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gudtymer wrote:
Ive been looking into the armies of 40k and wanting to get into the game but conflicted on the various opinions on 40k. Is 40k's balance (based on the current edition which i belive is 7th) so bad to a point where it is unplayable or is all the voiced opinions of its unbalance subjective banter? Appreciate the communities input.

If you're playing in close knit groups with lots of self imposed restrictions (explicit or implicit), it can work...mostly.

If you're playing pickup games, competitive events, or with large playgroups that have a wide variety of preferences, or simply directly as the rulebook describes it, the game is probably the least functional and balanced that it has ever been, and really is something of a disaster.



Crimson Devil said it best.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
7th edition 40k is a lot like BDSM these days. Only play with people you know and develop a safe word for when things get too intense. And It doesn't hurt to be a sadist or masochist as well.

 Runic wrote:

gudtymer wrote:
Ive been looking into the armies of 40k and wanting to get into the game but conflicted on the various opinions on 40k. Is 40k's balance (based on the current edition which i belive is 7th) so bad to a point where it is unplayable or is all the voiced opinions of its unbalance subjective banter? Appreciate the communities input.

40K is very playable. Anyone saying otherwise is unable to think objectively. Therefore you should call it "biased and unrealistic banter" instead of "subjective."

The game is technically playable, but not much fun if you're expecting a game with a fair chance of winning and clear rules.

40k is similar to a role-playing game, in that all participants have to be coming to the table with similar expectations. Amoung friends or in friendly groups, 40k is a blast.

No other game does this scale of combat as well ( though the rules are not particularly well-written). The lore is excellent, the models are cool, and there's a faction for exactly how you want to play.

The tournament scene, however, is just nasty. Avoid at all costs if you value your sanity or sense of enjoying tabletop games.

 Runic wrote:

gudtymer wrote:
Ive been looking into the armies of 40k and wanting to get into the game but conflicted on the various opinions on 40k. Is 40k's balance (based on the current edition which i belive is 7th) so bad to a point where it is unplayable or is all the voiced opinions of its unbalance subjective banter? Appreciate the communities input.

40K is very playable. Anyone saying otherwise is unable to think objectively. Therefore you should call it "biased and unrealistic banter" instead of "subjective."

No, its not under all circumstances.
If you have a player group and the group has a clue how to play 40k, then it is playable.
In our group, we don't allow superheavies and unbound in pickup games.
Otherwise, I think its not.

As someone who came to 40k from Warmachine, I think one of the big things that drew me in was Maelstrom of War. Having random objectives I have to respond to on the fly seemed like a great idea to keep things fresh and interesting. Of course, what it actually seems to amount to is that my slow-moving gunline gets wrecked by people on bikes. ^^;

I think the fluff of 40k can be a selling point, but it can also turn people off. If you're not the kind of person who wants to be a space marine, for instance -- or if you're not allowed to 'cause you're a girl -- then like 9/10 of the lore, including the whole Horus Heresy, is just "meh." Plus, the players and authors can't seem to agree on whether the grimdark is satire or not, and there is a huge amount of Moral Dissonance when someone from the real world encounters people who call Space Nazi Soldiers the good guys.

("But they are because what they do is justified!" Yeah, no. Not going there.)

Probably the best thing to do is just show them the models and see which ones they like. Or which colour of Space Marine armour they like, since those are like half of the models. There's a lot more variety lately than there used to be, with the new AdMech armies and Harlequins and stuff. Even the Tau helped bring new players in *raises hand*. I don't envy the person who has to explain to a Ret player that if she picks Eldar everyone will hate her, though. And think she just jumped on the bandwagon in order to Win At All Costs.

 Jewelfox wrote:
Even the Tau helped bring new players in *raises hand*.

And for a lot of people that apparently isn't a good thing. They'd rather that Tau never came to be and those of us who got into it because of them never bothered.

At this point I kinda wish they hadn't come up with Tau, honestly, since 40k has been nothing but a frustration and a disappointment. Oddly even emotional at times, causing stress in my life when I can't afford to deal with any more. Especially because of the cost, imagine spending thousands of dollars on models that everyone hates and then falling behind on bills, makes you wonder if you wouldn't have been better off finding a different hobby with people who aren't relentless fething dicks who only seek to ruin it for everyone else.

I hate this game, and I'm growing to hate the "community" for it more and more.

...so no, I don't think 40k is playable.

It is very playeble in community of about 10 people. But I have sheer terror attacks when I'm thinking about pick up games)

Anyway I'm still very pleased with the game and planing to play more.

 Reinokarite wrote:
It is very playeble in community of about 10 people. But I have sheer terror attacks when I'm thinking about pick up games)

Anyway I'm still very pleased with the game and planing to play more.

Indeed, in gaming groups it is still playable if all players agree to use a common rule set, like not playing superheavies or unbound lists.
But for pick-up games the situation is much different.

