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2015/06/26 17:31:11
Subject: Why isn't there a rage post about the new, ridiculous Imperial faction book? (Caution: Sarcasm)
Makumba wrote: No one plays BAs, unless he is a masochist or plays BAs in the form of a formation of drop pods full of ad mecha grav dudes.
Feth those heretical mecha grav mechanicus guys! Those are OUR drop pods! Seriously, if I were partnered with someone playing a BA taxi list, I'd assault my own teammate out of bitterness.
2015/06/26 17:31:21
Subject: Why isn't there a rage post about the new, ridiculous Imperial faction book? (Caution: Sarcasm)
Not loving to be "that guy", but unlike imperial armies, we do NOT have 20 BB armies we can pick and choose from to fit our needs, especially not thematically similar armies like the "50 shades of astrades" has.
Allying for xenos is just not that viable as it is for imperial. Choas got a few, so does eldar, but Tau? Orcs? NIDS?
Had I had the option to ally in practically the same army tuned to fit my every need, I'd take it. But there are only two tau, who are nigh-identical. I do not have a shopping list I'd units and abilities to pick from.
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now.
2015/06/26 17:37:39
Subject: Why isn't there a rage post about the new, ridiculous Imperial faction book? (Caution: Sarcasm)
Allying isn't feasible for those of us not willing to shell out $$, either. That's a hollow, hollow argument. I bet I can make a mono-Eldar force that beats 85% of all possible IoM ally combos anyway. Allies are not a crutch for codex efficacy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/26 17:38:28
2015/06/26 17:42:51
Subject: Why isn't there a rage post about the new, ridiculous Imperial faction book? (Caution: Sarcasm)
Martel732 wrote: Allying isn't feasible for those of us not willing to shell out $$, either. That's a hollow, hollow argument. I bet I can make a mono-Eldar force that beats 85% of all possible IoM ally combos anyway.
How about a mono-Dark Eldar army?
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2015/06/26 18:13:07
Subject: Why isn't there a rage post about the new, ridiculous Imperial faction book? (Caution: Sarcasm)
Martel732 wrote: Allying isn't feasible for those of us not willing to shell out $$, either. That's a hollow, hollow argument. I bet I can make a mono-Eldar force that beats 85% of all possible IoM ally combos anyway.
How about a mono-Dark Eldar army?
That's a lot harder. DE and down in the hole with the BA and Orks. Once again, I don't have C:IoM, I have C:BA.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/26 18:13:37
2015/06/26 18:15:06
Subject: Why isn't there a rage post about the new, ridiculous Imperial faction book? (Caution: Sarcasm)
BoomWolf wrote: Let's not pretend PDF does not exist and that red marines can be played as any chapter with ease, shall we?
Other than the fact that I don't own centurions, TFCs, grav-cannon devs, non-Furioso dreads, skytalons, SM characters, Stalkers, or Hunters or any other equipment BA have never been allowed to use. And I'd have a bunch of worthless SG and DC models. Maybe we have different concepts of "ease".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/26 18:23:08
2015/06/26 18:39:48
Subject: Why isn't there a rage post about the new, ridiculous Imperial faction book? (Caution: Sarcasm)
BoomWolf wrote: Let's not pretend PDF does not exist and that red marines can be played as any chapter with ease, shall we?
Other than the fact that I don't own centurions, TFCs, grav-cannon devs, non-Furioso dreads, skytalons, SM characters, Stalkers, or Hunters or any other equipment BA have never been allowed to use. And I'd have a bunch of worthless SG and DC models. Maybe we have different concepts of "ease".
Exalt. Its as if people think we would collect SM non-BA models just for the hell of it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/26 18:40:39
2015/06/26 18:40:47
Subject: Why isn't there a rage post about the new, ridiculous Imperial faction book? (Caution: Sarcasm)
At this point, maybe we should. But I'm not putting that kind of $$ into this game.
