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 Kilkrazy wrote:
Is the second Kickstarter of MMX relevant to MEdge?

Well, you asked for KS which had 4 factions, which opened the door to discussing other games.

Cincy indicated that the 2nd KS made less, and offered the theory that the game was failing as a reason why. I countered with the limited scope of the 2nd KS as one reason for its lower take. But also that the distribution (or lack thereof) has limited the game's growth. So ideally for you guys, MEDGE will get into the usual online shops to actually take advantage of its HIPS production advantages.

If that doesn't satisfy you, delete my comment I guess.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Valid points, but maybe WWE failed because the whole steampunk wild west genre, doesn't inspire anymore. God knows we've had a few games like that over the years, Deadlands being a prime example. .

I would suspect a combination of very niche setting, price and weird choice of scale that's not really compatible with anything else.

 cincydooley wrote:
It's a rules system based on a 15-20 year old rules system (Epic 40k) ...

So far as I'm aware (and admittedly I'm not overly familiar with Epic) the only similarity between the two is the suppression tokens. MEdge isn't 'based' on Epic at all.

Bossk_Hogg wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Is the second Kickstarter of MMX relevant to MEdge?

Well, you asked for KS which had 4 factions, which opened the door to discussing other games.

Cincy indicated that the 2nd KS made less, and offered the theory that the game was failing as a reason why. I countered with the limited scope of the 2nd KS as one reason for its lower take. But also that the distribution (or lack thereof) has limited the game's growth. So ideally for you guys, MEDGE will get into the usual online shops to actually take advantage of its HIPS production advantages.

If that doesn't satisfy you, delete my comment I guess.

So long as the examples given are used in a way that is relevant to the topic of the thread. I think the MMX second Kickstarter probably is getting outside that boundary, but I'm not going to make a big point of it.

 insaniak wrote:

So far as I'm aware (and admittedly I'm not overly familiar with Epic) the only similarity between the two is the suppression tokens. MEdge isn't 'based' on Epic at all.

As far as I am aware myself the rules, which I have read only once, are not the same as epic 40k rules, the suppression fire/ blast markers look the same.

I compared the minis to my staple cheap grunt, the old Defiance Games UAMC marines. I figured they'd have better details than those. After that, I can change the guns, I know I will be using my stash of Paulson guns on the hunters and scarecrows. The minis are a good starting point, and that's all I look for. But then again, I'm in a DINK couple, and my wife often does accounting or artwork until late in the night.

YouKnowsIt wrote:
Really fascinating posts on the first page of this thread.

As a backer all I can say is that from my perspective it was a great Kickstarter, it was just a bit frustrating reading through the News and Rumours thread here when looking for new information because time and again it was the same small number of people repeating the same criticisms ad nauseum. Having to trawl through the same old, "But I don't like it, so I'm going to repost my dislikes over and over and over again" to get to the latest news became a bit of a downer and frankly stopped me posting in the thread at all.

People with different opinions than your own, annoying right

I thought i was helping by critiquing the flaws (perceived by me) in the designs, but after reading the responses, i stopped giving my opinions on it.
I hope that if they plan to do another kickstarter with other factions they learn from the huge amount of information on this kickstarter (and others).

To me, the main reason I didn't participate was being burned (or having near misses) by too many recent Kickstarters.
3 out of 3 of the last projects I've backed were/are significantly late, and 4 more that I was seriously considering backing are ranging from late to game-destroying failures (looking at DUST). Combine that with the number of games I play once a year, and the half-dozen kickstarters I've barely even unboxed... I just decided that if MEdge turns out any good, I'll get it at retail.

It didn't help that I found their take on near-future-scifi light infantry uninspiring.

I'm completely lost... wasn't the project funded? Are we talking money grab or getting started? I don't get it...

 Byte wrote:
I'm completely lost... wasn't the project funded? Are we talking money grab or getting started? I don't get it...

The project was funded, but only made a small amount and had few backers compared to other skirmish kickstarters. It was just a very modest kickstarter, and a few contend that it could have made much, much more had SAS done a few things differently.

I should add, there are some fans who didn't want this to be a modest kickstarter, they wanted "their" website's new game to blow everything else out of the water and gain a higher profile. How it turned out was a bit disappointing to them.

I know I have three or four new people on my ignore list from seeing Maelstrom's Edge arguments, because I got sick of both sides of the arguments. Someone posts pictures of the plastic ("real" plastic, not restic) models they're going to start producing next month, you're about a year too late to provide constructive criticism of those models, and I didn't see anything that looked like productive requests or suggestions about what to do in the future.

