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A shame. It's a decent looking model. I hope they keep it available.

 Azazelx wrote:

 Daedleh wrote:
There'll be tighter official guidelines released with the first FAQ. The rules regarding multibasing in the rulebook say:

You might even end up with a little more or
less than the correct number of models on
the multibase – this is fine, but it must be
reasonably close to the correct amount, so
that there is no chance of misleading your
opponents in regards to the real size of the
unit.

We've seen a few examples crop up lately that have some members of the community scratching their heads over, so Mantic will be issuing their official guidelines for events. People are free to do what they want in friendly games, but for events there'll be a minimum basing standard in just the same way as a minimum painting standard. The debate is just how to word it so that those taking large counts-as models aren't excluded.

infinite_array has nothing to worry about with his unit sizes.

What about Regiments/Hordes that look like this? - Which is my preferred style of basing: 25mm rounds filling a correctly-sized movement tray (as much as possible). It's not "75&" or "80%" It's 3/5 = 60%

Looks full to me which i figure is what they want. Personally im gonna use a Varghulf and two "handlers" with chains for a Werewolf proxy. I mean i have it laying about so i feel i need to use it. Also what is the basing footprint on the Zombie Dragon? cuz i wanna know if my Terrorgheist will work.

Zombie Dragon is a Monster, so at least 50x50. The Dungeon Saga Dragon is on a 75x75 base, so I'd assume that the eventual Zombie Dragon will be on a similar base.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Zombie Dragon is a Monster, so at least 50x50. The Dungeon Saga Dragon is on a 75x75 base, so I'd assume that the eventual Zombie Dragon will be on a similar base.

Whelp, my Terrorgheist is on about 100x150 so its kinda big.

They're fine with monsters being on larger bases as needed, though.

 Azazelx wrote:
They're fine with monsters being on larger bases as needed, though.

Oh thank god, i have two of those and i totally wanted to use them

All good. They even specifically state the following:

Exceptional Base Sizes
You may need a wider or deeper base for exceptionally large heroes, monsters or war engines – in such rare cases, use the smallest base that you can fit your model on.

What about models based on 30mm round bases? They have a rather inconvenient size for being ranked up.

What fantasy game uses 30mm rounds?

No idea about fantasy but several historical games are quite relaxed about based and those 30mm lipped bases are popular for appearance. Since it's mostly historicals here, KoM look like my best chance at an opponent.

 durecellrabbit wrote:
What about models based on 30mm round bases? They have a rather inconvenient size for being ranked up.

You could place them on unit trays like the LotR models shown earlier in the thread (preferably filling and basing the tray around where the bases will be).
It would be pretty few models in the small units though perhaps too few to look good if they represent models normally on 20mm square bases.
3 models instead of 10 on a 100x40mm tray, 8 models instead of 20 on a 100x80mm

 infinite_array wrote:
Since the main metric of units is base sizes, you can change the actual numbers of the minis on the base.

My cavalry have 4 minis per troop base. My spearmen have 8 on a troops base, and my foot guard have 7.

A rather vocal minority demanded that Mantic make a statement on "acceptable miniature count" for units.

Mantic's "suggestion" was at least 2/3rd but that was not good enough.

Message boards filled up, there was wailing and gnashing of teeth and demands for answers. So Mantic made a statement.

For Mantic tournaments (and only Mantic tournaments, and not even for this years Clash of Kings) the MINIMUM model count will be 1 less than the next unit size down (rounded up) or 1/2 +1 for all units except Legions (again rounded up)

So for Mantic sponsored events (they care not what you do within the privacy of your own home or FLGS)

The count shall be:
Suggested
models
1 - Minimum models 1 (doh!)
3 - Minimum models 2
5 - Minimum models 3
10 - Minimum models 6
20 - Minimum models 11
40 - Minimum models 21
60 - Minimum models 41
120 Minimum models (just kidding, nothing is 120 models)

Respectfully,
That Lee guy

I don't disagree with their ruling, but that it needed to be made is why we can't have nice things.

KoW does seem to attract more than its fair share of cheapskates.

lees_shadow wrote:
120 Minimum models (just kidding, nothing is 120 models)

Yet.........

 lord_blackfang wrote:
KoW does seem to attract more than its fair share of cheapskates.

Heh - some of the people that I know that have been doing dioramic bases have actually spent more in spite of having fewer miniatures. (And certainly spent more time on it.)

The Auld Grump

Well. Damn. Guess I have no legal skeleton archer units anymore, then. Still, it's not unreasonable and with this sort of scenic base there was always the risk.

