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 DarkLink wrote:

Target wrote:
I was one of the Tau players (table 3) playing to get into top 8. The changes to tau definitely hurt them, and some would benefit from a vote I feel.

That being said, I missed top 8 because I played against Alan, good friend, fellow ETC team member, and the guy that made it to the semi-finals and won the ITC season. That game was not a loss due to the Tau nerfs, it was a truly atrocious matchup and not one that tau handle very well, and it showed. Tau are still a good book, but they have been hit a bit hard in the rulings and would benefit from a second look going forward. I'm unsure the voting will help them out a lot as Tau have a smaller palyerbase than eldar or space marines, but it's definitely worth a shot.
Cheers to Reece and the FLG crew - it was a great event, ran extremely smoothly, and I had a blast.

As a Grey Knight player, my heartfelt sympathies for "how hard your book has been hurt". It's a real shame you couldn't go into the event with a full power codex.

I'm not sure how this kind of comment or sentiment is at all productive. Grey Knights spent years on top, and now they're suffering a bit for it as GW toned them down, or didn't continue increasing their power (you choose) and they've been left behind a bit. None of that has anything to do with the treatment of another book. The point is codices should be evaluated after testing, and treated equally, and if you were to examine Tau vs Eldar, Tau vs SM, Tau vs Ravenwing, Tau vs Demons, or Tau vs 5th Ed GKs, that's not the case. The important part here is not to start a community trend of 'new book sounds crazy, we must stop it!". Because frankly, they all sound crazy at first.

My post just clarified, 1) Tau are still good, even with some power downs,

2) the reason Tau missed top 8 since I was one of the players who nearly made it actually did *not* have anything to do with the nerfs, my game was lost due to other reasons unrelated to any faqs/nerfs/changes/what have you

and 3) Some of the power downs should likely come up for a vote, which the ITC folks have already said they plan to do post LVO. They needed an answer in time for LVO, and there wasn't time to vote it all - that's fine, they'll just do it in the coming months.

Edit: And as a sidenote, the other tau player vying for top 8 was Tom, who I played at the end of day 1 to a draw in KPs. His army was basically completely unaffected by the ITC faq, as he ran stormsurges/riptide wing/etc. He didn't use piranhas, ghostkeels, or coordinated firepower. He took a tough loss to a good opponent in the final round as well (Alex Fennel) with his necrons.

I'm not sure how this kind of comment or sentiment is at all productive. Grey Knights spent years on top, and now they're suffering a bit for it as GW toned them down, or didn't continue increasing their power (you choose) and they've been left behind a bit. None of that has anything to do with the treatment of another book.

I'm mostly just lamenting how it's a little silly for an army that's very much a 'have' to complain. None of the faqs were unreasonable given their last minute and temporary nature. Consider it a friendly jab .

Either way, it's great that you make those three points. Since those rulings, a small group of Tau players have been, well, making the rest of the Tau players look bad. I was chatting with some of the frontline guys, they've actually recieved death threat emails, as absurd as that it. Not that they think any are genuine, but it's kinda sad to think about.

@CKO
You've got a thread to complain about the ITC votes on tau. This isn't it.

@Darklink
Some of us still feel the pain of 5e PsyFileMan Dreadnaughts. To ease your pain, reminisce about 2012 and a No Hull Points 5e world, okay?

Love u, Gordy

- - - - - - - - - - - - -
On Topic:


The Good:
The smart play of having food in the venue to avoid hunting about for casino food. That was good.
Tables and Terrain. Great.
Scoring system (ipad/tablets)
Pairing times in between games and it being on line. No need to announce.
Judging Staff


The Bad:
a. We needed a free water carafe/station. Dinky, wee little, pricey bottles at the bar was horse poo.
b. The number set up as well as the Hard-to-Read Markers. Cool lookin' Elvis in power armor, but they required a close up and squint and often the light glared out the number. And how'd the cardinal count get split in mid-room? Printed numbers on paper are they way to go, and cheaper.
c. absence of s.w.a.g.
d. Far more importantly, where was Mariana?

To Improve:
Seth hollering announcements has to go. Even at the BAO venue, where the size was small enough for him to be heard, it's ineffective. As a teacher I know about making announcements to big groups of people and he does not have the technique (wait until people are actually paying attention) to be effective. Having attended the other two LVOs and three BAOs, he may as well save his voice.

