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 jokerkd wrote:
Abaddon is the starscream of 40k

This is why I can't kill Abby. If I had to kill any HQ? Aside from the obvious Draigo because of how little coherent sense he makes and is only an outlet for matward's pent up Gulliman scribblings? Well for Chaos I would kill off... Heck, just now I realized how good our fluff is compared to the rest of 40k. Probably Lucius though since he has no place in an army full of super-powerful CC challenge champs and I would replace him with a rich as feth Slaanesh space pirate who has abilites that revolve around artillery and being really greedy.

 dragoonmaster101 wrote:

 jokerkd wrote:
Abaddon is the starscream of 40k

Aside from the obvious Draigo because of how little coherent sense he makes and is only an outlet for matward's pent up Gulliman scribblings? .

except the question was "to advance the plot" and as far as the plot goes Dragio is BASICLY dead already (the current GK d'ex basicly ends with Dragio being sucked into the warp. I imagine i they moved it forward we'd see a new supreme grandmaster with Dragio being reported as lost) and honestly, after the new GK 'dex I do think Dragio could, in the right hands, be turned into a great "tragic hero"

With Slaanesh being killed off in AoS it may end up happening in 40k too. Major change to the fluff there for eldar and chaos.

I could see Prince Yriel doing something super with the spear of twilight to save the Eldar and get rid of Slaanesh for good, but in doing so the cursed spear takes his life.
I have always found the spear's statline to be very underwhelming when compared to its fluff, so I wouldn't be too sad to see him go.
Also if Yriel dies it leaves a space for Iyanna Arienal to return as the named character for Iyanden, and I believe a named spiritseer would fit that craftworld better than a named autarch anyway.

I could also see Eldrad dying (for a second time after he mysteriously came back to life) performing the greatest piece of magic ever seen.

 Madoch1 wrote:
I would be okay with killing off Urian Rakkarth??(DE Haemunculus).

If we kill off Urien, can we have some of our other characters back...?

Aun Shi... I rarely see him fielded at all, and he just doesn't fit with the rest of a standard Tau army...

Tycho. Because he sucks.

Kill of the Doom of Mala... aw, wait...

But actually, I'd kill off Old One Eye. The idea that a Carnifex is just running around despite being "killed" several times and without any synapse, yet still controlling the beasts around him, is kinda annoying. Plus, his rules are pants-on'head stupid.

Asmodai for sure fluff wise he's awesome. In charge of making sure the fallen repent for the sins they committed against the lion and the emporer during the heresy. But on the table he sux coolish looking model with decent stats but his BOR are pointless!! Yeah if you use them instant death kool but they are only STR4 AP- everything I need to die by them is usually a lot tougher or has a 2+ save!

 Red Marine wrote:
. Cato Sicarius's belief in himself & his chapter is based on fact. They are the best chapter of SMs out there, the UM hate is envious twaddle.

says the guy with a Blood Angel for his avatar.

Belial for me. So boring. Actually, every character in DA has a serious Mary Sue problem. The only remotely original one is Asmodai, but he's the WORST haha. Kill em all, let's go next generation.

Belial for me. So boring. Actually, every character in DA has a serious Mary Sue problem. The only remotely original one is Asmodai, but he's the WORST haha. Kill em all, let's go next generation.

The problem with the DA characters isn't the fluff, it's the LACK of fluff.

An oblique reference to some successor chapter that may or may not be legion building by Azrael is about all you have that's current. We know more about Cypher than we do any of the others. They don't need to kill the DA characters to advance the story, they need to advance A story for the DA characters. Give us some rivalry (not not the childish Agemman/Sicarius one) give us some grudges, etc. for the characters not the chapter.

Is the stupid Inquisitor-Dreadnought-thing still kicking around? The "Throne of Judgement" or some-such?

I'm not sure what edition he was from but by golly his model was exceptional only in it's "what the hell was the designer thinking and what was he on" thought provocation.

So if he is I vote for that

 zgort wrote:
Belial for me. So boring. Actually, every character in DA has a serious Mary Sue problem. The only remotely original one is Asmodai, but he's the WORST haha. Kill em all, let's go next generation.

I really am starting to wonder if anybody even remembers what an actual Mary Sue is, or if they all think it's simply an adjective to describe any characters they don't like.

flyingthruwater wrote:
Is the stupid Inquisitor-Dreadnought-thing still kicking around? The "Throne of Judgement" or some-such?

I'm not sure what edition he was from but by golly his model was exceptional only in it's "what the hell was the designer thinking and what was he on" thought provocation.

So if he is I vote for that

Karazamov and third.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 zgort wrote:
Belial for me. So boring. Actually, every character in DA has a serious Mary Sue problem. The only remotely original one is Asmodai, but he's the WORST haha. Kill em all, let's go next generation.

I really am starting to wonder if anybody even remembers what an actual Mary Sue is, or if they all think it's simply an adjective to describe any characters they don't like.

most people don't know what it means no.

 j31c3n wrote:
I'd definitely have to say Marneus Calgar. Cato Sicarius is far more Gullimanesque and a better fit to lead the Ultramarines, IMO. Despite being the big cheese there seems to be strikingly little actual fluff on Calgar, at least in the codex. (Admittedly, I do not read the novels.)

I'm not sure if he even has any novel fluff. Calgar is the ultimate Mary Sue! He's just so good that GW couldn't come up with any actual details about how good he was that would do the hype justice.

My data here is 5th ed so may not be relevant....

but I'd kill off the Grey Knights Mordrak.

Ghost knights? Really?

