Incident during Traffic Stop in Texas - Death While In Police Custody Under Investigation

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Jihadin**

I've scars on my wrists and up my arms. Does not mean I have suicidal thoughts/tendencies though

**CptJake**

I have a lot of Suicidal Tendencies.

Their early releases are some of my favorite discs to listen to when driving long distances.

**-Shrike-**

If she was in handcuffs, wouldn't there be red marks on her wrists anyway (when they're taking them off, as that's what we're discussing here)?

**Desubot**

-Shrike- wrote:
If she was in handcuffs, wouldn't there be red marks on her wrists anyway (when they're taking them off, as that's what we're discussing here)?

It probably wouldn't cause scabs. and scabs would mean the cuts on here wrist are recent.

meaning she had been recently having suicidal episodes.

The stress of getting locked up might of set her off again.

IMO

**generalgrog**

This woman is dead, because of a racial profiling traffic stop...period

Is this what the arresting officer wanted? Probably not...but he pulled over the wrong person, who wasn't willing to be a sheeple. The officer should be fired for this incompetent, uncontrolled stop.

1)He pulled her over for "illegal lane change", when in fact he was the one who instigated her lane change.
2)He asked her if she was irritated...this was an instigatory question/act. In fact it was entirely possible he was doing what he was trained to do, in an effort to gain a response, so he could goad her into a situation whereby he could search her vehicle. Get her agitated to he can trump up a "reasonable suspicion".
3) He does have the right ask her to exit her vehicle, and in which case she should have complied, and sued the department later for violation of her civil rights. (racial profiling) Unfortunately for her, she did not have the self control to keep herself safe, from predatory policing practices such as what we see here. I.E. with her belligerent attitude she played right into the officers hands.
4) She was recording the officer, and he made her put her phone down...not sure if this was an illegal request of the officer at this point or not.
5) Officer knowingly took the lady out of view range of the dash cam...and you can hear him abusing her, throwing her to the ground, applying pressure to her handcuffs behind her back.
6) Officer asked bystander to stop recording the interaction...illegal to ask him to stop, unless he was interfering, which there is no evidence of this. That guy is going to release his recording at some point, and I don't think it will look favorably on the officer.

This is just another example of gestapo style policing in our country, and I'm sick of seeing this happen over and over.

GG

**-Shrike-**

Desubot wrote:
-Shrike- wrote:
If she was in handcuffs, wouldn't there be red marks on her wrists anyway (when they're taking them off, as that's what we're discussing here)?

It probably wouldn't cause scabs. and scabs would mean the cuts on here wrist are recent.

meaning she had been recently having suicidal episodes.

The stress of getting locked up might of set her off again.

IMO

I agree with everything you said, but maybe I wasn't clear enough.

I meant that if there were red marks on her wrists from the handcuffs, any scabs or scars wouldn't stand out as much, and would be harder to notice from a quick glance when taking the handcuffs off.

**timetowaste85**

So...I just wanna see if I understand correctly, based on the posts I read here...

Woman is belligerent at traffic stop
Discussion/interaction with cop leads to her arrest
She is taken to jail and put in a cell
Dead by hanging with a bag
Has a suicide record but says she doesn't have one
She must have obviously been murdered because the cop didn't like her.

Did I get the jist of it?

**Desubot**

timetowaste85 wrote:
So...I just wanna see if I understand correctly, based on the posts I read here...

Woman is belligerent at traffic stop
Discussion/interaction with cop leads to her arrest
She is taken to jail and put in a cell
Dead by hanging with a bag
Has a suicide record but says she doesn't have one
She must have obviously been murdered because the cop didn't like her.

Did I get the jist of it?

Im pretty sure the last line is were people are split.

And or some think this is a coverup because an officer might of done something illegal or in a grey area. or something.

**Psienesis**

Desubot wrote:
-Shrike- wrote:
If she was in handcuffs, wouldn't there be red marks on her wrists anyway (when they're taking them off, as that's what we're discussing here)?

It probably wouldn't cause scabs. and scabs would mean the cuts on here wrist are recent.

meaning she had been recently having suicidal episodes.

The stress of getting locked up might of set her off again.

IMO

Or had recently scraped her arms on the inside of the cuffs (which happens regularly), especially if the arresting officer tightens them too much (a distinct possibility, considered his agitated state).

**timetowaste85**

Okay, so watching one of the videos and reading every post in the thread now...
He goes to hand her a ticket and notices she's upset. She agrees and says because he pulled her over for the lane change. He asks her to put out her cigarette while they talk, she gives him attitude, and a couple places saying she breathed smoke in his face (There has been TONS of talk about second hand smoke causing lung cancer). I could easily see that being labeled "assault". Hell, I tried to punch out a college roommate who blew a hit of pot into my face. Some people, myself included, do not appreciate having something like that done. His asking her to step out of the car is probably nicer than I would have done; I'd have cursed up a storm at her.

