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Greetings all.

So between my massive daemon army, and my growing Daemonkin army, it wouldn't take much for me to field a CSM army of a decent size. My question is, what actually works for CSM these days? I realise that they've never been the strongest codex, and I doubt that has improved with time. There must be some decent, if not "strong", builds for them though. I have no qualms about using allies or forge world to fill in the gaps, so any advice would be much appreciated!

Considered allying in a Skyhammer Annihilation Force then?

 Dakkamite wrote:
Considered allying in a Skyhammer Annihilation Force then?

Well that would certainly do it... Probs better off taking something more appropriate as I starting point I think!

 Vomikron Noxis wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
Considered allying in a Skyhammer Annihilation Force then?

Well that would certainly do it... Probs better off taking something more appropriate as I starting point I think!

Something else would be more appropriate, but not better.

With more Marines to be expected in future games, the Heldrake is quickly becoming a meta-killer again. The hellchicken just loves toasting Skyhammer Marines. Still, winning with CSM is one of the tougher challenges you can get yourself into.

Trouble with CSM is that you have bad, horribly overpriced troops only. Fast Attack and Heavy have some solid options. HQ is okay - slightly overcosted for what you get, but can work in the right combinations. It's a pity the only formations CSM get spam Troops and/or Elites.

CSM can actually make a fine Flyer army, thanks to the variety of strong flyers you can bring.

A straight rush list with Maulerfiends, Spawn, Bikes, and beatstick HQs, potentially with Belakor, can also work okay.

A Battlebrothers Allied detachment with a Khornelord on Juggernaut, alibi troops, Heldrake, and whatever fits your army best from HS (Fire Raptor/Sicaran/Rapier/Maulerfiend) should be useful in many games.

Depends what you mean by competiitve. Can you make it to day three at a GT? Pretty tough hill to climb. Can you rock a RTT with decent regularity? Absolutely.

Things that work well:

1) allying Daemons to cover weaknesses, or allying CSM wihth a daemons promary force, as seems to be your plan. Personally, with Be'Lakor's versatility, I tend to like allying Daemons, as CSM get expensive quickly and I can make do with a single FOC slot with the remaining points. Plus, if you don't have Fateweaver as your HQ choice, the warpstorm can be a pain, especially in competitive play where you need to reduce randomness.

2) As has been said, utilize CSM's great flyers. You probably don't need three heldrakes, or even two. The Chaos Fire Raptor (IA 13) is one of the best flyers in the game. Use it. Love it. Wish it wasn't a relic so that you could take three. Consider taking an appropriate HQ so that you can take 3 anyways. Warp smith, Abaddon or a Sorcerer with Malefic.

3) Make the best of a bad situation with your troops. Keep them cheap, remember that they are still obsec, and still marines. Sure, they know fear but you can work around that. My way around it is to take Kharn so that my troops are Fearless 'Zerkers. You can also use the forge world drop pod to deposit your troops if you want to be offensive (75 pts but they can sit inside it for a turn until they can assault, and it has jink. Because reasons. And isn't really a drop pod, so it can fly around after you let your friends out)

4) Use synergy. It wouldn't seem like there is a lot of obvious synergy, but for example Be'lakor can shroud any vehicle. 2+ jink. Or any MC for the same. That's my plan to keep my Bloodthirster safe (can you tell I play Khorne?). Any daemon can take the grim to give Be'Lakor a 2++. Believe me, he can do some work with that and EW. Invisibility of course goes well with everything.

 Vomikron Noxis wrote:
Greetings all.

So between my massive daemon army, and my growing Daemonkin army, it wouldn't take much for me to field a CSM army of a decent size. My question is, what actually works for CSM these days? I realise that they've never been the strongest codex, and I doubt that has improved with time. There must be some decent, if not "strong", builds for them though. I have no qualms about using allies or forge world to fill in the gaps, so any advice would be much appreciated!

Nurgle spawn remain awesome

Bikes are not bad

Cultists are the solution to Skyhammer. Bubble wrap in cover

Helturkeys arent great anymore, but they are still ok.

The HS section is looking less and less luster.


I wouldnt say it is competitive. You can compete with other bottom tier armies just fine though.

 luke1705 wrote:
(75 pts but they can sit inside it for a turn until they can assault, and it has jink. Because reasons. And isn't really a drop pod, so it can fly around after you let your friends out).

