WTF Moments in the AoS Rules

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**Buttlerthepug**

RiTides wrote:
Thanks for the writeup of your thoughts last page Salvage, and yeah... I was very open to this but everything I've seen has made me start looking elsewhere. Curious how the Darklands rulebook will look when it releases (hopefully this summer). But what to use all these chaos dwarfs for now...!? Of course that's always been a problem for long-suffering CD fans, it's just now more people will be joining in that conundrum.

I have high hopes for Darklands. A few friends and I went deep into to the game... I've got like 4 largish armies at this point. We've played it a few times with their Quickstart rules and so far have liked it, as it's a much more "realistic" feeling game. I definitely foresee us moving over to mainly that and Kings of War / 8th, since AOS is just horrendous.

**ahzek**

Hückleberry wrote:
ahzek wrote:
So, if I take twenty goblins and my opponent takes 21 chaos Knights I need to ensure I stop deploying really quickly or I'll never get the sudden death rule I'd need to stand even a remote chance of winning?

Obviously it wouldn't be as simple an army as that but it's still a bit pants

Who knows chaos knights and goblins both might need +4s to hit and +4s to wound. They could have all kinds of reasons fluff wise to buff the weaker units. From being corrupted by magics to being tougher for surviving the end times so far. for all we know in AoS goblins and chaos knights will have very similar stats on the warscrolls. Also with no strength modifiers (except for rend) to armor save who's to say that I don't get hot dice and have 3 goblins tank all your attacks that wounded? I just think people are getting crazy with all these assumptions based on 8th edition stats. Obviously its an entirely new game. Who is to say that the prosecutor warscroll(see above) is not the normal for all basic units from different armies?

That makes sense, though the examples I gave were just that, examples. I'd be surprised if the data scrolls make all things equal

**Kilkrazy**

Players won't want a game in which Sigmar on a magic armoured dragon mount has the same stats and in-game power as a Grot.

The bigger, newer and shinier your figure, the better stats it will have.

**locarno24**

The one thing I am wondering with the rules right now is how do we avoid our characters getting sniped? I don't think we have seen a footslogger character's warscroll yet. Maybe they can join units with certain keywords.

If it's anything like Lord of The Rings, nothing. They're just built like brick outbuildings, with many wounds and a good save.

I'll give it a try. I'm too intrigued by a starting setting which appears to be knorne vs asgard not to give it a closer look. And I've been proven wrong by underestimating games that I didn't think had much tactics to them before - Warhammer Diskwars, for example, is actually bloody good fun and has a lot more strategy to it than you think.

**The Shadow**

ahzek wrote:
Hückleberry wrote:
ahzek wrote:
So, if I take twenty goblins and my opponent takes 21 chaos Knights I need to ensure I stop deploying really quickly or I'll never get the sudden death rule I'd need to stand even a remote chance of winning?

Obviously it wouldn't be as simple an army as that but it's still a bit pants

Who knows chaos knights and goblins both might need +4s to hit and +4s to wound. They could have all kinds of reasons fluff wise to buff the weaker units. From being corrupted by magics to being tougher for surviving the end times so far. for all we know in AoS goblins and chaos knights will have very similar stats on the warscrolls. Also with no strength modifiers (except for rend) to armor save who's to say that I don't get hot dice and have 3 goblins tank all your attacks that wounded? I just think people are getting crazy with all these assumptions based on 8th edition stats. Obviously its an entirely new game. Who is to say that the prosecutor warscroll(see above) is not the normal for all basic units from different armies?

That makes sense, though the examples I gave were just that, examples. I'd be surprised if the data scrolls make all things equal

I too would be surprised. Obviously with no stats and, that I can see, weapon bonuses outside of special rules, things will be a lot more even but I still can't see a goblin standing up to a chaos knight - and rightly so. The only thing I can think of that GW could - and should - do to fix these potential discrepancies is with formations of multiple "horde" models and say that it only counts as one warscroll or something (so whereas one formation warscroll would be five chaos knights, and equivalent may be forty goblins), or by special rules which give bonuses to "horde" models with regards to model count bonuses or Sudden Death (whatever that is - I'm still not sure...)