So, a chapter specialising in the banishing of daemons finds it acceptable for some daemon-stylee brethren to join them? Seems a little too hypocritical for me

 Wyzilla wrote:

 zgort wrote:
Belial for me. So boring. Actually, every character in DA has a serious Mary Sue problem. The only remotely original one is Asmodai, but he's the WORST haha. Kill em all, let's go next generation.

I really am starting to wonder if anybody even remembers what an actual Mary Sue is, or if they all think it's simply an adjective to describe any characters they don't like.

If it's anything I saw 1d4chan call Belial that under the proper definition for stuff like fighting a high-ranking Space Marine to a stalemate as an unaugmented child.
But not sure if that's a fair assessment, or if it applies to the rest of our named characters.

A Mary Sue is a character who, no matter what their flaws are, those flaws just make them more lovable to every character they meet. They are good at everything, except that one thing that will never matter until it's their time to die beautifully and prove that they're 'too good for this sinful earth'.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
A Mary Sue is a character who, no matter what their flaws are, those flaws just make them more lovable to every character they meet. They are good at everything, except that one thing that will never matter until it's their time to die beautifully and prove that they're 'too good for this sinful earth'.

Which applies to none of the Dark Angels' characters as they're all either flaming donkey-caves or fairly humble compared to the stuff the Ultramarines get away with. Marneus Calgar rallied a bunch of peasants to slaughter what was basically an entire Chapter of Night Lords. Azrael gets into a duel with Kharn during the Pandorax Campaign and nearly loses his head and only survives because he melted a hole through the floor. Otherwise he was bleeding profusely and one of his arms was nearly hacked off. Belial got into a duel with old Ghazzy, and instead of winning in the typical Space Marine fashion nearly loses his head. And there's no rematch like with Calgar where he pulped the Swarmlord to save face for the character. Instead Belial is forced on his back foot and leads his force in a hit and run campaign as the Orks rip through Imperial lines.

Asmodai? I lost my sides over the concept of him being viewed as a mary sue. Asmodai is probably the single most heavily flawed loyalist space marine there is in the Imperium. He constantly threatens to demolish the Legion's standing in the Imperium with his constant desire for bull-headed moves while utterly sucking as an Interrogator Chaplain, having only claimed two black pearls. If anything the man should be demoted.

The Dark Angels are the furthest you can get from the concept of a Mary Sue, especially when compared to the Space Wolves or Ulramarines.

The big E for massive lulz.

But really Draigo because he is boring. or Logan clause because that sled is atrocious.

Marneus Calgar Papa Smurf. Lord Mary Sue of all Mary Sues.

Spiritual Liege of everything. He can feth right off. Has to be the single most annoying thing I've ever seen in 40k, including Draigo.
This is due to the fact hat every time I have met an Ultramarine player (most of the 40k players I have met, sadly), they have made him out to be the biggest most badass thing ever.

I want him to get canonically bitchslapped to death by failbaddon.

 Wyzilla wrote:

The Dark Angels are the furthest you can get from the concept of a Mary Sue, especially when compared to the Space Wolves or Ulramarines.

As it is written, brother.

This is due to the fact hat every time I have met an Ultramarine player (most of the 40k players I have met, sadly), they have made him out to be the biggest most badass thing ever.

And only people who played 2nd Ed can truly know how cool Calgar is now compared to how he was then.

2nd Ed, alas I mourn it's loss, had psychology the same as Fantasy. Dante caused Terror via his Death Mask of Sanguinius (or I think, it's been a while so forgive me if I misremember a minor detail) The Dark Angels caused Terror also - I think Azrael's sword. Calgar caused Jack, and... well Calgar didn't cause anything. The best the whole Ultramarine chapter had, was Fear from their banner. Whoopee. I think during 3rd Ed he got even worse (but I don't remember for sure)

So, all things considered, I'm OK with letting Calgar be pretty cool for a while after a couple few editions of Ultramarines sucking hind teat.

 Wyzilla wrote:
[
Asmodai? I lost my sides over the concept of him being viewed as a mary sue. Asmodai is probably the single most heavily flawed loyalist space marine there is in the Imperium. He constantly threatens to demolish the Legion's standing in the Imperium with his constant desire for bull-headed moves while utterly sucking as an Interrogator Chaplain, having only claimed two black pearls. If anything the man should be demoted.

He was demoted too... or at least passed over for promotion, even if he was the most senior inquisitor chaplain or whatevs he is called.

You just have to love Asmodai though, with his bullheaded obesession.

I'd say the space wolves are the most mary sue of the chapters. Ultramarines follow the rules to a Tee. Sues useally break ALL the rules, but it's ok cause umm... it is

In 2nd Ed Marneus Calgar had Ws, Bs and I of 8 (higher than ANY other Space Marine in 2nd Ed) and had a Strategy Rating of 6 (the highest in the game!) so he's always been the best Chapter Master really

 Furyou Miko wrote:
A Mary Sue is a character who, no matter what their flaws are, those flaws just make them more lovable to every character they meet. They are good at everything, except that one thing that will never matter until it's their time to die beautifully and prove that they're 'too good for this sinful earth'.

I thought one of the traits of a Mary Sue was that they had no flaws?

Also, no bad decision they make will ever have negative consequences.

BrianDavion wrote:
I'd say the space wolves are the most mary sue of the chapters. Ultramarines follow the rules to a Tee. Sues useally break ALL the rules, but it's ok cause umm... it is

So much this.

I love it when Space Wolves players hate on the Ultramarines for being Mary Sues. Of course, I'm a lover of irony in general, so...

Edit: kill Ragnar Blackmane or Cato Sicarius.