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For those with a sense of Humor (But I really want #8 to happen)

Sloths of War proudly presents:

RUMORS ABOUT MANTIC GAMES and KINGS OF WAR 2

Below you will find confirmed, unconfirmed and rumored information about Mantic Games and their game, Kings of War 2. Some of which I just made up but you can't prove me wrong.

No one should get their knickers in a twist over 2nd edition, as the US president said "If you like your figures, you can keep your figures" (or something to that effect)

1. Their mascot is a bottle of glue with arms and googly eyes glued on it. (Confirmed- he is known as Fisty Glue Man and has his own Facebook page)

2. Mantic employs people to write fiction about things like Dwarven badger riders, sculpt figures of this silliness, draw illustrations of them, paint them, and plays games using them.
That a company of creative types would parody a competitor showas a lack of professionalism (Confirmed - Silliness reported from leaked images of a gold statue and direct quote from a staff insider code named "Orky")

3. They are jealous they don't have a snack bar for tourists (Rumored but possibly true but may be addressed if they have to move a third time. Unconfirmed rumor of a soda machine and candy machine(s) in the works).

4. Their Dwarves look like everybody else's Dwarves. They are short, have beards, use heavy armor, and wield axes (Confirmed they look like dwarves, but no mohawks or tattoos reported.

5. Their Elves don't look like others Elven figs, They look like Tolkien elves instead. (Confirmed they look different, reports include words like "tall and thin" and "lithe" (Confirmed, and an inside source's second cousin has told me that they catch an equal amount of abuse for making Dwarves look like others companies Dwarves as they do for making Elves that are different)

6. Their rules are not steeped in decades of fluff (Confirmed: All fluff is less than an decade old, and according to reliable sources, will not be blown up any time soon. There is a rumor that the borders may be changed based on an upcoming world campaign though)

7. No "Official Painting Guides" (Confirmed)

8. Nobody gets an advantage from dancing or looking serious while playing their games. (Confirmed, but rumor from a reliable source says that the "Renaldo the bard" figure will have special rules that involve glitter and "prancing about" in Dungeon Saga that confers some unspecified bonus and the ire of the other players cause glitter sucks)

9. Their CEO paints his own figures. We have proof he not only paints his own figures, he plays games with them. (Confirmed, we have his painting oath and pictures of him playing!!)

10. They don't use the word "proxy" and you cannot mock others for not using Mantic figures. You also don't have to use exactly the number of figures of stated, and only the stand size matters (Confirmed, they call it "multibasing")

11. They kidnapped Rick Priestly's dog and refused to release him until he wrote the forward to KoW 2 saying he likes the game. (Unconfirmed: A friend of a friend was talking to staff member at a booth somewhere and heard all about it, so unconfirmed but unlikely)

12. They release their new army lists for public testing for months and listen to the feedback. They reply to battle reports and the proposed changes on the Mantic Forums. They make changes based on player suggestions. This proves they cannot give the players fair and balanced rules and army list without outside help (Confirmed)

13. The winner of the US Tourney last year was a girl (Confirmed, but she would probably prefer to be called a woman)

Respectfully but with humor intended. Please do no spam me about what you dislike about me, Mantic Games, their figures, their kickstarters, their employee's, or their dogs.

I posted this with humor on a Mantic site to amuse, not offend.

That Lee Guy

That's a pretty good summary of Mantic Antics. If I were on a real computer, I'd post pics of Orky and Fisty Glue Man.

Oh, and Blaine is now an important part of the Mantic Mythos. What's your take on him?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:


Oh, and Blaine is now an important part of the Mantic Mythos. What's your take on him?

I Can confirm for a fact the truth about Blaine. He is...... (transmission terminated at source)

lees_shadow wrote:

4. Their Dwarves look like everybody else's Dwarves. They are short, have beards, use heavy armor, and wield axes (Confirmed they look like dwarves, but no mohawks or tattoos reported.

These guys, you mean? He's not exactly dripping with originality.



Actually one of their better dwarf models by far, in my opinion.

Until very recently, they also sold these for their berserkers:

 Azazelx wrote:

lees_shadow wrote:

4. Their Dwarves look like everybody else's Dwarves. They are short, have beards, use heavy armor, and wield axes (Confirmed they look like dwarves, but no mohawks or tattoos reported.

These guys, you mean? He's not exactly dripping with originality.