If the BA codex weren't a steaming pile of gak, I'd actually be MORE encouraged to buy things like terrain and gun emplacements. And maybe a couple of allied units. But GW doesn't understand this. So I guess I'm defacto getting off their train.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/26 18:44:50
2015/06/27 03:01:29
Subject: Why isn't there a rage post about the new, ridiculous Imperial faction book? (Caution: Sarcasm)
I thought it was obvious... Why people aren't complaining about SMs. Because tthe vast majority of GW40k players, play SMs. Eldar can't have 100% win rate because GW consumers play SMs, so when Eldar came out, rant and rave they are too good. When SMs come out and get free stuff, its K cuz Speec Mureens
Life: An incomprehensible, endless circle of involuntary self-destruction.
12,000
14,000
11,000
2015/06/27 04:03:52
Subject: Why isn't there a rage post about the new, ridiculous Imperial faction book? (Caution: Sarcasm)
GoliothOnline wrote: I thought it was obvious... Why people aren't complaining about SMs. Because tthe vast majority of GW40k players, play SMs. Eldar can't have 100% win rate because GW consumers play SMs, so when Eldar came out, rant and rave they are too good. When SMs come out and get free stuff, its K cuz Speec Mureens
No, it's not at all. The game didn't need the Skyhammer force. But, without it, marines are like a turkey shoot for Eldar. Because Eldar OP. Not sure how skyhammer helps vs Necrons, though.
2015/06/27 06:31:30
Subject: Why isn't there a rage post about the new, ridiculous Imperial faction book? (Caution: Sarcasm)
Poly Ranger wrote: Lets just get this straight. The Eldar book was OP. There were plenty complaining about it. The SM book was OP. There were plenty complaining about it.
Whether you choose to ignore some of those complaints or not, they were there. Fact.
There is no community Imperial bias. There is just as much outrage for both. Trying to say otherwise is just plain false and simply just ignoring all the threads complaining about the SM dex and formations.
Furthermore starting a thread AS SOON AS the DA rumours are leaked asking why there is no outrage is just absolutely ridiculous. People need time to actually hear about it before they can decide whether they believe it OP or not.
That is the point Purifier was trying to make.
Oh - and 3 of my 4 armies are non imperial.
You are exactly right. And here's another one regurgitating the same claim.
GoliothOnline wrote: I thought it was obvious... Why people aren't complaining about SMs. Because tthe vast majority of GW40k players, play SMs. Eldar can't have 100% win rate because GW consumers play SMs, so when Eldar came out, rant and rave they are too good. When SMs come out and get free stuff, its K cuz Speec Mureens
It never stops. I guess screaming "imperial bias!" is the new bandwagon.
2015/06/27 07:16:05
Subject: Re:Why isn't there a rage post about the new, ridiculous Imperial faction book? (Caution: Sarcasm)
TheCustomLime wrote: I think it is because the Eldar codex represented a significant paradigm shift. Up until then the meta of 40k was a bunch of bad codexes with 2-3 really good ones and one that is completely broken. Now that there have been two completely broken codices along with some good ones from the AdMech I believe people are waking up to the new paradigm of 40k where everything is cheese and laden with dozens of special rules.
I agree with your last sentence for sure. I love the fluff, i love what the game could be...but i dislike reading in the rules over and over to find special rules and dealing with cheese that does nothing to me than slow the game down into a sort of boredom. Top that with 50 bucks a pop new dex every year or 2 years and owning several armies... i have not been able to really buy models as i been buying codex and books that now are becoming worthless and i expect them to be replaced ASAP with GW current state.
From my understanding on the new Raven Wing rules... i honestly find making lots of dice rolls boring... oh you roll to hit, then you roll to wound, then you get to make a save, oh wait i failed but i get a +2 re-roll...etc boring... yawn. If a game cant get the same "effect" of a elite type jinx into the game with out making lots of random rolls to accomplish an outcome it is a poor set of written rules. I am finding historicals so much fun and refreshing and i think i will continue down historicals from now on.
"Raise your shield!"
2015/06/27 07:20:53
Subject: Re:Why isn't there a rage post about the new, ridiculous Imperial faction book? (Caution: Sarcasm)
TheCustomLime wrote: I think it is because the Eldar codex represented a significant paradigm shift. Up until then the meta of 40k was a bunch of bad codexes with 2-3 really good ones and one that is completely broken. Now that there have been two completely broken codices along with some good ones from the AdMech I believe people are waking up to the new paradigm of 40k where everything is cheese and laden with dozens of special rules.
