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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
No, its that I want to make a warpwolf stalker in an awesome roaring pose where it look like it burst through the muzzle weilding a discarded axe from khador models.
And I cant make a stormwall weilding a giant hammer and make it look like siege a bit.

There is absolutely nothing stopping you from doing those conversions other than yourself. Mope, whine and be dramatic about it all you want. But if you want to do a conversion PP is doing nothing to stop you. The only thing "stifling" you is your attitude.

Just go to the PP painting and modeling forums to see some of the cool stuff people are making. None of them seem to "stifled". There is a ton of cool stuff.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Then maybe they should not have a blanket conversion policy then?
Im always gonna be against the conversion quality until it no longer stifles creativity and thinks people are idiots.

And in what meaningful way is this policy stifling your creativity, specifically?

Is it that you can't violate copyright law by placing logos or trademarked symbols on your figures? Or maybe you just want to use a T34 tank as a sherman tank? I mean they're each tanks what's the difference? Or maybe you just want to be able to change the size of the base of the figure so you can get more details on it? What can that hurt in a game where things are measured base to another point?
Please I'd love to know what the basis of your statement is in that the policy offends your artistic sense.

No, its that I want to make a warpwolf stalker in an awesome roaring pose where it look like it burst through the muzzle weilding a discarded axe from khador models.
And I cant make a stormwall weilding a giant hammer and make it look like siege a bit.

Just make it cool and the TO will ok it.

Eh... Probably not. The former sounds rather easily confused with Ghetorix (although it'd make an excellent replacement for him).

And that is the problem. I wont HAVE ghetorix in there. So, by rule of elimination, the only other warpwolf with a weapon will be a stalker. Seems easy wont it?

No. I get what you're saying, believe me I do, but they are too similar. In everyones head wolf + Axe = ghetorix and regardless what you tell them confusion can exist.

An opponent could make one slip up, see the axe & think ghetorix and it could cost him the game. There is a MASSIVE difference between ghetorix and a stalker and that difference is pathfinder. A model could be 100% safe from ghetorix and 100% dead to a stalker depending on pathfinder. Mistakes happen, there's a lot going on in a game and one time they slip up and forget that's a stalker not ghetorix & they lose. Remember these rules are for tournaments and at big ones you have 4-5 rounds a day. At round 4 my brain gets a little frazzled and at 5 I start to run out of gas, everyone does.

If you are that hung up on this conversion policy, don't play in big tournaments. In a casual game I'm sure it's fine. In local events, I'm sure it's fine. Remember an EO can make exception to any of the conversion rules. But, at larger events where you have people taking off of work & travelling hours, spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars you don't want to have an unfair advantage because they forgot for one turn that your conversion who looks extremely similar to a well known character model, isn't.

Plus again, deathclock, even if your opponent never forgets it's not ghetorix but it just takes your opponent an extra second or two to remember, it could end up costing them the game and that is not OK because those seconds were because of a modeling advantage not player skill. In tournaments seconds matter. We had a local event that ended up getting 50+ people and because of turn out the winner got a spot in the warmachine weekend tournament. Table 1 ended in a time-out. Player A ran out of time mid assassination. If he had an extra 7 seconds he likely could have gotten in the extra attack and won.

You see wolf with axe, you think ghetorix. I have a questionable conversion for my Tiberion. It's Molik Karns body, with a horned helmet for tusks, Tiberions club, and a shield. Under the old rules I had to ask if he was OK, under the new he fits. But under the old I got approval from 4/5 EOs. Now he's legal but he is properly equipped if I had instead used a sword instead of the club, not it gets a bit more dicey.

If it was a spear, or a mace, or a scimitar there wouldn't even be a question. The problem is wolf+axe=Ghetorix. Sure you can argue it's their fault for not remembering but remember PP is a company that focuses on the GAME more than the HOBBY. They do not want someone to gain an unfair advantage because they made a conversion (no matter how cool) and if you had used the original model the mistake would not have been made therefore they cannot allow it.