**Korinov**

Avian wrote:So I thought I'd check out how the charges actually work, and it turns out that these two models are not within half an inch of each other. In order to make a legal charge, their bases would need over overlap (which is legal, BTW).

**Samurai_Eduh**

Korinov wrote:
Avian wrote:So I thought I'd check out how the charges actually work, and it turns out that these two models are not within half an inch of each other. In order to make a legal charge, their bases would need over overlap (which is legal, BTW).

This made my day.

There's so much fail in what that picture represents, I simply can't try to take this AoS gak seriously any longer.

**RiTides**

Samurai, many models don't fill out their bases, though... I'm thinking of my Hellcannons in particular... the idea that people would overlap models bases is just insane to me!

**Colehkxix**

Just noting: As you're supposed to measure from one model to another, 1 inch range weapons would mean that a model would have to be in base contact with another model.

Bearing that in mind, note that what would be 1 inch using the rules as written would be base contact, 2 inches would allow the 2nd row of a tightly packed formation to attack, and 3 inches would allow the 3rd row of a tightly packed formation to attack.

So make sure, if you use bases for measurement, not to give your guys extra range. Reduce the range of weapons accordingly.

But I'm sure you all know that already.

**The Shadow**

I think measuring from the feet is easiest. Most models' feet are in roughly the same place and it rules out any shenanigans from outstretched weapons and the like, whilst still fitting in with the AoS rules and any difference in bases. And if there's a situation where bases would have to overlap, I'd imagine you'd simply put them base to base and call it at that.

**Kilkrazy**

Measuring from the base is easiest. All of the bases are regular defined sizes.

**Haight**

Kilkrazy wrote:
Measuring from the base is easiest. All of the bases are regular defined sizes.

This.

Measuring model to model is patently ludicrous. It's a mini game design 101 no-no that how you model your mini should not have in game benefit or detriment aside from WYSIWYG weapons if the system calls for that. The justification where i put the mini on my base should not make it harder for my mini to be charged.

Also the entirety of the moving / charging / "when you are and are not in melee" / "when you can and cannot move due to proximity to enemy models" rules are just horsegak bad from a design point.

I really hope the 4 page rules are just a super dumbed down starter set, and there's a more fleshed out book coming. Doesn't need to be 150 pages, but it really needs to be more than 4.

**Kilkrazy**

Time will tell, I suppose. I don't think actually it is impossible to achieve a decent ruleset in four pages. Most of the problems with AOS are caused by bad design choices rather than lack of space.

If they added another couple of pages they could include Command and Control, and alternative activation systems, but I don't think GW care about adding tactical interest to the rules.

**welshhoppo**

Checking again.

Does the to hit and to wound stay exactly the same regardless of what they are hitting? Like 4+ to hit a goblin and still 4+ to hit a Lord?

**The Shadow**

welshhoppo wrote:
Checking again.

Does the to hit and to wound stay exactly the same regardless of what they are hitting? Like 4+ to hit a goblin and still 4+ to hit a Lord?

Looks that way. I'd imagine lots of models - especially tough, character models (and I'm thinking maybe Nurgle too?) - and weapons/armour will have special rules that give adverse to hit/wound modifiers on models attacking them.

**welshhoppo**

After looking at this game.

I can't play it in public and I can't play it with other people. You can eat other people's models, stab them and be forced not to kneel the game or you will lose.

**Rihgu**

welshhoppo wrote:
You can eat other people's models, stab them .

Which warscroll gives you permission for those? Haven't seen those yet

**Orock**

Looks at bases painstakingly made, which are super fragile, then imagines someone setting their big impressive metal model on top of it.

Nope, nope nope nope. Dropped. GW can eat it I am done. More money for corvus belli I guess.

**welshhoppo**

Someone said it in the news and rumours thread. They may be lying, but I could tell you.

I can say that, if you use Marius the mad count, you get bonuses for pretending to ride and talk to an invisible horse. If you use Konrad vin Carlson, you gain bonuses for talking to him, and even more if he talks back.

So he could be lying, but they actually fit in with the new rules.

**Rihgu**

welshhoppo wrote:
Someone said it in the news and rumours thread. They may be lying, but I could tell you.

I can say that, if you use Marius the mad count, you get bonuses for pretending to ride and talk to an invisible horse. If you use Konrad vin Carlson, you gain bonuses for talking to him, and even more if he talks back.

