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tgjensen wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The largest Ork force ever mustered on the Death World of Angelis was the mob put together to drive the Diggas from their homes under the pyramids.

It emptied Mektown of its inhabitants and nearly saw the extinction of Angelis' ork population as every single ork was cut down by a handful of tomb guardians. A whole planets worth of Orks, nearly wiped out by one inactive tomb.

I'll let you reflect on that for a moment.

Mektown was the only ork settlement on Angelis. It's a bit of a stretch, to say the least, to call that "a planet's worth" of orks. We're also talking about a marooned ork population, generally equipped with very low-tech gear and no larger war engines. The largest ork force mustered on Angelis is about as impressive as the toughest kid in 2nd grade.

Thank you for pointing this out! Not only was Mektown a single settlement, it was a single settlement which had not constructed a vehicle much bigger than a trukk, had not developed Kans or Dreads (much less Stompas), and had not yet evidenced well-documented ork technology like Traktor Kannons, Tellyportas, etc. This isn't ork warfare at its best, in any sense of the word. While numerically superior, the Orks were invading an entrenched foe with far superior technology.

I'm not arguing that the Orks would definitely win. However, you're making an assumption that heavily favors the Necrons .

Assuming that ALL the Tomb Worlds can awaken is optimistic, to put it mildly. There may be Tomb Worlds which have been destroyed by warp rifts, swallowed by black holes, or consumed in stellar conflagrations. While Necrons do play for the long game, the fact that some Tomb Worlds have only awoken partially, or have awoken with damaged and incomplete memories, or personality damage, indicates that the possibility of a 'full awakening' is not extremely high. Not all of the Tomb Worlds have awoke NOW, and we already know of many that are damaged in some manner.

Then, on top of that, there's no mention whatsoever of the vast psychic potential of a real "Great Waaaagh!". It's not merely that Ghaz rallies all the orks in the galaxy (an unlikely feat, but no more unlikely than all the Dynasties aligning), but, if he succeeded in doing so, the Waagh energy that now attracts and invigorates the orks in limited sectors of the galaxy, such as near Armageddon, would be kindled in every single ork across the entire galaxy, all directed under one will, and all directed against a single foe.

We simply have no idea what the consequences of that might be. Orks have remained fractious and undirected for millennia. We do know that, unlike humans, they ALL seem to have psychic latency, and unlike the Eldar (who are also psychically enabled, though much more than orks), they have colossal numbers behind them. To think that the Waaagh that ensues from a few million orks focused on a planet is simply a difference in scale from the Waaagh that emerges from trillions of orks all united across the entire galaxy seems unimaginative. If interplanetary Waaaghs spawn things like Stompas and Kill Kroozers in the ork psyche, I would think that entirely more apocalyptic creations might be spawned by a waaagh that united the galaxy. You might see Traktor kannons that pulled planets out of orbit, or tellyportas that warped a planet into a nearby star. You might see shokk attack cannons that tore continent-sized holes into the warp. It's all speculation, but, as an orky fanatic, I'd like to think that the greenskins would show the tinheads some new tricks.

Is there a specific reason these necron lovers get so upset at the facts shown of an easy ork victory?

Necrons united vs. orks united you say?

Necrons complete their Pylon Network. Orks lose all warp related capabilities as the Warp is completely severed from the material realm. At that point, Necrons are probably playing the biggest game of shooting fish in a barrel.

Then again, Necrons could give a present of doomsday arks to all the minor Ork warhosts within that giant Waaaagh! and then wait for curiosity to kick in. Several m/billion containment breaches later, the Orks successfully vaporize themselves out of existence. As ridiculous as this sounds, there is precedence for it in the Wardcron codex and nothing has been written since to retcon it.

The Necrons take a page from Leviathan's playbook and initially focus their might on just killing whichever ork warlord is leading this massive waaagh! Then proceed to eliminate each individual lesser warhost one by one as all the lesser ork warlords fight over who gets to lead the Waaagh! now or sit back awhile as all the aforementioned warlords proceed to butt heads over who should lead the Waaagh! now. In the meantime, the crypteks are tasked with developing a successful countermeasure against the galaxies large green rat infestation.

Necrons use the Celestial Orrey, then wait several billion years for the galaxy to reform from the collection of nebulas it has become. Time is nothing to one who is immortal and doesn't need to worry about circadian rhythms to disturb their slumber. Maybe this time sleep in their ships outside the galactic rim to avoid further natural disasters. Or maybe just skip on over to another galaxy.

In all seriousness, If the Necrons are able to complete their pylon project, all but Dark Eldar, Tyranids and Eldar (to a lesser extent than the former two) would be royally screwed as there goes the Imperium's, Tau's, and Ork's mode of FTL travel severely limiting their mobility (not to mention trapping every craft in the Warp that was present in the Warp at the time of the Pylons activating alongside a very pissed Chaos pantheon). Also, all psykers would be rendered incompetent - no Warp access = no warp spawned magic - as would all psychic based weapons. Chaos would be the biggest loser of course.

