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Morgan Vening wrote:

 Original Timmy wrote:

Skaorn wrote:
Having read the Soda Pop thread in News and Rumors, I'm not sure that PB is entirely at fault (they're still very much at fault, don't get me wrong). I'm glad I didn't invest in RRT because of what I knew about Kevin S and was unsurprised it failed. Reading about Soda Pop/Ninja Division was surprising how they mismanage their KSs. I had been assuming that the fault of RRT was PB but now I wonder how much of it really was.

I think ND/$PM ship started to go down after their Ninja All-Stars game, that campaign was pretty flawless but all the others after turned into a gak show @2016/17 way after Robotech campaign was run

Don't want to take this too far off topic, but other than some minor delays (at least in Kickstarter relative terms), both Rail Raiders and Way of the Fighter (miniatures option on the latter notwithstanding) finished satisfactorily from a production perspective.

I'm yet to play either, and only played a single game of Ninja All-Stars, but that's three successful projects. Their SDE issues seem to be pretty excessive though.

Yeah production wise they were a success but very late in RRI case, but they soured the backers quite bad on RRI after changing a couple of SG post KS so we didnt get them(extra fancy box for KS extras & card sleeves which got replaced with a set of inferior produced cards)and especially if you was from outside the USA in ROW/EU as we had to wait 6+ months after the US KS & retail fulfilment and was told over 16 times our games had left the warehouse and was on way to the dock or was at the dock and yes Super Dungeon Explore is a whole mess and looks like its going to drag on!

So....I got tired of the defenders on the palladium forums....here was my response

Palladium owes refunds. No it is not an investment. It was money to be returned in product. The ToS this project was created and run under is very explicit in stating the company owes refunds. NOT product in kind. NOT "oops my bad sorry guys but Kickstarter is a risk". Refunds. The project was to create the game nothing more. NOT retail . CREATION.

John Cadice of ND publicly stated ND had ALL models done as well as factory time set aside and the plan was changed by someone else.

Kevin publicly admitted to using backer money to fund retail stock (which was NOT part of the campaign) to fund wave two which oddly enough had he NOT done that he MAY have had funds to at least get some of wave two done.

Kevin admitted to LYING for THREE YEARS about having the money to finish this project (which is oddly the same amount of time that ND was no longer involved) when they did not (I myself tried to warn people THEN about it as I had found out but was told there was no way I could know)

PB and crew may want us to believe how hard they worked on this but I know first hand how UNinvolved and UNinterested they were in the further development, support and evolution of this game leaving to people like me, Mike Arnold, and Peter Pidrak to do all the work in that regard NOT them.

WE got the FAQ done. WE did the revised official Blast Rule. WE put them in touch with GHQ and got the ball rolling and finished on conventional unit rules. WE pushed to get the wave two cards as well as paper minis done. ALL of which was only completed because we essentially had to harass Wayne and others at PB to GET IT DONE. (side note, Wayne STILL has the completed conventional forces rules in the format he wanted, which was ready to be released to the public since July 2015)

HG gave them a zero dollar renewal as well as putting them in touch with people who could have helped significantly with getting things done. THEY obviously did not take advantage of that. (This is per a HG rep at a recent convention when asked about PB, RRT, and the license)

For someone and a company that claimed to be working SO hard on RRT they did very little ACTUAL work. So spare me the excuses and blame shifting. This is ON KEVIN, and very little is on anyone else.

here is the thread in full

http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=155417

I bet that thread gets deleted from the Negaverse

Pardon my language but

fething fethwit

http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=155417&p=2992855#p2992855

Even with everything that has been revealed, said, and done by Palladium in regards to Robotech, there are still people willing to defend them and try to blame someone else. I just can't get over how much people still lay the blame on ND, when they did everything they were contracted to do. They handed over a complete game, models, digital files, contacts and a factory in China for production. Then they walked away. How is anything that followed their fault? PB didn't renegotiate or offer a new contract. As a matter of fact, they actually started to distance themselves from PB when Kevin started blaming them for problems and issues. I just... why didn't Kevin just as for more help? Or offer ND a new contract? Anything besides blame everyone else for everything?

This could have been a fantastic game. It could have been the game that saved PG. Instead, its going to be the stake that is driven straight through PB's heart.

...because everyone should do work for free for Palladium Books(c)(r)(tm), for the Greater Glory of Kevin Siembieda(c)(r)(tm).

Well Palladium missed their weekly update on Friday. Doesn't say much because they will only do what they want .. not what is needed.

