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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/30 04:02:59
Subject: Orks vs necrons.
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Glorious Lord of Chaos
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
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Armageddon is simple to explain - it's jungles are vast and it has the best Kommando in the galaxy sneaking in it. It is a very special - arguably unique - case, and therefore easy enough to reconcile with the many cases of Ork infestations being smoothly purged.
In addition, I assure you that hiding from scared, scarce Guard patrols and hiding from relentless Necron automata are very different things. Hell, in the Ork codex we see in a quote that some Imperial commanders don't even believe Kommandos exist at all.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/06/30 04:07:07
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/30 07:15:19
Subject: Orks vs necrons.
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Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'
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DaPino wrote:
Oh really? A race capable of bending time and space would not be able to track down and destroy fungal spores?
Now you're just trying to make me laugh.
It's not simply as easy as "Kill the spores", that's the entire point. Necrons are superior technology wise, and they could "cleanse" a world of Orks much easier than the Imperium. It would be tedious and frustrating, but they could.
The problem is that cleansing a world doesn't mean the Orks don't just re-settle it.
Case in points: Orks are drawn to good fights, and if you beat Orks they'll just come back because it was a right-good scrap. So the Crons destroy an Ork fleet, put down all the Orks on the world, and then cleanse it entirely of spores. Alright, great. They move on.
Some time later, more Orks show up looking for the fight. They land on the planet (releasing spores), at which point one of two things happen. Either they settle in for one reason or another - maybe they get stranded. Start harvesting all the scrap left in space from the battle, dig into the planet itself and harvest more metals / oils / yadda yadda. Alternatively they just leave, because there's no fight. However their spores are now on the planet - and while it may be barren, Orks bring their own eco system with them. Awhile later Orks suddenly start cropping up small numbers on the world, and after awhile they turn into a fully-fledged space faring Ork force via (again) harvesting what's in the planet and left in space nearby from the original Orks who died there.
Either way the result is the same thing. The Orks wind up in the exact same position as before, and the 'Crons have to come back and wipe them out again.
I never said that defeating an Ork force would (fluff-wise) be particularly hard for the Necrons, but the problem is simply how Orks go about doing crap. Sure they can cleanse a planet of spores, but they then have to guard and watch over that planet. And not just with some tiny force either, they have to dedicate some actual assets to it (or else risk too-large an Ork fleet showing up and beating them). This means that the Necrons would have to leave a substantial garrison / ship group at every single world they cleanse of Orkoid infestation. In the entire galaxy.
Regardless of tech, this becomes pretty difficult for a race that has finite numbers and no-longer reproduces in any way. Especially when dealing with an enemy that spreads and gestitates in the manner that Orks do.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/30 08:53:58
Subject: Orks vs necrons.
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Hallowed Canoness
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ProwlerPC wrote:Sorry but I know at least Boss Snikrot and his Red Skull Kommandos from Ghazzy's first invasion of Armegeddon survived and rejoined the battle when Ghazzy returned shedding spores the whole time. Ok here I got a part the fluff pointed out on pg 19 in W!G that 'Feral Orks and Kommando teams burst from the equatorial jungles and mountain ranges of Armegeddon to join the growing throngs.'
A world that had 57 yrs to the day to clean up and prepare and build up for the Orks return (Yarrick warned em). If they were missing all those and they had 57 yrs to shed spores it looks to me like a planet that was going to be stuck with the endless cycle of Orks despite best efforts short of exterminatus.
As far as I'm aware, the burn teams weren't instigated on Armageddon until the Third War, and were instigated as a result of the Feral Ork infestation that revealed itself at the start of said war.
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"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/30 09:22:18
Subject: Orks vs necrons.
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Stubborn Hammerer
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Allow me to finish that sentence for you: "Orks are a fun, believable, non-terminal, immeasurable menace."
I meant in terms of 'threats to the galaxy.' It is quite plausible that a race of the Ork's description would be a lasting menace while not threatening the Imperium's actual existence.
Frankly, the technophobic, learnophobic Imperium lasting more than a century or two verses human ingenuity breaks my suspension of disbelief. Let's not even talk about the time warp evolution of the Nids. When you really think about it, fungal warriors who sport hair via other parasitic organisms is equally plausible.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/30 10:46:58
Subject: Orks vs necrons.
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Yellin' Yoof on a Scooter
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As someone who plays Necrons and Orkz as allies (however much that is possible, thanks for nothing 7ed), this is quite a personal thought experiment. My bet is still on the Orkz, since as has been pointed multiple times, the Orkz have a virtually limitless number and can salvage anything, even Necron tech, while the Necrons, for all their mastery of pretty much everything in the universe, have a very finite number. As someone said (paraphrased): "If 1 Necron irreperably dies while 1 million Orkz die also die, the Orkz got an advantage out of that".
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DS:90S+GMB--I+Pw40k11#+D+A+/fWD180R+T(S)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/30 11:23:57
Subject: Orks vs necrons.
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Hallowed Canoness
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Ah, but Sorata, if one million Scarabs die and one ork also dies, the Necrons are the ones with the advantage.
