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So, why was she at a school?
Maybe she decided to have children again?

Okay. So having totally HATED the previous season. (Except for Mummy on the Orient Express) I am finally starting to enjoy Doctor who again. It's FINALLY back to the Doctor being the main attraction. Last season focused way too much on Clara, and I'm glad this is her last season. Capaldi is great as the Doctor, and all the episodes I've seen have been really good (UNderwater stuff and second part of that, 1st episode and the one from 2 weeks ago with the vikings).

Keep up the good work! (I still hate Missy though)

 Compel wrote:
I found there was something really weird with this episode. Like the generally production and stuff. EG the sound felt off, the dialogue pacing seemed weird.

I agree totally with this, especially the first quarter or so of the episode where I could barely hear the dialogue because the music was so damn loud.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So, why was she at a school?
Maybe she decided to have children again?

That was her following Clara around, to show the Doctor "I'm watching you"

Couldn't make my mind up if I liked Maisie Williams. Not being a watcher of GoT is that how she always acts? I couldn't decide if she was acting in a very subtle manner or just not acting at all. It was like there were these flashes of brilliance and long periods of blank.

Maisie Williams is very young. She doesn't seem to have had any formal training. A lot of the best British actors get formal stage training (RADA, etc) and a lot of stage experience, as well as TV and film. The three techniques are very different.

I think Maisie Williams must be a natural actress who has been picking up technique through the stuff she has worked on, and perhaps needs more seasoning to achieve real stature. You often see this in young actors.

To be honest it is refreshing to see a female character who is not 'conventially beautiful'. She has a quirky, interesting face that has the potential to develop a lot of character.

I really don't think tonights episode is a good subject for a family TV show...

Funny, I thought it was impressively dark without overdoing it. There were definitely a lot of elements that one might not expect from DW, but every now and then I love an episode or two that do bring up some real issues, so long as they're handled well. Which bit in particular did you think was unsuitable?

Great script, great acting, great series of twists at the end, probably the best episode of the Capaldi run in my books. Can't remember if I mentioned it before, but I really do like the fact that this series is comprised of 2-part episodes. Gives things a lot more time to develop, and so far they've all used that time well, there's not been nearly as many unnecessary/tangential scenes this year as last.

Oh, and there's that hybrid thing again...

Personally, I just don't think that using imagery inspired by an active and real life apocalyptic death cult and then executing people (even if those people are in rubber suits), is appropriate for a family / childrens TV show.

I am honestly disgusted with the episode.

I don't understand what you are talking about. If you feel strongly perhaps you should complain to the BBC.

I felt it had a strong element of reality drawn from the trials and tribulations of immigrants and refugees in modern Europe, which seemed an interesting commentary on social inclusion.

Watched this weeks and thought it was truely dire and franklly offensive

Trying to cover actual deep issues and problems like Immigration, terorism, the brutal civil war in Syria, death cults like ISIL in a childish and frankly pathetic way.

Sad days...............

Maybe they should hire an actual writing team or not try and deal with such things

Morden's explained the problems more clearly than I could.

I'm not sure what was 'childish' about the way those themes were covered. I was actually quite impressed at how they were handled, not rammed down our throats but equally not so lightly trodden that you could ignore them.

I'd also add that covering 'real' issues is not new ground for new or old DW, from the themes of depression in the Van Gogh one a few years ago to fascism and genocide in Genesis of the Daleks.

Honestly, if they'd kept it at the whole migration / integration aspect, I'd have been more for it.

But the whole terrorism aspect of the show, especially the 'execution' scene of the "moderate" zygons, who mere minutes ago looked as young girls / kids. That's just not necessary in a family show

 Paradigm wrote:
I'm not sure what was 'childish' about the way those themes were covered. I was actually quite impressed at how they were handled, not rammed down our throats but equally not so lightly trodden that you could ignore them.

I'd also add that covering 'real' issues is not new ground for new or old DW, from the themes of depression in the Van Gogh one a few years ago to fascism and genocide in Genesis of the Daleks.

