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What was the Daemon list? Summoning shenanigans? Flying Circus? Loads of Houds?

I played him in round 6. He deployed his army just out of my shooting range and behind los blocking terrain. Then moved all the wraiths up behind los block terrain turn 1. And then crashed my lines turn 2. His army was super resilient. I played the mission entirely wrong and decided to take first turn like a noob. He out flanked the flayed ones. He said they were his line breaker squad. He had a great army, was a great opponent, and i hope to meet him on the table next year.

 Lou_Cypher wrote:
What was the Daemon list? Summoning shenanigans? Flying Circus? Loads of Houds?

Alan brought Screamerstar, Be'lakor, Fateweaver, and the D-thirster. Premise is simple - Screamerstar runs around summoning things, everything buffs the D-thirster so it's Invisible, 3++, and whatever other powers/rewards it rolls.

Unfortunately, in the semi-finals game, he got -1 to invulns on Warp Storm and the Screamerstar died to mass Warp Spider on T2. He nearly brought it back by just flying around Psychic-ing out the MSU while the D-thirster was still Invisible and killing things, but that hit was pretty damaging.

 jy2 wrote:

 MLKTH wrote:


The highest ranked one was incontrol, he's list is in one of those live blog posts on frontlinegaming.

Actually, the highest ranked War Convo list at the LVO was Ben Cromwell, who ran 2 Imperial Knights along with his standard War Convo list. INcontrol was the top Admech player for the season but not at the LVO.

That's just down to strength of schedule or some other tie breaker, right? They're tied at 13th place with (50)48 points.

Also, thanks GreaterGouda!

 jy2 wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
Will the ITC post all the lists in the tournament? If they don't want to can they at least mail me the lists and I'll spend the time typing them all up and matching them with placements and the like.

No, ITC did not take lists from the competitors.

Blaaaaaaarg. I really hate how hard it is to track down good data with 40k events, having both the best and worst lists is vital to doing analysis... At least the top 50 would be helpful, as the top 8 is a microscopic amount of data.

GIVE ME YOUR LIST! GIVE IT TO ME NOW! I NEEDS IT!

GreaterGouda wrote:
I played him in round 6. He deployed his army just out of my shooting range and behind los blocking terrain. Then moved all the wraiths up behind los block terrain turn 1. And then crashed my lines turn 2. His army was super resilient. I played the mission entirely wrong and decided to take first turn like a noob. He out flanked the flayed ones. He said they were his line breaker squad. He had a great army, was a great opponent, and i hope to meet him on the table next year.

What were you playing?

One thing I notice about the ITC tables is just the pure amount of LOC blocking terrain. Adepticon runs a lot of area terrain, but generally only 1 or 2 things that can actually block sight to models, and rarely big models at that. If Wraiths can block high amounts of fire with terrain, they're basically unstoppable.

And yeah, Flayed Ones are so good, but depends on the matchup.

I was playing tau. My list was :

Drone net
16 marker drones

Ghostkeel wing
3 ghostkeel with ion raker, tl fusion and ewo

Riptide wing
5 riptides 3 ion 2 burst all ewo all sms 3 with fnp and 5 missile drones to defend against grav.

I really miss played my game against mike. I will know what to do next time though.

 MLKTH wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 MLKTH wrote:


The highest ranked one was incontrol, he's list is in one of those live blog posts on frontlinegaming.

Actually, the highest ranked War Convo list at the LVO was Ben Cromwell, who ran 2 Imperial Knights along with his standard War Convo list. INcontrol was the top Admech player for the season but not at the LVO.

That's just down to strength of schedule or some other tie breaker, right? They're tied at 13th place with (50)48 points.

Also, thanks GreaterGouda!

Yes. Tiebreaker was strength of schedule. Geoff lost Round 1 and got paired down. Ben didn't lose until Round 4 so had to play tougher opponents.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Requizen wrote:

GreaterGouda wrote:
I played him in round 6. He deployed his army just out of my shooting range and behind los blocking terrain. Then moved all the wraiths up behind los block terrain turn 1. And then crashed my lines turn 2. His army was super resilient. I played the mission entirely wrong and decided to take first turn like a noob. He out flanked the flayed ones. He said they were his line breaker squad. He had a great army, was a great opponent, and i hope to meet him on the table next year.

What were you playing?

One thing I notice about the ITC tables is just the pure amount of LOC blocking terrain. Adepticon runs a lot of area terrain, but generally only 1 or 2 things that can actually block sight to models, and rarely big models at that. If Wraiths can block high amounts of fire with terrain, they're basically unstoppable.

And yeah, Flayed Ones are so good, but depends on the matchup.