The conversion policy doesn't assume people are iditos, it assumes that people have been up since 7-8am, playing games all day, and are under pressure of a instant loss time limit. Unnecessary confusion should be kept to a minimum. I think the old policy was too strict but this new one is much better. Finally, remember an EO can approve it. Just ask ahead of time.

Sounds to me like a problem with death clock the rewards fast play, not skill.

That's your opinion & you're welcome to it. Chess, often regarded as one of the pinnacles of balance and strategy, has the exact same thing.

To me deathclock doesn't reward fast play, it punishes slow play. There is no benefit to having extra time left.

It's there to prevent you from taking forever on your turn and thus having the game end due to a time out. I have seen people in warhammer take FOREVER to move & pick target & slow roll dice just so the round would end and they would win before their opponent could respond.

Without deathclock it is not fair if my opponent knows the round ends in 15 minutes & decides to try & run out the clock. That's not strategy that's meta gaming and meta gaming of that degree should not be allowed.

By that same logic, loosing a game because the clock ran out mid assasination, that, lets assume was guranyeed to kill, is also not winning on skill.

I respectfully disagree. In previous turns he took too long to make decisions. Maybe his opponent forced him to make difficult decisions which caused him to take too much time to think, by properly placing threats & positioning he made his opponent hesitate on decisions which took away his time, that is very much skill.

It's also not a guaranteed kill. He had about an 83% chance to kill with that attack.

Part of skill is being able to readily make decisions. Chess has the same thing and nobody denies chess is very much skill based or claims that the clock rewards unskilled players. If you don't like deathclock, maybe tournaments aren't for you.

This is a war game and in war hesitation kills.

You are welcome to your opinion, I think deathclock is good. It prevents slow play & gives both players a level playing field when it comes to time. In untimed events I can take 1.5 hours of the 2 hour round and my opponent gets 30 minutes. In deathclock we both have exactly 1 hour, it levels the playing field. The skill is in making good decisions under pressure.

I love death clock makes the game so much quicker. Nothing is worse then when your opponent takes half hour just to move his models and that's what I hated about 40k tournaments. My turn could be 20 minutes while my opponents turn takes 45 minutes and the game ends before I get another turn

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
I respectfully disagree. In previous turns he took too long to make decisions. Maybe his opponent forced him to make difficult decisions which caused him to take too much time to think, by properly placing threats & positioning he made his opponent hesitate on decisions which took away his time, that is very much skill.

It's also not a guaranteed kill. He had about an 83% chance to kill with that attack.

Part of skill is being able to readily make decisions. Chess has the same thing and nobody denies chess is very much skill based or claims that the clock rewards unskilled players. If you don't like deathclock, maybe tournaments aren't for you.

This is a war game and in war hesitation kills.

You are welcome to your opinion, I think deathclock is good. It prevents slow play & gives both players a level playing field when it comes to time. In untimed events I can take 1.5 hours of the 2 hour round and my opponent gets 30 minutes. In deathclock we both have exactly 1 hour, it levels the playing field. The skill is in making good decisions under pressure.

So skill in this case is gaming a system and not actually beating by outplaying?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
I respectfully disagree. In previous turns he took too long to make decisions. Maybe his opponent forced him to make difficult decisions which caused him to take too much time to think, by properly placing threats & positioning he made his opponent hesitate on decisions which took away his time, that is very much skill.

It's also not a guaranteed kill. He had about an 83% chance to kill with that attack.

Part of skill is being able to readily make decisions. Chess has the same thing and nobody denies chess is very much skill based or claims that the clock rewards unskilled players. If you don't like deathclock, maybe tournaments aren't for you.

This is a war game and in war hesitation kills.

You are welcome to your opinion, I think deathclock is good. It prevents slow play & gives both players a level playing field when it comes to time. In untimed events I can take 1.5 hours of the 2 hour round and my opponent gets 30 minutes. In deathclock we both have exactly 1 hour, it levels the playing field. The skill is in making good decisions under pressure.

So skill in this case is gaming a system and not actually beating by outplaying?

