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 Ustrello wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Not a strong argument my friend.

I could probably point out more if I was going to spend some time and research the subject more thoroughly.

The disease thing was less relevant in the case of Chile due to it also being highly unattractive to migrant populations during the height of European expansion.

I can't point to anyplace though that has not had war at some point.

Back on topic, I notice you didn't try and refute the meat of my post though, about the Doctor's trial.

I ignored it because you knew what I was referring to, but chose to be flippant.

Posting with two accounts these days? I was talking to the other guy. you know, the one claiming that the UN was backing this gak?

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Not a strong argument my friend.

I could probably point out more if I was going to spend some time and research the subject more thoroughly.

The disease thing was less relevant in the case of Chile due to it also being highly unattractive to migrant populations during the height of European expansion.

I can't point to anyplace though that has not had war at some point.

Back on topic, I notice you didn't try and refute the meat of my post though, about the Doctor's trial.

I ignored it because you knew what I was referring to, but chose to be flippant.

Posting with two accounts these days? I was talking to the other guy. you know, the one claiming that the UN was backing this gak?

Seeing how you were referring to the doctors trial, which was directed at me. Maybe you should keep track of your conversations

 Ketara wrote:

What happened to the middle ground?

I can only assume it got bulldozed or hit with rockets.

Calling people who have their backs against the wall Terrorists in their own country while their last pieces of land are devoured by the Israelian machine is tragic.But Americans with their fixation on the right to bear arms cry foul when Israel invades the parts of land that is still considered Palestinian or Jordanian, And people defending their last area they can still call their own, I don't approve the suicide bombing methods, but the people in gaza never stood a chance against the might of the Israelian army.

But i am done in this thread, as i hear that rhetoric used here makes think of this guy.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2010/10/27/130862391/l-frank-baum-advocated-extermination-of-native-americans
ISIS is a threat to world peace but the whole middle eastern "conflict" was created by the western governments.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Calling people who have their backs against the wall Terrorists in their own country while their last pieces of land are devoured by the Israelian machine is tragic.But Americans with their fixation on the right to bear arms cry foul when Israel invades the parts of land that is still considered Palestinian or Jordanian, And people defending their last area they can still call their own, I don't approve the suicide bombing methods, but the people in gaza never stood a chance against the might of the Israelian army.

But i am done in this thread, as i hear that rhetoric used here makes think of this guy.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2010/10/27/130862391/l-frank-baum-advocated-extermination-of-native-americans
ISIS is a threat to world peace but the whole middle eastern "conflict" was created by the western governments.

And by that post you know that you are posting for a stance of ignorance of middle eastern history. Throughout the history of the middle east, no country has ever been called "Palestine". and the term Palestinian refers to the group who lived in the area renamed "Palestine" (not a country) after rome destroyed Israel back in the day. The Current crop of Palestinians are nothing more then political pawns in the game of "Destroy Israel" played by Syria, Egypt, Lebannon, Iran and Saudi Arabia. but hey lets keep pretending everything is the Israeli's fault......

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Calling people who have their backs against the wall Terrorists in their own country while their last pieces of land are devoured by the Israelian machine is tragic.But Americans with their fixation on the right to bear arms cry foul when Israel invades the parts of land that is still considered Palestinian or Jordanian, And people defending their last area they can still call their own, I don't approve the suicide bombing methods, but the people in gaza never stood a chance against the might of the Israelian army.

But i am done in this thread, as i hear that rhetoric used here makes think of this guy.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2010/10/27/130862391/l-frank-baum-advocated-extermination-of-native-americans
ISIS is a threat to world peace but the whole middle eastern "conflict" was created by the western governments.

And by that post you know that you are posting for a stance of ignorance of middle eastern history. Throughout the history of the middle east, no country has ever been called "Palestine". and the term Palestinian refers to the group who lived in the area renamed "Palestine" (not a country) after rome destroyed Israel back in the day. The Current crop of Palestinians are nothing more then political pawns in the game of "Destroy Israel" played by Syria, Egypt, Lebannon, Iran and Saudi Arabia. but hey lets keep pretending everything is the Israeli's fault......