Out of the 5000 backers.. how many you guys think took the trade in ?? 80/20 rule for me.. maybe 20%

I'm sure a few were thinking this was the only way they where going to get anything out of the deal..

There was a poll on the Robotech FB group and about 40-50% of people indicated they'd taken the exchange offer. Somewhere around 250 people replied so it may not be the most accurate projection, but it's something. Dealing with PB is like trying to choke back down vomit but even as bad as getting more wave one crap stinks it's a bit better than getting nothing for the money they put in.

It does make me wonder, if RRT had actually been released as it was supposed to, if Kevin S would have been forced to release a revised edition at some point or if he would cling to "it was perfect the first time" like he does with the Palladium system.

 stanman wrote:
There was a poll on the Robotech FB group and about 40-50% of people indicated they'd taken the exchange offer. Somewhere around 250 people replied so it may not be the most accurate projection, but it's something. Dealing with PB is like trying to choke back down vomit but even as bad as getting more wave one crap stinks it's a bit better than getting nothing for the money they put in.

Yeah, I'd be wary of putting any kind of meaning to an "opt in" poll, especially one that seems to be self-reinforcing.

You need to be a fan of RRT enough to sign up to a FB page, which indicates either a higher tendency to be favorable to PB/RRT (or at least to getting something in hand), or unfavorable (lets be honest, some people comment for spite and mockery *raises hands*).

The one thing we know, is that the vast majority of backers rarely, if ever, comment publicly. I'd put that number at 80%+. Hell, in the most public debate in the entire campaign (sales at GenCon), IIRC, they barely got a 25% response rate. The scale debate had substantially less. And we simply don't know if those people are engaged, or apathetic. I can see a percentage of backers having written off any and all losses completely, and a good portion of international backers going "Feth that!" when they saw expected shipping costs.

So until we have definitive numbers (and no, I'm not going to accept PB's word on how many, without actual evidence), take up of the offer could be anywhere from 1-80%. That's how much variance I'd assign this clusterfeth. Don't get me wrong, I think it's definitely on the smaller side, and I'd bet Genoside's 20% is close to the mark. But there's just too many unknown variables, and the only real source of information is a known bad faith actor and unreliable narrator.

I picked up my boxes of RT stuff from the shelf this weekend, blew the dust off; and then decided to work on something else instead.

 Easy E wrote:
I picked up my boxes of RT stuff from the shelf this weekend, blew the dust off; and then decided to work on something else instead.

I’ve actually done that several times now - Some time back, I put tem together when I first got them and primed the UEDF mechs, even painted a few, then boxed up the whole thing. Pulled ‘em down a couple times to finish painting, ...and decided against it and painted something else instead.

..And they want me to trade in for more?

Well, wonderful trade-in is over.
They really are going to use this as an excuse of doing their best to make good with their backers?

I want to know who the three people are that dropped $3500 for the kickstarter... I cannot even imagine what kind of anger would be there.

As to Jamz and white knights: I am sure a few of the usual suspects may have multiple accounts.
People would need regular face-time to "drink the kool-aid" (funny how that direct reference was a means of dying within a certain cult... but I digress).

What I am particularly unhappy about is we funded Palladium Book's continued existence if discovery cannot be applied to them and the channeling of funds inappropriately is not found.
Because when they think this whole thing is said and done the money WILL be used for vacations and "discretionary" items since the Kickstarter has ended... RIGHT?

All I can do now is hope the IRS checks them out due to spending more than their supposed income or some other stupid thing I am sure they will do.

There won’t be any vacations or whatnot because this money was gone two years ago. I doubt they will survive much longer, they’ve already been bleeding out on funds, the corpse just hasn’t stopped twitching yet.

Still haven’t got my trade-out of this clusterfeth. They have apparently pulled the product, but are just stting on it to do “when they feel like it”. I doubt I’m the only one that’s in this position.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, wonder what they will do with those resin SDF-1’s they hade made up to show us they were “totally working on RRT”? My guess is they were “donated” to a (close) fan friend that was owed product...

 Stormonu wrote:
There won’t be any vacations or whatnot because this money was gone two years ago. I doubt they will survive much longer, they’ve already been bleeding out on funds, the corpse just hasn’t stopped twitching yet.

Still haven’t got my trade-out of this clusterfeth. They have apparently pulled the product, but are just stting on it to do “when they feel like it”. I doubt I’m the only one that’s in this position.