Personally, I backed at the $90 level. Not higher, because I liked enough of the stuff in the box that I figured it was worth a shot, but I didn't like everything enough to want twice the boxes yet. And not higher than that because the models I already know I want more of (like the robots and the Angel) because of the no add ons policy. Robots, aliens, a card game, some audio novels, and a rulebook for $90. Worst case scenario, that's a wargaming convention swag bag.

The following is a mix of my own thoughts and what I have pieced together from discussions with others and observing comments both on dakka and other forums.

I was turned off instantly by the models. I know a good few others that were too. They were to me bland, uninteresting and dated also the contractors just looked too blocky i know this criticism was made by a few people and brushed off as being intentional but intentional or not I am not a fan of the end result, the Karists are better and while I kinda like them mostly I feel apathy about the,. Also the choice to do humans vs different humans was disappointing.

Threads on other websites were considerably more negative than dakka so I would question if the relatively small number of negative comments on dakka were the reason for the lower back rate from the dakka thread. Especially considering that other kickstarter threads on dakka have been considerably more critical. I personally felt thaT anything that wasn't positive towards SAS was unwelcome in that thread and I know I am not alone In that. At first it felt like open criticism would be welcome but that felt less and less true as time went on.


I spoke to people who were very turned off by the general dismissive attitude towards criticism in that thread and with people who said they didn't like the aesthetic of x or y that they were just plain wrong or that they would surely like them if they just understood that the choice was deliberate. One guy literally said and received support by saying that "anyone who had doubt about the models should just stop" because he had seen them in person and liked them.

The adds irritated people both here an on other forums and some felt that SAS were blowing their own trumpet a little too much.

The terrain sprue was generally well recived in all but cost peope feeling that the cost of the sprue and then a random box to put it on didnt give enough savings over the cheaper end of the mdf terrain market.

For me the rules and a terrain sprue or two are something I might buy in the future. If they come out with a faction with an aesthetic I like I may even be tempted to pick up some models but so far they have left me cold. The rules I would have loved to have known more about and seen a game video of before the kick starter was up but sadly that never materialized.

All those negative comments aside I do hope maelstroms edge does well and I hope they use the criticism here and elsewhere use it to inform future decisions with the product.

 Buzzsaw wrote:


Trite as the conclusion may be, it is my frank evaluation that ME suffered most from having uninspiring miniatures. Without interesting and attention grabbing miniatures, everything else went for naught: all the well regarded authors and deep background can’t sell a product to someone that never looks past the first page of the campaign.

unfortunately this is exactly why i didn't back it. The rules sounded adequate and the background interesting. But the miniatures failed to evoke any feelings beyond 'hey they are a bit more detailed than a lego man, and really weirdly scaled compared to modern minis.'

I hope them the best of luck, and maybe i'll grab a rule book later, but i'm not buying any of those minis. the sprue layouts are underwhelming, and mini aesthetically unappealing.

Here is my honest review of the ME ks.
The miniatures where really REALLY uninspired. Generic all the way through.
The military faction looked like something from modern military and the other faction just looked like they where bored. Sculpting and detail wasnt a major problem. But look at this

Compare to their Big gun guys

The first spoiler shows how powerful those big gugs are. The Azra'il is leaning back to heft it and brace himself, like he has to fire it.
The Sternguard is hefting up this big gun and lining up a shot
The Temptests look like you stuck big guns on normal guys. They dont look threatening and imposing. They look bored and wimpy
The Karist angel on the other hand looks uninspired and kinda goofy.

 Accolade wrote:
I thought the niche was supposed to be a mid-size skirmish scifi game. In that way, it attracts ex-40k players who quit 40k due to game glut, but at the same time it draws in all sorts of customers who may enjoy the "20-30 miniatures per side" subset that MEdge would cater to. It doesn't seem to be just about catching the disillusioned with 40k, but perhaps hitting that niche that 40k used to hit.

I feel that I'm in a good category for this game size, which probably helped attract me to the game in the first place. For me personally, 40k has become to large and convoluted. On the opposite end of the scale, infinity has amazing models but the game itself seems (from the outside) very complicated and perhaps not as visually impressive. 40k feels impressive for the most part, but I think the same effect of visual enjoyment can be achieved with many less models.

Anyway, just my take on it.