The rest is where it seems to have gone to crap. Up until the events that took place after she was removed from the car, I'm fully with the policeman. He's still an officer of the law, and some respect should have been shown to him. It falls under the rule of "don't be a dick".

And I swear to God, if anyone tries to say I support the terrible tragedy that ended up happening to her or say that "she deserved it", I will yellow triangle the crap out of you until the mods ban you for life. What happened is awful. If she committed suicide, the station should deal with the consequences of negligence. If they murdered her and tried to cover it up and it's found out, they should serve a murder sentence.

All I'm prepared to say at the moment is that I fully support the officer in question until the events that take place AFTER she is out of the car.

I'm drawing it out so much so the people who are willing to jump to serious conclusions about cop-support have it verbally bludgeoned into their skulls where my opinion stands.

**Psienesis**

1) Cop says, "Do you mind putting your cigarette out?". That's a request, Bland is fully within her rights to say "no" and keep smoking.

2) The order to step out of the car? This is a grey area. While a police officer has the right to ask you to step out of the vehicle under the Fourth Amendment, the First Amendment gets involved here, too. What was the purpose of asking her to step out? It's possible he ordered her out for safety reasons, or to smell less smoke, which is legit. It's also possible that he ordered her out as a retaliatory measure for refusing to put her cigarette out... which is not.

The problem here is the latter event is very hard to prove, since, especially after the fact, the police are provided plenty of time to come up with valid reasons, under the Fourth Amendment, to justify the order... whether those reasons existed at the time of the order or not.

**cincydooley**

generalgrog wrote:
This woman is dead, because of a racial profiling traffic stop...period

GG

No, the woman is dead because she (presumably based on existing evidence that has been shared with the general public) killed herself by hanging.

The traffic stop was poorly handled. I'll assume you have some proof that racial profiling was involved, yeah?

Regardless, there is literally nothing to say that had she simply gotten a ticket, gone on her merry way, that she wouldn't have hung herself at her home that night. It's complete speculation to claim otherwise.

**Jihadin**

cincydooley wrote:
generalgrog wrote:
This woman is dead, because of a racial profiling traffic stop...period

GG

No, the woman is dead because she (presumably based on existing evidence that has been shared with the general public) killed herself by hanging.

The traffic stop was poorly handled. I'll assume you have some proof that racial profiling was involved, yeah?

Regardless, there is literally nothing to say that had she simply gotten a ticket, gone on her merry way, that she wouldn't have hung herself at her home that night. It's complete speculation to claim otherwise.

Stop feeding into it Cincy

**cincydooley**

Jihadin wrote:
cincydooley wrote:
generalgrog wrote:
This woman is dead, because of a racial profiling traffic stop...period

GG

No, the woman is dead because she (presumably based on existing evidence that has been shared with the general public) killed herself by hanging.

The traffic stop was poorly handled. I'll assume you have some proof that racial profiling was involved, yeah?

Regardless, there is literally nothing to say that had she simply gotten a ticket, gone on her merry way, that she wouldn't have hung herself at her home that night. It's complete speculation to claim otherwise.

Stop feeding into it Cincy

Okay, I'll go have a beer.

Dark or Light?

**Jihadin**

cincydooley wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
cincydooley wrote:
generalgrog wrote:
This woman is dead, because of a racial profiling traffic stop...period

GG

No, the woman is dead because she (presumably based on existing evidence that has been shared with the general public) killed herself by hanging.

The traffic stop was poorly handled. I'll assume you have some proof that racial profiling was involved, yeah?

Regardless, there is literally nothing to say that had she simply gotten a ticket, gone on her merry way, that she wouldn't have hung herself at her home that night. It's complete speculation to claim otherwise.

Stop feeding into it Cincy

Okay, I'll go have a beer.

Dark or Light?

I'm simple for an answer in this topic
Both

**cincydooley**

Jihadin wrote:
cincydooley wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
cincydooley wrote:
generalgrog wrote:
This woman is dead, because of a racial profiling traffic stop...period

GG

No, the woman is dead because she (presumably based on existing evidence that has been shared with the general public) killed herself by hanging.

The traffic stop was poorly handled. I'll assume you have some proof that racial profiling was involved, yeah?

Regardless, there is literally nothing to say that had she simply gotten a ticket, gone on her merry way, that she wouldn't have hung herself at her home that night. It's complete speculation to claim otherwise.

Stop feeding into it Cincy

Okay, I'll go have a beer.

Dark or Light?

I'm simple for an answer in this topic
Both

#AllBeersMatter ?