Sure just go on about semantics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine

The issue is that Israel is evicting and neutralizing the native people who have lived there more longer than the Jews themselves, Destroying Israel are the least of the worries of the countries you sited, when was the last time again when those counties combined and attacked Israel? They have currently more internal strife because of the Arab spring, And most of them Are fighting among themselves or are in conflict with ISIS.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Calling people who have their backs against the wall Terrorists in their own country while their last pieces of land are devoured by the Israelian machine is tragic.But Americans with their fixation on the right to bear arms cry foul when Israel invades the parts of land that is still considered Palestinian or Jordanian, And people defending their last area they can still call their own, I don't approve the suicide bombing methods, but the people in gaza never stood a chance against the might of the Israelian army.

But i am done in this thread, as i hear that rhetoric used here makes think of this guy.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2010/10/27/130862391/l-frank-baum-advocated-extermination-of-native-americans
ISIS is a threat to world peace but the whole middle eastern "conflict" was created by the western governments.

And by that post you know that you are posting for a stance of ignorance of middle eastern history. Throughout the history of the middle east, no country has ever been called "Palestine". and the term Palestinian refers to the group who lived in the area renamed "Palestine" (not a country) after rome destroyed Israel back in the day. The Current crop of Palestinians are nothing more then political pawns in the game of "Destroy Israel" played by Syria, Egypt, Lebannon, Iran and Saudi Arabia. but hey lets keep pretending everything is the Israeli's fault......

Sure just go on about semantics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine

The issue is that Israel is evicting and neutralizing the native people who have lived there more longer than the Jews themselves, Destroying Israel are the least of the worries of the countries you sited, when was the last time again when those counties combined and attacked Israel? They have currently more internal strife because of the Arab spring, And most of them Are fighting among themselves or are in conflict with ISIS.

the jews are also from their and have lived their the same length of time (barring the euro jews) so your argument is invalid from the start


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ohh and the last time was about 40 years ago. fairly recent

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
I find it interesting that people who oppose the political agenda of Israel are called antisemitic people, that is like all the Americans that do not agree with Obama's policies are called racists.

I am against what Israel is doing tho the native people who lived there before the zionists came and destroyed the equilibrium that existed between the religious factions for hundred of years.

By the "political agenda of Israel" you mean survival? Heavens forbid!

If the survival of the state of Israel is dependant on the oppression of the Palestinians, what does that say about the state of Israel?

What does it say about the "Palestinians?"

What is your solution? Israel is here, and it's here to stay, so "pack up and move" (aka genocide) is not going to happen. Sorry to disappoint.

Find me somewhere in this thread where anyone is calling for Israel as a nation to "pack up and move". If you can't, could you please stop the strawmen? It's getting old.

 Bullockist wrote:

 Ketara wrote:

What happened to the middle ground?

I can only assume it got bulldozed or hit with rockets.

Dude, making people spray their beverages on their keyboards isn't nice.

 Bullockist wrote:

 Ketara wrote:

What happened to the middle ground?

I can only assume it got bulldozed or hit with rockets.

Worth an exalt.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Calling people who have their backs against the wall Terrorists in their own country while their last pieces of land are devoured by the Israelian machine is tragic.But Americans with their fixation on the right to bear arms cry foul when Israel invades the parts of land that is still considered Palestinian or Jordanian, And people defending their last area they can still call their own, I don't approve the suicide bombing methods, but the people in gaza never stood a chance against the might of the Israelian army.

But i am done in this thread, as i hear that rhetoric used here makes think of this guy.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2010/10/27/130862391/l-frank-baum-advocated-extermination-of-native-americans
ISIS is a threat to world peace but the whole middle eastern "conflict" was created by the western governments.

And by that post you know that you are posting for a stance of ignorance of middle eastern history. Throughout the history of the middle east, no country has ever been called "Palestine". and the term Palestinian refers to the group who lived in the area renamed "Palestine" (not a country) after rome destroyed Israel back in the day. The Current crop of Palestinians are nothing more then political pawns in the game of "Destroy Israel" played by Syria, Egypt, Lebannon, Iran and Saudi Arabia. but hey lets keep pretending everything is the Israeli's fault......