Have you paid shipping? Cause apparently if it's not paid for by Friday, you're done, according to the latest Update.

And you're assuming all the money has been spent. I don't doubt that there isn't sufficient funds to complete Wave 2, but we only have the word of an unreliable narrator that the funds are completely drained, or haven't been shifted into PB's general accounts. And until I see a proper accounting of the books, I'm never going to believe Kevin when it comes to the financials of this clusterfeth.

It would not shock me at all, to find out that the combination of remaining Kickstarter funds and money earned in the firesale are in the high five figures, if not the low six figures. And that'd be enough to keep KevCo solvent (along with their other income streams) for a couple more years. Kevin is a charlatan, and I'd bet good money if there's funds remaining, he feels Palladium deserves it for all the hard work they did on this project.

So much in agreement.
This guy has admitted lying to us for years. We are supposed to believe him now?
His pie chart and shifting numbers don't add up.
We have been given nothing in terms of proof.

 Stormonu wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
I picked up my boxes of RT stuff from the shelf this weekend, blew the dust off; and then decided to work on something else instead.

I’ve actually done that several times now - Some time back, I put tem together when I first got them and primed the UEDF mechs, even painted a few, then boxed up the whole thing. Pulled ‘em down a couple times to finish painting, ...and decided against it and painted something else instead.

..And they want me to trade in for more?

I don't need 8 more copies of the game to pile on the 6 I already have.

On a lighter note, I'm not sure which I'm more happy to see: that John Cadice is a member of the legal action group or that he's reviewing his PB contracts to see how he can help.

Morgan Vening wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
There won’t be any vacations or whatnot because this money was gone two years ago. I doubt they will survive much longer, they’ve already been bleeding out on funds, the corpse just hasn’t stopped twitching yet.

Still haven’t got my trade-out of this clusterfeth. They have apparently pulled the product, but are just stting on it to do “when they feel like it”. I doubt I’m the only one that’s in this position.

Have you paid shipping? Cause apparently if it's not paid for by Friday, you're done, according to the latest Update.

And you're assuming all the money has been spent. I don't doubt that there isn't sufficient funds to complete Wave 2, but we only have the word of an unreliable narrator that the funds are completely drained, or haven't been shifted into PB's general accounts. And until I see a proper accounting of the books, I'm never going to believe Kevin when it comes to the financials of this clusterfeth.

It would not shock me at all, to find out that the combination of remaining Kickstarter funds and money earned in the firesale are in the high five figures, if not the low six figures. And that'd be enough to keep KevCo solvent (along with their other income streams) for a couple more years. Kevin is a charlatan, and I'd bet good money if there's funds remaining, he feels Palladium deserves it for all the hard work they did on this project.

I’d have to get a shipping quote from them first. No way in hell am I giving them a blank check for this crap.

Kevin is definately unreliable, but with the napkin math I’ve done in the past, I’d be suprised if they have enough money to make it through next year - prior to this fire sale. They’ll be out of business soon enough, within 5 years if they don’t pull another miracle out of their butts.

They've limped along this far, unless someone actually does something to drain their coffers, I have doubts they'll go under naturally anytime soon.

It's amazing what you can maintain through the generosity of a select group of fan friends (I'm explicitly talking about the types who order a dozen grab bags a year and get sincerely excited for CS branded pencils or Rifts tumblers/poker decks, not 'I buy a few Rifters a year' casual buyers).

Kevin potentially needing to retire (and several of the other members on the team not being spring chickens themselves) might have more of an impact than anything unless the legal ball really gets rolling.

But if it's Tsunami 2.0 (tempest in a teapot indeed), I'd hedge the bet on a five year timeline being more about getting on in the years than anything financial, at least for that reason.

I have to agree with Forar, PB survived the "Crisis of Treachery!!!" tm mostly by begging at fans. I think the only way PB might go down is if someone drives a wooden stake through his heart. I doubt he'd even do something sensible like turning the company over to someone else and retiring in the face of this debacle to try to save some face for PB.

I agree with Forar and Skaorn, that if the lawsuit fizzles out, Palladium will be able to limp on another three years. At which point, Kevin (who turned 62 last week), is eligible for full retirement benefits. Two other staff (Alex and Julius) are contemporaries of Kevin, so that'd be three of seven, and anecdotes have shown Kevin's not really one to give a crap about people other than himself, except in how they can best serve him.