**Dreadwinter**

Jihadin wrote:
I've scars on my wrists and up my arms. Does not mean I have suicidal thoughts/tendencies though

Are your scars marked directly down your arm along the veins? Because if so not knowing you, I would probably have somebody keep an eye on you in case. I also have scars on my arms and wrists, but they do not match intentional bodily harm. There is a difference between having scars on your arms and having scars where your veins are.

**d-usa**

There is also the issue with people cutting without actually having any SI.

**Jihadin**

Very noticeable scars up my left and right fore arm and wrists occur over a military career
I also have PTSD. Does that automatically qualify me to go on Suicide Watch?

**SlaveToDorkness**

Dreadwinter wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
I've scars on my wrists and up my arms. Does not mean I have suicidal thoughts/tendencies though

Are your scars marked directly down your arm along the veins? Because if so not knowing you, I would probably have somebody keep an eye on you in case. I also have scars on my arms and wrists, but they do not match intentional bodily harm. There is a difference between having scars on your arms and having scars where your veins are.

Were hers? I don't think so. The autopsy mentions them and specifically states the cuffs as the cause I believe. At least that's what NPR said.

The important thing isn't the scars/scabs/cuts on her wrists, it's the complete lack of defensive wounds on her. Or do people think the cop talked her into hanging herself?

**Jihadin**

SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Dreadwinter wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
I've scars on my wrists and up my arms. Does not mean I have suicidal thoughts/tendencies though

Are your scars marked directly down your arm along the veins? Because if so not knowing you, I would probably have somebody keep an eye on you in case. I also have scars on my arms and wrists, but they do not match intentional bodily harm. There is a difference between having scars on your arms and having scars where your veins are.

Were hers? I don't think so. The autopsy mentions them and specifically states the cuffs as the cause I believe. At least that's what NPR said.

The important thing isn't the scars/scabs/cuts on her wrists, it's the complete lack of defensive wounds on her. Or do people think the cop talked her into hanging herself?

Well one guard did say she was upbeat and in good spirit a few hours before she was found hanging from the ceiling.
Before that she was depress and crying for a couple days
Inmate in cell next to her did not hear anything during the time she took to hang herself

Though the 180 she did on behavior was a huge red flag

**Dreadwinter**

d-usa wrote:
There is also the issue with people cutting without actually having any SI.

Cutting scars are very different from suicide wounds.

Jihadin wrote:
Very noticeable scars up my left and right fore arm and wrists occur over a military career
I also have PTSD. Does that automatically qualify me to go on Suicide Watch?

That depends, are you currently emotionally distraught?

SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Dreadwinter wrote:
Jihadin wrote:

Were hers? I don't think so. The autopsy mentions them and specifically states the cuffs as the cause I believe. At least that's what NPR said.

The important thing isn't the scars/scabs/cuts on her wrists, it's the complete lack of defensive wounds on her. Or do people think the cop talked her into hanging herself?

Actually, the lack of defensive wounds are not important here at all. It is pretty clear this woman killed herself. Now the question is, why did the jailers not have her on suicide watch?

https://news.vice.com/article/prosecutors-detail-sandra-bland-autopsy-report

Preliminary autopsy results released by the Waller County District Attorney's office Thursday claim Sandra Bland died as a result of suicide by hanging, backing up police allegations that she killed herself in her jail cell on July 13.

After a review by the medical examiner's office, Waller County Assistant District Attorney Warren Diepraam said no injuries were found on Bland's body that suggested a violent struggle. All injuries were consistent with strangulation, he said at a press conference Thursday afternoon.

"The only injury that was found close to the hands were some lacerations or abrasions on her wrists, which are consistent with being handcuffed and struggling," he said. "There were no bite marks or other injuries on her face, on her lips, on her tongue, which would be consistent with a violent struggle."

Bland, a 28-year-old black woman from Illinois, was arrested on July 10 while headed to Texas to start a new job when a police officer stopped her for failing to signal a lane change. The officer alleged she was "uncooperative" after he asked her to exit her car and took her into custody. Three days later, she was found dead in her cell, with authorities claiming she hanged herself with a plastic bag. Bland's family and friends have raised doubts, saying they have no evidence Bland had attempted suicide before or had a history of depression.

The incident is under review by several agencies. Diepraam shot down rumors that his office had not asked for and didn't intend to ask for a second autopsy. Her family can request a second autopsy if they choose, he said.

Related: Sandra Bland 'Previously Attempted Suicide,' Jail Documents Littered With Discrepancies Say

Documents released Wednesday by the Waller County Sheriff's office reveal several inconsistencies in official documents purporting to show what Bland told authorities while in jail. In one document, Bland reportedly said she had previously attempted suicide after she lost a baby. Another form indicates the attempt happened in 2015, while another says 2014. One form indicates that Bland had suicidal thoughts in the past year, while another said she hadn't. It is still unclear as to why Bland was not on suicide watch while being held. Jailers who spoke with Bland when she was being booked said she seemed fine, and that no one thought she was at risk.

