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Made in ca
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran




Toronto, Ontario

 d-usa wrote:
Anyone dealing with death, or whatever, at a pretty regular basis is going to seem pretty damn casual about it to most other people.

*snipped for brevity*

Medical people don't approach death the same way as normal people, im sure the military guys here can relate. What it doesn't mean is that we don't care.


Thank you for sharing that with us.

 reds8n wrote:
http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/07/14/attack-on-planned-parenthood-3-deceptive-edits/204419

When you're editing out 8 minutes of a conversation and trying to pretend that the figures they quote for one thing are not in fact from a different thing mentioned in the missing time, ..well.....


I am shocked, shocked that someone might try to use a disingenuously edited video to cater to their particular bias against Planned Parenthood! /sarcasm

Great, that James O'Keefe donkey cave has followers.
   
Made in ke
Stubborn Hammerer





As a pro-life advocate I do not approve of the doctoring of videos or sensationalism.

   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 Peregrine wrote:
 generalgrog wrote:
The point isn't the fact that it was an edited video with old news footage...the point was the casual , and cold nature that Dr. Hannibal Lector drinks her Chianti and eats here fava beans, while discussing selling parts of a human being.


Who gives a about how casual the discussion is? It's a blob of dead tissue with less "humanity" than the cockroaches you kill without the slightest regret. I fail to see why any discussion of the subject needs to be accompanied by tragic music and buckets of tears.


Its not a blob of dead tissue, its a blob of living tissue that is then killed. And that blob of tissue happens to be a human being, at its earliest life stages.

"Science" I'm afraid doesn't get to decide what is and isn't a human being, beyond confirming that it contains human DNA and is indeed living cells. Beyond that is where ethics and morality take over. We know this living creature has human DNA and is merely the first stage of a very long line of changes that occur in human development. Ergo: its human.

Some common arguments for why its "Ok" to kill a baby while its still in the womb and why they're total bunk.

1) It can't live on its own. True, but babies can't live on their own long after they are born either. They are totally helpless and completely depend on the care of adults for the good first decade of their lives.

2) It has no brain activity. Well, the CNS appears quite early on in pregnancy, and by the time this particular stage being discussed here happens where it has organs viable for transactions it most definitely has a functioning nervous system. Plus I see no reason why this should really matter, its alive and its human. Nothing about that cares if you have a CNS or not. The brain also doesn't finish developing till the early 20s, so using brain development is obviously not an important function for determining if something is human or not.

3) People say its the mothers choice. Sure it is, and that choice was made before the baby was conceived. Condoms are so cheap people are giving them away for free people. If you don't want to get pregnant, don't get pregnant in the first place. Also, nobody talks about the baby's choice, we have established that it is a human being after all. To all who support abortion, what if your mother had decided you were just a burdensome piece of trash she didn't want? I'm sure you wouldn't like that. Plus there are many families who are incapable of having children who will be willing to adopt. Babies can be surrendered to many safe locations no questions asked, such as fire stations.

I agree that contraceptives should be available to people who want them. If you get past that point there is zero excuse. You can't terminate a human life because you were careless, especially when there are plenty of services for you to give that child away to someone who wants it and will actually care for it.

Abortions should only be performed if it is a life saving procedure that is 100% medically necessary.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 14:56:32


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Squatting with the squigs

 Scrabb wrote:
As a pro-life advocate I do not approve of the doctoring of videos or sensationalism.


As a pro-life advocate i do approve of the doctoring of wombs.The "it's alive in the first trimester " people need to look at how often miscarriage happens in that period. 10-25% is not a small number of recognised pregnancies . feths sake, the number would be exponentially larger in unrecognised pregnancy.

Abortion waste should be used, especially if it can be used to benefit the rest of humanity.

Also thanx d-usa for backing up what i said earlier, my sister is a nurse and her offhand manner in dealing with corpses /body parts always spins me out - thanx for applying that knowledge to this discussion.

THe whole premise of this discussion seems to be "that evil woman so calmly talking about killing babies when she should be nurturing, is making money off selling baby (if it's a baby, it's manslaughter to accidentally kill it) parts for profit!"
feth me dead, are you serious?, or just not thinking of the ramifications of your views?

My new blog: http://kardoorkapers.blogspot.com.au/

Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."

Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"

Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST" 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 Bullockist wrote:
 Scrabb wrote:
As a pro-life advocate I do not approve of the doctoring of videos or sensationalism.