Maybe a Twitter account for the officials to release statements?

Common Reece, you once acknowledged me as the "Loud Guy" and I'm pretty sure most folks heard me bellow Julio's name Round 2. You wanna make an announcement? You come to me.

 Brothererekose wrote:
@CKO
You've got a thread to complain about the ITC votes on tau. This isn't it.

why would I complain about Tau when I don't own a single model! Dude, I am not complaining I am trying to help I just pointed out some flaws. I talked about Tau because people started asking if Tau top 8. My post before me commenting on someone else post was mainly about Eldar and Necrons, look dude I win regardless if they vote to keep it one way I will use another army its not that big of a deal but, it is a major issue for other players. I am complaining out of courtesy for people that went out and spent close to 100 dollars for ghostkeels only to have it made weaker. Its still good and you can win with it but if I spend 390 for 3 of them I want to use the special rule 3 times I think that's fair. I am not complaining I am sorry I come off that way but its not the case.

This is caused because we are making post instead of talking in person, you would be able to tell the difference between me complaining and me pointing out why something is flawed if this was a face to face conversation. I have friends that think its fair because people vote on it and I am like that's absolutely false!

Typical British list won - you see a lot of spider spam here

Although it was a bummer about the Eldar vs Eldar final, it was totally awesome seeing the 5 Talos in there even if it was for the formation special rules. Nice thinking outside the box by Sean Nayden again!

I do think, as Target says, some of the rulings made just for this event should (and will!) but put up for vote in the next round of ITC voting, so hopefully that will tweak things a bit

Overall the online / streaming coverage they had of this event was awesome - thanks to everyone who was involved in that!!

Yeah, was a fantastic weekend to watch. Really happy to see the (relative) balance among the new books that have been released, at least in ITC's format. Really cool to see some very unique lists as well like those integrating Living Tomb and Corpsethief Claw.

Top 16 we saw:
War Convocation
Space Marines
Dark Angels
Space Wolves
Tau
Eldar
Necrons
Daemons
... and Dark Eldar??? lolol

I'm not sure where any Ork players ended up, but without a doubt way ahead of where they were without the Big Mek Stompa. Did any KDK make it into Top 16?

The stream was absolutely fantastic other than a few hiccups, and moderating chat was actually really easy... very little trolling other than perhaps a bit too much hate being thrown toward Steve Sisk.

Edit: Full results @ http://bcp.modelingforadvantage.com/event/lvo2016.

 Drinkgasoline wrote:
Typical British list won - you see a lot of spider spam here

The last game was close basically a tie decided by points remaining. However still impressive considering warp spiders are rightfully nerfed in the ITC to one jump a turn.

I'm still surprised at how well necrons did.

It's too bad kill points are less meaningful in the game now. So many events run objective heavy games making these spam units popular. Make Kill points bear heavy on games again and I think you will see much more balance. That marine list has almost 30 kill points and a crap ton of OS. I like the idea of the Razorbacks with all the shooting too but a list like that will struggle when KP become a major objective.

Sean's has been running that corpsethief formation for a while now. I ran into a few guys at Nova last year that stated he was running it and kicking butt with it. It has soooo much shooting and is also harsh in CC. It was another good find by Sean heheh

Frankie was playing Corpsethief Claw before switching to WS Gladius and Tau. Solid formation, easily wins games by itself.

What was Aaron Aleong doing with Azrael? I see that as a non-meta choice in Wolfstar.

Also, which war host core is this? One of the FW ones? I feel the Craftworld book taxes in more Vypers?

Breazeal wrote:
Also, which war host core is this? One of the FW ones? I feel the Craftworld book taxes in more Vypers?

Yeah, that's one of the new FW ones. It's 1 Farseer, 3 Guardian Defender units, 0-1 Warlock councils, but then you choose a "discipline" that changes the Guardians to 0-3 and makes 3 Aspect Warriors mandatory. So he put in Warp Spiders, which makes sense.

I think they messed up in the article and those D-Cannon Batteries were in the CAD.

I got crushed by Alex Harrison's warp spider list. He is a solid player.

Azrael gives the wolfstar a 4++.

I was very impressed by the logistical aspects of the tournament. The signs were a tad tricky though.

The water situation was not good. I know they got billed a TON of money one of the years for running water in the venue so maybe that factored in.