The LVO generally has 2 main pieces of larger BLOS terrain per table. There could be smaller ones but those are a little more random and you really can't hide larger units behind them.

GreaterGouda wrote:
Last year i paid $290 for 4 nights at the flamingo. This year i paid $570 for 4 nights. Not quite double, but close.

Michael snider's list was:

Decurion
160 overlord with void reaper, res orb, phase shifter
85 5 imortals gauss
130 10 warriors
105 ghost ark
130 10 warriors
105 ghost ark
132 6 tomb blades neb scope, shieldvane
110 5 tomb blades neb scope, shieldvane
110 5 tomb blades neb scope, shieldvane
65 5 flayed ones

Canoptek harvest
50 canoptek spyder
60 3 canoptek scarabs
249 6 canoptek wraiths 3 whip coils

Canoptek harvest
50 canoptek spyder
30 3 canoptek scarabs
60 6 canoptek wraiths 3 whip coils

The price increase is what kept me from being able to attend this year. However, that isn't FLGs fault, Vegas is notoriously hard to book and they don't control the Super Bowl weekend or the weekend(s) available to them within their price point. Hopefully next year it will go back to a non super bowl weekend, but it really is out of their hands in many ways.

I made it a mission to go to vegas this year. I hated missing the second. It SUCKED. my friend let me stay in his room free of charge.
Im convincing my family to all come next time, so we split a room. im sure we can cram 10 people in a room.

Hey guys, since the FLG folks didn't collect army lists, and I want to get as much data as possible, can you please PM me your list and final standing (name doesn't hurt too) for the LVO if you were there? Any little bit helps, hopefully together we can at least fill out the top 50(53) players which had the following break down:



I obviously have access to the top 8, and a few random people in the top 53 who had their lists posted during coverage, but as a whole there are a lot of gaps D:

 Tinkrr wrote:
Hey guys, since the FLG folks didn't collect army lists, and I want to get as much data as possible, can you please PM me your list and final standing (name doesn't hurt too) for the LVO if you were there? Any little bit helps, hopefully together we can at least fill out the top 50(53) players which had the following break down:

Spoiler:

Eldar (13): 26%
Tau (7): 11%
Space Marines (7): 11%
Necrons (5): 9.4%
Dark Angels (5 out of 11 players): 9.4%
Renegades (5 out of 7 players!): 9.4%
Cult Mech (3): 5.6%
Daemons (3): 5.6%
Tyranids (2): 3.7%
Grey Knights (1): 1.8%
CSM (1): 1.8%
Inquisition (1): 1.8%
SoBs (1): 1.8%
Dark Eldar (1): 1.8%

I obviously have access to the top 8, and a few random people in the top 53 who had their lists posted during coverage, but as a whole there are a lot of gaps D:

What's your obsession with knowing so many of the lists?

 OverwatchCNC wrote:

The price increase is what kept me from being able to attend this year. However, that isn't FLGs fault, Vegas is notoriously hard to book and they don't control the Super Bowl weekend or the weekend(s) available to them within their price point. Hopefully next year it will go back to a non super bowl weekend, but it really is out of their hands in many ways.

Yeah, this is why the food/water in the convention center was so expensive. The hotel basically told Frontline 1) absolutely no outside food or drink allowed in and that's completely non-negotiable, 2) if they wanted to hotel to provide water, it would be on the order of ~$20,000 for the weekend, 3) if they found too many people sneaking drinks or snacks in they would charge frontline for it, and 4) if the hotel caterers didn't sell X amount of food, they would charge frontline the difference. Since there weren't any other venues that were both available and large enough to accommodate the LVO, frontline didn't have much of a choice.

 OverwatchCNC wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
Hey guys, since the FLG folks didn't collect army lists, and I want to get as much data as possible, can you please PM me your list and final standing (name doesn't hurt too) for the LVO if you were there? Any little bit helps, hopefully together we can at least fill out the top 50(53) players which had the following break down:

Spoiler:

Eldar (13): 26%
Tau (7): 11%
Space Marines (7): 11%
Necrons (5): 9.4%
Dark Angels (5 out of 11 players): 9.4%
Renegades (5 out of 7 players!): 9.4%
Cult Mech (3): 5.6%
Daemons (3): 5.6%
Tyranids (2): 3.7%
Grey Knights (1): 1.8%
CSM (1): 1.8%
Inquisition (1): 1.8%
SoBs (1): 1.8%
Dark Eldar (1): 1.8%

I obviously have access to the top 8, and a few random people in the top 53 who had their lists posted during coverage, but as a whole there are a lot of gaps D:

What's your obsession with knowing so many of the lists?