And then there's the question of what happens to all those souls. Are they ripped away from their respective hosts forever stuck in the warp, and if so, what happens to all those suddenly without souls? Would they suddenly turn into emotionless pariahs? Or would there be an unforeseen consequence that possibly kills most if not all life in the galaxy - potentially the universe - that wasn't already either a pariah or had no connection with the warp in the first place. Perhaps the souls stay with their hosts, but now - outside of soulstones and the like - have no place to go once the host dies.

^ that guy wrote all that for nothing.. as it's been stayed and proven orks would win. All these fan boys. Pathetic mang.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
^ that guy wrote all that for nothing.. as it's been stayed and proven orks would win. All these fan boys. Pathetic mang.

#myorkfanboyism.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
^ that guy wrote all that for nothing.. as it's been stayed and proven orks would win. All these fan boys. Pathetic mang.

Anything you can do I can do better...

Since its been stated and proven that Necrons would win. All these fan boys... pathetic.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
^ that guy wrote all that for nothing.. as it's been stayed and proven orks would win. All these fan boys. Pathetic mang.

There is a deep, deep irony in here somewhere.

I know, right?

 Ashiraya wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
EmpNortonII, have you ever heard of an 'Enslaver'?

Have you ever read the Necron codex? If the Necrons were half as powerful as their supporters in this thread think they are, the galaxy would be full of nothing but Necrons. 'Crons would single-handedly stomp every faction in the game, simultaneously.

Not even slightly. You're just underestimating the Old Ones.

However, the Orks do not have the Old Ones in their side in this conflict, so they are toast.

The Necron codex speaks of the Old Ones' power, not that of the Orks or Eldar. It explains how the Old Ones were defeated by being caught between Enslavers-and-friends, Necrons, and C'tan.

Without the Old Ones' mastery of the Warp, the Orks won't stand a chance against the Necrons.

Necrons are, however, one of the three endgame players who stand a chance of final victory in 40k, alongside Chaos and Tyranids.

Orks' one advantage is numbers (and even that is limited, if Necrons are indeed more numerous than humanity; a possibility that has been suggested). However, they can't bring these numbers to bear against the Necrons effectively, and the Necrons win in every other field.

Indeed, the Necrons could arguably defeat the Orks by solely using one device - the Celestial Orrery.

The Old Ones were dead at the point the Eldar wiped the floor with the Necrons. That's why the Necrons hid.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
The Old Ones were dead at the point the Eldar wiped the floor with the Necrons. That's why the Necrons hid.

The Eldar never wiped the floor with the Necrons, the Necrons retreated into stasis rather than fight the Eldar in their weakened state.
There were some battles between the two, and Zapennec for instance shows us that they were quite evenly matched, but for the most part it seems as if the Eldar left them to their sleep.

Logistically the Necrons would win. Yes orks can repopulate from spores and all that, but necrons, unliving inorganic beings can just scour all microbial life from a planet using robot-zombie-tech. they can destroy ROK's in space and that would effectively kill the orks. it would be a long and drawn out process, but the necrons would win. In addition to this, they would just specifically have to kill ghaz. once their war boss is dead the other bosses and nobs would fight amongst themselves for control and the entire Waaaagh would implode.

At the moment, yes, killing Ghazzy would end The Great Waaaagh! from gathering. However whenever someone gets close to killing him Gork and Mork makes him dissappear in a blast of green energy deus machina style. Lucky git. But really he's just a puppet on strings following orders from actual gods. This scenario assumes all the dynasties wake up unified and all the Orks are already unified. If Ghazzy succeeded in unifying the Orks then it wouldn't be Ghazzy leading the Orks anymore, Gork and Mork would no longer be in the Warp and would be in realspace leading the Orks. It might be enough incentive for the Necron to unshackle the C'tan at this point as the fluff is pretty clear that Gork and Mork are serious tanks that shrug off the attacks of the other chaos gods with a laugh and go back to 'playing'. I'd wager the C'tan are capable of countering Gork and Mork but it might take a few supernova....
The pylons the C'tan were working on before to cut off the Warp would probably be devastating to the Orks. To go for those would mean fighting Cadians and the 13th Crusade as well first in order to secure the planet and rebegin the project. This'll be one planet they won't want to win by tossing a Neutron Star (we'll assume there's one available nearby whenever needed) at their problem. I wonder if that would make Gork and Mork suddenly dissappear if they already are in real space? Or maybe they get to live in real space indefinitely from that day forward.

 ProwlerPC wrote:
If Ghazzy succeeded in unifying the Orks then it wouldn't be Ghazzy leading the Orks anymore, Gork and Mork would no longer be in the Warp and would be in realspace leading the Orks.

Wut?

Read Ghazzy's supplement. His orders are to build up enough Waaaaagh! energy in the galaxy so Gork and Mork can rip themselves out of the Warp and enter real space to unite the Orks and begin Ragnarork. If this scenario assumes Necron Dynasties are awake and united as well as the Orks being united, then Ghazzy succeeded. Although a united Necron might also be under the thumb of ultra-powerful beings...the C'tan.