No, skill in this case is knowing how to manage your time better and make quick, efficient decisions. You know you're on the clock, if you're unskilled in dealing with that clock, it'll bite you in the rear.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

So skill in this case is gaming a system and not actually beating by outplaying?

Can you please explain how one can "game the system"? It's my understanding that it is not possible to game deathclock because nobody but you can control your clock. It's a chess timer. Your clock does not run except during your turn, when I stop my timer your timer and turn starts and my turn is done. If you time out the fault is yours and yours alone. Unlike in 40k where if I know the round ends in 15 minutes, and I know if it goes another turn you will win, I can slow play out the round. In 40k i can take 90 minutes of a 120 minute round. In WM/H deathclock says we both get 60 minutes. I get exactly 60, you get exactly 60.

Skill is being able to manage your time while making efficient tactical decisions. Skill is not having forever to think and plan out a move because in most tactical scenarios you DON'T have forever, you need to make a call. Skill is playing an an even time spread.

Again I'll bring it back to chess, the most balanced and one of the most competitive table top games in the world. Would you say that a chess supercomputer has skill? It can take all the time it needs in order to calculate every possible move and automatically choose the best one. I would say that is not skill. I would say that is exhaustive testing.

It's ok not to like deathclock, maybe tournament play just isn't for you and that's perfectly fine. I know a player who enjoys WM/H but hates deathclock and hates killbox scenarios. He just doens't play tournaments.

If you really want to prove deathclock is bad, run your own tournaments without deathclock. If it's better that way you'll get tons of people to come to them and start demanding it be takes out of others. However I am fairly confident that would not be what happens.

When I was ate the LVO, I meet a guy who was running basically horde trenchers. he said "My plan is to make them loose on deathclock, that they cant kill all my guys"
It honestly sounds like, rather than strategy, winning a game because my opponents dice are spinning, I won on a technacality

His plan may be to make that happen... it's not a very good plan, and I'm betting he didn't place that high. If forcing a time out was actually a viable strategy you would see it place at high level tournaments and you don't.

You don't have to kill them all. I have to kill a path to your caster. And if you bubble wrap too hard, good, you won't be able to contest enough and I'll win on scenario. Because there are multiple win conditions a one dimensional list built not on winning but on trying to make your opponent lose will never do that well.

His plan is like selling on ebay. Sure you can ASK for $400 for your old Xbox 360, but nobody is going to actually buy it.

He can PLAN to make people time out, it's incredibly unlikely that it will actually work and based on evidence of the things that are placing at high end tournaments, it doesn't.

he sounds like a player who is new, thought "Oh hey this will work" and promptly got smashed.

I am getting the impression that you don't play WM/H competitively. That you may be new to it and you have read the rules & decided you don't like them without ever trying them. Give them a try for yourself, see how hard it is to actually run a list with the strategy of forcing a time out, you may end up loving it. I too thought I'd hate deathclock, but I don't. It took me about 3-4 games to get used to it and it's not suitable for new players, but I ended up liking it.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
When I was ate the LVO, I meet a guy who was running basically horde trenchers. he said "My plan is to make them loose on deathclock, that they cant kill all my guys"
It honestly sounds like, rather than strategy, winning a game because my opponents dice are spinning, I won on a technacality

Wait, what? "I'm going to run a massive army, taking forever to activate and place all my clouds, that actually prevents people from making attacks against it so their turn is quicker, in order to make them run out of time before I do?" How is THAT a plan?

Exactly, it's not a very good plan.

That plan would even fail in timed rounds. Your timer would go off before you even got to do anything. Horrible plan. My guess is it worked against him and he/she lost more games because the clock ran out on them

I had a question on a Kraken I painted up



I added numerous extra tentacles/extra arms - would this still be legal (He has more then the base two claws)

Would the opponent not "Know" that he only has the two melee tentacle weapons? I've not had this issue yet, not has my friend who uses it.

Also the angle of the main cannon is pointed to one side - would this cause any issue at a much larger event then a local steamroller? (this has caused players to misjudge the facing of the Kraken) - even with the base edges clearly marked out.