As a pro-life advocate i do approve of the doctoring of wombs.The "it's alive in the first trimester " people need to look at how often miscarriage happens in that period. 10-25% is not a small number of recognised pregnancies . feths sake, the number would be exponentially larger in unrecognised pregnancy.


Sure, its a tragedy that so many pregnancies are naturally aborted like that, but its not anyones fault. Its no different that someone dying of old age or slipping and breaking their neck.

When its deliberately performed, thats when it becomes murder.


1) A guy slips and falls and breaks his neck.

2) I push a guy and he falls and breaks his neck.

1 is an accident. 2 is murder.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 15:02:40


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 reds8n wrote:
http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/07/14/attack-on-planned-parenthood-3-deceptive-edits/204419


When you're editing out 8 minutes of a conversation and trying to pretend that the figures they quote for one thing are not in fact from a different thing mentioned in the missing time, ..well.....


A right-wing organization releases a heavily-edited tape to mislead the perpetually-angry rabble? Fetch my fainting couch, this is unprecedented.


Surely this will be the time they realize they've been lied to by hacks to serve their agenda!

This time, surely!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/07/15 15:08:05


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Squatting with the squigs



If it is alive, then all miscarriages are manslaughter or murder 3 or whatever over there. Miscarriages happen a huge amount of time in the intrinsic stage of pregnancy . Are women culpable for accidentally aborting a "living being" as you put it?
if not, why not?
if it is a living being then surely it is afforded the rights that the rest of us have.

deliberately? IN my country we have a crime that is used to prosecute those who kill people through misadventure/ negligence. What you are saying fits the bill.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 15:10:28


My new blog: http://kardoorkapers.blogspot.com.au/

Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."

Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"

Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST" 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Bullockist wrote:


If it is alive, then all miscarriages are manslaughter or murder 3 or whatever over there. Miscarriages happen a huge amount of time in the intrinsic stage of pregnancy . Are women culpable for accidentally aborting a "living being" as you put it?
if not, why not?
if it is a living being then surely it is afforded the rights that the rest of us have.

deliberately? IN my country we have a crime that is used to prosecute those who kill people through misadventure/ negligence. What you are saying fits the bill.


you're failing criminal law. Its not a crime if no act is committed.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







 Grey Templar wrote:

"Science" I'm afraid doesn't get to decide what is and isn't a human being, beyond confirming that it contains human DNA and is indeed living cells. Beyond that is where ethics and morality take over. We know this living creature has human DNA and is merely the first stage of a very long line of changes that occur in human development. Ergo: its human.

...

Also, nobody talks about the baby's choice, we have established that it is a human being after all.


The only thing you've established is that you think your personal interpretation of ethics should be forced on every living being on this planet. Are you God?

The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins. 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 lord_blackfang wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:

"Science" I'm afraid doesn't get to decide what is and isn't a human being, beyond confirming that it contains human DNA and is indeed living cells. Beyond that is where ethics and morality take over. We know this living creature has human DNA and is merely the first stage of a very long line of changes that occur in human development. Ergo: its human.

...

Also, nobody talks about the baby's choice, we have established that it is a human being after all.


The only thing you've established is that you think your personal interpretation of ethics should be forced on every living being on this planet. Are you God?


Are there are any ANY accepted codes of ethics where its accepted to simply kill a human being who has committed no crimes and done no wrong?

If not, then nobody is forcing any code of ethics on anyone, simply extending existing codes to where they should be.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

And now we're now arguing vigorously that women deserve less autonomy over their bodies than we afford corpses.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Sniping Reverend Moira





Cincinnati, Ohio

Ouze wrote:
And now we're now arguing vigorously that women deserve less autonomy over their bodies than we afford corpses.


He really didn't argue that at all...

 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

No I didn't. Plus you do have full autonomy. The choice was made when you didn't use birth control.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 15:22:02


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Squatting with the squigs

 Frazzled wrote:
 Bullockist wrote:


If it is alive, then all miscarriages are manslaughter or murder 3 or whatever over there. Miscarriages happen a huge amount of time in the intrinsic stage of pregnancy . Are women culpable for accidentally aborting a "living being" as you put it?
if not, why not?
if it is a living being then surely it is afforded the rights that the rest of us have.

deliberately? IN my country we have a crime that is used to prosecute those who kill people through misadventure/ negligence. What you are saying fits the bill.


you're failing criminal law. Its not a crime if no act is committed.

I normally don't argue but involuntary manslaughter fits the bill.Definitely fits.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/manslaughter

My new blog: http://kardoorkapers.blogspot.com.au/

Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."

Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"

Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST" 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 Bullockist wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
 Bullockist wrote:


If it is alive, then all miscarriages are manslaughter or murder 3 or whatever over there. Miscarriages happen a huge amount of time in the intrinsic stage of pregnancy . Are women culpable for accidentally aborting a "living being" as you put it?
if not, why not?
if it is a living being then surely it is afforded the rights that the rest of us have.

deliberately? IN my country we have a crime that is used to prosecute those who kill people through misadventure/ negligence. What you are saying fits the bill.


you're failing criminal law. Its not a crime if no act is committed.

I normally don't argue but involuntary manslaughter fits the bill.Definitely fits.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/manslaughter


That still requires an act, albeit one that unintentionally causes murder. In a miscarriage, no act is committed.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 lord_blackfang wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:

"Science" I'm afraid doesn't get to decide what is and isn't a human being, beyond confirming that it contains human DNA and is indeed living cells. Beyond that is where ethics and morality take over. We know this living creature has human DNA and is merely the first stage of a very long line of changes that occur in human development. Ergo: its human.

...

Also, nobody talks about the baby's choice, we have established that it is a human being after all.


The only thing you've established is that you think your personal interpretation of ethics should be forced on every living being on this planet. Are you God?

Actually thats the SCOTUS view too. And yes I am Dog.


Automatically Appended Next Post:


That still requires an act, albeit one that unintentionally causes murder. In a miscarriage, no act is committed.


Indeed. I'll repeat. You don't seem to have an understanding of criminal law.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 15:24:40


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Squatting with the squigs

 Grey Templar wrote:


That still requires an act, albeit one that unintentionally causes murder. In a miscarriage, no act is committed.

An act is comitted just.....WITHOUT INTENT!
miscarriage isn't an act?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/07/15 15:33:27


My new blog: http://kardoorkapers.blogspot.com.au/

Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."

Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"

Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST" 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 Bullockist wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:


That still requires an act, albeit one that unintentionally causes murder. In a miscarriage, no act is committed.

WITHOUT INTENT!


Yes, and also without act.

If I leave a rake in the yard, I am not intending for someone to walk by and step on it and get whacked in the face. But I still committed the act which caused that event to occur. Again, poor understanding of criminal law as Frazzled said.

With a miscarriage, no act is committed which causes the abortion.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Squatting with the squigs

The body rejects the fetus, that is an act in itself.
once again INVOLUNTARY manslaughter.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 15:35:42


My new blog: http://kardoorkapers.blogspot.com.au/

Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."

Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"

Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST" 
   
Made in us
Sniping Reverend Moira





Cincinnati, Ohio

 Bullockist wrote:
The body rejects the fetus, that is an act in itself.


No.

 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Bullockist wrote:
The body rejects the fetus, that is an act in itself.


The body has no duty of care.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 Bullockist wrote:
The body rejects the fetus, that is an act in itself.


No its not. Not within the definition of the law.

Me farting is not a legal act, nor is the body rejecting a fetus, or breathing, etc...

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Squatting with the squigs

IF you argue a fetus is living in the first trimester I cannot see how you can argue that it being aborted naturally is anything but involuntary manslaughter.

My new blog: http://kardoorkapers.blogspot.com.au/

Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."

Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"

Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST" 
   
Made in us
Sniping Reverend Moira





Cincinnati, Ohio

 Bullockist wrote:
IF you argue a fetus is living in the first trimester I cannot see how you can argue that it being aborted naturally is anything but involuntary manslaughter.


As has been said MULTIPLE times already:

Because no act is committed.

 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Squatting with the squigs

I guess I'm wrong, thanx gents

My new blog: http://kardoorkapers.blogspot.com.au/

Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."

Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"

Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST" 
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





 Grey Templar wrote:
Are there are any ANY accepted codes of ethics where its accepted to simply kill a human being who has committed no crimes and done no wrong?

Yes.

"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

When you understand how the law actually works, thats when you'll understand that its not involuntary manslaughter because no act is committed.

And even if it were that wouldn't be a problem. Charges would just get automatically dropped, no big deal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
Are there are any ANY accepted codes of ethics where its accepted to simply kill a human being who has committed no crimes and done no wrong?

Yes.


I should note I don't approve of Euthanasia either, but that at least has the consent of the person getting killed. In the case of abortion no consent is given by the victim.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 15:40:33


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





Here is another one.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 15:41:20


"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios



I said accepted codes. I assure you, the Spartan's practices would NOT fly today.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





 Grey Templar wrote:
I said accepted codes. I assure you, the Spartan's practices would NOT fly today.

Well, abortion flies today.

"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 
   
 
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