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nosferatu1001 wrote:
"*Jump Units are not covered. "

So Jump Units do not have permission to be carried.

I have refuted it. I have permission to wound MCs, that is all I need to take action. You are confused as to how permissions and restrictions work in this game.

Again: you need permiwsison to be carried. Infantry has permission, but Jump Units do not. Therefore Jump Units may not be carried. Jumpt UNits DO EXIST, as the quoted rules prove.

Your argument, entire, is refuted. it has *exactly* the same validity as claiming a unit may assault having arrived from reserve, as long as it disembarked from an Assault Vehicle.

Would you please stop your chest beating about 'refuting'.

By stating that Jump Infantry do not have permission means you are stating that models need to have permission for both types to be affected by a rule instead of Jump Infantry following both rules for their respective types and being affected by both.

Furthermore, you do not have permission to take action against Monstrous Creatures since "A unit that contains at least one models with this special rule re-rolls To Wound rolls against Monstrous Creatures." By your own logic, where is the permission to affect Jump Units? There is none, you are simply hand waving away a valid counter argument.

Your argument is not without merit, though it is not the only reading of the rule. Furthermore, it makes Jump and Jet Pack type units immune to rules that affect their base types. Does a rule only affect Infantry? Due to your interpretation, it cannot affect Jump or Jet Pack Infantry. Does a rule only affect Jump Units? Due to your interpretation, it cannot affect Jump Infantry and Jump Monstrous Creatures.

Finally, if what you are really saying was the case, why would the rules spell out that Jump and Jet Pack Infantry cannot embark? The first statement is a blanket permission to all Infantry, which would include Jump and Jet Pack Infantry, while the embark permission to a restrictive statement to "only Infantry".

Nilok wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
"*Jump Units are not covered. "

So Jump Units do not have permission to be carried.

I have refuted it. I have permission to wound MCs, that is all I need to take action. You are confused as to how permissions and restrictions work in this game.

Again: you need permiwsison to be carried. Infantry has permission, but Jump Units do not. Therefore Jump Units may not be carried. Jumpt UNits DO EXIST, as the quoted rules prove.

Your argument, entire, is refuted. it has *exactly* the same validity as claiming a unit may assault having arrived from reserve, as long as it disembarked from an Assault Vehicle.

Would you please stop your chest beating about 'refuting'.

Nilok wrote:
You also have not refuted that your stance on the rule also states that Jump Monstrous Creatures are immune to rules that affect Monstrous Creatures, such as Monster Hunter, since it also does not mention the Jump type as well. I honestly don't want my Riptides to be immune to things like Bring it Down on top of their resilience.

Sorry, "my" chest beating? Hypocrite, much?

Nilok wrote:By stating that Jump Infantry do not have permission means you are stating that models need to have permission for both types to be affected by a rule instead of Jump Infantry following both rules for their respective types and being affected by both.

Do not put words into my mouth. I stated no such thing
I am stating that, in order for a Jump Unit to be Carried on a Transport, it must have Permisison in the Rules to do so.
Infantry have permission - not "blanket" permisison, JUST Infantry
Jump units - a defined unit in the rules, as has been posed ad nauseum, and you fail to recognise or simply handwave as somehow not being real - do not

Nilok wrote:Your argument is not without merit, though it is not the only reading of the rule.

It is the only reading of the rule consistent with how game permisisons operate.

nilok wrote:
Furthermore, it makes Jump and Jet Pack type units immune to rules that affect their base types. Does a rule only affect Infantry? Due to your interpretation, it cannot affect Jump or Jet Pack Infantry. Does a rule only affect Jump Units? Due to your interpretation, it cannot affect Jump Infantry and Jump Monstrous Creatures.

No, your "interpretation" is that they cannot be affected. The rules state otherwise.

nilok wrote:
Finally, if what you are really saying was the case, why would the rules spell out that Jump and Jet Pack Infantry cannot embark? The first statement is a blanket permission to all Infantry, which would include Jump and Jet Pack Infantry, while the embark permission to a restrictive statement to "only Infantry".

a) its a reminder, due to how English works
b) why do Storm Ravens then, apparently "usellessly", tell you that they can carry Jump Infantry?

Weight of evidence, including the entire game construction philoshopy, is against you.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Nilok wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
"*Jump Units are not covered. "

So Jump Units do not have permission to be carried.

I have refuted it. I have permission to wound MCs, that is all I need to take action. You are confused as to how permissions and restrictions work in this game.