I have absolutely no objection to any show covering difficutl issues - this did not. It make some sweeping, shallow and meaningless statements - likely using the present serious world problems as a obvious and frankly cynical way to try and generate interest and publicity. I am sure they would have made the plane be shot down over Egypt if they had filmed it later - just to make them "seem" relevent and right on.

There was no actual adressing or real discuson of the issues - everything they did was on the same level as "drugs are bad , m'kay" except without the ironic element. If they truely believe the shallow crap they were spouting on the show its no wonder the world is in such a sorry state.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
I'm not sure what was 'childish' about the way those themes were covered. I was actually quite impressed at how they were handled, not rammed down our throats but equally not so lightly trodden that you could ignore them.

I'd also add that covering 'real' issues is not new ground for new or old DW, from the themes of depression in the Van Gogh one a few years ago to fascism and genocide in Genesis of the Daleks.

I have absolutely no objection to any show covering difficutl issues - this did not. It make some sweeping, shallow and meaningless statements - likely using the present serious world problems as a obvious and frankly cynical way to try and generate interest and publicity. I am sure they would have made the plane be shot down over Egypt if they had filmed it later - just to make them "seem" relevent and right on.

There was no actual adressing or real discuson of the issues - everything they did was on the same level as "drugs are bad , m'kay" except without the ironic element. If they truely believe the shallow crap they were spouting on the show its no wonder the world is in such a sorry state.

I agree with Mr Morden
They were not covering real world issues. They were poking massive great big holes into the war on terror. The screenwriter was clearly just trying to project his opinion of world events without trying to present any balance and it was just cringeworthy. And what was with the storming of the church? Oh lets stand outside firing our weapons letting them know we are here! WTFF!! For me it was THE worst Dr Who episode I have ever watched.

You do realise it's a science fiction programme, not an episode of Panaroma.

I don't think I really cared for how they wrapped the Zygons with current events, but I did like the episode (2 part stories work so well with Capaldi's Doctor). I'm curious if any other episodes will have been started by Missy's actions. She killed Osgood and set this stuff off, she's got Daleks (presumably) in her pocket, and she controlled a whole sect of Cybermen. With how Michelle Gomez talked about this season at ComicCon, I'm betting she'll have her hands in a lot of groups/events coming up (as long as the Silence story line doesn't get dredged up again, though what's her face from the Mainframe would be cool to see).

Also, the final 2 episodes are called Heaven Sent and Hell Bent. I'm curious if the cat people will return, as their plot might have been a portal to hell.

I'm assuming the two final episodes will again feature Missy, given the 'Heaven' thing from last year. Really hoping it's just her vs The Doctor, though, no Cybermen or Daleks to get in the way. The will be the true test of whether she's worth of the title of The Master.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
You do realise it's a science fiction programme, not an episode of Panaroma.

Indeed, and given the how long ago this was probably made and the fact that migration to the UK has been a problem for nearly 2 decades doesn't really seem like the BBC is tapping into and particularly current zeitgeist. If they had drowning Zygon children in the Channel those chaps might have a point.

This episode was intriguing though and worked for me, aside from the terrible church scene and UNITs predilection for having unconvincing middle aged women seeming in all commanding roles. All in all I find UNIT a bit disappoint whenever they are in Dr Who these days.

I have been watching some of the John Pertwee episodes (Terror of the Autons) on Horror and at least in those days the would shot their guns and lob the occasional grenade before dying in droves, these days they just seem to dress like US cops that have gone OTT on the Tacti-Cool gear because the kids from the local estate are giving them some agro.

If they're going to use UNIT then the damn well should be kitted out with some SLR's, GPMG's, millions of grenades and a roister-doyster Brigadier to call in some effective Airstrikes!

I'm not sure if I know how to phrase this, but is anyone slightly relieved that the Doctor is a little more transparent about liking people this season?
I thought it was great that we'd gone from pet-time lord to the cold mad feary Doctor, but I did wonder if we then had a disconnect in understanding for children. Eccentricity and the distracted lack of understanding (play acted or serious) isn't the same as outright coldness occasionally surfacing. I don't think he should be cuddly, but I do always think that he should be understandably approachable to young kids.
A little like how you want a kid to know they can approach a cop if lost.
I did understand the use of it, but with it being a family show, I wondered whether kids picked up on that sensation or not.

 notprop wrote:
Indeed, and given the how long ago this was probably made ...