Knowledge is power?

I'm a Magic player, specifically a Vintage player, the Vintage community is about as small as the 40k community, and frankly it publishes every list ever on their version of Frontline Gaming or Dakka Dakka (The Manadrain) when an event is reported. It's a huge help to understanding the format as a whole and a great place to start for new players or players returning after a break, more so it's good for old players as they can see what's happening in the game as a whole.

I wouldn't just keep this to myself obviously, I'd set up some way for others to view it, because sharing this kind of information is vital. Though really it's just that, it's about studying trends, looking at meta changes, and more. The more informed we are as players, the better we can make the ITC after all.

Edit: Heck, I didn't even know Renegades were a thing until this event, just imagine having five lists from them too look at, or more? Also, others on here have requested some of these lists for their own interests, so that would help them too.

 DarkLink wrote:

 OverwatchCNC wrote:

The price increase is what kept me from being able to attend this year. However, that isn't FLGs fault, Vegas is notoriously hard to book and they don't control the Super Bowl weekend or the weekend(s) available to them within their price point. Hopefully next year it will go back to a non super bowl weekend, but it really is out of their hands in many ways.

Yeah, this is why the food/water in the convention center was so expensive. The hotel basically told Frontline 1) absolutely no outside food or drink allowed in and that's completely non-negotiable, 2) if they wanted to hotel to provide water, it would be on the order of ~$20,000 for the weekend, 3) if they found too many people sneaking drinks or snacks in they would charge frontline for it, and 4) if the hotel caterers didn't sell X amount of food, they would charge frontline the difference. Since there weren't any other venues that were both available and large enough to accommodate the LVO, frontline didn't have much of a choice.

I know that, but the least they could have done was sell good food. what we got was overpriced and just stuff we threw away at the food places
My hotdog had a stale bun and was undercooked, I was 5 minutes away from a match so I couldnt have done that.
My chicken was well, stale and cold.
Waffle Fries where just disgusting, no flavor.
The beer was the most decently priced thing in the hall
And whenever I walked by, I could smell the stuff they where heating.
I had a great weekend gaming, wonderfully great that i wouldnt trade for the world. But the food situation being so lackluster is a bit bad, I was getting better deals downstairs.

 DarkLink wrote:
Yeah, this is why the food/water in the convention center was so expensive. The hotel basically told Frontline 1) absolutely no outside food or drink allowed in and that's completely non-negotiable,

2) if they wanted to hotel to provide water, it would be on the order of ~$20,000 for the weekend,

3) if they found too many people sneaking drinks or snacks in they would charge frontline for it, and 4) if the hotel caterers didn't sell X amount of food, they would charge frontline the difference. Since there weren't any other venues that were both available and large enough to accommodate the LVO, frontline didn't have much of a choice.

That has got to be wrong. An extra zero, surely.

As for the 1, 3 and 4, yeah, I can see a venue being nasty to that degree.

@hotsauceman
For mass produced food, in warmers, it was on par. Already on top of a few beers, the hot dogs were fine. Tasty, like at a ball game.

well I didnt drink during the weekend. I just felt that for what we where paying, we should have gotten better.

 Brothererekose wrote:

 DarkLink wrote:
Yeah, this is why the food/water in the convention center was so expensive. The hotel basically told Frontline 1) absolutely no outside food or drink allowed in and that's completely non-negotiable,

2) if they wanted to hotel to provide water, it would be on the order of ~$20,000 for the weekend,

3) if they found too many people sneaking drinks or snacks in they would charge frontline for it, and 4) if the hotel caterers didn't sell X amount of food, they would charge frontline the difference. Since there weren't any other venues that were both available and large enough to accommodate the LVO, frontline didn't have much of a choice.

That has got to be wrong. An extra zero, surely.

As for the 1, 3 and 4, yeah, I can see a venue being nasty to that degree.

@hotsauceman
For mass produced food, in warmers, it was on par. Already on top of a few beers, the hot dogs were fine. Tasty, like at a ball game.

No, that 20,000 quote was direct from Reece. I still have trouble believing it, but, it is Vegas...

If accurate, it's probably because Vegas is in the desert and is always short on water. The nova open Hyatt does water all over the halls for free ... and is next to DC/the Potomac river. Geography plays a role in everything, unfortunately. I'm sure Reece would have paid for the water if it was only a couple grand.

IDK, all I know is that people where filling bottles up in the bathroom so.....yeah

Does no one here possess army bags? Drop army off in hall, take bag out with you, keep layer of troops for top, add drinks to interior. Success, and bank account that still has cash in it.