Again: you need permiwsison to be carried. Infantry has permission, but Jump Units do not. Therefore Jump Units may not be carried. Jumpt UNits DO EXIST, as the quoted rules prove.

Your argument, entire, is refuted. it has *exactly* the same validity as claiming a unit may assault having arrived from reserve, as long as it disembarked from an Assault Vehicle.

Would you please stop your chest beating about 'refuting'.

Nilok wrote:
You also have not refuted that your stance on the rule also states that Jump Monstrous Creatures are immune to rules that affect Monstrous Creatures, such as Monster Hunter, since it also does not mention the Jump type as well. I honestly don't want my Riptides to be immune to things like Bring it Down on top of their resilience.

Sorry, "my" chest beating? Hypocrite, much?

My statement has nothing about showing off or trying to outmatch you, you have not addressed the counter argument I put forewords and instead you called me a hypocrite without basis.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Nilok wrote:By stating that Jump Infantry do not have permission means you are stating that models need to have permission for both types to be affected by a rule instead of Jump Infantry following both rules for their respective types and being affected by both.

Do not put words into my mouth. I stated no such thing
I am stating that, in order for a Jump Unit to be Carried on a Transport, it must have Permisison in the Rules to do so.
Infantry have permission - not "blanket" permisison, JUST Infantry
Jump units - a defined unit in the rules, as has been posed ad nauseum, and you fail to recognise or simply handwave as somehow not being real - do not

You stated your argument for how you think the rules work and I have applied it, following the same logic you proposed, to other rules in the book that only apply to one Unit Type when a model is told to follow both Unit Types. By expanding your argument to other similar or identical rules, I am attempting to show you why it has more unintended side effects and breaks other rules. I would ask that you explain in detail why you believe that one rule cannot grant permission while another rule can. If you cannot resolve that they both work the same way, then there must be a problem in the logic behind it.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Nilok wrote:Your argument is not without merit, though it is not the only reading of the rule.

It is the only reading of the rule consistent with how game permisisons operate.

If it truly was the only reading, we would not be having this thought exercise right now.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

nilok wrote:
Furthermore, it makes Jump and Jet Pack type units immune to rules that affect their base types. Does a rule only affect Infantry? Due to your interpretation, it cannot affect Jump or Jet Pack Infantry. Does a rule only affect Jump Units? Due to your interpretation, it cannot affect Jump Infantry and Jump Monstrous Creatures.

No, your "interpretation" is that they cannot be affected. The rules state otherwise.

I would agree the rules say otherwise, but not based on your rational and explanation. Again, I would ask that you review your argument and re-present as a solid whole.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

nilok wrote:
Finally, if what you are really saying was the case, why would the rules spell out that Jump and Jet Pack Infantry cannot embark? The first statement is a blanket permission to all Infantry, which would include Jump and Jet Pack Infantry, while the embark permission to a restrictive statement to "only Infantry".

a) its a reminder, due to how English works
b) why do Storm Ravens then, apparently "usellessly", tell you that they can carry Jump Infantry?

Weight of evidence, including the entire game construction philoshopy, is against you.

a) Then I ask, why is the reminder not used with "a single Infantry unit", which would include Jump Infantry, and instead "Only Infantry" which would restrict it to base infantry?
b) It could be argued that the Storm Raven rule is a reminder, however, it never grants them permission to embark, which is where Jump and Jet Pack Infantry are restricted.

Regardless, we both know is not how the indented RAI is meant to go, and this is also not HIWPI, as I have repeatedly stated. This is simply an examination of the reading the full extend of the rules and where they break down from Jump Infantry and Transports. No one should play the rules in such a way.

You said to stop "your chest beating" about refuting, when you are using the exact same phrases. It is hypocritical to ask another to stop when you are doing the same yourself (If I agree it is "chest beatin" - I dont, as it clearly isnt, Just correctly using words in English, that you are then applying emotional bias in to)

So no, I have every basis

Again, address the central argument, or I will not further attempt to engage, as it is not at all prooductoive

You are claiming, with zero rules basis, that Jump units have permission to be carried in a transport.

Show that permission, precisely. Page and graph.

