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Hahahaha.
Kroot can all take sniper rounds for just 1pt per model. Take that rend everywhere.

There BS 3 with a 6+ save and they only have 24" range. If you can't avoid them your have issues worse then OP Tau.

Vespid have damn AP3 base.

Grossly over costed 72 points for 4 S5 AP3 at BS 3 and all on T4 4+ save with LD 6. Even with maker light support they would be lucky to kill 3 marines a game. And your better off spend marker lights else where.

Pathfinders? You're kidding, right? That's the whole armies cheap way of getting markerlights.

11 points per model, so yes they are relatively cheap. But there are T3 with a 5+ save. Without cover there don't stand up to a stiff breeze. And having heavy weapons, are not able to move without sacrificing their complete effectiveness so they are sitting ducks.

Drone Squadron? Hahahahhahahahahhahahahahhaha. Okay, put a Tau Commander in with a full squad of gun drones and give him drone controller. They're all BS5 now and re-rolling to hit. This has been used by my friend a lot and it dominates. Plus, they serve as a way of having extra wounds for the commander.

Yes a very strong unit I'll give you that. But you can still avoid it because it only has 18" range. And being close leaves it open to assault, especially if they roll poor for their jet pack move.

Army wide BS3 is negated completely with markerlights. The whole army can be BS5 if they want to.

Man I wish my Tau could all be BS just cause they want to. Are you forgetting you need to roll for markerlights? If you had 3 units of ten pathfinders, you only end up with 5 hits each on three different units. That means only two units can become BS 5 assuming you don't need ignores cover when targeting that marked unit. That means that theoretically 6 units in your army could be BS 5, which could be your whole army if it was small.
That is assuming you have 30 pathfinders on the field. Most people use 15-18 pathfinders meaning only 7-9 markerlights a turn. Defiantly not your whole army.

Hammerheads? S10 shots? Equip Darkstrider (or whatever his name is) and it gets to overwatch and hit on 2s.

Wow one S10 shot a turn. Not exactly broken.
Do you mean he hits on 2's in overwatch?
Longstrike can overwatch yes, but still fires snap shots. And a BS 5 Hammerhead with tank hunter is not overpowered, especially when it costs 170 stock.

Railgun Broadsides? Again, high powered shots, multi-wound models with incredible range. You won't even get to them before they've destroyed your transports.

Their widely considered not worth their points, but I still use them. Their a unit that doesn't know what the want to do. They are armed with light/medium anti-tank weapons and ant-light infantry weapons. A heavy rail rifle has a small chance to glance or penetrate and explode an armour 11 vehicle. The SMS has an even lower chance to score a glance.

Aun'Shi is an ethereal. Storm of Fire giving all pulse weapons +1 shot. Nice, so with 2 full Fire Warrior squads with a Cadre in each unit puts off 96 S5, AP4 shots at 15" range. Or he can give all Tau within 12" FnP 6+.

First of all a pulse rifle is AP5
Secondly, FNP 6+ is defiantly not OP, especially on T3 models.
Thirdly, why are they getting 96 shots. By the time you get to rapid fire distance you should have killed a lots of those fire warriors.

Aun'Va has that Paradox of Duality thing. So I can shoot 15 S10 AP1 shots at him, and he automatically ignores it because it's AP1. If they're AP2, he'll ignore them on 2+, etc. that's ridiculous, oh as well as his normal saves. He gives all Tau re-rolls for any Ld check on the board, plus he can give off 2 ethereal powers. 2? Hahahha what?

It's just plain stupid to waste S10 AP1 shots on Aun'Va. even AP2 and AP3 weapons should have better targets. He has a 5+ save why is that broken? Just remember that there is one Paradox of Duality, if you want ridiculous lets talk about the serpents shield which is basically the same, but there is more of them. My high S low AP ant-tank weapons are useless against that.
Aun'Va does not give re-rolls for all leadership tests only fear, pinning and morale tests. And wow 2 powers a turn, that's great when only one power if worth using.

Cadre Fireblades? As long as he stays still (which Tau do anyway) he gives all Fire Warriors in his unit +1 shot just for being there. As I've stated before, put a Ethereal nearby and all single Fire Warrior models get 4 shots each.

Are you forgetting fire warriors are T3 with a 4+ save? They die to most weapons. Why aren't you shooting them before getting in range? Your tanks are immune to S5 he can fire all the shots he wants and you won't you can be damaged.

Stealthsuits. 2+ cover saves for days.