I agree with your last sentence for sure. I love the fluff, i love what the game could be...but i dislike reading in the rules over and over to find special rules and dealing with cheese that does nothing to me than slow the game down into a sort of boredom. Top that with 50 bucks a pop new dex every year or 2 years and owning several armies... i have not been able to really buy models as i been buying codex and books that now are becoming worthless and i expect them to be replaced ASAP with GW current state.
From my understanding on the new Raven Wing rules... i honestly find making lots of dice rolls boring... oh you roll to hit, then you roll to wound, then you get to make a save, oh wait i failed but i get a +2 re-roll...etc boring... yawn. If a game cant get the same "effect" of a elite type jinx into the game with out making lots of random rolls to accomplish an outcome it is a poor set of written rules. I am finding historicals so much fun and refreshing and i think i will continue down historicals from now on.
I think this is a problem that may or may not be happening. I'm feeling it myself, so I'm not sure if I have a bias in seeing it everywhere, but every time a new codex drops for 40k, I feel more and more like playing Malifaux. So either it's just you and me, buddy, or GW are really actively pushing people away.
2015/06/27 07:48:23
Subject: Re:Why isn't there a rage post about the new, ridiculous Imperial faction book? (Caution: Sarcasm)
I love when players told me until now "well your dark angels can just ally in X and use Y detachment, and use all this stuff from various sources and be cometetive". While I'm at it might as well throw out the dark angels. Now that BA are in that position, I really feel for them. But really we should all just assume money and personal preference are no restriction, seeing as all imperial players can pick up 3+ new codex and a few dozen kits for their stuff. But I guess non imperial players should also be expected to shelf their armies and just pick up more imperial codex and kits to be competitive. Then they will have all their allies right? I mean DE can ally with Eldar. Nids and orks? just throw that stuff away and grab the fix all imperial ally matrix. Oh you don't want to play vanilla marines with allied mech riding in allied DP, oh well, the option is there, so don't complain.
Imperial superiority conspiracy logic
Spoiler:
There is also no imperial bias conspiracy. Imperial players don't get together at fortheemperor.topsecretforum.noxenos.alsonofilthyheretics.org and plan hate propaganda and smear campaigns. There have been xenos codex come out that didn't get an "OMFG WTF IS THIS OP CHEESE!!1!" posts fill entire pages. Tau were strong when they came out (not as strong as today's meta) and 6th eldar were strong. Both those books received complains. So did 6th SM for that matter. Necrons came out and the community (xenos and imperial players alike) all facepalmed, it was doom and gloom and fire and brimstone (it still sometimes is). Plenty of rage posts. Then 7th eldar cranked it to 11, decided it wasn't good enough, and constructed a new system that went to 12. No one, not even local WAACTFG eldar fanboys will deny the power level of the Eldar book. Yes people complained, but it was warranted. The new SM codex came out, and there were plenty of rage posts. Granted these were more geared towards the formations than anything. You cannot deny they were there. Heck, this post is a SM rage post, buried in some kind of imaginary split in the community between imperial and non imperial players. There are even a few about DA popping up. Why so few? Well the DA codex doesn't look quite as strong as SM, which doesn't touch eldar/crons. Also DA have spent a long time as the reject codex, but don't cry as loud as sisters or chaos players(mostly just kidding guys ), so they just tend not to gather as much attention.
Yes imperial players make up a good percentage. Up until late 5th, I remember SM were marketed as a good starter army: forgiving on the table, easy to learn, easy to paint. Many xenos players started with a SM force, then branched out into what they like. But comparing numbers and claim blanket generalizations really serves no purpose. Heck imperial is so under represented in my local meta, there are 2 other DA players, only about 6-8 SM players, and only about 5 or 6 making up BA/GK/SW/(that one guy who allies in sisters)/IGAM/everything else. After accounting for the players who play different imperial armies, there are about 10-14 at any given time, out of the 40+ regular locals we see. Heck we have more chaos representation than any one imperial force, and even more than most combined. And the rest is all Xenos. Jetbikes and broadsides as far as the eye can see. Orks and nids outnumber any one imperial faction. The only thing we really have underrepresented is DE (only 2 players total). I've been to multiple areas where 70-80 percent were imperial armies, and these tended to be places new stores had opened in the last few years and SM were the go to teach 'em to paint and play army. I've been to places where it has 80%+ xenos, and it was like walking into a Starbucks and ordering a normal coffee watching them neck snap at the idea of me wanting to play an imperial race. I've been to places where it was a health mix of everything, and there were no regulars who were TFG or WAAC, and everyone got along, and people remembered they were their for fun, and respected their opponents, and shook hands after their games, and it was sunshine and rainbows and a paradise on the table top . It's all area based.