 Bolognesus wrote:

Well. Damn. Guess I have no legal skeleton archer units anymore, then. Still, it's not unreasonable and with this sort of scenic base there was always the risk.

I'd just add a couple of dead skellies slumped over the stakes. Nothing says they have to be 'alive' models.

Oh right, one of those 'rising out of the ground' skellies on each sprue out of the water in front. Thanks!

And if they'd had to be 'alive' models I'm pretty sure most of my undead army would have been well and truly fethed, but let's not go there

I speak only for myself here but I think the intent is to set a boundary where organisers can take action against people they feel are taking the mickey, rather than have people go round and count the based models on each unit a drag people off for waterboarding.

I believe the main aim from Mantics perspective (this was being discussed before the meltdowns started occurring) was preserving the look and feel of mass battle regimental warfare.

What made me laugh was the people decrying that we had to have rules in the first place and why people can't just be reasonable, then when the rules first came out they were the ones looking for loopholes ("oh I can just put 10 gravestones on my base to count as models").

 Daedleh wrote:
I believe the main aim from Mantics perspective (this was being discussed before the meltdowns started occurring) was preserving the look and feel of mass battle regimental warfare.

What made me laugh was the people decrying that we had to have rules in the first place and why people can't just be reasonable, then when the rules first came out they were the ones looking for loopholes ("oh I can just put 10 gravestones on my base to count as models").

Hey, done right, that can actually look good. (One of my favorite dioramic bases has skeletal gravediggers, a bunch of stones and sunken graves, one skeleton crawling out of a freshly opened grave, and another skeleton eating a sandwich while seated on a stone.)

The Auld Grump - they must be union skellies.

It can look good on display, but it rarely makes sense as something that moves around a battlefield and fights stuff.

Please remember this is for Mantic tournaments only!!!

With no "winning" item combinations or incorrectly pointed "must have" models it seems the need to bitch is being expressed in demanding a "ruling"

My skeleton archers will not be legal either as I have made coffin-lid pavises for them to be behind like you have done with the stakes. But they look good, fill out the base, and I don't expect to ever get questioned about them.

At the end of the day it is all about enjoying a well written and tight rule set with people who also made the effort to meet you halfway with their painting and figures.

Mantic gets beat up for copying GW, then gets beat up because the guys coming over from WHFB don't have a 1:1 direct army list conversion for some of the more esoteric GW figures (Where is my cauldron of blood? Gyrocopter? Corpse cart?)

We are still waiting for the complaint that the Mantica world is not "dark enough" since the world is not on the brink of disaster (and not enough skulls)

Respectfully,
That Lee guy

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
KoW does seem to attract more than its fair share of cheapskates.

Heh - some of the people that I know that have been doing dioramic bases have actually spent more in spite of having fewer miniatures. (And certainly spent more time on it.)

The Auld Grump

Tell me about it... my Dark Elf army uses Gamezone Dark Elves with Mierce Kthones Gorgonares as unit fillers!

lees_shadow wrote:
We are still waiting for the complaint that the Mantica world is not "dark enough" since the world is not on the brink of disaster (and not enough skulls)

I complained that a unit name was "too comedy" today, does that count?

lees_shadow wrote:
Please remember this is for Mantic tournaments only!!!

With no "winning" item combinations or incorrectly pointed "must have" models it seems the need to bitch is being expressed in demanding a "ruling"

My skeleton archers will not be legal either as I have made coffin-lid pavises for them to be behind like you have done with the stakes. But they look good, fill out the base, and I don't expect to ever get questioned about them.

At the end of the day it is all about enjoying a well written and tight rule set with people who also made the effort to meet you halfway with their painting and figures.

Mantic gets beat up for copying GW, then gets beat up because the guys coming over from WHFB don't have a 1:1 direct army list conversion for some of the more esoteric GW figures (Where is my cauldron of blood? Gyrocopter? Corpse cart?)

We are still waiting for the complaint that the Mantica world is not "dark enough" since the world is not on the brink of disaster (and not enough skulls)

Respectfully,
That Lee guy

While i wasnt expecting a 1:1 army conversion, i would like a Corpse Cart thing Though thats mostly cuz i think it looks sweet and pretty much EVERY VC player has a few. Im just glad my Terroghiests are gonna get some use, i was worried for a bit, then isaw Zombie Dragons and Winged Wyrms and i felt better.

 Grimmor wrote:

lees_shadow wrote:
Please remember this is for Mantic tournaments only!!!