Serpents shield? Ignore cover? Am I on to something?
Eldar pathfinder have the same rules. Their also cheaper than stealthsuits.

I'm pretty sure this guy lost all credibility when he claimed that Vespids were overpowered, along with literally every other unit in the book. Tau have terrible internal balance, which is why you only see a few of the units from the codex in regular use.

Beating Tau is a game of target priority and board controll. Use fast units to flank and grab objectives. Kill the Markerlights first, followed by their long-range firepower, followed shortly by everything else. Force leadership checks and spam psychic powers whenever possible. If all else fails, close to CC and watch the Tau melt.

Yeah. I'm sorry dude, but if you have that level of problem facing Tau and you play Eldar then this is simply not the game for you. I perform very well against my buddy (who is an extremely good, tournament-level Tau player who uses strong lists (multiple Riptides) that are still fluffy (Stealthsuits, lots of gun drones) with SM lists (without allies) of similar power and fluff.

My friends are bad, but not as bad as you. Whew thank god. I would be very sad if I had opponents at your level unable to learn from their mistakes.

Take a Callidus Assassin and deploy her somewhere your opponent really doesn't want her to be, preferably so he has to move to get LOS to her.

You force his hand in dealing with the Callidus while the rest of your force ( Ravenwing I presume ) get that one turn they need to get up close and personal. A drop pod with something nasty inside will do the same trick, but for a bit more cost.

For the original poster.
Try three cheap units with a flamer each in drop pods. 2 drop pods come in first turn near his pathfinders. A flame ignores cover and is AP 5 so bye bye pathfinders

I had a space wolves player drop murderfang and kill a squad of my pathfinders first turn.

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Farseer Uruvion wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
I AM SUMMONED!

Vespids, Kroot, Pathfinders, Drone Squadrons, Armywide BS3, Hammerheads, Railgun Broadsides, Aun'Shi, Shadowsun, Aun'Va, Cadre Fireblades, Stealth Suits.

Please tell me those are all overpowered.

You are exhibiting symptoms of being bad.

Hahahaha.
Kroot can all take sniper rounds for just 1pt per model. Take that rend everywhere.
Vespid have damn AP3 base.
Pathfinders? You're kidding, right? That's the whole armies cheap way of getting markerlights.
Drone Squadron? Hahahahhahahahahhahahahahhaha. Okay, put a Tau Commander in with a full squad of gun drones and give him drone controller. They're all BS5 now and re-rolling to hit. This has been used by my friend a lot and it dominates. Plus, they serve as a way of having extra wounds for the commander.
Army wide BS3 is negated completely with markerlights. The whole army can be BS5 if they want to.
Hammerheads? S10 shots? Equip Darkstrider (or whatever his name is) and it gets to overwatch and hit on 2s.
Railgun Broadsides? Again, high powered shots, multi-wound models with incredible range. You won't even get to them before they've destroyed your transports.
Aun'Shi is an ethereal. Storm of Fire giving all pulse weapons +1 shot. Nice, so with 2 full Fire Warrior squads with a Cadre in each unit puts off 96 S5, AP4 shots at 15" range. Or he can give all Tau within 12" FnP 6+.
Aun'Va has that Paradox of Duality thing. So I can shoot 15 S10 AP1 shots at him, and he automatically ignores it because it's AP1. If they're AP2, he'll ignore them on 2+, etc. that's ridiculous, oh as well as his normal saves. He gives all Tau re-rolls for any Ld check on the board, plus he can give off 2 ethereal powers. 2? Hahahha what?
Cadre Fireblades? As long as he stays still (which Tau do anyway) he gives all Fire Warriors in his unit +1 shot just for being there. As I've stated before, put a Ethereal nearby and all single Fire Warrior models get 4 shots each.
Stealthsuits. 2+ cover saves for days.


Okay, I was wrong about Shadowsun. She is maybe the only thing not OP to some degree. But you can not have 1 of her ever. Other than that, I've reinforced my point completely.

Half of that can be avoided through staying out of RF range, killing markerlights and target priority!

I like how you resorted to playing against Tau with essentially two Wraithknights lol. You talk about Tau being overpowered when the Wraithknight is undercosted by at least 125 points, if not more.

I only have to resort to using two Wraithknights to keep up with the amount of cheese. And as soon as turn 1 was over, he ended up quitting the game. Some people need to learn that you don't have to take OP units in every game.
I don't use any Wraih at all usually, but have to make a special example for Tau.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm honestly now tired of people not seeing the point.
Tau are OP. Opinion. I just refuse to play them completely and the same goes for a lot of people in my gaming group.
I'm not going to try and argue back and forth with most of you people on here because it's a waste of time.
I apologise if I've personally offended any of you on here, but I just have to speak my mind about my opinion and experiences.
Thank you for the debate.