On the forums, it's just who complains the loudest and hardest. These people don't represent the whole or even majority of their respective factions.
WAY TL;DR, there is not imperial vs xenos stuff, people need to stop trying to make it happen just so they can complain about it. Also there are post complaining about the new SM and DA codex (including this one), just not as many as for eldar and necrons because, lets face it, they aren't as powerful, and people are just gassed out and not shocked after those.
"And the Angels of Darkness descended on pinions of fire and light... the great and terrible dark angels."
— Ancient Calibanite Fable
2015/06/27 10:16:38
Subject: Why isn't there a rage post about the new, ridiculous Imperial faction book? (Caution: Sarcasm)
PandaHero wrote: Sorry if it has been answer before, I haven't read all comments, only the OP.
There is no outrage because of 3 main reason I think:
1-DA are no as popular/played as other faction such as SM or Eldar.
I like to think it's also cause DA have been in such a crappy position for so long now, that people are still in shock that DA are looking like that might actually be GOOD that and people proably figure dark angels are owed some power
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2015/06/27 10:55:20
Subject: Why isn't there a rage post about the new, ridiculous Imperial faction book? (Caution: Sarcasm)
PandaHero wrote: Sorry if it has been answer before, I haven't read all comments, only the OP.
There is no outrage because of 3 main reason I think:
1-DA are no as popular/played as other faction such as SM or Eldar.
I like to think it's also cause DA have been in such a crappy position for so long now, that people are still in shock that DA are looking like that might actually be GOOD that and people proably figure dark angels are owed some power
If that's the case then why was there major outrage when Tau finally got a good codex? Oh yes, IoM bias!
2015/06/27 11:13:29
Subject: Why isn't there a rage post about the new, ridiculous Imperial faction book? (Caution: Sarcasm)
PandaHero wrote: Sorry if it has been answer before, I haven't read all comments, only the OP.
There is no outrage because of 3 main reason I think:
1-DA are no as popular/played as other faction such as SM or Eldar.
I like to think it's also cause DA have been in such a crappy position for so long now, that people are still in shock that DA are looking like that might actually be GOOD that and people proably figure dark angels are owed some power
If that's the case then why was there major outrage when Tau finally got a good codex? Oh yes, IoM bias!
Apparently Tau were kinda overpowered, and in a less predictable/played-out way then the current DA Codex.
Don't believe me? It's all in the numbers.
Number 1: That's terror.
Number 2: That's terror.
Dark Angels/Angels of Vengeance combo - ???? - Input wanted!
2015/06/27 11:20:46
Subject: Why isn't there a rage post about the new, ridiculous Imperial faction book? (Caution: Sarcasm)
Tigurius/a librarian rolling ignores cover(might even be a priority over invis against this list...). Maybe if you take a conclave and roll all the dice... Though Tigurius has a pretty strong chance of getting it. Not guaranteed, however. Though, getting invis means you'll probably pick up shriek, which might be good for the Knights....
A sicarian to shoot it down. Will depend on the table, line of sight, and a few other things. Might have to finish painting mine now if Dark Angels make a resurgence. Legacy of Mars will be good, and armoured ceramite might be a good buy, too.
A thunderfire or a group of thunder fires shooting the s5 ignores cover shot.
Smashfether doing his job in close combat against the black Knights.
Skyhammer assault marines charging it (will result in a gruesome, horrible death from the talons though...). Though,mother the grav cannons are wasted. Unless you can kill it with the flamers... To bad itc ruled that gravs still allows cover, eh? :p
Legion of the damned toting a melta, multimelta, and combi melta sergeant. With the reroll to scatter, there's a decent chance of getting where you want. Maybe plasma guns would be better in this case?
A pod of stern guards rapidfiring ignores cover rounds. Will eat the interceptor from the speeders, however, if the dark shroud is part of the formation.