Sure just go on about semantics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine

The issue is that Israel is evicting and neutralizing the native people who have lived there more longer than the Jews themselves, Destroying Israel are the least of the worries of the countries you sited, when was the last time again when those counties combined and attacked Israel? They have currently more internal strife because of the Arab spring, And most of them Are fighting among themselves or are in conflict with ISIS.

the jews are also from their and have lived their the same length of time (barring the euro jews) so your argument is invalid from the start


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ohh and the last time was about 40 years ago. fairly recent

Your completely ignoring the fact that Israel are using military power to grab land. Whatever you call the land, and whatever race or religion claims some historic right to it, Israel continue to claim land beyond all agreed boarders and use military force to take it and build houses on it to gain sympathy. Or do you have another justification for Israels continual expansion?

Beyond that the same land was used as staging posts to invade Israel multiple times... Hey keep invading a country with the aim to take all of its land and you don't have the right to complain that that country then turned around, handed you your ass and took your land instead. Would the argument stand had one of its enemies did the same thing to Israel? Probably. Would there be an Israel if it hadn't taken the stance that it has when it comes to warring with its neighbors? Probably not...

 Steve steveson wrote:

Your completely ignoring the fact that Israel are using military power to grab land. Whatever you call the land, and whatever race or religion claims some historic right to it, Israel continue to claim land beyond all agreed boarders and use military force to take it and build houses on it to gain sympathy. Or do you have another justification for Israels continual expansion?

Dey took our lernd!

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Beyond that the same land was used as staging posts to invade Israel multiple times... Hey keep invading a country with the aim to take all of its land and you don't have the right to complain that that country then turned around, handed you your ass and took your land instead. Would the argument stand had one of its enemies did the same thing to Israel? Probably. Would there be an Israel if it hadn't taken the stance that it has when it comes to warring with its neighbors? Probably not...

And exalted


You can't launch several failed invasions at a country without expecting repercussions. Israel has continuously offered peace for land. Your BS argument that Israel hasnt holds no water, especially in view of the recent Gaza war where yet again Israel offered peace for certain concessions, such as Gaza being a weapons free area. The Palestinians refused because they don't want peace, they want Israel for their own.

It hurts every time this conversation comes up. Really leaves me feeling like the guy in Looper.

Be born in Palestine and have a snowball's chance in hell of growing up with a profession of any sort? Probably watching the 'freedom fighters' get all the good food and supplies? Hearing them talk about how they're going to make everything better?

Be born in Israel and have a better standard of living, and a future, but don't forget to be ready for rockets to come and snuff out a relative at any moment.

Don't forget the people that don't often come up in the debate, the Christians in Palestine. They're lower than the Moslems.

But feth Looper kid's solution.


EDIT: In a way though, (minus the suicide), Looper Kid's solution is the only one without war. You have to let go you of (probably justified) grievances or one of you is going to end up dead.

But who can be the first to do that? And who has the authority for force them to? No one, in my opinion.

"Yes, your wife was murdered. But I am telling you to let it go."

"Yes, your mother was murdered. But I am telling you to let it go."

 Scrabb wrote:
It hurts every time this conversation comes up. Really leaves me feeling like the guy in Looper.

Be born in Palestine and have a snowball's chance in hell of growing up with a profession of any sort? Probably watching the 'freedom fighters' get all the good food and supplies? Hearing them talk about how they're going to make everything better?

Be born in Israel and have a better standard of living, and a future, but don't forget to be ready for rockets to come and snuff out a relative at any moment.

Don't forget the people that don't often come up in the debate, the Christians in Palestine. They're lower than the Moslems.

But feth Looper kid's solution.


EDIT: In a way though, (minus the suicide), Looper Kid's solution is the only one without war. You have to let go you of (probably justified) grievances or one of you is going to end up dead.

But who can be the first to do that? And who has the authority for force them to? No one, in my opinion.

"Yes, your wife was murdered. But I am telling you to let it go."