Everyone playing the numbers game against the Necrons loves to forget that Necrons have a even more prolific use of drones than the Tau.
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"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/30 14:54:20
Subject: Orks vs necrons.
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Trustworthy Shas'vre
california
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Furyou Miko wrote:Ah, but Sorata, if one million Scarabs die and one ork also dies, the Necrons are the ones with the advantage.
Everyone playing the numbers game against the Necrons loves to forget that Necrons have a even more prolific use of drones than the Tau.
Please stop fighting a lost battle. Look at the facts stated. Look at the poll results. You. Have. Lost.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/30 15:22:43
Subject: Orks vs necrons.
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[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion
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Rule 1 is an important rule. That's why it is rule 1. Be polite. That includes your manner, the tone of your post (which is hard to judge through text, so take extra time if you are posting angry to think about if you really have to), the types of arguments you are making (are you addressing an argument in your post or an individual) and more. So keep it in mind when posting in this thread, and on Dakka in general
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I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/30 15:32:12
Subject: Re:Orks vs necrons.
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Squishy Oil Squig
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I voted for Orks, even with my somewhat limited knowledge of Necrons. Looking at the Ork codex, there are a couple of quotes that are somewhat interesting (apologies if these have been mentioned previously)
'Instead, they plough from one conquest to the next, secure in the knowledge that one day, they will rule it all'
'should the Orks ever truly unify, they would crush all opposition.'
I'm not saying that the Orks would win hands-down no question, but from my (again limited) knowledge, it seems like you need to look no further than the Codex to see that they'd stand the best chance of winning. That being said, the Orks will never truly unify, but it sounds like the same can be said of the Necrons.
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Operate! Operate! Still time to operate! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/30 15:54:51
Subject: Orks vs necrons.
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Heroic Senior Officer
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Codex's are generally one sided propaganda, according to the IG one, they can beat anyone if they're able to focus on one enemy at a time
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/30 19:29:37
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/30 15:56:32
Subject: Orks vs necrons.
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Squishy Oil Squig
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Bobthehero wrote:Codex's are gently the ne sided propaganda, according to the IG one, they can beat anyone if they're able to focus on one enemy at a time
Fair enough
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Operate! Operate! Still time to operate! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/30 19:36:54
Subject: Re:Orks vs necrons.
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Nasty Nob
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Arch-Arsonist of Ontario wrote:.....'should the Orks ever truly unify, they would crush all opposition.'.
Bobthehero wrote:Codex's are generally one sided propaganda, according to the IG one, they can beat anyone if they're able to focus on one enemy at a time
There's your answer. The Guard can only handle one enemy at a time, the Orks will crush all opposition.
So, actually, the Necrons are a mere speedbump to Orks. According to GW, the Orks would destroy every faction in the 40k universe simultaneously.
I wonder why they don't allow us to play GT's for free in a formation to prove it? Everyone else seems to get free fluff based buffs like this.
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"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/30 19:52:59
Subject: Orks vs necrons.
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Heroic Senior Officer
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But going by the IG quote, they could also defeat the Orks, one on one
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/30 19:57:58
Subject: Orks vs necrons.
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Glorious Lord of Chaos
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
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But hey guys, if Codices are perfectly canon, then the Orks - even united - would never be able to stop the Space Marines.
Terminators are invincible according to the codex.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/30 21:33:14
Subject: Orks vs necrons.
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Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'
Kapuskasing, ON
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Well if they didn't begin doing that til the Third War and that Third War is still raging on with billions of Orks and IG pouring in from a 1k light yr radii then I'd say it hasn't shown if it's effective or not yet. I am not commenting on the other two examples as no source was provided for any of the examples and I'm not letting myself get baited into chasing ghosts. If there's a source for the other two examples and you or anyone can point them out I'll be happy to read it. I tackled one example by digging blindly through the stack because you handed me an easy one, I see no reason to keep the ball in my court.
That's the joy of these thought experiments for 40k. Each faction is written with their own beautiful bias and these discussions make a great stage to bring them out in the spotlight. My knowledge of both factions have improved.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/30 22:27:58
Subject: Orks vs necrons.
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Heroic Senior Officer
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Both exemple are from the Ciaphas Cain books, don't remember which ones. Pragia is still under attack from space pirate orks, but there are no orks on the surface.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/30 23:02:21
Subject: Orks vs necrons.
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Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws
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There is one really big thing that people here seem to forget: SPACE BATTLES. The Necron fleets are literally the best in the entire galaxy, surpassed by none save a fleet of Ark Mechanici. If worst comes to worst, they annihilate the Orc Fleet, cover the planet in plasma, and get back to what they were doing.
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To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
Tactical_Spam wrote:There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.
We must all join the Kroot-startes... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/07/01 01:12:10
Subject: Orks vs necrons.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Bobthehero wrote:But going by the IG quote, they could also defeat the Orks, one on one
Could you provide the exact quote please? Wording and context can be important.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/07/01 02:44:45
Subject: Re:Orks vs necrons.