 TheNewBlood wrote:
Beating Tau is a game of target priority and board controll.

This is exactly what I do with my SoB and I've yet to lose against my mate's Tau. Full Rhino rush up the board (and flat out), Exorcist tanks take potshots at suits if they see any and then the outflanking Dominions in their multimelta Immolators come in and start tearing vehicles apart. Pathfinders melt before my flamers and firewarriors often run away if they by chance didn't all die in a volley. The games usually end with him having only suits left, jumping about and being irritating but unable to dislodge me from all objectives. So what if 40 sisters out of 70 have become martyrs?

He hasn't invested in a Riptide yet, but does have plenty of suits, devilfish/hammerheads and a couple flyers. And our boards are usually packed with terrain, not flat parking lots. If I faced him on a parking lot I'd probably lose.

Half of the power of tau is all mental. Constanty win against lists i should get rolled by because of my opponent psyching themselves out and going after bad targets.

Even BA can kinda threaten Tau if the Tau player doesn't know exactly what they're doing. BA might steal a game here or there, so you know Eldar should be pounding face.

"I know that my completely incorrect opinion is too deeply held to be changed, so I'm going to run away from this thread rather then actually be enlightened as to what's overpowered or not!"

"I'm honestly now tired of people not seeing the point. "

You mean the point where the Eldar codex is way more OP than the Tau? Yeah, I guess you did miss that part.

'I apologise if I've personally offended any of you on here"

I'm not offended, only a little shocked at the lack of mathematical analysis ability.

Tau aren't op, they just tend to have lists that have a non-interactive play style, which is, of course, not very fun to try and interact with as the opponent. Their average gun line list can dominate flgs lists, but decently competitive lists run right over them.

Also WOW at eldar having problems with them. Your codex is equipped to handle literally anything from green tide to Titans without needing allies. Maybe you should post some of your lists and/or battle reports to get some assistance with your strat or tactics, because it sounds like the tau might not be the problem in your games.

remember...this isn't a tournament he is talking about. but a group of friends that have played together and know each others army...So that being said, it could be a lot of tailored listing and if that's the case, competitive list wont be as competitive since some players made counters and so on.

 Farseer Uruvion wrote:

I only have to resort to using two Wraithknights to keep up with the amount of cheese. And as soon as turn 1 was over, he ended up quitting the game. Some people need to learn that you don't have to take OP units in every game.
I don't use any Wraih at all usually, but have to make a special example for Tau.

So the inclusion of just two units were enough to beat an army that you consider every single unit to be OP. Do you see the problem here?

I think some people need to remember Dakka rule #1 in this thread. There is no reason we should be belittling anyone here.

If anything, respect should be given that he held his beliefs and debated without resorting to the nastiness that some of you have shown him.

Suks wrote:
I think some people need to remember Dakka rule #1 in this thread. There is no reason we should be belittling anyone here.

If anything, respect should be given that he held his beliefs and debated without resorting to the nastiness that some of you have shown him.

This is DakkaDakka. Suffering fools is not something normally done around here. We respect his right to post stupid arguments. In turn, we reserve the right to mock said arguments.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Suks wrote:
I think some people need to remember Dakka rule #1 in this thread. There is no reason we should be belittling anyone here.

If anything, respect should be given that he held his beliefs and debated without resorting to the nastiness that some of you have shown him.

This is DakkaDakka. Suffering fools is not something normally done around here. We respect his right to post stupid arguments. In turn, we reserve the right to mock said arguments.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I've always found the dakka community to be a generally helpful and active community. It is always important to bear in mind that there are multiple ways to play / want to play an army and each person is entitled to their opinions.

I'm definitely not saying that you need to agree with his opinion, but I am saying there is no need to belittle people and/or get personal.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Suks wrote:
I think some people need to remember Dakka rule #1 in this thread. There is no reason we should be belittling anyone here.

If anything, respect should be given that he held his beliefs and debated without resorting to the nastiness that some of you have shown him.

This is DakkaDakka. Suffering fools is not something normally done around here. We respect his right to post stupid arguments. In turn, we reserve the right to mock said arguments.

There is a difference between mocking the argument and the poster.

Eldar players are entitled to their opinions just as much as any Tau players are.

Speaking as a Skitarii player, you're both broken as all heck.