So he could be lying, but they actually fit in with the new rules.

I've seen those, yea. There's rules for generally hamming it up (if you wear a hood or win a staring contest, your Night Goblin boss gets bonuses, if you challenge your opponent all orcy-like, your orc general gets a bonus, if you grumble about the good old days, Dwarf Longbeards get bonuses) but none of them ever involve touching your opponents or their models that I have seen. Honestly, if they WERE doing that, you'd think the Giants ability where he puts an enemy in his pants would require you to actually put a model in your pants.

**RiTides**

Wait - you're being serious, those bonuses are an actual thing in the warscrolls for old units?

**welshhoppo**

Yup.

To use sigvald you need a mirror to look at whilst you roll his dice. And if you use Greasus, you can bribe your opponent.

**Rihgu**

If you roll a 13 on 2d6 with the Screaming Bell, you immediately win the game!

**welshhoppo**

From Nagash

HAnd oF dust
It is said that the touch of Nagash can wither and age any mortal, turning them to little more than a pile of dusty bones
in mere moments. Hand of Dust has a casting value of 8. If successfully cast, pick an enemy model within 3". Then, take a dice and hide it in one of your hands. Hold your hands in front of your opponent and ask them to pick one. If they pick the one holding the dice, their model dodges the attack. If not, the model is turned to dust and is slain!

And it doesn't say 2d6, it says two dice. Find some d20s and roll them.

**RiTides**

Oh my gosh they're serious. You can't make this stuff up!

SilverDevilfish wrote:
Elemental wrote:
RatBot wrote:
"Braying Warcry: Red-hot rage festers in
the savage minds of Wargors, their only
desire to rend and destroy. You can add 1
to all hit rolls made for a Wargor if, before
rolling the dice, you let loose a primal
warcry. Your warcry must use no actual
words, but angry grunts and raging snorts
are encouraged."

"Pride of the Reiksguard: Helborg’s
skill is as legendary as his moustache is
magnificent. You can re-roll any failed hit
rolls when attacking with the Runefang
so long as you have a bigger and more
impressive moustache than your opponent."

The Mad Count: Marius Leitdorf is an
exceptional swordsman, even if he is totally
insane. If, during your hero phase, you
pretend to ride an imaginary horse, you
can re-roll failed hit rolls for the Averland
Runefang until your next hero phase. If
you actually talk to your imaginary horse
you can re-roll failed wound rolls as well.

Imagine, just for a moment, that someone had posted those rules three months ago as rumours. What sort of reception do you think they'd have got?

People would be wondering if they were in one of Kid_Kyoto's threads.

**welshhoppo**

What is Kid_Kyoto is actually Tom Kirby......

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And my personal favourite.

And He Did Say ‘War’, and the World Did Tremble...: If Settra the Imperishable uses this ability, you must hold out your hand and utter ‘War’ in a supremely commanding tone. If you do, then until your next hero phase you can add 1 to all hit rolls for Death units in your army that are within 18" of Settra in the combat phase. If a Deathrattle unit is affected by this ability, you can also add 1 to their wound rolls in the combat phase. However, if Settra is your general, you must not kneel for any reason during the battle. If you do, even once, you immediately lose the battle. Settra does not kneel!

**RiTides**

Another gem:

SJM wrote:
Right I'm very confused... take this for example -

War Boar
Some Orc Warbosses ride to battle on War Boars; these models have Move 9" instead of 5" and gain the War Boar’s Tusks attack.

So obviously it is better to be mounted on a War boar, but as I understand it, there are no points.... so if your warboss is on a war boar he is better but is the same value as the Warboss on foot? Is there a down side to being on a Warboar? Or has this just made every Orc Warboss model not on a Warboar obsolete?

yea.... im very confused. help?

**welshhoppo**

That is correct.

Also, there is now no reason not to mount all your tomb kings on Sphinxes, because they gain more wounds, take less damage and deal more out.

**Bronzefists42**

This is just embarrassing.

The rules for Yu-Gi-Oh are more balanced and coherent.

**Los pollos hermanos**

The Shadow wrote:
I think measuring from the feet is easiest. Most models' feet are in roughly the same place

time to abuse that rule

Just try getting 1 half inch from that back foot.