Was Ghazghkull's success in this endeavour part of the premise?

Perhaps, perhaps not. So far it's the only thing moving in the direction of unifying the Orks and has a measure of success. It's on par with theories of pylons and c'tan and neutron stars available on demand. I did place a caveat in my post that also assumes that if the Necron were once again united it's probably under the ultra-powerful C'tan which is more then a measurable counter.

Orks would win in the end, they can replace all those losses, necrons can't.

War Kitten wrote:
Orks would win in the end, they can replace all those losses, necrons can't.

I wouldn't be so sure.
They can create False Necrons and also Canoptek Constructs essentially without limit.

There is that - Necrons can make theoretically infinite robot minions to fight for them, despite their own finite population.

This is still going on? Even with undeniable proof of an easy ork victory? Such... Fanboyism

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
This is still going on? Even with undeniable proof of an easy ork victory? Such... Fanboyism

What proof do you have?

Both sides have made great points, there is no undeniable facts.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Any one who says necrons obviously loves their... Well... They don't have the d... Their equivilant. Orks would, without trying, win. Because they can't lose. You can't ever trueky kill them you CAN truly kill necrons. Orks keep coming back. Everyone one that does spawns 5 more. Necrons lose EVERY time.

How do you truly kill something that vanishes in a flash of green light to be reborn at a Tomb Complex halfway across the galaxy, or in another dimension entirely?

Necrons win based simply because they have the mighty pinball machine of universal annihilation. A large panel where they can turn off lights on a whim and each of those lights are an individual star.

The only reason they haven't used it is because the left side flipper sticks a little and there is a solid slug jammed into the coin return.

I'll give it to the orks. Unified and so much WAAAAGH power that Gork and Mork can pass the boundaries. How can you stop that wich are being kept thrown at you in unimaginable numbers. The weak ones die, making place for multiple other new Orks. The stronger orks who survive will keep growing stronger, tougher and bigger.

They litteraly bend reallity by their numbers...

Hell they are even way outside the known Galaxy.

Animus wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
This is still going on? Even with undeniable proof of an easy ork victory? Such... Fanboyism

What proof do you have?

Don't argue with him. He can't be reasoned with. He ignores everything you say and instead just continues to present his opinion as fact without anything to back it up and combines it with a load of insults and fallacies. Responding to him is a waste of time.

 Psienesis wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Any one who says necrons obviously loves their... Well... They don't have the d... Their equivilant. Orks would, without trying, win. Because they can't lose. You can't ever trueky kill them you CAN truly kill necrons. Orks keep coming back. Everyone one that does spawns 5 more. Necrons lose EVERY time.

How do you truly kill something that vanishes in a flash of green light to be reborn at a Tomb Complex halfway across the galaxy, or in another dimension entirely?

Necrons can be damaged beyond repair. They are not invincible. Unlike the Orks, because the Orks are endless. Even if a billion Orks are killed for every Necron, the Orks still win. Orks are everywhere, and once they get on a planet there is no way to get rid of them short of blowing the whole planet up. The Necrons are divided and spread across the galaxy.

Considering that the Necrons killed the god-like beings that created the Orks, and then killed the god-like beings that basically created them, I would put a fair odds on them being able to put a hurting on Gork & Mork.

Not to mention the fact that, yeah, they can blow up stars from across the galaxy or, you know, travel through time to kill Ghazgul in his spore-pod.

This is still going on? Even with undeniable proof of an easy Necron victory? Such... Fanboyism

My first impression from this thread is that orks are genetically hardwired to take enemy technology and, 'improve' it. Necrons would not see Orks as a threat, (they wouldn't be) until a lucky Waaagh hits on a weak, mostly disabled Tomb World and goes to town with the tech there.

That how I feel it would play out actually, not a "bring all your toys and see who wins" What if. Really, despite what the Old ones engineered Orks to do (Fight Necrons/ Didn't do a good job/ decided to go and krump everything else too/ became the single most prolific and traveled species in the Galaxy) they've quite simple become the Universe's best vermin.

Necrons? Have a strong enemy in the Eldar (Both Necrons and Eldar are shells of their former selves, even though the necron codex has the obligatory [no one knows how many there could be!] line) and not enough numbers to police the Galaxy.

My second impression was how similar some posters responses were to what I imagine an Ork or a Necrons actual response.

Ork: We arr winners! End of discussion! (can't be reasoned with, gung ho and ready fer krumpin!)

Necron: harrumph! Contingencies seven through twelve would OBVIOUSLY COMPLETELY neutralize your pathetic attempts at war. (bitter, arrogant old fogies trying to convince themselves that their metal shells are worth what they gave up for them.)


But seriously? I think the faction that wises up to the fact this one thread will not decide who actually wins and getting the last word in doesn't make you right will be the true winner.

(also, orks!)

The Necrons fought the Orks in the War in Heaven, they aren't unaware of what they are and what they are capable of. The Orks won't have a "grace period" while the Necrons analyze the threat, that was already done 60 million years ago.