EDIT: it would seem MEdge might be going up against the likes of Warzone and Gates of Antares. In that regard, I think the quality and range of miniatures will be very important to the success of the game.

Warzone has some of the best miniatures in the business, so that would be a tough nut to crack!

 Accolade wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
Honestly, disaffected 40K players is a GREAT market right now! If that is their target audience, there is a lot of potential.

Just ask Bolt Action!

That's a good point too!

Well, that's pretty much what got me.

Oh my god. Those big gun guys. I don't think anyone in SAS even tried to put their arms in that position (let alone carry something heavy like that).

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

YouKnowsIt wrote:
Really fascinating posts on the first page of this thread.

As a backer all I can say is that from my perspective it was a great Kickstarter, it was just a bit frustrating reading through the News and Rumours thread here when looking for new information because time and again it was the same small number of people repeating the same criticisms ad nauseum. Having to trawl through the same old, "But I don't like it, so I'm going to repost my dislikes over and over and over again" to get to the latest news became a bit of a downer and frankly stopped me posting in the thread at all.

People with different opinions than your own, annoying right

That's not my point at all - my issue wasn't with people posting critique of it, I've put some bits in my original post in bold to highlight it better. The issue was the same small handful of people repeatedly posting the exact same critiques over and over, without adding anything new to the conversation simply because they had to have the last word on the matter.

Imagine you are at a dinner party and you're talking about something like a movie, say Dredd for example:

Person A: "I found the one liners hokey, the setting repetitive, the lack of budget obvious and I didn't like the over-use of slow motion during firefights. I found the plot basic and unambitious."

Person B: "Really? I quite liked it myself, sure almost the entire movie was set in the same building but I thought aesthetically it looked great and was far more true to the source material than the Stallone version."

Person A: "I found the one liners hokey, the setting repetitive, the lack of budget obvious and I didn't like the over-use of slow motion during firefights. I found the plot basic and unambitious."

Person B: "O-k...."

If someone is constantly posting the same criticism repeatedly, without adding anything new to their comments, they are simply shouting others down, regardless of whether they have their caps lock key on or not. That's not a discussion.

YKI - summed up the 'helpful critiques' superbly, there.

And, FTR, Dredd is a top flick.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Oh my god. Those big gun guys. I don't think anyone in SAS even tried to put their arms in that position (let alone carry something heavy like that).

Damn. Now that you've pointed it out... I can't unsee it. The bent wrists. D:

Yeah, that point has been coming up since their reveal. Not saying it's incorrect, just saying it's one of the most-cited beefs people have with the models rifht with "I don't like the contractors."

The wrists aren't great, but the armpits, now that I look at them, are really weird.

YouKnowsIt wrote:


That's not my point at all - my issue wasn't with people posting critique of it, I've put some bits in my original post in bold to highlight it better. The issue was the same small handful of people repeatedly posting the exact same critiques over and over, without adding anything new to the conversation simply because they had to have the last word on the matter.

Imagine you are at a dinner party and you're talking about something like a movie, say Dredd for example:

Person A: "I found the one liners hokey, the setting repetitive, the lack of budget obvious and I didn't like the over-use of slow motion during firefights. I found the plot basic and unambitious."

Person B: "Really? I quite liked it myself, sure almost the entire movie was set in the same building but I thought aesthetically it looked great and was far more true to the source material than the Stallone version."

Person A: "I found the one liners hokey, the setting repetitive, the lack of budget obvious and I didn't like the over-use of slow motion during firefights. I found the plot basic and unambitious."

Person B: "O-k...."

If someone is constantly posting the same criticism repeatedly, without adding anything new to their comments, they are simply shouting others down, regardless of whether they have their caps lock key on or not. That's not a discussion.

Have an exalt, sir. You summed up my feelings perfectly.

Yup, hence, that is the point, after 2-3 pages of that kind of thing being every 2nd post from the same poster, I would call rule#3, cause in my books, that's spam.

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Yup, hence, that is the point, after 2-3 pages of that kind of thing being every 2nd post from the same poster, I would call rule#3, cause in my books, that's spam.

To be fair, said poster was continually having to respond to people telling him he was wrong.

That's honestly why I didn't post in that thread much after my initial reactions. No need to yuck someone else's yum just for the sake of being argumentative (yes, shocking coming from me, I know )

 cincydooley wrote:

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Yup, hence, that is the point, after 2-3 pages of that kind of thing being every 2nd post from the same poster, I would call rule#3, cause in my books, that's spam.