Actually one of their better dwarf models by far, in my opinion.

Until very recently, they also sold these for their berserkers:

Um, the "rumor" is true. Yes, that is Mantic's Berserker Lord (no Mohawk).

That regiment is an Avatars of War regiment, and that company is not Mantic and is actually a Spanish company.

5. Their Elves don't look like others Elven figs, They look like Tolkien elves instead. (Confirmed they look different, reports include words like "tall and thin" and "lithe"

Unconfirmed. They're about 28mm tall to the top of the head and about 1/3 - 1/2 the mass of a GW uruk-hai. Tolkien elves are not short, anorexic stick insects! (Heck, they may not even have pointy ears, which is still a more concrete feature of Tolkien elves than plate armour and ugg boots...)

 Azazelx wrote:

lees_shadow wrote:

4. Their Dwarves look like everybody else's Dwarves. They are short, have beards, use heavy armor, and wield axes (Confirmed they look like dwarves, but no mohawks or tattoos reported.

These guys, you mean? He's not exactly dripping with originality.


I like the fig as well and will ignore the error on the unit. . But the one eyed, bearskin wearing dwarf with the bear-head codpiece is about as original of a Berserker as you can get while still making him a dwarf with two axes and no armor. Just because someone painted a tatoo on the fig and gave it orange hair doesnt take away from the sculpts originality. . If i painted another companies goblins black with yellow highlights would they be night goblin clones? . I would have went with Celtic blue woad motiff myself. . Mantics Dwarven berserkers ride giant Badgers into battle. .

Original or stupid..?

Respectfully,
That Lee guy.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vermis wrote:

5. Their Elves don't look like others Elven figs, They look like Tolkien elves instead. (Confirmed they look different, reports include words like "tall and thin" and "lithe"

Unconfirmed. They're about 28mm tall to the top of the head and about 1/3 - 1/2 the mass of a GW uruk-hai. Tolkien elves are not short, anorexic stick insects! (Heck, they may not even have pointy ears, which is still a more concrete feature of Tolkien elves than plate armour and ugg boots...)

Looks like you got me there. So Mantic elves are not clones of GW elves nor are they stolen from Tolkien. .so they are an original concept that are to short and thin for your taste? . It's a fair cop. .

Respectfully,
That Lee guy

 Xyxox wrote:

Um, the "rumor" is true. Yes, that is Mantic's Berserker Lord (no Mohawk).
That regiment is an Avatars of War regiment, and that company is not Mantic and is actually a Spanish company.

I know all of these things. I was pointing out that he's painted as a (bald) Slayer down to his hair and tattoos. Did you miss where tattoos were mentioned? Or just cherrypick the mohawk part? Also pointing out that until recently, Mantic sold that AoW regiment as their Berserkers. Please do try and keep up. Less water carrying might help.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

lees_shadow wrote:

I like the fig as well and will ignore the error on the unit. . But the one eyed, bearskin wearing dwarf with the bear-head codpiece is about as original of a Berserker as you can get while still making him a dwarf with two axes and no armor. Just because someone painted a tatoo on the fig and gave it orange hair doesnt take away from the sculpts originality. . If i painted another companies goblins black with yellow highlights would they be night goblin clones? . I would have went with Celtic blue woad motiff myself. . Mantics Dwarven berserkers ride giant Badgers into battle. .

Original or stupid..?

My point is that the sculpt's not especially original. It's a GW-style Slayer, sans mohawk. It's painted as a slayer since it dates back to when KoW was a baby game and their main target market was simply selling cheaper models to WHFB players. There's nothing wrong with that, nor is there anything wrong with them attempting to move away from that and establish their own version of a Fantasy IP. It's just disingenuous and a bit annoying when people try to ignore their origins and pretend they're original - they're not - Mantic's Fantasy stuff is still 85% based on GW tropes which in turn are ripped off from everywhere. Which, like I said, is ok.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

lees_shadow wrote:

Looks like you got me there. So Mantic elves are not clones of GW elves nor are they stolen from Tolkien. .so they are an original concept that are to short and thin for your taste? . It's a fair cop. .

Of course they're "stolen from"/directly inspired by Tolkien (with a helping of Moorcock's Melniboneans) by way of GW. Again, it's ok to recognise that.

 Azazelx wrote:

Of course they're "stolen from"/directly inspired by Tolkien (with a helping of Moorcock's Melniboneans) by way of GW. Again, it's ok to recognise that.

