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I went through and screen shotted every update in case they go down (ala Prodos' AVP schtick) last week before the big announcement back when the news about someone serving palladium written notice came out. I haven't done the more recent ones since the Crisis of RobotreacheryTM started.

I'm surprised they haven't tried their gen con forced vote tactic and claim that a non-reply for wave two replacements means you're satisfied with not getting wave 2 items and thus their end of the KS is fulfilled.

 warboss wrote:
I went through and screen shotted every update in case they go down (ala Prodos' AVP schtick) last week before the big announcement back when the news about someone serving palladium written notice came out. I haven't done the more recent ones since the Crisis of RobotreacheryTM started.

The KS page been saved a couple of times in the past to the "Wayback Machine" and i just saved it again, it doesnt matter if the page goes dark like AvP you can still access the page,comments and updates + update comments like norm

Robotechs Wayback page: https://web.archive.org/web/20180303200243/https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/description

just to show it works have a scroll around AvPs page.

AvPs Wayback Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20131130145155/http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/513277403/alien-vs-predator-the-miniatures-game

An article, although I find it EXTREMELY lacking.

https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2018/3/2/17071612/robotech-rpg-tactics-kickstarter-disaster-palladium-books

 warboss wrote:
I went through and screen shotted every update in case they go down (ala Prodos' AVP schtick) last week before the big announcement back when the news about someone serving palladium written notice came out. I haven't done the more recent ones since the Crisis of RobotreacheryTM started.

Oooh - that's a good one!

Let's go with that one...

Remember backers, the TOS does entitle you to a refund from the creator of the KS, not from Kickstarter itself. Feel free to complete a chargeback if you can.

My response to ALL of this is still....

HAHAHAHAHA

 jaymz wrote:
My response to ALL of this is still....

HAHAHAHAHA

Yeah I agree...but at the same time I don't want to revel in the misery of backers :/ that could happen to us some day.

 jaymz wrote:
My response to ALL of this is still....

HAHAHAHAHA

At this point, you're kind of coming off like a Rick (and something else that rhymes with it) frankly by revelling in it again. Yes, pretty much all of us who have generated hundreds to thousands of comments (mostly critical) over the past 4 years saw this coming. That doesn't mean it's actually funny. Gullible or not, there are people who have only peripherally followed this with a laize faire attitude who are only now finding out that their hard earned money was wasted.

BTW, while I know Prodos got away with taking down their KS through a bit of trickery, PB *should* not be able to get the RRT kickstarter down in March.

As part of the TOS, the rights for the images & content of the KS page was given to KS itself; in essence, even if PB loses the licenses to continue the kickstarter, the images, comments and the KS page itself copyrights belong to KS "for marketing and display" purposes. Someone with a link to the old KS TOS can probably point out the relevant lines.

If PB does try to get the KS page taken down, I think that will put them into further legal hot water. And it could make KS culpable for collusion in attempting to conceal a "crime" - though I'm not a legal person in this by any means.

A - you guys can look at me anyway you want as frankly I don't care

B - if they put money into something then don't follow it that's their problem not mine since this gak show has been burning in this manner for years

C - you're damn right I'm revelling in this. You have any idea how much gak was thrown at me since washed my hands of this disaster? Years of it now. This is vindication for the vilification I endured. So screw those who only now feel they've gotten screwed over by this utterly incompetent boob and his "company" and use the term company VERY loosely.

 jaymz wrote:
you're damn right I'm revelling in this. You have any idea how much gak was thrown at me since washed my hands of this disaster? Years of it now. This is vindication for the vilification I endured. So screw those who only now feel they've gotten screwed over by this utterly incompetent boob and his "company" and use the term company VERY loosely.

How much of that "vilification" did you endure here? Do you really think that in this 400 page thread of complaints (the second one btw) added to by dozens of posters that you and you alone are the only one who was "vilified" for foretelling gloom and doom?

 jaymz wrote:
A - you guys can look at me anyway you want as frankly I don't care

B - if they put money into something then don't follow it that's their problem not mine since this gak show has been burning in this manner for years

C - you're damn right I'm revelling in this. You have any idea how much gak was thrown at me since washed my hands of this disaster? Years of it now. This is vindication for the vilification I endured. So screw those who only now feel they've gotten screwed over by this utterly incompetent boob and his "company" and use the term company VERY loosely.

