Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The people responsible need to be curb stomped:


http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/13/us/utah-hate-crime-rick-jones-delta/

On an up note, people are swarming the place in support. I'll be heading there myself to order a few.

That is pretty horrible, altough the real motive could very well be jealous rivals rather than homophobia.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
That is pretty horrible, altough the real motive could very well be jealous rivals rather than homophobia.

Not sure if serious...

The homophobic threats sort of give it away, don't they?

 Da Boss wrote:
The homophobic threats sort of give it away, don't they?

Nah man, that's just how things go in The Pizzeria Wars.

Things get real when you step up to the Crust.

 Da Boss wrote:
The homophobic threats sort of give it away, don't they?

Yeah I don't think a rival would literally carve die cigarette into his arms. The rest sure why not, but the carving is pretty extreme. That's pretty terrible and just pisses me off to think these things happen

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
That is pretty horrible, altough the real motive could very well be jealous rivals rather than homophobia.

Not sure if serious...

Well, that is what the guy himself in the video said. Look at 0.43.

It also makes sense. The attacker undoubtedly hates gays, but I don't think that hatred for gays is the main motive behind the attacks. That guy has been there all his life. Why only attack him now? Also, the attackers went after the house of his parents who aren't gay.

Could have just b built up inside the person doing this to the point they say screw it lets mess with the gay guy.

Like small towns out in willy whacks anywhere, everyone knows everyone else's business. I think there'll be some people getting pulled in soon if they're from the same town. A little longer if they are from a neighboring town.
People pulling that crap obviously aren't too smart and get caught.
The cops are already on to some people, according to the article.

 Da Boss wrote:
The homophobic threats sort of give it away, don't they?

Maybe. But a closer look may be required.

'Pizza Wars' might not be about gays, or even pizza.

After all the 'Ice Cream Wars' were not about ice cream.

Nor was "The Chocolate War" solely about chocolate.

Perhaps it is a not very cunning plan to deflect attention from the assaults and criminal damage by disguising them as assaults and criminals damage hate crimes which carry a higher penalty, thus diverting police resources and making detection less likely. Or something.

Or perhaps Occam's Razor?

When I was younger, I was around a LOT of very homophobic people.

They often would attack gay friends of mine. They also tended to attack anyone who even looked feminine (and in the Punk Scene there are no shortage of feminine looking guys).

Eventually, I put a stop to their attacks by shooting two of them.

But they are hardly the only homophobes I have encountered.

But knowing them gave me a window into their world, and into the sort of mentality they possess (as do most homophobes).

Turns out that most of them tended more than a little toward being gay themselves (several were discovered to be sleeping with guys, or having "relationships" among themselves - their justifications were hilarious).

Of course this is hardly surprising in light of recent discoveries from Harvard, Johns Hopkins, and other universities that show that pretty much all homophobes are suppressing some form of attraction to men (even if they are not outright gay).

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/homophobes-might-be-hidden-homosexuals/

There is more recent research that is FAR MORE Definitive than the 2012 article linked above (which I cannot link to in just one post - I will try to get it with an edit after posting this)

The length many of these people go is amazing, especially when accompanied by the Evangelical Christian focus and obsession with homosexuality (which they fear more than just about anything).

There is a tendency among the Evangelical Community to blame the parents of homosexuals for some sin or wrong they committed that caused the child to become gay (thus why the parents may have been attacked). It is sad, but the vast majority of homophobia is promoted explicitly by evangelicals, who tend to endorse "action" against what they see as a great gay conspiracy (re: "The Gay Agenda" - they aren't joking about that. They really think homosexuals organize to prey upon children, thus a great deal of their fear).

The issue is obviously very complex, as there are a great many drivers beyond just sexual repression and suppression. But starting at the foundation of paranoia and fear of homosexuals is the basics (I have read more detailed accounts of the origins of the specifics of the origins of the fear, but I would probably guess that there is no real way to communicate this on Dakka - suffice it to say that the origins are a misguided focus upon some very scatological obsessions).