GreyDragoon wrote:
Does no one here possess army bags? Drop army off in hall, take bag out with you, keep layer of troops for top, add drinks to interior. Success, and bank account that still has cash in it.

Oh good, we're back to this again. Good to see people are still scheming to beat the House after the event is over.

Who said after it was over. Told folks to do this well beforehand earlier in the thread Loch Just shocked people still end up with the same griefs after the fact even when they've been told what to do if they aren't going to buy there.

BTW I'd still always suggest every player that drinks there buy one or two in the hall just to support the folks manning the bar if nothing else.

This ain't my first rodeo and each day I took three large gatorade bottles in my backpack.

The hotel tries to make as much money as possible and they know that if they will make money by either having FLG pay for providing water, or by selling it.

As far as food goes, long ago I learned to eat a big breakfast and never worry about lunch. A lot of times there is not even time to eat with games going long, or when you have a late tournament start because of dealing with pairings, or registration, etc, and it will always be the lunch time that is the first thing to be cut to get the event back on time.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tinkrr wrote:
Hey guys, since the FLG folks didn't collect army lists, and I want to get as much data as possible, can you please PM me your list and final standing (name doesn't hurt too) for the LVO if you were there? Any little bit helps, hopefully together we can at least fill out the top 50(53) players which had the following break down:

Spoiler:

Eldar (13): 26%
Tau (7): 11%
Space Marines (7): 11%
Necrons (5): 9.4%
Dark Angels (5 out of 11 players): 9.4%
Renegades (5 out of 7 players!): 9.4%
Cult Mech (3): 5.6%
Daemons (3): 5.6%
Tyranids (2): 3.7%
Grey Knights (1): 1.8%
CSM (1): 1.8%
Inquisition (1): 1.8%
SoBs (1): 1.8%
Dark Eldar (1): 1.8%

I obviously have access to the top 8, and a few random people in the top 53 who had their lists posted during coverage, but as a whole there are a lot of gaps D:

Allan Hernandez 19th place Eldar,. I will send you my list when I get unlazy.

The food was expensive, like at an amusement park. Unsurprising to me. But thats why I went to the food court that was 2 minutes away. Johnny Rocjet Burger and Shake... holy gak... ambrosia. <$20.

What was surprising was how slick and fast the pairings were and the way we entered our scores. Super tight system. They weren't Apple Inc, but pretty friggin good.

Also to my surprise how many damn orks! Holy crap it was awesome to see them. Varied lists too. Most were variations of Buzzgob + X. Where X was dread mob, zhardsnarks bikers, bully boys (me), etc. However there was one gent from Sac who I got to play that took the tide and no Stompa. Crazh thing was it was my first game against another ork player.... Ever.

My first LVO in 2014 was pretty homogenous. 2015 was SUPER homo... every game.... EVERY game was vs Eldar or Imoerial Knights, or both.

2016 was awesome. Varied lists... super good games all very close:
1.) Raven Wing + TWC + Dark Angels
2.) Orks Green Tide
3.) Novel Eldar (no knight or bikes... Vibrocannons and swooping hawks)
4.) Gladius Ultra
5.) Quad Mortar Batteries on Skyshield + Conclave
6.) Dual Storm Surge + GhostKeel + Drone Formation

The hardest match up was game 1. I got BRUTALIZED. I felt like I needed counseling after. Ended 3 Wins 3 Losses. My 5th GT and best ratio...

Thanks Frontline. Epic fun. Thanks to my opponents. Gentlemen one and all.

I lost to Jonathan Camacho's Obelisk Necrons list Round 6. I needed a win to make top 8 with my Battle Company. Jon needed a 11pt win to make Top 8 since he had lost Round 2 to another Battle Company in the Relic Mission. He maxed out every other Round that he won.

We roll off to see who goes first and he wins the roll and makes me go first. Being all obsec to his list having 0 I really wanted second turn. Easier to contest maelstrom pts and last chance to decide which objectives need to be contested at last turn of game. One thing that was huge was that he null deployed and I did too. When my 4 Drop Pods came in, he used the Deathmarks to kill a unit for 1st Blood. I also was behind on Maelstrom because I rolled the Kill a unit Maelstrom and there wasn't anything to kill or it just wouldn't die. On his turn 2 his whole army came in but his Obelisk mishap'd and went back into Reserve. Thus denying me the ability to drop my Meltas after it comes and I also lose the chance of catching up on Maelstrom with the LoW pts. Him going 2nd I knew it was pretty much game over at the end of Turn 2. He had lead on Maelstrom, Last chance at objs at end of game and had 1st Blood. I tried to at least win Crusade by moving Khan transport into an obj but on his turn he surrounds it with Tomb Blades, Obelisk and Deathmarks and once the tank got wrecked I lost Khan and his unit. Giving him the 11/11Max pts. I could've been cagey and tied Primary and hiding Khan to deny him 5 Battle Points but Id lose anyway. It was an awesome event. I had a blast and xame so close to Top 8. 1 win away. I won my first 4 Rounds. Vs Space Wolves Thunderstar, Eldar, SM Gladius, Eldar/DE and Round 5 I drew against Top 8 Brad Chester's Eldar List with 30 Warp Spiders and FW Wraithknight. I ended in 36/295 with a 4-1-1 Record. Making Top 8 would've solidified Best Space Marines in the ITC but it wasn't meant to be. Til next season.