When looking up the profiles to remind myself of which staff were in Kevin's age bracket, I saw the profile for Scott. In the first paragraph of his story, there's an allusion to the toilet scrubbing that brought Scott to Kevin's attention. I just find it funny that that's the point that apparently cemented Scott in Kevin's consciousness.

I do disagree with Skaorn that Kevin will retire to save face. I think he will absolutely farm it off to someone else, either on retirement, or if the lawsuit picks up steam. Probably Wayne, who seems stupid enough to accept. That way, Kevin gets to ride off into the sunset, and it'll be someone else who ruined his legacy. As we've seen from Kevin's writing these past five years, yes he loves to play the martyr, but he definitely thinks he's a master of PR spin, when in fact most of what he says is patently transparent. This way he gets to do both.

 Forar wrote:
So, funny that, most didn't bow and scrape before you. Welcome to Dakkadakka.

I have to admit that after all this time, I am still laughing over this.

Anyways, so I have tabulated all the results from my poll from eons ago, and are providing the rather interesting results to you. I know you are all very excited.

- 80% said that they would welcome Palladium Books going out of business
- 44% said that they would still like their kickstarter items
- 43% said that they would still like their kickstarter items, but only to sell on eBay.
- 9% said they didn't care either way at this point
- 34% said Macross was superior to Robotech
- 3% said purple was their favorite color
- 17% said they were fans of the Robotech RPG, but only of the New Generation
- 27% said Roy Fokker was the greatest character of all time. Santa Claus came in at 22%.
- 10% thought it was odd that while the Invid could only track protoculture, Lance felt it was still necessary to dress and sing like a woman.
- Only 13% thought that the Robotech Masters was the worst cartoon of all time. I would have thought that would have been higher. . .
- 11% said they thought Scott at Palladium Books was really their friend
- 5% wonder if Scott at Palladium Books really even exits at all.
- 99% of those who are married report that their wives are disappointed they still like Robotech
- 25% eagerly await Robotech RPG Tactics 2nd edition, also by Alessio Cavatore

I'm still confused, so I guess nothing much has changed.

You're welcome for the laughs, I'll be here all week, try the steak and be sure to tip your waitress.

...And only 1% would willingingly play RRT unless threatened with waterboarding.

On another note, I don’t think I’m going to get my “refund in kind”, probably because I no longer have a KS account and I’ll bet they keep sending the shipping invoice to that...

Too much credit...

Skaorn wrote:
I have to agree with Forar, PB survived the "Crisis of Treachery!!!" tm mostly by begging at fans. I think the only way PB might go down is if someone drives a wooden stake through his heart. I doubt he'd even do something sensible like turning the company over to someone else and retiring in the face of this debacle to try to save some face for PB.

According to Kevin it was the fans who begged him to take their money.

Good God, if you want to see just how narsstic Kevin is, read the company profile page.

http://www.palladiumbooks.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=516&Itemid=182

Be sure to thoroughly rinse off the BS before leaving the page - may need to santize the computer as well.

On a completely different note, finally got my postage e-mail and paid it. $22.79 is not only an odd number, it seems excessive for a core box & 4 add-on boxes. Oh well, at least I’ll be out of this nightmare.

 Stormonu wrote:
On a completely different note, finally got my postage e-mail and paid it. $22.79 is not only an odd number, it seems excessive for a core box & 4 add-on boxes. Oh well, at least I’ll be out of this nightmare.

You may want to check the postage mark when you get your package. It's quite possible that if the postage cost listed on the package is less than the amount charged, then their statement that you forfeit your claim is itself void. Because while I don't want to wade back through the last sixteen (!) Updates, I think they said they'd charge only for actual shipping. At the very least, you'ld be well within your rights to issue a PayPal dispute, even if it's only for pennies.

Why do something so petty? Because feth Kevin, that's why.

Interesting that the Rifts CCG and nGage game are mentioned in the profile, but RRT isn't. You'd think that someone wants everyone to forget that it ever existed.

Stormonu 651554 9969594
4023a2b51c7eea242bf5cf5f1cb54697.jpg wrote:Good God, if you want to see just how narsstic Kevin is, read the company profile page.

http://www.palladiumbooks.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=516&Itemid=182

Be sure to thoroughly rinse off the BS before leaving the page - may need to santize the computer as well.

On a completely different note, finally got my postage e-mail and paid it. $22.79 is not only an odd number, it seems excessive for a core box & 4 add-on boxes. Oh well, at least I’ll be out of this nightmare.

That page hasn't been updated in a while - which goes to show us all something else too...