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Glorious Lord of Chaos
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
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Forge World's official website entry for Orks says this. Orks occupy more of the galaxy than any other single race and were they unified they would soon crush all opposition. However, the Ork's passion for violence is so unquenchable that they spend most of their time warring amongst themselves. Aside from the obvious meaning of the passage, consider another factor. Orks, if united, would crush all opposition... Wouldn't this mean all current opposition? The Necron race is extremely fragmented, and while they do not infight as much as the Orks, they are nonetheless far from a united empire and various dynasties - ranging from large to tiny - form the Necron race. If the Orks united right now and faced the fragmented Necron empire, victory for the Orks is entire plausible as the passage says. However, if the Necrons too are united, then it radically changes the odds.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/07/01 02:45:52
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/07/01 13:15:22
Subject: Orks vs necrons.
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Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'
Kapuskasing, ON
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I can't refute that point. I have to agree that passage only puts the Orks in a theoretical position while the others are assumed to be in current state. I don't want to fall into the logical fallacy of 'the lack of evidence equals evidence' but I kind of want to assume that the authors would state in some way that 'should the Necron dynasties ever unite they would clean the galaxy of squatters' or something to that effect. I'll be the first to say that this wouldn't hold ground in a strict court of law but like a shrewd lawyer before a jury I figure I'd toss that bit on the table for the audience nonetheless.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/07/01 13:30:50
Subject: Orks vs necrons.
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Glorious Lord of Chaos
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
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Given the sheer power they were throwing around in the War in Heaven, I do not think they need to actually state it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/07/01 16:01:13
Subject: Re:Orks vs necrons.
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Ruthless Interrogator
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Furyou Miko wrote:This is still going on? Even with undeniable proof of an easy Necron victory? Such... Fanboyism
^ I see what you did there
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Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page
It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.
‘I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.’ -Lion El' Jonson |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/07/01 16:14:05
Subject: Orks vs necrons.
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Trustworthy Shas'vre
california
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Ashiraya wrote:Given the sheer power they were throwing around in the War in Heaven, I do not think they need to actually state it.
They do.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/07/01 16:46:39
Subject: Re:Orks vs necrons.
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Hallowed Canoness
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Three pages of it, its about bloody time someone did!
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"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/07/01 21:15:25
Subject: Re:Orks vs necrons.
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Trustworthy Shas'vre
california
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You're still at it, so more than three pages. Idk what you're attempting to prove with necrons that hasn't already been debunked several times.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/07/01 21:22:18
Subject: Orks vs necrons.
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Glorious Lord of Chaos
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/07/01 21:28:01
Subject: Re:Orks vs necrons.
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Trustworthy Shas'vre
california
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In order to claim power and toughness in fluff scenarios examples must be given. You can't just say "war in heaven boom" show some fluff that would state how much more powerful necrons would be than orks.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/07/01 21:51:32
Subject: Re:Orks vs necrons.
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Glorious Lord of Chaos
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
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Codex Necrons gives us examples like these, suggesting that the united Necrons marching to war and really going for it is something very different from the scattered dynasties we see today. Armed with weapons of god-like power and starships that could cross the galaxy in the blink of an eye, the Necrontyr stood ready to begin their war against the Old Ones anew. The Triarchs struck against the Old Ones and plunged the Necrontyr race into a devastating war that saw worlds consumed, suns extinguished, and entire solar systems consumed. Keep in mind the power necessary to consume a solar system. If Earth was the size of a peppercorn, the solar system would be 2,000 yards across. Destroying a world is within the power of the Orks, but they are simply not playing in the same league as the Necrons.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/07/01 21:54:46
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/07/01 22:08:34
Subject: Re:Orks vs necrons.
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Trustworthy Shas'vre
california
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Negative ghost rider, their in a league above. It's been said this even has dire affects on the necrons. And can only be done very few times. Good try though. Next.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/07/01 22:09:14
Subject: Re:Orks vs necrons.
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Wing Commander
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Ashiraya wrote:Forge World's official website entry for Orks says this.
Orks occupy more of the galaxy than any other single race and were they unified they would soon crush all opposition. However, the Ork's passion for violence is so unquenchable that they spend most of their time warring amongst themselves.
Aside from the obvious meaning of the passage, consider another factor. Orks, if united, would crush all opposition... Wouldn't this mean all current opposition? The Necron race is extremely fragmented, and while they do not infight as much as the Orks, they are nonetheless far from a united empire and various dynasties - ranging from large to tiny - form the Necron race. If the Orks united right now and faced the fragmented Necron empire, victory for the Orks is entire plausible as the passage says. However, if the Necrons too are united, then it radically changes the odds.
It's still pretty clear cut. United Orks would wipe the entire galaxy of all oppositon. Imperium of Man, Mechanicus, Astartes, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau, Chaos, Necrons, Tyranids... everyone. That feat alone outweighs facing just one other faction, united or not. The only one that could give united Orks a run for their money would be all the combined Tyranid Hive Fleets, but they'd still lose to the green tide eventually.
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Homebrew Imperial Guard: 1222nd Etrurian Lancers (Winged); Special Air-Assault Brigade (SAAB)
Homebrew Chaos: The Black Suns; A Medrengard Militia (think Iron Warriors-centric Blood Pact/Sons of Sek) |
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