Close. Combat. There are many options to get there - land raider, drop pod, rhino walls for jump troops. Use telepathy for psychic shriek. Use ravenwing formation, come in outflanking turn 2 to not worry about getting shot on the way. Also, darkshrouds. Darkshrouds deny your opponent overwatch, so it makes the fishy xenos cry. As part of formation, they outflank too.

Been gone for a couple of days and come back to this. Well, thanks to everyone who provided tips!

 Verviedi wrote:
"I know that my completely incorrect opinion is too deeply held to be changed, so I'm going to run away from this thread rather then actually be enlightened as to what's overpowered or not!"

It's an opinion. Incorrect opinions are non-existant.
I still stand by what I said by saying Tau are the most broken codex to date. Regardless of your blindly thrown insults, I'll believe what I believe.

Also, next time, please attempt to actually add something to the discussion, rather than attempt to downcast me. It doesn't come off as an intelligent response.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
"I'm honestly now tired of people not seeing the point. "

You mean the point where the Eldar codex is way more OP than the Tau? Yeah, I guess you did miss that part.

'I apologise if I've personally offended any of you on here"

I'm not offended, only a little shocked at the lack of mathematical analysis ability.

I never said the Craftworld Eldar codex isn't overpowered. There's just some mixed in useless units with the OP units. Whereas with the Tau codex, there's nothing that isn't OP, with the exception of Commander Shadowsun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

niv-mizzet wrote:
Tau aren't op, they just tend to have lists that have a non-interactive play style, which is, of course, not very fun to try and interact with as the opponent. Their average gun line list can dominate flgs lists, but decently competitive lists run right over them.

Also WOW at eldar having problems with them. Your codex is equipped to handle literally anything from green tide to Titans without needing allies. Maybe you should post some of your lists and/or battle reports to get some assistance with your strat or tactics, because it sounds like the tau might not be the problem in your games.

As I've stated previously, I never said the Eldar codex isn't generally OP.
Read my statement above. ^


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Savageconvoy wrote:

 Farseer Uruvion wrote:

I only have to resort to using two Wraithknights to keep up with the amount of cheese. And as soon as turn 1 was over, he ended up quitting the game. Some people need to learn that you don't have to take OP units in every game.
I don't use any Wraih at all usually, but have to make a special example for Tau.

So the inclusion of just two units were enough to beat an army that you consider every single unit to be OP. Do you see the problem here?

I admit Wraithknights are extremely overpowered and underpriced. I was just saying that I only use them against people who use Tau, if they manage to actually get a game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Suks wrote:
I think some people need to remember Dakka rule #1 in this thread. There is no reason we should be belittling anyone here.

If anything, respect should be given that he held his beliefs and debated without resorting to the nastiness that some of you have shown him.

This is DakkaDakka. Suffering fools is not something normally done around here. We respect his right to post stupid arguments. In turn, we reserve the right to mock said arguments.

I only gave my opinion. Please enlighten me as to why you think my statements are 'stupid', as you say.
Would you consider trying to counter point my argument, rather than just "mock said arguments"?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, thank you to Kanluwen, Suks and DaKKaLAnce for having the civility and intelligence to see that my points are an opinion.

I've only just joined DakkaDakka a few days ago and I'm already seeing how negative and ignorant the majority of it's community is.

 Farseer Uruvion wrote:


Okay then, let's have a game where I just use Storm Guardians, Rangers, Night Weavers, Illic Nightspear and some Shining Spears and watch as I get absolutely destroyed.
I was saying that everything in the Tau codex is a little OP, to some degree.

I'm complaining that EVERYTHING in the Tau codex is overpowered.
As I said to the other guy, Eldar have some pretty bad units mixed in with the OP stuff. The Eldar codex allows for a fair game, whereas with the Tau codex, it's virtually impossible. I've tried.

lawlzors

Kroot. Vespid. Phiranhas (spelling?). Devilfish. The Flyers. These units are the definition of sub-par.

And how are things like Firewarriors OP when you have Scatriders? Firewarriors have worse LD, worse WS/BS, and no Bladestorm.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Farseer Uruvion wrote:


Okay then, let's have a game where I just use Storm Guardians, Rangers, Night Weavers, Illic Nightspear and some Shining Spears and watch as I get absolutely destroyed.
I was saying that everything in the Tau codex is a little OP, to some degree.

