered you a game that was 100% ready to go….
Dimensional Weight has been in practice since 2007….
A good business approach would have been to take that into consideration when you designed the box set….
You spent 600000$ just for manufacturing Wave 1 items while ND handed you a 600-900k$ completed project?
For 12 models…. I'm very skeptical of that.... you know what I can do 600K, I can fully run a biotech lab for a full year with 3 employees paid more than your project manager. I can make 10% minimum interest just by doing nothing. I can probably buy back PB as well...and you did 12 models....
The effort to make Wave Two
Here's where it's getting muddy…you misappropriated the funds by adding production from the KS funds for wholesale and retail before completing the promised rewards.
You decided that the game could make another million or two with 47k promotion budget….
You knew that by splitting the delivery into 2 waves you were multiplying the delivery cost by 2, the initial manufacturing cost by 2. You already did not have the money at that time and you were expecting to make enough money to cover the production of wave 2?
Did you really look at the miniature game industry seriously or not?
if you had decided not to over-produced starter boxes, changed the manufacturing method and not being an incompetent at business who hires Fan-Friends for jobs that do not have the required qualifications, most likely everything would have been produced by the end of 2015…
What we can offer - Wave One Rewards for Wave Two
Your company doesn't even have 120k$ in cash flow right now… it explains why most of your employees on LinkedIn have a second job listed as current job, it explains why your discounting everything on DriveThru.... you have to stock pile for lawyers' fees.
And now, you want us to help you clear your inventory before you have to give back the keys so you don't have to pay the movers and for the destruction of the unlicensed products. You know Harmony Gold won't hesitate one second to sue you if you sell one Robotech® items past the delay, that's what they have been doing since the 1980's…
If only you had bought a big house, an Aston Martin DB 9 in British Racing Green, build a helipad so you can go to work flying high....if only that, I might have enjoyed the update....
The project is not a failure, you are…
"My thanks and humble appreciation to everyone who supported Robotech® RPG Tactics."
yeah, right, go tell that to Carmen Bellaire and his family….
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/28 21:31:24
2018/02/28 21:33:08
Subject: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Alpharius wrote: That's another VERY good point Lynx - PB knew they weren't going to deliver wave 2 a long time ago, and they knew the license was going to expire on (x) as well, and waited until the last minute in what appears to be a cynical attempt to get backers to accept wave 1 stuff in lieu of wave 2 stuff at frankly ridiculous conversion prices.
Especially as all of that stuff is about to get sold off at way, way lower prices than that...
My advice would be to request the cash refund that PB knows they now have to provide.
And to get your refund request in ASAP.
Here are your messages.
You have 30 minutes to move your Wave 1 product.
You have 10 minutes.
Your Wave 1 product has been impounded.
Your Wave 1 product has been crushed into a cube.
You have 30 minutes to move your cube.
*phone rings*
Hello, backers community?
Is it about my cube?
Sorry, that Simpsons scene is the recurring thought when I see this being discussed.
2018/02/28 21:35:08
Subject: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Seems like I had $95 worth of extras I'll never see - peanuts compared to some, I realize, but pretty goddamn annoying all the same. Plus, of course, the "$31.76" worth of remaining miniatures from the Battlecry pledge.
Which, as everyone has noted, is an odd number for them to come to. I mean, a "Super Valkyrie Wing" was $35 by itself, and the equivalent was included in Battle Cry, along with a lot else. But clearly sketchy math has been a hallmark of this from the beginning.
I wish everyone luck with their refund requests, but I just want to see an end to this, and a bird in the hand...I'm going to request the convention exclusive models ($22 each! Hah!) and some Destroids. We'll see what happens.
2018/02/28 22:13:40
Subject: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
2018/02/28 22:27:16
Subject: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Alpharius wrote: That's another VERY good point Lynx - PB knew they weren't going to deliver wave 2 a long time ago, and they knew the license was going to expire on (x) as well, and waited until the last minute in what appears to be a cynical attempt to get backers to accept wave 1 stuff in lieu of wave 2 stuff at frankly ridiculous conversion prices.