I know the itc mission structure is popular, but going second is so unbelievably over powered especially with that volume of terrain. I hope FLG continues to make positive changes to the mission structure.

eltrain728 wrote:
I got crushed by Alex Harrison's warp spider list. He is a solid player.

Azrael gives the wolfstar a 4++.

I was very impressed by the logistical aspects of the tournament. The signs were a tad tricky though.

The water situation was not good. I know they got billed a TON of money one of the years for running water in the venue so maybe that factored in.

I know the itc mission structure is popular, but going second is so unbelievably over powered especially with that volume of terrain. I hope FLG continues to make positive changes to the mission structure.

I think going to the book version of Maelstrom for scoring at the end of the player Turn would be a good way forward. Then going second still gives you the advantage in scoring the primary mission, but everyone has an equal chance at the Maelstrom.

The Maelstrom missions could use a little re-working too in my opinion. The current iteration makes static armies useless. The modified Maelstrom where cards are used, but scoring is done on a turn by turn basis for turn wins is an excellent approach in my opinion. It allows armies to use their special Maelstrom cards to do some of the scoring as well.

Anyone know what was in the War Convocation list?

Surprised there weren't any Knight lists higher up. I know they have some hard counters, but I have found 3 Knight armies to be really hard for lots of opponents to deal with.

I love ya FLG. This was a great event and I have some good memories. I didnt want to complain, but there are some situations I found that made it less enjoyable
1: water. It is damn hot in there. And 5$ for water that is the size of a soda can? People where filling those things up in the bathroom. Thats just wrong. Outside water should be allowed.
2: food. Im sorry but 15 for soggy chicken and soft waffle fries is just sad. Get better food or make it significantly cheaper. I was told vegas is expensive, but combos are the food court where better priced and tasted good.

 Stormcrow wrote:
Anyone know what was in the War Convocation list?

The highest ranked one was incontrol, he's list is in one of those live blog posts on frontlinegaming.

I'm interested in Michael Snider's necron list, I don't think it's been published anywhere. He seems to have narrowly missed the top 8, or so I'd assume as he's tied with Aleong (who made it with one loss) in the final scores.

Anyone know the highest ranking tyranid and what list he/she was playing? Cant find any lists more then the top 8 on the flg-site.

http://www.bestcoastpairings.com/r/lvo2016

Looks like the top Nid player was 43rd, they don't have lists for anything past 8th though.

Thank you. Ill have to creep the net for list/pictures then i guess.

While the food/water situation wasn't great and was the only negative for me, it was easy to get to the food court right in the hotel which was solid. Contracts for these places can be crazy, and if expensive water is the tradeoff for being in Ballys which was a huge upgrade from the Flamingo, I'm all for it. It was seriously a great venue and event space/hotel. Definitely one of my favorite events I've been to in a couple years, and had a ton of stuff for the wife and I to do as well.

What other event could I game during the day, and still do a helicopter tour of the grand canyon, cirque du soleil show at night, and a couple great dinners at excellent restaurants with large groups, plus all the rest that Vegas offers.

Will the ITC post all the lists in the tournament? If they don't want to can they at least mail me the lists and I'll spend the time typing them all up and matching them with placements and the like.

Target wrote:
While the food/water situation wasn't great and was the only negative for me, it was easy to get to the food court right in the hotel which was solid. Contracts for these places can be crazy, and if expensive water is the tradeoff for being in Ballys which was a huge upgrade from the Flamingo, I'm all for it. It was seriously a great venue and event space/hotel. Definitely one of my favorite events I've been to in a couple years, and had a ton of stuff for the wife and I to do as well.

What other event could I game during the day, and still do a helicopter tour of the grand canyon, cirque du soleil show at night, and a couple great dinners at excellent restaurants with large groups, plus all the rest that Vegas offers.

It was also almost triple the price to stay at ballys vs the flamingo

SocksOfDeath wrote:

Target wrote:
While the food/water situation wasn't great and was the only negative for me, it was easy to get to the food court right in the hotel which was solid. Contracts for these places can be crazy, and if expensive water is the tradeoff for being in Ballys which was a huge upgrade from the Flamingo, I'm all for it. It was seriously a great venue and event space/hotel. Definitely one of my favorite events I've been to in a couple years, and had a ton of stuff for the wife and I to do as well.