"Yes, your mother was murdered. But I am telling you to let it go."

The biggest problem is that as the current situation stands, if Israel put down their weapons then Israel would be destroyed within weeks. If Palestinians put down their weapons their would be peace and prosperity. But the latter wont happen because the level of brainwashing at the lowest level means they don't see Israel as an actual country and instead view it as an evil that has to be destroyed at any cost.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Israel has continuously offered peace for land. .

'Give us all your stuff, and we won't murder you all'. Hell of a deal there.

And, btw:how does that turn out?




Oh, right, they murder you all anyway, herd your families into camps and take your children from you for 'reeducation'. I can't imagine why the Palestinians choose to fight.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

If Palestinians put down their weapons their would be peace and prosperity.

Like there was between 2012 and 2014! Oh, wait, no, instead Israel doubled down and expanded the list of things that Palestinians couldn't own, and herded even more people into ghettos.


Also, minor detail, it wasn't the Palestinians who started the current round of violence. Israel started bombing Gaza in retaliation for the deaths of three boys (IIRC): It turned out that MOSSAD and the IDFknew that the Palestinians had nothing to do with it, and they had been grabbed for ransom by organized crime. Jewish organized crime at that. But they suppressed the information to get their war, knowing as soon as they started bombing, Hamas would launch rockets in response.

On 12 June 2014, three Israeli teenagers were abducted in the West Bank: Naftali Fraenkel, Gilad Shaer, and Eyal Yifrah. Israel blamed Hamas, with Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu saying that he had "unequivocal proof" that Hamas was involved and that the abduction was linked to Palestinian reconciliation, and the IDF stated that the two men Israel suspected of having kidnapped the teenagers were known members of Hamas. No evidence of Hamas involvement was offered by Israeli authorities at the time.

High-ranking members of Hamas denied the group had any involvement in the incident, and ex-Shin Bet chief Yuval Diskin doubted Hamas had any involvement. The Palestinian Authority in the West Bank attributed the abductions to the Qawasameh clan, notorious for acting against Hamas's policies and any attempts to reach an entente with Israel. Hamas political chief Khaled Meshal said he could neither confirm nor deny the kidnapping of the three Israelis, but congratulated the abductors. The kidnappings were condemned by human rights organizations. Documents released by Israel suggest that Hamas member Hussam Qawasmeh organized the kidnappings with $60,000 provided by his brother Mahmoud through a Hamas association in Gaza, after requesting support for a "military operation".

On 20 August, Saleh al-Arouri, an exiled Hamas leader based in Turkey, claimed responsibility for the kidnapping of the three Israeli teens: "Our goal was to ignite an intifada in the West Bank and Jerusalem, as well as within the 1948 borders... Your brothers in the Al-Qassam Brigades carried out this operation to support their imprisoned brothers, who were on a a hunger strike... The mujahideen captured these settlers in order to have a swap deal."Palestinian security forces said the kidnappings were organized by Saleh al-Arouri.

Khalid Meshaal, head in exile of Hamas's political wing since 2004, acknowledged that Hamas members were responsible, but stated that its political leaders had no prior knowledge of the abduction, were not involved in military details and learnt of it through the ensuing Israeli investigations. He also said that while Hamas was opposed to targeting civilians, he understood that Palestinians "frustrated with oppression" were exercising a "legitimate right of resistance" against the occupation by undertaking such operations. Israel states that the IDF and the Shin Bet have foiled between 54 and 64 kidnapping plots since 2013. The PA said it had foiled 43 of them.

Maybe you didn't recall correctly. Not that anyone will be surprised at that.

So what does a bunch of dead indians have to do with palestiane?

 Ustrello wrote:
So what does a bunch of dead indians have to do with palestiane?

Probably something to the effect of: negotiations held under the barrel of a gun don't work out well for those whom the gun is pointed at.

 CptJake wrote:

Maybe you didn't recall correctly. Not that anyone will be surprised at that.

Ah, nope.

It turned out that Salah al-Arouri had nothing to do with it, despite claiming he did. In fact, it turned out that none of the people in your little blub there had anything to do with it.