With no "winning" item combinations or incorrectly pointed "must have" models it seems the need to bitch is being expressed in demanding a "ruling"

My skeleton archers will not be legal either as I have made coffin-lid pavises for them to be behind like you have done with the stakes. But they look good, fill out the base, and I don't expect to ever get questioned about them.

At the end of the day it is all about enjoying a well written and tight rule set with people who also made the effort to meet you halfway with their painting and figures.

Mantic gets beat up for copying GW, then gets beat up because the guys coming over from WHFB don't have a 1:1 direct army list conversion for some of the more esoteric GW figures (Where is my cauldron of blood? Gyrocopter? Corpse cart?)

We are still waiting for the complaint that the Mantica world is not "dark enough" since the world is not on the brink of disaster (and not enough skulls)

Respectfully,
That Lee guy

While i wasnt expecting a 1:1 army conversion, i would like a Corpse Cart thing Though thats mostly cuz i think it looks sweet and pretty much EVERY VC player has a few. Im just glad my Terroghiests are gonna get some use, i was worried for a bit, then isaw Zombie Dragons and Winged Wyrms and i felt better.

Come up with rules for the Corpse Cart and send them in to Iron Watch! (Keep it simple - a Monster or Hero that gives Regeneration (X) to units within 6 inches, but only in turns that it does not move, or something like that. Balancing the points will be the hard part.)

The Auld Grump

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 Grimmor wrote:

lees_shadow wrote:
Please remember this is for Mantic tournaments only!!!

With no "winning" item combinations or incorrectly pointed "must have" models it seems the need to bitch is being expressed in demanding a "ruling"

My skeleton archers will not be legal either as I have made coffin-lid pavises for them to be behind like you have done with the stakes. But they look good, fill out the base, and I don't expect to ever get questioned about them.

At the end of the day it is all about enjoying a well written and tight rule set with people who also made the effort to meet you halfway with their painting and figures.

Mantic gets beat up for copying GW, then gets beat up because the guys coming over from WHFB don't have a 1:1 direct army list conversion for some of the more esoteric GW figures (Where is my cauldron of blood? Gyrocopter? Corpse cart?)

We are still waiting for the complaint that the Mantica world is not "dark enough" since the world is not on the brink of disaster (and not enough skulls)

Respectfully,
That Lee guy

While i wasnt expecting a 1:1 army conversion, i would like a Corpse Cart thing Though thats mostly cuz i think it looks sweet and pretty much EVERY VC player has a few. Im just glad my Terroghiests are gonna get some use, i was worried for a bit, then isaw Zombie Dragons and Winged Wyrms and i felt better.

Come up with rules for the Corpse Cart and send them in to Iron Watch! (Keep it simple - a Monster or Hero that gives Regeneration (X) to units within 6 inches, but only in turns that it does not move, or something like that. Balancing the points will be the hard part.)

The Auld Grump

Or ally yourself with the Empire of Dust and take it as a soul snare.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 Grimmor wrote:

lees_shadow wrote:
Please remember this is for Mantic tournaments only!!!

With no "winning" item combinations or incorrectly pointed "must have" models it seems the need to bitch is being expressed in demanding a "ruling"

My skeleton archers will not be legal either as I have made coffin-lid pavises for them to be behind like you have done with the stakes. But they look good, fill out the base, and I don't expect to ever get questioned about them.

At the end of the day it is all about enjoying a well written and tight rule set with people who also made the effort to meet you halfway with their painting and figures.

Mantic gets beat up for copying GW, then gets beat up because the guys coming over from WHFB don't have a 1:1 direct army list conversion for some of the more esoteric GW figures (Where is my cauldron of blood? Gyrocopter? Corpse cart?)

We are still waiting for the complaint that the Mantica world is not "dark enough" since the world is not on the brink of disaster (and not enough skulls)

Respectfully,
That Lee guy

While i wasnt expecting a 1:1 army conversion, i would like a Corpse Cart thing Though thats mostly cuz i think it looks sweet and pretty much EVERY VC player has a few. Im just glad my Terroghiests are gonna get some use, i was worried for a bit, then isaw Zombie Dragons and Winged Wyrms and i felt better.

Come up with rules for the Corpse Cart and send them in to Iron Watch! (Keep it simple - a Monster or Hero that gives Regeneration (X) to units within 6 inches, but only in turns that it does not move, or something like that. Balancing the points will be the hard part.)

The Auld Grump

They...they take homebrew suggestions?? I LOVE MANTIC!!!! Also a Regen cart sounds incredibly useful, or it could just cast Heal i guess..... I need to think on this.