Please tell me I missed some kind of faq, that says the dreadclaws only cost 75 points ! ...pleaaaase

I use Two CADS for 2 Telepathy Sorcerers, bikes, spell familiars and a beat stick bike lord HQ. 4 cultists for troops I try to buff with Mental Fortitude for fearless (and disposable) MSU.

Add Spawns, Bikes, Heldrakes, and 6 single Oblits.

With the right powers you get Invisible Death Star, Shrouded Bikes, multiple oblits with DS options and everyone just loves Hedrakes...

That's about as good as I've gotten out of solo CSM

Roknar wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
(75 pts but they can sit inside it for a turn until they can assault, and it has jink. Because reasons. And isn't really a drop pod, so it can fly around after you let your friends out).

Please tell me I missed some kind of faq, that says the dreadclaws only cost 75 points ! ...pleaaaase

Haha sorry nope. Brain fart. I was probably thinking something like "cost around 75 points MORE than a normal drop pod"

But hey, for those of us who aren't a part of some special formation that lets you assault from reserves, it's not an awful way to go. Plus having the "drop pod" run around burninating people after your guys get out is always pretty cool. I just use one as my Kharn delivery system

 luke1705 wrote:
Depends what you mean by competiitve. Can you make it to day three at a GT? Pretty tough hill to climb. Can you rock a RTT with decent regularity? Absolutely.

Things that work well:

1) allying Daemons to cover weaknesses, or allying CSM wihth a daemons promary force, as seems to be your plan. Personally, with Be'Lakor's versatility, I tend to like allying Daemons, as CSM get expensive quickly and I can make do with a single FOC slot with the remaining points. Plus, if you don't have Fateweaver as your HQ choice, the warpstorm can be a pain, especially in competitive play where you need to reduce randomness.

2) As has been said, utilize CSM's great flyers. You probably don't need three heldrakes, or even two. The Chaos Fire Raptor (IA 13) is one of the best flyers in the game. Use it. Love it. Wish it wasn't a relic so that you could take three. Consider taking an appropriate HQ so that you can take 3 anyways. Warp smith, Abaddon or a Sorcerer with Malefic.

3) Make the best of a bad situation with your troops. Keep them cheap, remember that they are still obsec, and still marines. Sure, they know fear but you can work around that. My way around it is to take Kharn so that my troops are Fearless 'Zerkers. You can also use the forge world drop pod to deposit your troops if you want to be offensive (75 pts but they can sit inside it for a turn until they can assault, and it has jink. Because reasons. And isn't really a drop pod, so it can fly around after you let your friends out)

4) Use synergy. It wouldn't seem like there is a lot of obvious synergy, but for example Be'lakor can shroud any vehicle. 2+ jink. Or any MC for the same. That's my plan to keep my Bloodthirster safe (can you tell I play Khorne?). Any daemon can take the grim to give Be'Lakor a 2++. Believe me, he can do some work with that and EW. Invisibility of course goes well with everything.

Does a "Sorcerer with Malefic" mean that he has to roll everything on Malefic or just once?

Also, don't forget Blight Drones. Every time I've used mine (granted, in Daemons) they've done serious work.

 luke1705 wrote:

Roknar wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
(75 pts but they can sit inside it for a turn until they can assault, and it has jink. Because reasons. And isn't really a drop pod, so it can fly around after you let your friends out).

Please tell me I missed some kind of faq, that says the dreadclaws only cost 75 points ! ...pleaaaase

Haha sorry nope. Brain fart. I was probably thinking something like "cost around 75 points MORE than a normal drop pod"

But hey, for those of us who aren't a part of some special formation that lets you assault from reserves, it's not an awful way to go. Plus having the "drop pod" run around burninating people after your guys get out is always pretty cool. I just use one as my Kharn delivery system

NNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOooooooooo_{°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°}.......
Jokes aside. I which they were cheaper, but I'm finding them to be worth the 100 pts. The only problem that I have with them , is that their useless for the role they were designed for. Crashing straight into the enemy and clearing the landing site... Sounds awesome, but it translates to: mishap after eating some dude. They are, however epic at capturing objectives and they still work for assaults, though it means hiding behind some ruin like a coward and then pretend that never happened the turn after when you assault out of it.

I've managed to wipe an entire pathfinder unit with the flame attack though lol. It's great fun when it works, but you better not be playing competitively lol. If only that dimensional key wouldn't be so hard to activate and still have a unit that can actually use it.