MB

BeAfraid wrote:

Eventually, I put a stop to their attacks by shooting two of them.

Wait, what?
How come you are not in prison?

BeAfraid wrote:

Eventually, I put a stop to their attacks by shooting two of them.

Because it totally happened dude...

"In the hoodiest of hoods in Merica gays get beaten by closet gays. One man saw the injustice and took it upon himself to fix it. The Police turn a blind eye and he walks the streets to this day. A new hero was born and he continues to clean the streets. It's a job nobody wants, but a job that must be done."

So you shot 2 of them after you found they were closet homosexuals, then used it as an example for the others to fall in line? Did you kill them? Injure them? How did you become a biologist after your prison sentence?

I'm glad I'm not the only person who caught that.

You know, if someone shot two people who were violently attacking someone else, he probably wouldn't go to prison.

Though I'm in the "that happened" camp.

 MrDwhitey wrote:
You know, if someone shot two people who were violently attacking someone else, he probably wouldn't go to prison.

Though I'm in the "that happened" camp.

Well I don't see how you can shoot someone in the middle of beating someone else up. Not without endangering everyone involved. It sounded like he went and got them afterwards. Heck even if he pulled the gun and made the attacker stop and back off, to shoot him then would be hard to justify too.

Dunno, either way will be interesting to hear more.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 MrDwhitey wrote:
You know, if someone shot two people who were violently attacking someone else, he probably wouldn't go to prison.

Though I'm in the "that happened" camp.

Well I don't see how you can shoot someone in the middle of beating someone else up. Not without endangering everyone involved. It sounded like he went and got them afterwards. Heck even if he pulled the gun and made the attacker stop and back off, to shoot him then would be hard to justify too.

Dunno, either way will be interesting to hear more.

Well depending on the state, you can instigate a fight with them with no witnesses, then claim you feared for your life. So long as there were no entry wounds in the back, I doubt a court could sentence you.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 MrDwhitey wrote:
You know, if someone shot two people who were violently attacking someone else, he probably wouldn't go to prison.

Though I'm in the "that happened" camp.

Well I don't see how you can shoot someone in the middle of beating someone else up. Not without endangering everyone involved. It sounded like he went and got them afterwards. Heck even if he pulled the gun and made the attacker stop and back off, to shoot him then would be hard to justify too.

Dunno, either way will be interesting to hear more.

Well depending on the state, you can instigate a fight with them with no witnesses, then claim you feared for your life. So long as there were no entry wounds in the back, I doubt a court could sentence you.

It can't be that easy can it? I mean what if they backed away instead of walked away? Surely there is more to it than that...

Maybe he was a policeman? He'd get away with it then.

Maybe its my few credits shy of a criminal justice degree crying out for some use, but... Anyone else getting a hoax vibe from this?

1. Victim is knocked out, fully inert and at the mercy of the perpetrator(s) and perp chose the arms to carve up? Had access to the chest, the back, etc, and instead chose the INSIDE part of his arms, a smaller canvas(so to speak) and also much harder to carve up if the victim comes to, at any second, as they would be primary mode of defense. Seems sketchy. I know it sounds horrible, but think about the mechanics involved in carving a message on the inside part of someones arms. Why go through that trouble when you have other possibilities at easier disposal?

2. If perp had the intention to do the mutilation and bleach mouthwash beforehand, why not bring a rope? Did he bring the bleach? Did he get it at the pizzeria? He found bleach but not something to tie the victim up with, such as an apron or electric cord etc.

3. The safe. $1,400 dollars stolen from the safe. How'd he get into it? Know the code? Did the perp break it? With what tools? Was it unlocked to begin with? Anecdotal, but every business that I worked for that had a safe kept that thing hidden and locked at all times. How long did this robbery and assault take?