MVBrandt wrote:
If accurate, it's probably because Vegas is in the desert and is always short on water. The nova open Hyatt does water all over the halls for free ... and is next to DC/the Potomac river. Geography plays a role in everything, unfortunately. I'm sure Reece would have paid for the water if it was only a couple grand.

Short on water, and notorious for price gouging in every other aspect of its existence. I don't recall the number Reece quoted, but the water at previous LVOs cost Frontline a pretty penny as well. They were small enough events that the numbers worked out and frontline ciuld cover the cost. Not this year, though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

GreyDragoon wrote:
Who said after it was over. Told folks to do this well beforehand earlier in the thread Loch Just shocked people still end up with the same griefs after the fact even when they've been told what to do if they aren't going to buy there.

BTW I'd still always suggest every player that drinks there buy one or two in the hall just to support the folks manning the bar if nothing else.

It's also worth noting that Frontline was on the hook for the catering and drinks, so it's supporting frontline as well.

The way hotels work for the catering/drinks, is your attendees need to purchase a minimum. If they don't, you cover the difference. If they do, the hotel is happy and you don't pay extra for it as the organizers. Ironically/sadly, you don't get a cut.

So, FLG would have been on the hook for any amount below the (usually 4 hour block) minimums not hit by attendees patronizing the in-hall food options.

Very cool to do that, as well - it's high risk. NOVA got around it via our location and pulling a charitable ABC license w/ the charity lounge. Short of that, you either give your attendees nothing or you put yourself financially at risk to give them in-hall food/drink options. Definitely worth people being aware of and giving a little thanks to LVO for.

 Julnlecs wrote:
I lost to Jonathan Camacho's Obelisk Necrons list Round 6. I needed a win to make top 8 with my Battle Company. Jon needed a 11pt win to make Top 8 since he had lost Round 2 to another Battle Company in the Relic Mission. He maxed out every other Round that he won.

We roll off to see who goes first and he wins the roll and makes me go first. Being all obsec to his list having 0 I really wanted second turn. Easier to contest maelstrom pts and last chance to decide which objectives need to be contested at last turn of game. One thing that was huge was that he null deployed and I did too. When my 4 Drop Pods came in, he used the Deathmarks to kill a unit for 1st Blood. I also was behind on Maelstrom because I rolled the Kill a unit Maelstrom and there wasn't anything to kill or it just wouldn't die. On his turn 2 his whole army came in but his Obelisk mishap'd and went back into Reserve. Thus denying me the ability to drop my Meltas after it comes and I also lose the chance of catching up on Maelstrom with the LoW pts. Him going 2nd I knew it was pretty much game over at the end of Turn 2. He had lead on Maelstrom, Last chance at objs at end of game and had 1st Blood. I tried to at least win Crusade by moving Khan transport into an obj but on his turn he surrounds it with Tomb Blades, Obelisk and Deathmarks and once the tank got wrecked I lost Khan and his unit. Giving him the 11/11Max pts. I could've been cagey and tied Primary and hiding Khan to deny him 5 Battle Points but Id lose anyway. It was an awesome event. I had a blast and xame so close to Top 8. 1 win away. I won my first 4 Rounds. Vs Space Wolves Thunderstar, Eldar, SM Gladius, Eldar/DE and Round 5 I drew against Top 8 Brad Chester's Eldar List with 30 Warp Spiders and FW Wraithknight. I ended in 36/295 with a 4-1-1 Record. Making Top 8 would've solidified Best Space Marines in the ITC but it wasn't meant to be. Til next season.

Thanks for the rundown! Makes me smile to see off-meta lists work really well.

It sounds like null-deploy was the name of the game at LVO. I wonder if that's because of the missions for the event or those types of lists are just extremely strong atm.

I think it's a combination of how powerful alpha strike armies are, plus how playing to the mission means you want to go second. Null deployment lets you dodge some alpha strikes while still getting the second turn for the mission.