WTF are you talking about? And if you really had washed your hands of this disaster, you wouldn't be posting back here like a small child saying "I told you so!"

What vilification did you face? I don't even remember reading anything by you one way or another about this entire topic. I'm pretty sure whatever point or statement you were trying to make was lost or drown out by all the other posters in this thread. The only person around here that remembers vilifying you is... you. Coming back into this thread to point that out... OK small child. You have made your point. Why don't you go play somewhere else now?

Reveling in the pain of others, no matter how much pain they inflicted on you, is small and petty. Be better then that!

 Tamwulf wrote:

 jaymz wrote:
A - you guys can look at me anyway you want as frankly I don't care
B - if they put money into something then don't follow it that's their problem not mine since this gak show has been burning in this manner for years
C - you're damn right I'm revelling in this. You have any idea how much gak was thrown at me since washed my hands of this disaster? Years of it now. This is vindication for the vilification I endured. So screw those who only now feel they've gotten screwed over by this utterly incompetent boob and his "company" and use the term company VERY loosely.

WTF are you talking about? And if you really had washed your hands of this disaster, you wouldn't be posting back here like a small child saying "I told you so!"
What vilification did you face? I don't even remember reading anything by you one way or another about this entire topic. I'm pretty sure whatever point or statement you were trying to make was lost or drown out by all the other posters in this thread. The only person around here that remembers vilifying you is... you. Coming back into this thread to point that out... OK small child. You have made your point. Why don't you go play somewhere else now?
Reveling in the pain of others, no matter how much pain they inflicted on you, is small and petty. Be better then that!

Tamwulf wrote that very well.
I have to agree the vindication and gloating seems... misdirected.
By all means, feel free to steer that towards Palladium Books.
I am unsure what advice that was given resulted in pushback in jaymz's direction.
People just wanted their stuff or their money.
I do not think jaymz cornered the market on thinking PB was not going to finish this project... it seemed rather obvious if not initially, as the years dragged on.

Gloating over other's misfortune, especially when undeserved, is just bad behavior.
I think I would prefer the feedback from the few remaining "White Knights" than this kind of thing, at least it has some comic relief value.

I mean, if someone here gave Jaymz particular grief, sure, that's worthy of some ire and mockery, but I think we've been fairly Palladium Defender(tm) free, and even those who have gone above and beyond the call of duty to provide PB benefit of the doubt here have been fairly quiet (if not silent) for ages now.

I don't doubt you (Jaymz) got some flack, between the Wiki and forums and whatever else you were involved in. But why bother dropping snark bombs here about it? We were there too, and while there is a measure of closure with PB admitting defeat and being beset by legions of pissed off backers and credit card refund charges, that doesn't change the hundreds of dollars lost by many of us (if not substantially more), nor the hundreds of hours (and that's probably a low estimate) spent keeping their feet to the fire, calling out their bullgak, and even just venting here with likeminded folks. It's a bittersweet victory, even with a product I was unhappy with, I just wanted them to finish it so I could sell the rest off and wash my hands of it.

If this brings Palladium down, I'll consider that to be a cherry on top of this gak sundae, but in terms of resources spent trying to make them just do the things they said they'd do for years, it's still a somewhat hollow victory.

I don't say it lightly that the camaraderie found here and elsewhere has made the frustration vastly more bearable, so in a 80's After School Special, the real value was found in the friends we made along the way ( :-D ), but it won't stop from being a shame to watch an IP we all cherish continue to languish (not that HG is helping that any), or reduce the missed opportunities that were present. PB's mismanagement, their inability to see the forest for the trees, their focus on idiotic minutia while the macro scale elements fell apart, it rests on them. If the PB forums or Jaymz's forums or whatever provided ire and frustration, yeah, that sucks.

But let's remember that this isn't the PB forums. It's moderated by fair minded benevolent overlords folks who aren't just looking to sweep uncomfortable truths under the rug. So, yeah, go have a laugh on the Megaversal Forums, as I see you (Jaymz) have, but here? Really? I think we've striven for a higher level of discourse, and it seems misplaced to include this thread's generally genial participants under that line of fire.