4. The rock and molotov cocktail. First we get the rock through the window that wakes no one up but the victim. Possible, maybe deep sleepers or big house. Maybe both. Then we get the money shot molotov cocktail. "It actually landed on my bed" the victim says. That just seems like an embellishment, it may have happened, but it just seems too perfect. Perp knew the exact room the vic was in, and also had the sort of aim with a flaming projectile that only pro-MLGers have. And thats after the perp tagged the house with spray paint.

5. Perp knows where vic works, where the vic lives, and where the vic sleeps, but only chooses someone elses property to vandalize/destroy or rob. Never broke into his car(if he has one) and stole stuff from that or left harassing messages. No anonymous harassing messages through interwebz/phone?

Violently anti-gay safecracking ninja grafiti artist pyromaniac stalker? Or a hoax?

Until I see the police put bracelets on a suspect(s) and he's confessed or convicted beyond a reasonable doubt, I'm going hoax all the way on the this.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 MrDwhitey wrote:
You know, if someone shot two people who were violently attacking someone else, he probably wouldn't go to prison.

Though I'm in the "that happened" camp.

Well I don't see how you can shoot someone in the middle of beating someone else up. Not without endangering everyone involved. It sounded like he went and got them afterwards. Heck even if he pulled the gun and made the attacker stop and back off, to shoot him then would be hard to justify too.

Dunno, either way will be interesting to hear more.

Well depending on the state, you can instigate a fight with them with no witnesses, then claim you feared for your life. So long as there were no entry wounds in the back, I doubt a court could sentence you.

It can't be that easy can it? I mean what if they backed away instead of walked away? Surely there is more to it than that...

If there's no witnesses? That's not going to be a problem. In most of the States, if there is reason to fear for your life from an aggressor, it's legal to blow the assailant away.

It helps though if it's your property.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

BeAfraid wrote:

Eventually, I put a stop to their attacks by shooting two of them.

Wait, what?
How come you are not in prison?

Welcome to Texas.

MB


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Swastakowey wrote:

BeAfraid wrote:

Eventually, I put a stop to their attacks by shooting two of them.

Because it totally happened dude...

"In the hoodiest of hoods in Merica gays get beaten by closet gays. One man saw the injustice and took it upon himself to fix it. The Police turn a blind eye and he walks the streets to this day. A new hero was born and he continues to clean the streets. It's a job nobody wants, but a job that must be done."

So you shot 2 of them after you found they were closet homosexuals, then used it as an example for the others to fall in line? Did you kill them? Injure them? How did you become a biologist after your prison sentence?

Technically, no. I did not find out about two of them having sex with each other until a few years ago, when one of them came out.

As for shooting them, if you want to dig through Texas Newspapers in Austin, Texas for 1986/87, the Austin Statesman had a story in it about the incident.

People have really vivid imaginations if they think I was so stupid as to just walk up to two guys and shoot them.

Even think they could have been shot for doing something that in the state of Texas typically gets people shot?

MB


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 nels1031 wrote:
Maybe its my few credits shy of a criminal justice degree crying out for some use, but... Anyone else getting a hoax vibe from this?

1. Victim is knocked out, fully inert and at the mercy of the perpetrator(s) and perp chose the arms to carve up? Had access to the chest, the back, etc, and instead chose the INSIDE part of his arms, a smaller canvas(so to speak) and also much harder to carve up if the victim comes to, at any second, as they would be primary mode of defense. Seems sketchy. I know it sounds horrible, but think about the mechanics involved in carving a message on the inside part of someones arms. Why go through that trouble when you have other possibilities at easier disposal?

2. If perp had the intention to do the mutilation and bleach mouthwash beforehand, why not bring a rope? Did he bring the bleach? Did he get it at the pizzeria? He found bleach but not something to tie the victim up with, such as an apron or electric cord etc.