Not even. The elf tropes in modern fantasy mostly come from Tolkien, but I'd say Mantic's have been thoroughly laundered with - as you say - Moorcock, DnD, Warhammer, and who knows what else, rather than being so 'direct'.

I see what you're saying, but the line for "our" fantasy high/wood/dark/blood/sea/drow/aelfar/bosmer/dalish elves of all types, (as opposed, to, say these guys)



has a line drawn straight to Tolkien with all of the others as speedbumps on the way there.

Fair enough, that's pretty much what I mean. The speedbumps shook things around a bit! But if anything, I'd guess the look of Mantic elves was conciously influenced by Tolkien in that they tried to avoid too much of that 'tradition', and make their elves different while still recognisably elves. (In the vein that WoW elves are different and recognisable by their big ol' donkey ears)

I got a bit ratty in my last couple of posts. I shouldn't have done that, sorry. But the point (no pun intended) is that Tolkien elves may not be recognisable or markedly inhuman by sheer physical dimensions or features, not even as much as (ironically?) looking like Star Trek vulcans. Reading through LotR, the Simarillion, even the book of Tolkien's letters (if you haven't guessed by now, I'm a fanboy) the most you get, how they're defined, is that they're 'humans +'. More 'advanced' or insightful in knowledge and 'technology'. Not entirely unlike Moorcock's Melniboneans in that regard, though with a somewhat different outlook. (No wonder they got mashed together in game settings) They're a bit tall, a bit less physically strong than some humans, and may have pointy ears, but the latter's never explicitly stated.

Other settings taking influence from Tolkien seemed to double-down on those physical characteristics, to make them more distinguishable from humans. As I said, I have the feeling that Mantic tried to make their elves even more inhuman and alien by applying those tropes to an even greater degree. That's fair enough. It seems to have misfired among many gamers (I know I wonder how they can fit internal organs or even bones in there, especially when you realise those plate harnesses must be adding a certain extra amount to their 'natural' frame), but I can't fault the apparent intent behind it.

 Vermis wrote:

5. Their Elves don't look like others Elven figs, They look like Tolkien elves instead. (Confirmed they look different, reports include words like "tall and thin" and "lithe"

Unconfirmed. They're about 28mm tall to the top of the head and about 1/3 - 1/2 the mass of a GW uruk-hai. Tolkien elves are not short, anorexic stick insects! (Heck, they may not even have pointy ears, which is still a more concrete feature of Tolkien elves than plate armour and ugg boots...)

I think TheAuldGrump got it right when he described them as fey. They have an otherworldly, inhuman look that fits better with the kinds of elves from The Dresden Files or Mercy Thompson. These are the kinds of elves you don't thank, and you never drink their punch.


As for the dwarfs, I really like the Babylonian Ram Man plastics. they are very different from other dwarfs, though, so I'll have to call them something slightly different, like "dawi" or, uh, "duardin". ...D'oh!

 Vermis wrote:

Other settings taking influence from Tolkien seemed to double-down on those physical characteristics, to make them more distinguishable from humans. As I said, I have the feeling that Mantic tried to make their elves even more inhuman and alien by applying those tropes to an even greater degree. That's fair enough. It seems to have misfired among many gamers (I know I wonder how they can fit internal organs or even bones in there, especially when you realise those plate harnesses must be adding a certain extra amount to their 'natural' frame), but I can't fault the apparent intent behind it.

I know of someone (online) who painted them as skintight leather, which kinda helps. And has some extra appeal to some, if you know what I mean.

But yes, I agree that everyone tinkers with their "unique take" on elves, dwarves, etc ever so slightly, they're still all pretty much close to the tropes. It takes something like Dark Eldar (nth generation "Drow/Dark Elves crossed with Hellraiser) to really get more than a few steps away from Tolkien. Blood Elves (WoW) and High Elves (WHFB) are pretty much just a palette swap with pointy eyebrows. Right down to the architecture.

The thing with Mantic is that they started as ex-GW employees making proxy models to the best of their ability fit in with the WHFB aesthetic. So they naturally wanted their things to fit in nicely with the existing things that they'd just been working on in Lenton.

Maybe because they are fey with half of themselves in the realm of fairies that is where the rest if them are. If you could see into both reals at one maybe the would fat.