It was really run by the Qawasmeh group, who operate out of Hebron. They have ties to Hamas, but don't take orders from them, and occasionally actively try to sabotage Hamas efforts toward any kind of peace with Israel. According to the testimony of Hussam Qawasmeh, they had planned on contacting Hamas to negotiate an exchange. The Kidnapping had fallen apart when one of the boys asked if the other two could ride along. Not knowing what to do, the kidnappers panicked and killed the kids.

Examining events, a few Hamas operatives, one of whom was a relative, Hassan Qawasmeh, were peripherally involved, providing them with a car other materials, and, afterwards, attempting to assist them in escaping to Jordan.

I was, however, mistaken about them being Jewish. But it was organized crime, rather than Hamas, and it was known to the IDF, who were chasing these guys around Hebron since before the airstrikes even started.

For some real hilarity, having that last name in Hebron may get you killed out of hand by IDF. In a sad mixup, IDF troops looking for Wael Mahmoud Said Bitar entered the apartment of Omar al-Qawasmeh, 66, who lived one floor over Bitar. They took his wife at gunpoint, and then shot the old man in his sleep. Then noticed that the dead man was not the 32 year old Bitar.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:
So what does a bunch of dead indians have to do with palestiane?

Probably something to the effect of: negotiations held under the barrel of a gun don't work out well for those whom the gun is pointed at.

That and the fact that Israel's offer to the Palestinians is pretty similar. "Give us everything you own, and you get to live." If you don't agree, they kill you. If you do agree, they pack you off to an unlivable hell and deny you the basic requirements to survive.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

Maybe you didn't recall correctly. Not that anyone will be surprised at that.

Ah, nope.

It turned out that Salah al-Arouri had nothing to do with it, despite claiming he did. In fact, it turned out that none of the people in your little blub there had anything to do with it.

It was really run by the Qawasmeh group, who operate out of Hebron. They have ties to Hamas, but don't take orders from them, and occasionally actively try to sabotage Hamas efforts toward any kind of peace with Israel. According to the testimony of Hussam Qawasmeh, they had planned on contacting Hamas to negotiate an exchange. The Kidnapping had fallen apart when one of the boys asked if the other two could ride along. Not knowing what to do, the kidnappers panicked and killed the kids.

Examining events, a few Hamas operatives, one of whom was a relative, Hassan Qawasmeh, were peripherally involved, providing them with a car other materials, and, afterwards, attempting to assist them in escaping to Jordan.

I was, however, mistaken about them being Jewish. But it was organized crime, rather than Hamas, and it was known to the IDF, who were chasing these guys around Hebron since before the airstrikes even started.

For some real hilarity, having that last name in Hebron may get you killed out of hand by IDF. In a sad mixup, IDF troops looking for Wael Mahmoud Said Bitar entered the apartment of Omar al-Qawasmeh, 66, who lived one floor over Bitar. They took his wife at gunpoint, and then shot the old man in his sleep. Then noticed that the dead man was not the 32 year old Bitar.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:
So what does a bunch of dead indians have to do with palestiane?

Probably something to the effect of: negotiations held under the barrel of a gun don't work out well for those whom the gun is pointed at.

That and the fact that Israel's offer to the Palestinians is pretty similar. "Give us everything you own, and you get to live." If you don't agree, they kill you. If you do agree, they pack you off to an unlivable hell and deny you the basic requirements to survive.

So hamas only had a partial role in the killing of 3 innocent underage Israeli teenagers. Good for them, of course it doesn't change the fact that it was still a Palestinian terrorist group kidnapping children and then executing them.

The fact remains though that only 1 country has agreed to peace with Israel and that is Egypt and surprising nobody, that peace has lasted. Israel gave Egypt back the entire Sinai Peninsula and peace has been complete since then.

What is interesting is the fact that the Arab world is tearing itself apart and Israel is about the only country over there with any order.

 Ghazkuul wrote:


So hamas only had a partial role in the killing of 3 innocent underage Israeli teenagers.