In one questionnaire, Bland said she had epilepsy and was on medication for it, but in another document she circled that she wasn't on any medication. In a third document, she again indicated that she was on medication. The preliminary autopsy report also revealed Bland had a significant amount of marijuana in her system.

In a voicemail obtained by a Texas TV station Thursday, Bland can be heard asking, "How did switching lanes with no signal turn into all of this?" In the message, Bland says she's "still just at a loss for words honestly at this whole process."

The Bland family's attorney previously asked why a woman who had expressed excitement about two job offers would commit suicide. The case has gained national attention amid numerous cases of police brutality and has taken off on social media with hashtags #JusticeForSandy and #WhatHappenedToSandyBland.

In dashcam footage released of Bland's arrest, State Trooper Brian Encinia can be heard threatening to drag her out of the car, saying, "I will light you up." Encinia is now on administrative leave.

**SlaveToDorkness**

Ah...so it's gone from "the evil police strangled her and covered it all up" to "they didn't properly check in with her". OK my bad.

**Dreadwinter**

When were we saying "the evil police strangled her and covered it all up" in here?

**CptJake**

Dreadwinter wrote:
When were we saying "the evil police strangled her and covered it all up" in here?

I think if you search nkelsch's posts you'll answer your question.

**djones520**

CptJake wrote:
Dreadwinter wrote:
When were we saying "the evil police strangled her and covered it all up" in here?

I think if you search nkelsch's posts you'll answer your question.

Page 2 if you need help narrowing it down.

The OP pretty much pretty much said it as well.

**cincydooley**

generalgrog wrote:
This woman is dead, because of a racial profiling traffic stop...period

Is this what the arresting officer wanted? Probably not...but he pulled over the wrong person, who wasn't willing to be a sheeple. The officer should be fired for this incompetent, uncontrolled stop.

1)He pulled her over for "illegal lane change", when in fact he was the one who instigated her lane change.
2)He asked her if she was irritated...this was an instigatory question/act. In fact it was entirely possible he was doing what he was trained to do, in an effort to gain a response, so he could goad her into a situation whereby he could search her vehicle. Get her agitated to he can trump up a "reasonable suspicion".
3) He does have the right ask her to exit her vehicle, and in which case she should have complied, and sued the department later for violation of her civil rights. (racial profiling) Unfortunately for her, she did not have the self control to keep herself safe, from predatory policing practices such as what we see here. I.E. with her belligerent attitude she played right into the officers hands.
4) She was recording the officer, and he made her put her phone down...not sure if this was an illegal request of the officer at this point or not.
5) Officer knowingly took the lady out of view range of the dash cam...and you can hear him abusing her, throwing her to the ground, applying pressure to her handcuffs behind her back.
6) Officer asked bystander to stop recording the interaction...illegal to ask him to stop, unless he was interfering, which there is no evidence of this. That guy is going to release his recording at some point, and I don't think it will look favorably on the officer.

This is just another example of gestapo style policing in our country, and I'm sick of seeing this happen over and over.

GG

It certainly wasn't from this post either. Nope, not at all.

**timetowaste85**

CptJake wrote:
Dreadwinter wrote:
When were we saying "the evil police strangled her and covered it all up" in here?

I think if you search nkelsch's posts you'll answer your question.

Basically, the usual suspects. Nkelsch isn't the only one: there are others being clowns as well.
We had two possibilities in this: police were negligent in their duties, and she committed suicide OR police killed her. And like I said, the usual suspects all leapt to murder.

Either way, the cops at this jail are in deep poo. Either they committed murder or they did a piss-poor job of keeping her safe from harm. I expect lost jobs or heavy fines if it was negligence, which is what it's appearing to be at this point.

But I think we need to stop with "woman dies while in jail? Oh God, cops are murdererzzz!" The facts coming out suggest otherwise, from the coroner.
Until the next time you want to claim Dakka is a hive mind and look like a fool. Carry on.

**SlaveToDorkness**

I just wonder how someone, knowing a cop is behind her, doesn't do everything completely by the book while driving? Doing anything illegal in front of a cop (no matter how minor) is just begging to get pulled over. Was she irritated because he got her for such a minor offense or at herself for not being smarter about it?

Seriously, a cop might not pull someone over for failure to signal if they just saw someone do it it traffic, but if it's obvious that they see the cop and then do something wrong, the cop pretty much has to enforce it. Regardless of someone's race I would expect that from any cop.

**kronk**

Sounds like a lady went off the rails/meds and killed herself.