3. The safe. $1,400 dollars stolen from the safe. How'd he get into it? Know the code? Did the perp break it? With what tools? Was it unlocked to begin with? Anecdotal, but every business that I worked for that had a safe kept that thing hidden and locked at all times. How long did this robbery and assault take?

4. The rock and molotov cocktail. First we get the rock through the window that wakes no one up but the victim. Possible, maybe deep sleepers or big house. Maybe both. Then we get the money shot molotov cocktail. "It actually landed on my bed" the victim says. That just seems like an embellishment, it may have happened, but it just seems too perfect. Perp knew the exact room the vic was in, and also had the sort of aim with a flaming projectile that only pro-MLGers have. And thats after the perp tagged the house with spray paint.

5. Perp knows where vic works, where the vic lives, and where the vic sleeps, but only chooses someone elses property to vandalize/destroy or rob. Never broke into his car(if he has one) and stole stuff from that or left harassing messages. No anonymous harassing messages through interwebz/phone?

Violently anti-gay safecracking ninja grafiti artist pyromaniac stalker? Or a hoax?

Until I see the police put bracelets on a suspect(s) and he's confessed or convicted beyond a reasonable doubt, I'm going hoax all the way on the this.

Could go either way.

The reporting in the incident could be really crappy (leaving many details ambiguous - of course that could be on purpose). Of course the event could have happened, but the reporting is purposefully vague so as to obscure details necessary to distinguish the perps.

Or.

The guy could be faking it. The world is full of people who wish to martyr themselves.

MB

 nels1031 wrote:

4. The rock and molotov cocktail. First we get the rock through the window that wakes no one up but the victim. Possible, maybe deep sleepers or big house. Maybe both. Then we get the money shot molotov cocktail. "It actually landed on my bed" the victim says. That just seems like an embellishment, it may have happened, but it just seems too perfect. Perp knew the exact room the vic was in, and also had the sort of aim with a flaming projectile that only pro-MLGers have. And thats after the perp tagged the house with spray paint.

The Molotov was the first projectile, per the story. Also, you're making assumptions regarding the perpetrators' knowledge. Jones' window may well have been the most convenient target for that sort of attack, and there may have been outwardly visible reasons to assume it was Jones' room.

As to aim: It isn't hard to throw a bottle through a target the size of a window. There are exceptions but most above ground windows, in the US, are pretty big.

 nels1031 wrote:

Violently anti-gay safecracking ninja grafiti artist pyromaniac stalker? Or a hoax?

There would need to be more than one attacker in order to hold down Jones' arms and legs simultaneously, and it would have been easy to lift a safe key off his person during that time.

Also, by calling "hoax" you're basically denying that any of the things detailed in the article actually happened. The events may not have played out as the article describes, but gak undeniably went down.

 dogma wrote:
The Molotov was the first projectile, per the story. Also, you're making assumptions regarding the perpetrators' knowledge. Jones' window may well have been the most convenient target for that sort of attack, and there may have been outwardly visible reasons to assume it was Jones' room.

Then it makes less sense. Why throw a rock with a message you want to send into a fire? An anti-gay message into a gay mans room, who the happens to be the person to find the message. Too convienent.

 dogma wrote:
As to aim: It isn't hard to throw a bottle through a target the size of a window. There are exceptions but most above ground windows, in the US, are pretty big.

A flaming bottle, In the dark, and then to throw a rock big enough for a message of some sort through same window. Not saying it impossible, but just strikes me as too perfect.

 dogma wrote:
There would need to be more than one attacker in order to hold down Jones' arms and legs simultaneously, and it would have been easy to lift a safe key off his person during that time.

Per the article and his own words in the video, it was "someone" who held him down and tried to pour bleach into his mouth. He doesn't mention multiple perps.

 dogma wrote:
Also, by calling "hoax" you're basically denying that any of the things detailed in the article actually happened. The events may not have played out as the article describes, but gak undeniably went down.

Nah, saying its a hoax doesn't deny everything. Just that deception is taking place.