To be fair, said poster was continually having to respond to people telling him he was wrong.

That's honestly why I didn't post in that thread much after my initial reactions. No need to yuck someone else's yum just for the sake of being argumentative (yes, shocking coming from me, I know )

Exalted for excellent self-awareness!

I think I am in the extreme minority, but I quite like the aesthetic of the MEdge models and pledged because I liked the contractors.

I also didn't post in the multiple MEdge threads due to the constant harping.

Out of the whole KS I think the thing that was weirdest to me was the amount of non-game material included and discussed. I wanted to contribute to a new miniature game line...why did I get a card game, novels, and audio books? It felt to me like my money towards the miniature game was going to be pushed towards other mediums and I didn't like that. I was going to increase my pledge amount beyond 90, but the amount of "other" stuff held me back. I have no problem buying those things on their own if I wanted them and liked the universe...but I didn't care for their inclusion in the miniature games kickstarter.

I'm not going to pretend like I read all the pages in this thread and well-composed analyses and critiques, but I'm just going to give my perspective for the leaders reading this, just to add to the overall feedback. When it was first announced I was so ready to back it, knowing that as Dakka's owners you just had to be in touch with what the hobbyists actually want!

I didn't feel like the models were very good. When shown next to GW's models I thought "I'm never going to be able to give these a decent paintjob," due to their scale. I also felt the models had little potential for dynamic posing - particularly the angel. I just imagined several of them on the battlefield all looking the exact same unless significant alteration work was done to them.

Humanoids are also played out. A bunch of bipedal armored models on the tabletop doesn't offer anything interesting, I already have boxes of armored humanoids from half a dozen manufacturers. Don't need to buy even more! There just wasn't much incentive for me to purchase generic looking designs that only just pulled generic off.

I did like the art a lot though. Obviously that's not what matters to you guys, but just wanted to say that.

 cincydooley wrote:
To be fair, said poster was continually having to respond to people telling him he was wrong.

If you keep repeating something that other people disagree with, there's a fair chance that people will repeatedly disagree with it.

Nobody had to continually respond to anything. You don't win the internet for having the last opinion in the thread.

Bossk_Hogg wrote:

I'd also point out that due to WWX's distribution policy, they are only in a few stores. They're mostly direct only - I understand that get's them a bigger % of each sale, but why tool for HIPS if you want to be a boutique direct only game? They could likely grow the game more if they actually sold it through the usual online discounters. I'd get more of their stuff if I could throw in the occasional new release with my monthly orders from the warstore or something.

This brings up an interesting question - in terms of the 2-year VIP SAS membership = discount on orders and access to pre-release new stock vs. the stated aim to be retail-focused. Since a dollar value was attached to the VIP membership in the KS, the reasonable assumption is that VIPs are planned to be "sold" via the website as well. So is the focus direct sales or retail? (I know the stock answer is "both" but we all know how Mantic's stuff sells at retail....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Trasvi wrote:
To me, the main reason I didn't participate was being burned (or having near misses) by too many recent Kickstarters.
3 out of 3 of the last projects I've backed were/are significantly late, and 4 more that I was seriously considering backing are ranging from late to game-destroying failures (looking at DUST).

The former is the thing about this project that concerned me the least (admittedly though, a good talk can still turn out badly - like Creature Caster). The latter is a double-edged sword. I don't personally care much if a game "dies" since I can still use all my stuff with my group (but we're happy to play older games on occasion) but the fact that this game is nascent and only has (the start of) two factions currently does increase the risk there, especially when one feels as you do about the figures..

Like others, the aesthetic/lack of diversity almost instantly turned me off, despite a great deal of initial excitement and a desire to support the "Dakka Game." What kept me around for a while, however, was the sense that this game was targeting "disaffected 40k players" as someone so eloquently put it, and since I'm in that category my interest coasted along for a fair bit. I got the distinct impression that the game was deliberately generic-looking, so that players could use their other models and/or collections with the MEdge ruleset - in other words, a better, tighter, smaller-scale version of 40k with deeper mechanics and unique factional gameplay.

That's why I was so shocked to find out that no rules were being released (initially anyway) and no new factions would appear during the KS period. So, without a strong model aesthetic or an enticing/diverse set of rules right out of the gate, there wasn't much left for me to be interested in.

Ultimately, this was a project that I wanted to support, but ended up having such a limited scope that I found myself "out-of-the-loop" so to speak, with neither the models nor the mechanics initially available to keep me around.