This is now the 10th or so time that various posters have asked you to constrain your argument to this simple, single question, in various guises, so please, foer once, do so

Page and graph. No blocks of text unrelated to the subject, but page and graph

the consequences can be discussed later, and the error in your logic there determined. For now, FOCUS on this one point

 Ghaz wrote:
Where does it say that its only a 'Dedicated Transport'? It doesn't. It doesn't stop being a vehicle, or else we wouldn't have the rules telling us how it interacts with other units in the Shooting or Assault phase. It doesn't stop being a Transport, or else we wouldn't have rules for how friendly units interact with the dedicated transport. The rules say "... the only limitation of a dedicated transport..." and the only limitation that comes from being a dedicated transport is "... that only the unit that took the transport can start in it..." It doesn't remove limitations due to other reasons. You're position would make dedicated transports invulnerable and able to transport across the table at will as not being able to do so would be 'limitations'. So what are you using to decide not being able to carry Jump Infantry is a 'limitation' and not being invulnerable or unable to be anywhere on the table that you want it to be at isn't a 'limitation'?

Which does not follow what is said. You are changing the sentence, specifically adding the word additional or removing the word only. If it stated "the only additional limitation of a dedicated transport." or "the limitation of a dedicated transport." Then your reading would be correct but without that you are changing the sentence. Even taking into account the rest of the paragraph you cannot arrive to that reading via RAW only RAI. GW breaks it's own game on a regular basis and this is no exception, so don't say that it isn't what it says because it breaks the game. Please do not put words into my mouth. Be civil and read. I stated earlier their are no limitations and I meant it. A strict RAW reading makes any DT unreasonable as does stating that Praetorians cannot embark onto their DT. As absurd as it is, that is exactly what it states, that it can only carry the unit it was purchased for without any other limitation, that is what only means. The statement that it does not eliminate the other is disingenuous. You would need to prove that a blanket removal of denial is not an option in this game, which there is no way to prove as GW is basically god. They will do what they want and sometimes more.

So can someone explain to me why I shouldn't treat jump infantry as infantry in this case when my rulebook says the following:

'Jump' is not a classification in and of itself. Instead, you'll find it occurs before another category - commonly infantry, sometimes monstrous creatures and perhaps, rarely, other things.
Jump units therefore share two sets of rules, the Jump unit rules, and those of their base type.'

So Jump infantry abides by both the infantry rules and jump unit rules.
Nothing in the jump units rules prohibits you from embarking transports and nothing from transports says you can't transport a unit that is a jump unit, only that the model needs to be infantry, which a jump infantry unit is as stated in the quotation taken directly from the rulebook p.65. You cannot make a distinction between jump infantry and infantry here when the rulebook specifically tells you to treat it as both 'infantry' and 'jump unit'.

Nothing in the transport rules says you can ONLY be infantry, just that you at least need to be infantry.

DaPino wrote:
So can someone explain to me why I shouldn't treat jump infantry as infantry in this case when my rulebook says the following:

'Jump' is not a classification in and of itself. Instead, you'll find it occurs before another category - commonly infantry, sometimes monstrous creatures and perhaps, rarely, other things.
Jump units therefore share two sets of rules, the Jump unit rules, and those of their base type.'

So Jump infantry abides by both the infantry rules and jump unit rules.
Nothing in the jump units rules prohibits you from embarking transports and nothing from transports says you can't transport a unit that is a jump unit, only that the model needs to be infantry, which a jump infantry unit is as stated in the quotation taken directly from the rulebook p.65. You cannot make a distinction between jump infantry and infantry here when the rulebook specifically tells you to treat it as both 'infantry' and 'jump unit'.

Nothing in the transport rules says you can ONLY be infantry, just that you at least need to be infantry.

Quoted for truth. It really isn't difficult, the rules explicitly state that you follow infantry rules and jump. Jump is not a type that can exist on its own, and follows the 'base' rules of the unit type. Jump is more like an ability than a type.

DaPino wrote:
So can someone explain to me why I shouldn't treat jump infantry as infantry in this case when my rulebook says the following:

'Jump' is not a classification in and of itself. Instead, you'll find it occurs before another category - commonly infantry, sometimes monstrous creatures and perhaps, rarely, other things.
Jump units therefore share two sets of rules, the Jump unit rules, and those of their base type.'

So Jump infantry abides by both the infantry rules and jump unit rules.
Nothing in the jump units rules prohibits you from embarking transports and nothing from transports says you can't transport a unit that is a jump unit, only that the model needs to be infantry, which a jump infantry unit is as stated in the quotation taken directly from the rulebook p.65. You cannot make a distinction between jump infantry and infantry here when the rulebook specifically tells you to treat it as both 'infantry' and 'jump unit'.

Nothing in the transport rules says you can ONLY be infantry, just that you at least need to be infantry.