Especially as all of that stuff is about to get sold off at way, way lower prices than that...
My advice would be to request the cash refund that PB knows they now have to provide.
And to get your refund request in ASAP.
Here are your messages.
You have 30 minutes to move your Wave 1 product.
You have 10 minutes.
Your Wave 1 product has been impounded.
Your Wave 1 product has been crushed into a cube.
You have 30 minutes to move your cube.
*phone rings*
Hello, backers community?
Is it about my cube?
Sorry, that Simpsons scene is the recurring thought when I see this being discussed.
I actually had this happen to me once. My brother borrowed my car to get back to Chicago and... I'm not really sure, but he apparently forgot about it since he doesn't normally drive. Anyway, I eventually got those letters and that was.... fun....
2018/02/28 22:33:22
Subject: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Alpharius wrote: That Dilbert mashup from a few posts back was perfect...
Yup, and there were a few others that popped up that were quite true and humorous (in that dark, sad sort of way) over the years before I recall you modadopting the Robotech thread. I saved links to a few of them.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/01 00:46:14
2018/03/01 00:45:22
Subject: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Alpharius wrote: That Dilbert mashup from a few posts back was perfect...
Yup, and there were a few others that popped up that were quite true and humorous (in that dark, sad sort of way) over the years before I recall you modadopting the Robotech thread.
He looks like a shifty businessman
I collect:
Grand alliance death (whole alliance)
Stormcast eternals
Slaves to Darkness - currently Nurgle but may expand to undivided.
2018/03/01 00:48:48
Subject: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
You take that back right now! He's a genre redefining visionary with 40 years of business acumen under his belt! You'll never get the chance to clean his toilet for free and/or manage his business with that attitude!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/01 00:49:14
2018/03/01 01:30:19
Subject: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
You take that back right now! He's a genre redefining visionary with 40 years of business acumen under his belt! You'll never get the chance to clean his toilet for free and/or manage his business with that attitude!
I thought you had to pay to clean the toilets.... like 55$
2018/03/01 01:45:02
Subject: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
You take that back right now! He's a genre redefining visionary with 40 years of business acumen under his belt! You'll never get the chance to clean his toilet for free and/or manage his business with that attitude!
I thought you had to pay to clean the toilets.... like 55$
I stand corrected. Indeed, you pay for the privilege.
2018/03/01 02:09:27
Subject: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
I can only think of one thing to say about Kevin Siembieda right now.
What a piece of work is Kevin Siembieda, How noble in reason, how infinite in faculty, In form and moving how express and admirable, In action how like an Angel, In apprehension how like a god,
Thank you Shakespeare, by way of Captain Picard, for giving me a way to express that. There really are no other words.
2018/03/01 04:25:42
Subject: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
I imagine they will. Presumably they won't have any RRT there, but it won't stop them from trying to sell RPG books regardless.
I mean, the booth is most likely paid for. They could skip it, and with the ire they seem to have generated I wouldn't rule it out entirely, but it'd also make sense to me for them to just ship the B-Team off with some pallets of books to kill a day or two and hope for some sales.
As has been noted in a few places, they get excited about selling a hundred decks of playing cards. The bar for them to consider a sales opportunity worthwhile is pretty low.
2018/03/01 05:11:46
Subject: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
I think they'll skip it. They no longer have any reason to pretend to be interested in going. They only went initially because they were shamed into it that first year for not supporting their biggest ever product. They may have even included conventions as "advertising" in their price breakdown even though they didn't bother trying to make a good impression by just painting their minis and making sure they weren't broken let alone actually coming out with new product or showing interest in demoing/supporting it. The fee for the con was taken from our money and is a sunk cost. Paying a few employees to go there and the subsequent meals/accomodation will now be coming out of their pockets if they were to go so I doubt it'll happen.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I wonder if them screwing over 5,000 paid customers simultaneously after misleading them for years as to the true financial state of the project will warrant a mention in this week's murmur....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/01 05:20:37
2018/03/01 05:31:26
Subject: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
-- $k 
-- 9k 
-- 6k 
-- 4k 
-- 
" - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