I saw this thread title and thought I’d be getting a sad story of persecution. I had no idea I’d get to read about the brutal world of pizza store wars and another story about this dude who totally shot two homophobes this one time, honestly it really happened.

Days like this I really love dakka.

 nels1031 wrote:

A flaming bottle, In the dark, and then to throw a rock big enough for a message of some sort through same window. Not saying it impossible, but just strikes me as too perfect.

I can reliably throw a projectile, of any sort, through a target equivalent in size to a basketball hoop. A basketball hoop is much smaller than an average American window, and I am not special.

 nels1031 wrote:

Per the article and his own words in the video, it was "someone" who held him down and tried to pour bleach into his mouth. He doesn't mention multiple perps.

How does a perpetrator hold someone down while simultaneously trying to pour bleach in the victims' mouth?

 Iron_Captain wrote:

BeAfraid wrote:

Eventually, I put a stop to their attacks by shooting two of them.

Wait, what?
How come you are not in prison?

The first rule of Internet Fight Club is one does not mention internet fight club!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 nels1031 wrote:
Maybe its my few credits shy of a criminal justice degree crying out for some use, but... Anyone else getting a hoax vibe from this?

1. Victim is knocked out, fully inert and at the mercy of the perpetrator(s) and perp chose the arms to carve up? Had access to the chest, the back, etc, and instead chose the INSIDE part of his arms, a smaller canvas(so to speak) and also much harder to carve up if the victim comes to, at any second, as they would be primary mode of defense. Seems sketchy. I know it sounds horrible, but think about the mechanics involved in carving a message on the inside part of someones arms. Why go through that trouble when you have other possibilities at easier disposal?

2. If perp had the intention to do the mutilation and bleach mouthwash beforehand, why not bring a rope? Did he bring the bleach? Did he get it at the pizzeria? He found bleach but not something to tie the victim up with, such as an apron or electric cord etc.

3. The safe. $1,400 dollars stolen from the safe. How'd he get into it? Know the code? Did the perp break it? With what tools? Was it unlocked to begin with? Anecdotal, but every business that I worked for that had a safe kept that thing hidden and locked at all times. How long did this robbery and assault take?

4. The rock and molotov cocktail. First we get the rock through the window that wakes no one up but the victim. Possible, maybe deep sleepers or big house. Maybe both. Then we get the money shot molotov cocktail. "It actually landed on my bed" the victim says. That just seems like an embellishment, it may have happened, but it just seems too perfect. Perp knew the exact room the vic was in, and also had the sort of aim with a flaming projectile that only pro-MLGers have. And thats after the perp tagged the house with spray paint.

5. Perp knows where vic works, where the vic lives, and where the vic sleeps, but only chooses someone elses property to vandalize/destroy or rob. Never broke into his car(if he has one) and stole stuff from that or left harassing messages. No anonymous harassing messages through interwebz/phone?

Violently anti-gay safecracking ninja grafiti artist pyromaniac stalker? Or a hoax?

Until I see the police put bracelets on a suspect(s) and he's confessed or convicted beyond a reasonable doubt, I'm going hoax all the way on the this.

My paranoia meter actually...agrees.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sebster wrote:
I saw this thread title and thought I’d be getting a sad story of persecution. I had no idea I’d get to read about the brutal world of pizza store wars and another story about this dude who totally shot two homophobes this one time, honestly it really happened.

Days like this I really love dakka.

Dakka is like a river to its people.

Could be real, could be false (always good to be suspicious).
There would probably be corraborating witnesses to the attempted firebombing and the how the money was stolen.

As to Austin murders in the 80s. Um ok...what? Huh?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

I can reliably throw a projectile, of any sort, through a target equivalent in size to a basketball hoop. A basketball hoop is much smaller than an average American window, and I am not special.

Showoff.

 dogma wrote:
How does a perpetrator hold someone down while simultaneously trying to pour bleach in the victims' mouth?

Exactly.