In the sense that Kevan Bacon was also involved, yes. I'll use the late Mr Whitlock as an example: He sells guns to Hamas, he also sells guns to me. If I shoot up a convenience store with them, was that Hamas' fault? To use an example from this incident, i go to my cousin, who's a Hamas guy, and ask him to smuggle me out of the country. Is he doing it because he's Hamas, or because he's my cousin?

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Good for them, of course it doesn't change the fact that it was still a Palestinian terrorist group kidnapping children and then executing them.

Didn't say it was justified. Said that Israel used it as a justification to kill thousands of civilians in an unrelated area. Civilians, who, btw, included women and children. The terrorists were either killed or arrested. The IDF men who authorized the targeting of civilians were not punished.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

The fact remains though that only 1 country has agreed to peace with Israel and that is Egypt and surprising nobody, that peace has lasted. Israel gave Egypt back the entire Sinai Peninsula and peace has been complete since then.

Aided by a hefty yearly bribe from the US, and the occasional US backed coup to make sure it stays that way.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:


So hamas only had a partial role in the killing of 3 innocent underage Israeli teenagers.

In the sense that Kevan Bacon was also involved, yes. I'll use the late Mr Whitlock as an example: He sells guns to Hamas, he also sells guns to me. If I shoot up a convenience store with them, was that Hamas' fault? To use an example from this incident, i go to my cousin, who's a Hamas guy, and ask him to smuggle me out of the country. Is he doing it because he's Hamas, or because he's my cousin?

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Good for them, of course it doesn't change the fact that it was still a Palestinian terrorist group kidnapping children and then executing them.

Didn't say it was justified. Said that Israel used it as a justification to kill thousands of civilians in an unrelated area. Civilians, who, btw, included women and children. The terrorists were either killed or arrested. The IDF men who authorized the targeting of civilians were not punished.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

The fact remains though that only 1 country has agreed to peace with Israel and that is Egypt and surprising nobody, that peace has lasted. Israel gave Egypt back the entire Sinai Peninsula and peace has been complete since then.

Aided by a hefty yearly bribe from the US, and the occasional US backed coup to make sure it stays that way.

actually the attacks occurred after a couple of Israeli kids kidnapped a Palestinian boy in retaliation and burned him alive, another deplorable act, what followed was the Palestinians shooting rockets into Israel and ambushing a border crossing. so don't lie and skew facts.

Relapse wrote:
What is interesting is the fact that the Arab world is tearing itself apart and Israel is about the only country over there with any order.

What's the Netanyahu quote? "Democracy ends at our border".

Relapse wrote:
What is interesting is the fact that the Arab world is tearing itself apart and Israel is about the only country over there with any order.

Maybe their leadership not being killed off by the US + allies, on the Saudis behalf, has something to do with it? Iraq, Syria, and Libya were stable until we opened the way for ISIS when we killed off the Saudis rival dictators.

Dropbear Victim wrote:

Relapse wrote:
What is interesting is the fact that the Arab world is tearing itself apart and Israel is about the only country over there with any order.

Maybe their leadership not being killed off by the US + allies, on the Saudis behalf, has something to do with it? Iraq, Syria, and Libya were stable until we opened the way for ISIS when we killed off the Saudis rival dictators.

If you believe that then you never studied ANY middle eastern history beyond what internet trolls tell you and what the news tells you. Syria went through more dictators/presidents in the last 50 years then the US has had presidents (exaggeration...but not by much) Libya? seriously? Go look at a map and then explain to me how Saddam Hussein kept Libya in line. And as far as Iraq being stable? try again, the kurds have fought several wars for independence...you might remember that whole human rights violation where Saddam gassed tens of thousands of people..yeah that was the kurds. Or that little Mapquest error where Iraq meant to go to White Castle but ended up invading Kuwait and threatened Saudi Arabia...yeah thats wicked stable.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Dropbear Victim wrote:

Relapse wrote:
What is interesting is the fact that the Arab world is tearing itself apart and Israel is about the only country over there with any order.