40k can be played , and the players can have fun, despite the rules and codex books GW sells for the game.

Any enjoyment from the 40k game is down to the players sorting out what they want to do, and agreeing to do it in the same way.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Jewelfox wrote:
Even the Tau helped bring new players in *raises hand*.

And for a lot of people that apparently isn't a good thing. They'd rather that Tau never came to be and those of us who got into it because of them never bothered.

At this point I kinda wish they hadn't come up with Tau, honestly, since 40k has been nothing but a frustration and a disappointment. Oddly even emotional at times, causing stress in my life when I can't afford to deal with any more. Especially because of the cost, imagine spending thousands of dollars on models that everyone hates and then falling behind on bills, makes you wonder if you wouldn't have been better off finding a different hobby with people who aren't relentless fething dicks who only seek to ruin it for everyone else.

I hate this game, and I'm growing to hate the "community" for it more and more.

...so no, I don't think 40k is playable.

You should probably lighten up on your participation in 40k forums. I find that almost all the 40k negativity is from online. Anytime our gaming group is together, or even at an out of town big tourney, it's all fun times, good vibes, and cool people.

With regards to the original question, we play every other week (down from twice a week two decades ago), because we're all a bit older and have families now, and our schedules just don't allow us to game as much as we'd like. But 40k is eminently playable and a lot of fun in the broadest sense.

The Post-2015 codex releases are all quite well balanced to each other, and most of the remaining Pre-2015 codexes are not terrible balanced with each other. But the Pre- and Post-2015 codex armies have a very wide gap in terms of both power level and flexibility. It doesn't mean you can't win with Orks or Grey Knights, because that happens all the time. The problem is, you're much more limited in what you can field in the Pre-Necron era if you want to be competitive. Post-Necron books just have tons more flexibility, especially if your army's purpose is to be effective, but you don't need to fill every point with the absolutely most optimized unit.

To this point, I think Necron, Craftworld Eldar, Imperial Knights, Space Marines, Dark Angels, and Adeptus Mechanicus are all solid factions that allow for varied gameplaying styles with a large number of models.


@Sidstyler -- Whoa man, I think 40k is not for you. I can't even conceive of spending thousands of dollars on a game while falling behind on bills. That just sounds so unhealthy I'm sorry -- I'm not trying to judge, but I just can't imagine skipping things you NEED in life in order to buy any game, and then feeling good about it. Besides, if your only play partners are people who are looking to "ruin it for everyone else", I doubt there are many tabletop games that you could really just enjoy. I know I couldn't.

niv-mizzet wrote:
You should probably lighten up on your participation in 40k forums. I find that almost all the 40k negativity is from online. Anytime our gaming group is together, or even at an out of town big tourney, it's all fun times, good vibes, and cool people.

lol... tell me about it. You see that a lot in computer games too, though. Online, there is a HUGE amount of negativity, but in the game, the people who are playing it are just having a good time.

It is *extremely* rare for me to bump into someone at a real FLGS who has the type of vitriol that you see displayed online. People tend to be a lot more polite in real life, I think. Plus the store would toss them out at some point, LOL.

Summary:

Good to play with friends, RPG'ish wargame with sandbox elements.

Not good for "pick-up" games: playing strangers.

It looks really good and is certainly not lacking in detail.
If people are not overly competitive it will work fine, if not, the game breaks badly.

Good pickup games are chess and Warmahordes.
But 40k isn't.

I'm a chaos player and in my local meta, I'm 7/3. They aren't eldar great, but they are a local meta. You will be fine with whatever you want to play as long as you know who/what your opponents are. Your first tip is to get away from dakka.

 Vaktathi wrote:

gudtymer wrote:
Ive been looking into the armies of 40k and wanting to get into the game but conflicted on the various opinions on 40k. Is 40k's balance (based on the current edition which i belive is 7th) so bad to a point where it is unplayable or is all the voiced opinions of its unbalance subjective banter? Appreciate the communities input.

If you're playing in close knit groups with lots of self imposed restrictions (explicit or implicit), it can work...mostly.

If you're playing pickup games, competitive events, or with large playgroups that have a wide variety of preferences, or simply directly as the rulebook describes it, the game is probably the least functional and balanced that it has ever been, and really is something of a disaster.



Crimson Devil said it best.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
7th edition 40k is a lot like BDSM these days. Only play with people you know and develop a safe word for when things get too intense. And It doesn't hurt to be a sadist or masochist as well.

Exalted!

I hate to say it, but I think you really have to be trying to "Forge the Narrative (TM)"; I have a lot of fun playing with friends where we use scenarios based on list build, terrain setup etc. and we have agreed house rules to clear out some of the ambiguity or plain stupidness. And we're friends outside of 40k, so when someone loses it over a bad dice roll we can call them a ?@~*!, pass them a beer and get over it.

The thought of trying to play the rules as written with a total stranger? *shudders*

We're having a lot of fun with wh40k. Everything allowed.