Note: I only have that picture off my mobile link / you can see the edge of the base is painted a near solid color to show the facing. I might have other pictures at my home office




This Slayer Jack (On the far left) was previously illegal due to the legs - would it be correct now? If it was cleared armed as a slayer and still uses Cryx/PP Parts? it has to correct Arms/Head/Upper Body.

Thanks Dakka

The slayer would be fine. As far as the kraken goes it may depend on the TO but personally I think you could say the extra "arms" are really legs. I personally wouldn't care myself.

 Stevefamine wrote:


Snip

The Kraken is probably fine as long as you argue that the extra arms are legs. My standard advice is run all conversions by the TO at the start just to be safe, but I'd allow it.

Regarding the Kraken's facing, if people are having a hard time figuring out where his arcs are, it MIGHT be beneficial for you to redraw them just to avoid any arguments. When I do my facing indicators, if there is any ambiguity I take the model to somebody I know, clean of any facing markers, and ask THEM to indicate where they think the markings should go. Sometimes when you work on a project for a long time something that seems obvious or straight-forward to you actually isn't, and getting a second set of eyes on something can help clear up any potential obscureness.

Regarding the Slayer, I can't quite get enough detail from the picture shown, but if the legs were the only issue before it should be fine.

I'm sitting down now to turn a Mariner I just bought into a Nomad. Give it the big sword and tiny shield. Iz gunna be good.

And here's the finished product. My Lleallese Resistance was bargain shopping when they found this thing. A Mariner converted into a Nomad.

That looks awesome. The mariner has always had a great look to it IMO, and now you can use one as something slightly more utilitarian

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:
That looks awesome. The mariner has always had a great look to it IMO, and now you can use one as something slightly more utilitarian

Exactly. I've always LOVED the Mariner, but it was just so outclassed. This way I can use it and not feel bad.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:
That looks awesome. The mariner has always had a great look to it IMO, and now you can use one as something slightly more utilitarian

Exactly. I've always LOVED the Mariner, but it was just so outclassed. This way I can use it and not feel bad.

Well, I still use mine, I can't deny how much I love that model, but it's really not the best option generally, which is sad. That and the Freebooter look great, I just wish they were a little better

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:
That looks awesome. The mariner has always had a great look to it IMO, and now you can use one as something slightly more utilitarian

Exactly. I've always LOVED the Mariner, but it was just so outclassed. This way I can use it and not feel bad.

Well, I still use mine, I can't deny how much I love that model, but it's really not the best option generally, which is sad. That and the Freebooter look great, I just wish they were a little better

I'll be getting the Freebooter next. I won't alter it and use as is. I'll get a few more Buccaners and Devil Dogs to knock stuff down. (and cross my fingers)

I really love the Freebooter, but I've found it's a little weaker than I would generally like, but it is really good for throwing enemy models, but still, having two Pow14 cargo clamp attacks, which is nice to have. But it looks awesome at the very least, but YMMV, I feel like trying to use a different caster would help, or might try some different Jack Marshals.

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:
I really love the Freebooter, but I've found it's a little weaker than I would generally like, but it is really good for throwing enemy models, but still, having two Pow14 cargo clamp attacks, which is nice to have. But it looks awesome at the very least, but YMMV, I feel like trying to use a different caster would help, or might try some different Jack Marshals.

That's why I'm hoping for plenty of knock down to make the use of their extra attack dice against knocked down opponents. It's not a very good tactic, but I'm determined to make it work.
Next conversion project...Father Lucant using Motenbra. Kind of going to make a good version of Motenbra if she never went apostate. (Mixing the two kits when I get them.)

The Devil Dogs do seem like the best option for them really, well, probably going to need to pick them up. Been looking for a reason to pick them up honestly. I have had half decent luck using the Freebooter with Rutger Shaw actually, his Drive Reroll is actually not a bad one for it

So, is it ok to permanently glue on my Silverline Stormguard backpacks and still use them as normal Stormguard? What about the different leader weapons?