I'm complaining that EVERYTHING in the Tau codex is overpowered.
As I said to the other guy, Eldar have some pretty bad units mixed in with the OP stuff. The Eldar codex allows for a fair game, whereas with the Tau codex, it's virtually impossible. I've tried.

lawlzors

Kroot. Vespid. Phiranhas (spelling?). Devilfish. The Flyers. These units are the definition of sub-par.

And how are things like Firewarriors OP when you have Scatriders? Firewarriors have worse LD, worse WS/BS, and no Bladestorm.

Please read my previous replies about how I never state Eldar aren't OP.
And how I mention everything having potential BS5+.

 Farseer Uruvion wrote:

Please read my previous replies about how I never state Eldar aren't OP.
And how I mention everything having potential BS5+.

Necrons can have essentially BS10 units running around with BS5 infantry and rerolling everything else.

Tau are squishy for their prices, and are among the worst armies in CC. Seriously. Them being able to be BS5 is not that bad. Plus, Eldar can have wide-spread BS5 too.

Behave or I'll be paging a mod...

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Farseer Uruvion wrote:

Please read my previous replies about how I never state Eldar aren't OP.
And how I mention everything having potential BS5+.

Necrons can have essentially BS10 units running around with BS infantry and rerolling everything else. Complain about them.

Tau are squishy for their prices, and are among the worst armies in CC. Seriously. Them being able to be BS5 is not that bad. Plus, Eldar can have wide-spread BS5 too.

Having 3 or more T6 W5 with a 2+ 5++ (potential free 3++) with a 5+FnP isn't squishy. And Tau could all have 6+ armour, that still doesn't change that you can't even get there into CC. With a 30" range at S5 and a potential 3 shots per model (4 in 15" range), nothing is getting though anytime soon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Behave or I'll be paging a mod...

I was legitimately wondering if that's a thing. As I've only recently joined, I thought it was completely unmoderated.

All I'm doing is putting forth my opinion without the need to abuse anyone.

 Farseer Uruvion wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Farseer Uruvion wrote:

Please read my previous replies about how I never state Eldar aren't OP.
And how I mention everything having potential BS5+.

Necrons can have essentially BS10 units running around with BS infantry and rerolling everything else. Complain about them.

Tau are squishy for their prices, and are among the worst armies in CC. Seriously. Them being able to be BS5 is not that bad. Plus, Eldar can have wide-spread BS5 too.

Having 3 or more T6 W5 with a 2+ 5++ (potential free 3++) with a 5+FnP isn't squishy. And Tau could all have 6+ armour, that still doesn't change that you can't even get there into CC. With a 30" range at S5 and a potential 3 shots per model (4 in 15" range), nothing is getting though anytime soon.

Try using Howling Banshees and/or Jain Zar in a unit of Striking Scorpions...your Howling Banshee Mask actually prevents you from being Overwatched.

Since the Charged unit can't Overwatch, Supporting Fire cannot work either.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Behave or I'll be paging a mod...

I was legitimately wondering if that's a thing. As I've only recently joined, I thought it was completely unmoderated.

All I'm doing is putting forth my opinion without the need to abuse anyone.

I understand that, just saying that if you feel like someone is being antagonistic press the "Yellow Triangle of Friendship" rather than replying to them immediately.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Farseer Uruvion wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Farseer Uruvion wrote:

Please read my previous replies about how I never state Eldar aren't OP.
And how I mention everything having potential BS5+.

Necrons can have essentially BS10 units running around with BS infantry and rerolling everything else. Complain about them.

Tau are squishy for their prices, and are among the worst armies in CC. Seriously. Them being able to be BS5 is not that bad. Plus, Eldar can have wide-spread BS5 too.

Having 3 or more T6 W5 with a 2+ 5++ (potential free 3++) with a 5+FnP isn't squishy. And Tau could all have 6+ armour, that still doesn't change that you can't even get there into CC. With a 30" range at S5 and a potential 3 shots per model (4 in 15" range), nothing is getting though anytime soon.

Try using Howling Banshees and/or Jain Zar in a unit of Striking Scorpions...your Howling Banshee Mask actually prevents you from being Overwatched.

Since the Charged unit can't Overwatch, Supporting Fire cannot work either.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Behave or I'll be paging a mod...

I was legitimately wondering if that's a thing. As I've only recently joined, I thought it was completely unmoderated.

All I'm doing is putting forth my opinion without the need to abuse anyone.

I understand that, just saying that if you feel like someone is being antagonistic press the "Yellow Triangle of Friendship" rather than replying to them immediately.

Oh, didn't actually realise it was there. Thank you for pointing that out.

What does it exactly do, btw?

It puts a flag on a post, alerting a moderator to it.