Maybe their leadership not being killed off by the US + allies, on the Saudis behalf, has something to do with it? Iraq, Syria, and Libya were stable until we opened the way for ISIS when we killed off the Saudis rival dictators.

If you believe that then you never studied ANY middle eastern history beyond what internet trolls tell you and what the news tells you. Syria went through more dictators/presidents in the last 50 years then the US has had presidents (exaggeration...but not by much) Libya? seriously? Go look at a map and then explain to me how Saddam Hussein kept Libya in line. And as far as Iraq being stable? try again, the kurds have fought several wars for independence...you might remember that whole human rights violation where Saddam gassed tens of thousands of people..yeah that was the kurds. Or that little Mapquest error where Iraq meant to go to White Castle but ended up invading Kuwait and threatened Saudi Arabia...yeah thats wicked stable.

Have you ever heard the phase "Best the devil you know". I never said any of the dictators was a nice guy so I dont know why half you crap you typed is about their crimes so please dont try to take some twisted moral high-ground with me. I stated they were stable because they were, relative to the shitstorm we have now.

Dropbear Victim wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Dropbear Victim wrote:

Relapse wrote:
What is interesting is the fact that the Arab world is tearing itself apart and Israel is about the only country over there with any order.

Maybe their leadership not being killed off by the US + allies, on the Saudis behalf, has something to do with it? Iraq, Syria, and Libya were stable until we opened the way for ISIS when we killed off the Saudis rival dictators.

If you believe that then you never studied ANY middle eastern history beyond what internet trolls tell you and what the news tells you. Syria went through more dictators/presidents in the last 50 years then the US has had presidents (exaggeration...but not by much) Libya? seriously? Go look at a map and then explain to me how Saddam Hussein kept Libya in line. And as far as Iraq being stable? try again, the kurds have fought several wars for independence...you might remember that whole human rights violation where Saddam gassed tens of thousands of people..yeah that was the kurds. Or that little Mapquest error where Iraq meant to go to White Castle but ended up invading Kuwait and threatened Saudi Arabia...yeah thats wicked stable.

Have you ever heard the phase "Best the devil you know". I never said any of the dictators was a nice guy so I dont know why half you crap you typed is about their crimes so please dont try to take some twisted moral high-ground with me. I stated they were stable because they were, relative to the shitstorm we have now.

Syria is only SLIGHTLY less stable then it has been in the last 50 years. Go read their history if you don't believe me. Libya? we haven't done anything to libya so they can deal with their own nonsense. and as far as Iraq. I would call a country that randomly invades its neighbors anything BUT stable. Yes the dictator kept the people from killing each other, because he forced half his population to live as secondary citizens and whenever they got uppity he would gas them.

The reason I point out the crimes is because that proves they were never stable. Blaming the US for removing Saddam is fine, but don't pretend that his country was stable before.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Syria is only SLIGHTLY less stable then it has been in the last 50 years. Go read their history if you don't believe me. Libya? we haven't done anything to libya so they can deal with their own nonsense. and as far as Iraq. I would call a country that randomly invades its neighbors anything BUT stable. Yes the dictator kept the people from killing each other, because he forced half his population to live as secondary citizens and whenever they got uppity he would gas them.

The reason I point out the crimes is because that proves they were never stable. Blaming the US for removing Saddam is fine, but don't pretend that his country was stable before.

How about the US removing the democratically elected government of Syria via military coup, which is what started the instability there in the first place?

I seem to recall that the US tried to assassinate the then government of Libya during Operation El Dorado Canyon in 1986, and then aided in the overthrow of the Libyan government in 2011.

As far as Saddam's invasion of Kuwait, there was nothing random to it. Kuwait was deliberately sabotaging Iraq's economy by literally stealing the oil out from under Iraq, selling it for pennies on the dollar, and demanding repayment of $60 billion that Iraq had borrowed from Kuwait to pay for the Iran - Iraq war. When the US Ambassador was asked the US position on the issue, Saddam's government was told the US had no opinion on the issue of an Arab-Arab conflict, and had no intent of starting a conflict with Iraq over it. When asked later why the Ambassador had told him that, her response was that the US had no idea he was going to take it that far.