I think that a good part of this season's filming was possibly completed as far back as early December, to give an idea. Can't pretend I know which, just that they had finished filming in the TARDIS and opened it (VERY briefly) to public tours.
They couldn't have allowed that if there was a chance it would damage anything or dick with continuity. Not-so-stealth brag that I've been in there (no touching, sadly).

So this is an uncomfortable and coincidental direct comparison with current events, and if course the current crisis did not appear overnight. But they could not have guessed nearly a year ago, that things would have escalated to this level. I too felt strange about watching it.
I wonder if they will receive complaints?

 Kilkrazy wrote:
You do realise it's a science fiction programme, not an episode of Panaroma.

So maybe they should do a scif-fi program and not do things that are obvious way above their levels of intelligence or comprehension

I saw a bunch of blobby shape-shifting aliens disintegrating people by electric blasts from their fingertips, or putting them in pods. It looked pretty much like SF to me.

But the blobs turned people into piles of human hair and migrants have human hair too, so you know...OUTRAGE!

Next inevitable step: The BBC is Institutionally Racist!

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
You do realise it's a science fiction programme, not an episode of Panaroma.

So maybe they should do a scif-fi program and not do things that are obvious way above their levels of intelligence or comprehension

Look back at the Pertwee stories, and the political digs they were getting in.
Coincidentally, lots of them involved UNIT.

I liked the Zygon Inversion, especially

But one thing bugs me. When did Clara move back to the council estate? In Last Christmas she's shown living in a house, and now she's back in her old flat?

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I saw a bunch of blobby shape-shifting aliens disintegrating people by electric blasts from their fingertips, or putting them in pods. It looked pretty much like SF to me.

As I thought I made absoluetly clear I had no issue with the sci-fi elements - although as usual the plot holes were more evident than the actual plot.....

its the pathetic attemts at commentry on actual issues that I (and it seems others) found offensive.

Maybe that was her parents house, possibly?

Personally, this weeks episode irritated me less. With the exception of the grocery store scene, it didn't feel quite so blatant.

Even the grocery store was sufficiently contextual at least.

It looks like next week we are going back to that flipping space station again from Ecclestons time.

 statu wrote:
I liked the Zygon Inversion, especially

Spoiler:

the brilliant speech from the Doctor in the Black Archive

Yeah, that scene was all kinds of epic. Capaldi's Doctor really hasn't been given enough opportunities in the scripts to go full badass and totally capture the scene just by talking, but when he does get that chance, it is so very awesome. I still feel he's lacking a signature theme like Tennant and Smith had, though, that would have really complemented that scene.

Wait, When has recent Doctor Who been "A Kids Shot" Im sure alot of what they has done isnt kid friendly. Like the pig people.
Anyway. Anyone feeling like this feels like less than the doctor this season?
The Tardis has barely shown up at all the only time it was used was the 3rd episode really. And no Screwdriver :(
Also, the Zygon uprising has happened 15 times so far? You think the doctor after the 6th will have a more permanent solution.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Anyway. Anyone feeling like this feels like less than the doctor this season?
The Tardis has barely shown up at all the only time it was used was the 3rd episode really. And no Screwdriver :(

Which is great. Deus Ex TARIDS/Sonic was getting very, very old, so the fact they're changing it up can only be a good thing. It's hardly new territory, either; Dr 3 did several series without a TARDIS just working at contemporary unit, and Drs 1 and 5 never used a screwdriver at all! 10 and particularly 11 overused them, so I like the fact that 12 isn't.

Also, the Zygon uprising has happened 15 times so far? You think the doctor after the 6th will have a more permanent solution.

I think he meant that conversation has happened 15 times in that room, not that there have been 15 attempted Zygon revolutions in the space of 2 years...

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/11/08/will-the-doctor-be-the-judge-of-time-spoilers/


does kind of make sense.