The rule that stops Jump units (and Jet Pack) infantry embarking is found in the Transport rules, (BRB, pg 80)

"Only Infantry models can embark upon transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise.

Didn't the previous thread on this fail to reach a conclusion?

 Frozocrone wrote:

DaPino wrote:
So can someone explain to me why I shouldn't treat jump infantry as infantry in this case when my rulebook says the following:

'Jump' is not a classification in and of itself. Instead, you'll find it occurs before another category - commonly infantry, sometimes monstrous creatures and perhaps, rarely, other things.
Jump units therefore share two sets of rules, the Jump unit rules, and those of their base type.'

So Jump infantry abides by both the infantry rules and jump unit rules.
Nothing in the jump units rules prohibits you from embarking transports and nothing from transports says you can't transport a unit that is a jump unit, only that the model needs to be infantry, which a jump infantry unit is as stated in the quotation taken directly from the rulebook p.65. You cannot make a distinction between jump infantry and infantry here when the rulebook specifically tells you to treat it as both 'infantry' and 'jump unit'.

Nothing in the transport rules says you can ONLY be infantry, just that you at least need to be infantry.

The rule that stops Jump units (and Jet Pack) infantry embarking is found in the Transport rules, (BRB, pg 80)

"Only Infantry models can embark upon transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise.

Didn't the previous thread on this fail to reach a conclusion?

Well this might actually be the first time in the history of me visiting Dakka that someone actually convinced me with logic instead of me giving up because of stupidity or having to agree to disagree. Props to you sir.

Gravmyr wrote:
Which does not follow what is said.

It is what is said. So do the dedicated transport rules allow them to teleport across the board and make them immune to enemy fire? Yes or no?

@ghaz: I'm starting to wonder of you are reading what I am posting or just stopping once you have decided you understand what I am saying. Reading test what does my post above say in it's entirety about limitations? Secondly you are arguing against a position which I have already stated is absurd, which you would know if you read my entire post.

You need to put forth support for why you think the sentence reads the way you do when I have shown that said reading is a change in the wording of the rule. You cannot do so, from what I can tell as your response has been basically yun huh. What other rule in the book uses the wording only when other things still apply?

 Frozocrone wrote:
The rule that stops Jump units (and Jet Pack) infantry embarking is found in the Transport rules, (BRB, pg 80)

"Only Infantry models can embark upon transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise.

Didn't the previous thread on this fail to reach a conclusion?

Sadly, it's the "embark" that people are using to ignore the restriction against Jump and Jet Pack Infantry.

See, Embarking may only be performed in the Movement Phase. So, they get around this by saying things like "just say they are embarked" or "the unit is deployed in to the Transport" or "The Transport is carrying their Dedicated unit".

Of course, the restriction in Embarking and Disembarking is only if the models "voluntarily embark or disembark". Is deployment or declaration of embark voluntary on the part of the models or not?

I don't see it addressed as such, so I guess this restriction isn't as solid as they thought it was.

Agree with dapino and plenty of others. Pretorians are jump inf. jump inf are both inf and jump units. Since pretorians are inf they can ride in dedicated transports. this tactic won't win any gts and is not op at all so I'm not worried about it going forward.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned, looking at the book last night night sythes are listed under "fast attack", or at least that is the symbol on their data sheet. Further they are only a transport, not a dedicated transport. I don't think this changes anything but it is worth noting.

Epartalis wrote:
Agree with dapino and plenty of others. Pretorians are jump inf. jump inf are both inf and jump units. Since pretorians are inf they can ride in dedicated transports. this tactic won't win any gts and is not op at all so I'm not worried about it going forward.

It's the Jump part of the Jump Infantry which disallows them to embark.

You can either choose to agree with some that being deployed in to a Transport is not embarking, but then it would mean they are not embarked when it comes time to get out, so they must wait until the ship crashes in order to get out, as disembarking is only done with embarked units.

Or, you can choose to agree with others that being deployed in to a Transport is embarking involuntarily, at which point, the Jump portion of their unit type would prevent them from doing so until the Night Scythe gains the ability to carry Jump Infantry once again.

Epartalis wrote:
One thing I haven't seen mentioned, looking at the book last night night sythes are listed under "fast attack", or at least that is the symbol on their data sheet. Further they are only a transport, not a dedicated transport. I don't think this changes anything but it is worth noting.