Lord of war Knight Acheron, though most tournaments around here ban super heavy vehicles.
To a lesser degree, a trio of vindicators. 24" range against even all black Knights... Something will get within side armour arc and shake or stun you. Maybe in an armoured spearhead, but that is mucho points.
An auspex to negate the cover save by one, since auspex don't stack.
Can loth get divination? I forget.
Ally in all the grey knight incinerators? Or some guard auto cannons ordered to fire on their target.
The only legacy of glory that lets you ignore cover is for blasts...
Stand on the second level of a ruin without enough room to place a black knight? :p
On the bright side, if they turbo boost that still means they are not shooting you. They will next turn for a beta strike, however. After the second turn(when they actually get the save against you, unless they went first), they'll have to jink if they want that save....
Might bring transports back even more, best way to avoid the beta strike is to not got shot...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/27 11:29:54
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
2015/06/27 11:26:25
Subject: Why isn't there a rage post about the new, ridiculous Imperial faction book? (Caution: Sarcasm)
Ah yes, the typhon. Most tournaments in my area don't allow supe heavies, but it is a good answer for the mere price of 350pts.
If I'm going to be buying Guilliman anyways, might as well save up a bit more and get a typhon thrown in. You know, with the boarding shield honour guard for my counts as honour guard, since they look so much better than the ones that come with Calgar.
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
2015/06/27 12:35:02
Subject: Why isn't there a rage post about the new, ridiculous Imperial faction book? (Caution: Sarcasm)
SGTPozy wrote: If that's the case then why was there major outrage when Tau finally got a good codex? Oh yes, IoM bias!
I give up.
Your problem was trying to argue with sgt pozy. He's unable to do anything except complain about imperial armies.
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
2015/06/27 13:10:20
Subject: Why isn't there a rage post about the new, ridiculous Imperial faction book? (Caution: Sarcasm)
Only time people haven't been upset about Eldar supposedly being overpowered was back in third edition when they sucked.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2015/06/27 13:18:28
Subject: Why isn't there a rage post about the new, ridiculous Imperial faction book? (Caution: Sarcasm)
Melissia wrote: Only time people haven't been upset about Eldar supposedly being overpowered was back in third edition when they sucked.
Let's be fair here - the complaints about Eldar have hardly been without merit.
In 6th, amongst other things, their dedicated transport was better armed and more durable than most dedicated-tanks.
Now, in 7th, they have incredibly manoeuvrable troops that can take more heavy weapons than most other races' Heavy Support options. Several of their units are armed with weapons from Apocalypse games, and the Wraithknight got an absurd increase in durability at a negligible cost. And that's not even getting into their jump infantry being able to casually bring down any flier they brush against, or their other jump infantry being able to teleport away from enemy fire.
Complaints against Eldar are hardly unfounded.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2015/06/27 13:18:40
Subject: Re:Why isn't there a rage post about the new, ridiculous Imperial faction book? (Caution: Sarcasm)
2nd edition: Blood Angels
3rd edition: Imperial Guard
4th edition: Iron Warriors
5th edition: Death Guard
6th & 7th edition: taking a break - power creeep (lethality of game) became too hot to handle
2015/06/27 18:23:50
Subject: Why isn't there a rage post about the new, ridiculous Imperial faction book? (Caution: Sarcasm)
SGTPozy wrote: If that's the case then why was there major outrage when Tau finally got a good codex? Oh yes, IoM bias!
I give up.
It's almost as if what we write is in invisible ink.
Both of you explain what's so wrong with my postas I can't see it.
Why is it that when Tau finally got a good codex after two terrible ones they were hated on yet now that DA have one it's fine?
What could it be other than an IoM bias?
I don't have a dog in this fight but as a bystandard, let me offer that it could possibly be that they were upset by an OP codex, regardless of what faction it was.
Like the complaints against the newest Eldar and SM codicies. Complaints about OP are complaints about OP. Faction is irrelevant.
So, when they saw an army shooting their armies off the table turn 1, they were upset. The fact that they are Tau and sucked before is irrelevant.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/27 19:03:15
Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions.
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
12,000
14,000
11,000
), so they just tend not to gather as much attention.
. It's all area based.
that and people proably figure dark angels are owed some power 
- 