Edit: to clarify, the original post that kicked this all off (HAHAHAHA etc), fine, whatever. Its the reaction following it I find weirdest. Citing mistreatment seems questionable, as very few who'd behave that way have managed to stick around for long here. Yes, you have said for ages 'PB is out of money/won't complete/etc', but... so have many of us. And many of us were there taking lumps from the white knights and defenders and fan friends in comments across the interwebs. We need not have an accounting of who suffered more, you certainly tried your hardest to make it work with the resources you had, nobody doubts you got some gak. But we're here with you, also tired of the muck flinging, lies, and shenanigans that have haunted this campaign for years.

Jaymz , I seem to remember that you were the one years back who passed on the insider comment that the money had all gone and wave 2 was not happenning, but I do not remember people coming after you with pitchforks. Sre at times there are little spats as people argue over speculation or a daft idea, but in the main it is part and parcel of the thread.

At the end of the day the target for abuse has always been Palladium.

This thread, the KS comments section and even the Palladium forums have been a place to vent my dismay and anger at palladium and their incompetance but it has also been being part of a community who will never ever meet face to face but share a common like for an old cartoon seriesand had hoped to play with some toys ased on it

I wonder if Kevin plans to retire and sell off PB or declare bankruptcy after this, because he knows he has sank his company with this.

WTF Jaymz? I think we've been pretty consistently recognizing that it's PB as the problem ever since the first sign of slippage. For you to act like this? Uncool.

>complains about villification
>acts like a villain

Have any of Kevin's moderator apologists stopped by to say, "you don't understaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand"?

Here? No, I wouldn't say so.

In the comments or elsewhere? Eh. I'd say the closest I've seen to 'support' at this point are a few people who have claimed themselves content with what they received in wave one, or incredibly generously understanding of the alleged troubles that led to this situation.

Actual full throated defenders have been somewhat rarer. A few voices like Bad_Syntax seem to be mostly stirring up trouble for the sake of trolling angry backers more than actual defense of the project/company in question.

But there's enough gak being flung about, that's not an exhaustive list, and I've certainly skipped some comments here and there, as it has been a busy week.

SO I have $90 in credit, is it worth the energy to gamble I might get something?

If you are willing to spend money to ship it to India, sure, Kev will send you stuff. But that's a lot of good money to throw after bad. I'd push chargeback and refund first.

I'm going back to the States this summer so shipping is not an issue.

I'd be tempted to let it go, the money is long forgotten anyway but I like the idea of inconveniencing them however slightly.

Besides I did buy into this because I wanted to have some destroids...

So yeah, 3 boxes of destroids and a convention Valkyrie.

I'd be curious to know

A) How many took the the deal

B) How many they actually get shipped out before the window they can sell/trade is gone.

I'm pretty sure B > A ...

 Stormonu wrote:
I'd be curious to know

A) How many took the the deal

B) How many they actually get shipped out before the window they can sell/trade is gone.

I'm pretty sure B > A ...

I don't know about the others, but I plan to hold out to see if Kickstarter will force them to give us refunds.
If they don't that means the door is open for other creators to not follow their terms of service without no recourse.

 Genoside07 wrote:


I don't know about the others, but I plan to hold out to see if Kickstarter will force them to give us refunds.
If they don't that means the door is open for other creators to not follow their terms of service without no recourse.

Zero chance of Kickstarter doing anything like even making a specific statement let alone forcing them to do anything. About the only thing that may "force" Palladium to do anything is if more and more people are successful in getting their claims accepted with various credit card companies and paypal.

I was initially thinking I might as well take the deal.
Then I thought what the odds would be that I actually RECEIVE anything?
It could be another fun round of "working on it" or even better, "we ran out of stock" or any of their other excuses.
It would be a "fun" situation to be in to be owed "credit" for RRT but the IP is expired so... you get nothing!

Putting anything within their control is a sucker's game.

 Genoside07 wrote:


I don't know about the others, but I plan to hold out to see if Kickstarter will force them to give us refunds.
If they don't that means the door is open for other creators to not follow their terms of service without no recourse.

Kickstarter won't do anything. They didn't do anything when the projects were obvious scams like the Doom that Came to Atlantic City game, where the government prosecuted that guy and KS still had "project we love" displayed on it.

Palladium will probably be working on it, not send anything, but still try to hold people to the contract they are including with each trade that the contract is settled.