It's not really worth mentioning. The defining of a Dedicated Transport is listed in purchasing unit's unit entry list/datasheet (i.e. "May select a Night Scythe as a Dedicated Transport"). Space Marine Terminators (all kinds) and Crusader Squads have been doing it to Heavy Support Land Raiders for a long time now.

Epartalis wrote:
Agree with dapino and plenty of others. Pretorians are jump inf. jump inf are both inf and jump units. Since pretorians are inf they can ride in dedicated transports. this tactic won't win any gts and is not op at all so I'm not worried about it going forward.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned, looking at the book last night night sythes are listed under "fast attack", or at least that is the symbol on their data sheet. Further they are only a transport, not a dedicated transport. I don't think this changes anything but it is worth noting.

First, the transport rules are very clear that jump infantry units are not allowed to be inside a transport without a specific exception. I don't believe the DT rules, the night scythe's rules, or the pretorian rules provide a specific exception.

Many fast attack choices can be taken in an unbound army, or in a fast attack slot of a battle-forged army, but they can also be taken when a unit has the option to take them as a dedicated transport. If that happens they do not take up any FOC slots and their battlefirld role is what ever unit took it as a DT. So having a FA datasheet is not an issue.

I'm troubled that it not being a DT would not change anything for you. From what I read it seems you think jump infantry are allowed in any transport because they are infantry. This is troubling becouse the people you say you are agreeing with are saying that dedicated transports are special.

poster above me has it right,

jump infantry and jet infantry are specifcally banned from entering transports.

No specific permission to over ride this ban exists.


this is a clear cut case of people not reading properly when they have been quoted rules that explicitly state "no jet pack infantry allowed in transports" but then try to argue how their jet pack infantry get to ride in transports.

No amount of reasonable factual rules quotes will work when people are coming up with arguements like that.

DJGietzen and easysauce, no one is arguing that Jump Infantry can embark in transports - the argument is whether they can be carried by transports.

The following arguments for the pro side are as follows:
1. Jump Infantry follow the rules for Infantry. Infantry can be carried. Jump does not restrict that permission, ergo they can be carried.
2. The only limitation on Dedicated Transports is that the unit that bought it and any attached ICs are the only ones allowed to start the game embarked. Since the only limitation is what unit can start on board, not allowing a unit due to model count or due to unit type is imposing additional limitations which breaks the aforementioned rule.


Though if the pro side disagrees please correct me.

Wow, seven pages and still going strong. A sure sign of sloppy rules writing!

Having read through all of this I'm in the "not possible" camp. There is no predecence of allowing non-pure infantry units in transports unless clearly specified otherwise. There is no reason to believe that to be intent here.

On the other hand, they are Necrons, the other pet faction of GW, so maybe anything is possible.

No rules quotes to support my view. Since page 2 everything is just re-iteration anyway.

I will take solace in the fact that, when this is done and the thread gets locked, every player and TO i ever meet will still not allow it

 Happyjew wrote:
DJGietzen and easysauce, no one is arguing that Jump Infantry can embark in transports - the argument is whether they can be carried by transports.

The following arguments for the pro side are as follows:
1. Jump Infantry follow the rules for Infantry. Infantry can be carried. Jump does not restrict that permission, ergo they can be carried.
2. The only limitation on Dedicated Transports is that the unit that bought it and any attached ICs are the only ones allowed to start the game embarked. Since the only limitation is what unit can start on board, not allowing a unit due to model count or due to unit type is imposing additional limitations which breaks the aforementioned rule.


Though if the pro side disagrees please correct me.

1. Having a distinction between 'carried' models and 'embarked' models is dangerous and not in concert with the rest of the transport rules. For example...

Only Infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise... A unit that begins its Movement phase embarked upon a vehicle can disembark either before or after the vehicle has moved (including pivoting on the spot, etc) so long as the vehicle has not moved more than 6".

If we have a distinction between 'carried' models and 'embarked' models then a unit that is carried but not embarked will never be able to disembark.
2. This is not a specific override of the restrictions presented by the transport capacity rules. If we have 1 rule that food sold at McDonald's costs money, and a 2nd rule that states the only limitation on getting food in a drive through is that the order must be placed from a car, does not mean that orders placed in a McDonald's drive through will not cost money. Further more the DT rules do not allow anything to start the game embarked. The only limitation of a Dedicated Transport is that when it is deployed, it can only carry the unit it was selected with (plus any Independent Characters that have joined it). Again, if we assume that a carried unit is not an embarked unit then the units that begin the game carried in a DT will never have embarked and will never be able to disembark.