What other event could I game during the day, and still do a helicopter tour of the grand canyon, cirque du soleil show at night, and a couple great dinners at excellent restaurants with large groups, plus all the rest that Vegas offers.

It was also almost triple the price to stay at ballys vs the flamingo

I believe Flamingo was 79 whereas Bally's was 99 (+ hotel resort fees), but part of the reason for the price inflation had something to do with the Super Bowl being on the same weekend.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tinkrr wrote:
Will the ITC post all the lists in the tournament? If they don't want to can they at least mail me the lists and I'll spend the time typing them all up and matching them with placements and the like.

No, ITC did not take lists from the competitors.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

T.nid wrote:
Anyone know the highest ranking tyranid and what list he/she was playing? Cant find any lists more then the top 8 on the flg-site.

I don't know what the best Tyranid players's list was, but I do know the 2nd best Tyranid players' list. He came in at 48th, just 2-pts behind the Best Nid player, and he ran 5 Flyrants, 2 lictors, malanthrope, 3 Mawlocs and mucolids.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MLKTH wrote:

 Stormcrow wrote:
Anyone know what was in the War Convocation list?

The highest ranked one was incontrol, he's list is in one of those live blog posts on frontlinegaming.

I'm interested in Michael Snider's necron list, I don't think it's been published anywhere. He seems to have narrowly missed the top 8, or so I'd assume as he's tied with Aleong (who made it with one loss) in the final scores.

Actually, the highest ranked War Convo list at the LVO was Ben Cromwell, who ran 2 Imperial Knights along with his standard War Convo list. INcontrol was the top Admech player for the season but not at the LVO.

Michael Snider ran something along the lines of: Decurion + 2 Canoptek Harvests.

There were 3 ties for 8th, Michael, Aaron and Tyler Devries. Aaron advance due to a tougher strength of schedule.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Requizen wrote:
Surprised there weren't any Knight lists higher up. I know they have some hard counters, but I have found 3 Knight armies to be really hard for lots of opponents to deal with.

I actually played against a 3-Knight list. They blew away my 1 knight on Turn 1! I was basically playing that game with a 1400 list against an 1850 list. Lol. Anyways the knight lists were usually either 5 knights or just 1 knight. 3 knight lists just wasn't as common for some strange reason.

 kloma wrote:
Someone English is winning it

Freaking called it!

What jy2 said - flamingo was 80 per night, this was high 90's. Thats hardly triple, in my book they were almost the same price while the quality was infinitely better

Last year i paid $290 for 4 nights at the flamingo. This year i paid $570 for 4 nights. Not quite double, but close.

Michael snider's list was:

Decurion
160 overlord with void reaper, res orb, phase shifter
85 5 imortals gauss
130 10 warriors
105 ghost ark
130 10 warriors
105 ghost ark
132 6 tomb blades neb scope, shieldvane
110 5 tomb blades neb scope, shieldvane
110 5 tomb blades neb scope, shieldvane
65 5 flayed ones

Canoptek harvest
50 canoptek spyder
60 3 canoptek scarabs
249 6 canoptek wraiths 3 whip coils

Canoptek harvest
50 canoptek spyder
30 3 canoptek scarabs
60 6 canoptek wraiths 3 whip coils

GreaterGouda wrote:
Last year i paid $290 for 4 nights at the flamingo. This year i paid $570 for 4 nights. Not quite double, but close.

Michael snider's list was:

Decurion
160 overlord with void reaper, res orb, phase shifter
85 5 imortals gauss
130 10 warriors
105 ghost ark
130 10 warriors
105 ghost ark
132 6 tomb blades neb scope, shieldvane
110 5 tomb blades neb scope, shieldvane
110 5 tomb blades neb scope, shieldvane
65 5 flayed ones

Canoptek harvest
50 canoptek spyder
60 3 canoptek scarabs
249 6 canoptek wraiths 3 whip coils

Canoptek harvest
50 canoptek spyder
30 3 canoptek scarabs
60 6 canoptek wraiths 3 whip coils

Did you play against him? Curious as to what his tactics were against certain armies. 2 units of Wraiths is pretty nice until you come up against Grav spam or GCs/SHVs, at which point they lose a lot of their scariness.

Also, 5 FOs feels a lot like "I had 65 points left over and no other models" haha.