 DJGietzen wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
DJGietzen and easysauce, no one is arguing that Jump Infantry can embark in transports - the argument is whether they can be carried by transports.

The following arguments for the pro side are as follows:
1. Jump Infantry follow the rules for Infantry. Infantry can be carried. Jump does not restrict that permission, ergo they can be carried.
2. The only limitation on Dedicated Transports is that the unit that bought it and any attached ICs are the only ones allowed to start the game embarked. Since the only limitation is what unit can start on board, not allowing a unit due to model count or due to unit type is imposing additional limitations which breaks the aforementioned rule.


Though if the pro side disagrees please correct me.

1. Having a distinction between 'carried' models and 'embarked' models is dangerous and not in concert with the rest of the transport rules. For example...

Only Infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise... A unit that begins its Movement phase embarked upon a vehicle can disembark either before or after the vehicle has moved (including pivoting on the spot, etc) so long as the vehicle has not moved more than 6".

If we have a distinction between 'carried' models and 'embarked' models then a unit that is carried but not embarked will never be able to disembark.
2. This is not a specific override of the restrictions presented by the transport capacity rules. If we have 1 rule that food sold at McDonald's costs money, and a 2nd rule that states the only limitation on getting food in a drive through is that the order must be placed from a car, does not mean that orders placed in a McDonald's drive through will not cost money. Further more the DT rules do not allow anything to start the game embarked. The only limitation of a Dedicated Transport is that when it is deployed, it can only carry the unit it was selected with (plus any Independent Characters that have joined it). Again, if we assume that a carried unit is not an embarked unit then the units that begin the game carried in a DT will never have embarked and will never be able to disembark.

Carried models are embarked upon their transports. Embarking does not happen however during deployment. Embarking only happens during movement phase by definition.

During deployment when something is deployed in a transport it is embarked upon that transport without having to go through embarking. That is RAW.

Something cannot be embarked with out first embarking. That is english.

 DJGietzen wrote:
Something cannot be embarked with out first embarking. That is english.

Show in the rules. That is how games work.

My two points:

The rule says that jet/jump cannot embark unless otherwise specified.

I think having the night scythe as a dedicated transport is a good hint of specification that it can indeed use it as a dedicated transport. But this is HIWPI and not RAW.

I also wonder about the Hammerhead/transport variant that has two 'jet pack' drones attached to it. AFAIK they can disembark from their holding points, do they have specific permission to be embarked on their holding points? lol

 Whacked wrote:
I think having the night scythe as a dedicated transport is a good hint of specification that it can indeed use it as a dedicated transport.

Then why did they remove the wording from the 5th edition codex that clearly allowed it when they updated the codex?

 Whacked wrote:
My two points:

The rule says that jet/jump cannot embark unless otherwise specified.

I think having the night scythe as a dedicated transport is a good hint of specification that it can indeed use it as a dedicated transport. But this is HIWPI and not RAW.

I also wonder about the Hammerhead/transport variant that has two 'jet pack' drones attached to it. AFAIK they can disembark from their holding points, do they have specific permission to be embarked on their holding points? lol

I'm fairly, almost, possibly sure that there is a rule that allows drones to embark on a fishtank

Yes - the rules for Drones.

 Ghaz wrote:

 Whacked wrote:
I think having the night scythe as a dedicated transport is a good hint of specification that it can indeed use it as a dedicated transport.

Then why did they remove the wording from the 5th edition codex that clearly allowed it when they updated the codex?

Why keep it as a dedicated transport if it cannot be used as a dedicated transport? The RAI is obvious that the praetorians can ride along in the night scythe. The rules even make this intent clear.

col_impact wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Whacked wrote:
I think having the night scythe as a dedicated transport is a good hint of specification that it can indeed use it as a dedicated transport.

Then why did they remove the wording from the 5th edition codex that clearly allowed it when they updated the codex?

Why keep it as a dedicated transport if it cannot be used as a dedicated transport? The RAI is obvious that the praetorians can ride along in the night scythe. The rules even make this intent clear.

Spoiler:

The only limitation of a Dedicated Transport is that when it is deployed, it can
only carry the unit it was selected with (plus any Independent Characters that
have joined it).

Exactly what I was thinking as well Col.

It's good that the drones have their own rule too.

With the writers they have, who says that Writer A even realized that Writer B removed the option to carry Jump Infantry? Regardless, as the rules stand it cannot carry Jump Infantry and there is no clear indication of what their intentions were (which doesn't change the rules anyway).