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So I played a few games over the weekend and different people were playing this different ways.

Scenario is a model that causes d3 wounds.

Roll to hit fine.
Roll to wound fine.
But do I roll to determine the number of wounds next or does my opponent roll to make saves next?

Per the rules it says the final piece is to roll for saves and then add up the total wounds.

In reading it, it could be done either way.

8th edition was roll to save before number of wounds determined.

And how would this differ considering Ogres (or what every they may be called now) do 3 wounds per successful to wound roll.

Example for basis of discussion:

Ogres roll to hit and get 11 hits. Amazingly they all wound. They each do 3 wounds.

Do I roll 11 saves or 33?

11 saves, each failed save causing 3 unsaved wounds. I played it wrong my first go of it too.

Because the wounds can spill over from one to the next model, we played it as: To Hit, To Wound, roll number of wounds, saves.

Edit: Incorrect rule use, sorry. Rules are clear on this one.

But as far as i can tell, the rules want you to roll to hit, roll to wound, make saves, and then finally determine damage. Doing it the other way nerfs every model who does multiple damage per attack.

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
But as far as i can tell, the rules want you to roll to hit, roll to wound, make saves, and then finally determine damage. Doing it the other way nerfs every model who does multiple damage per attack.

You're right. Just looked at the rules again, they are very clear how to determine wounds. So we played it wrong.

Make sure to differentiate between wounds and damage.

Take a basic Ogre Kingdom Ogre. 3 Attacks, 4+ to hit, 3+ to wound, no rend and 2 damage.

1. I roll my three attacks and get a 2, 4 and 5. So, two of my attacks hit.
2. I roll to wound for my two hits and get a 2 and a 5. One of my hits actually wounds.
3. My opponent now rolls to see if he saves the wound. He rolls a 1 (he has a 4+ armor save). Not good enough.
4. So, my opponent was wounded once. Now, I'm an Ogre and I hit a lot harder than a common human. My one wound does 2 damage.

 Kriswall wrote:
Make sure to differentiate between wounds and damage.

Take a basic Ogre Kingdom Ogre. 3 Attacks, 4+ to hit, 3+ to wound, no rend and 2 damage.

1. I roll my three attacks and get a 2, 4 and 5. So, two of my attacks hit.
2. I roll to wound for my two hits and get a 2 and a 5. One of my hits actually wounds.
3. My opponent now rolls to see if he saves the wound. He rolls a 1 (he has a 4+ armor save). Not good enough.
4. So, my opponent was wounded once. Now, I'm an Ogre and I hit a lot harder than a common human. My one wound does 2 damage.

Question: so does the 2 damage only affect one model, or would two models take damage in the case of 1 wound models?

 Lord_Mortis wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
Make sure to differentiate between wounds and damage.

Take a basic Ogre Kingdom Ogre. 3 Attacks, 4+ to hit, 3+ to wound, no rend and 2 damage.

1. I roll my three attacks and get a 2, 4 and 5. So, two of my attacks hit.
2. I roll to wound for my two hits and get a 2 and a 5. One of my hits actually wounds.
3. My opponent now rolls to see if he saves the wound. He rolls a 1 (he has a 4+ armor save). Not good enough.
4. So, my opponent was wounded once. Now, I'm an Ogre and I hit a lot harder than a common human. My one wound does 2 damage.

Question: so does the 2 damage only affect one model, or would two models take damage in the case of 1 wound models?

You'd take off multiple models.

Ironguts swing and get 4 unsaved hits. Each does 3 wounds. 12 wounds total. A unit of 1 wound models loses 12, 2 wound models lose 6, etc.

 mikhaila wrote:

 Lord_Mortis wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
Make sure to differentiate between wounds and damage.

Take a basic Ogre Kingdom Ogre. 3 Attacks, 4+ to hit, 3+ to wound, no rend and 2 damage.

1. I roll my three attacks and get a 2, 4 and 5. So, two of my attacks hit.
2. I roll to wound for my two hits and get a 2 and a 5. One of my hits actually wounds.
3. My opponent now rolls to see if he saves the wound. He rolls a 1 (he has a 4+ armor save). Not good enough.
4. So, my opponent was wounded once. Now, I'm an Ogre and I hit a lot harder than a common human. My one wound does 2 damage.

Question: so does the 2 damage only affect one model, or would two models take damage in the case of 1 wound models?

You'd take off multiple models.

Ironguts swing and get 4 unsaved hits. Each does 3 wounds. 12 wounds total. A unit of 1 wound models loses 12, 2 wound models lose 6, etc.

Unfortunately, yes. This is what makes Ironguts so absolutely brutal. They have tons of what I would consider "splash damage". In other words, they can kill far more models than they can actually hit.

It's definitely counter-intuitive. I would normally expect two scenarios...

#1 - A warrior is capable of swinging his sword in a cleaving motion, potentially hitting more than one opponent. Represent this with multiple attacks in game.
#2 - A warrior is capable of swinging his hammer down in a crushing motion, hitting only one opponent, but with incredible strength. Represent this with a higher damage output in game. This damage can only impact the struck model.

What we actually get is this...

#3 - An Ogre Irongut is capable of swinging his hammer in a crushing motion, hitting only one opponent, but with incredible strength. The opponent struck makes a single armor save against the hit and fails. The shock wave of the hit pulverizes not only the opponent he hit, but two of the opponent's comrades who are standing nearby.

Maybe they drown in all the gore?

Or slashed by the targets armour.or sweeping bodies about theres lots of fluff justification. I like it.
But yes take the save then work out the dead.

So you are rolling a save for,every wound?
I.E. : -- I get 3 hits , then I get 3 wounds each doing 2 damage. So that's 6 wounds of damage. Does my opponent take 3 or 6 saves?

Haldir wrote:
So you are rolling a save for,every wound?
I.E. : -- I get 3 hits , then I get 3 wounds each doing 2 damage. So that's 6 wounds of damage. Does my opponent take 3 or 6 saves?

3 saves. Each failed save causes 2 damage.

Waywatchers do this too: arrows that deal 2 damage each. Absolutely brutal. I think it helps balance the game without making you roll many more dice.

So if my buddy failed all the saves each with 2 pts. Of damage he would lose 6 one wound models correct?

No

Three hits that cause 6 damage (2 damage each) can still only kill three single wound models as there were only three hits. Wounds can't spill over from model to model unless there are more unsaved hits.

For example, Archaon causes 3 damage per wound wth his sword. Lets say he causes 3 wounds (3 damage each) and the opponent fails three saves. Against a stormcast Retributor squad, (multi wound models), he would kill three models due to damage/wounds. Against a squad of skaven single wound guys, he would kill three models (only 1 wound each, but three saves failed). Against two 5 wound character models, he could kill one and cause 3 wounds on another depending on how attacks were split up.

Another good example is d3 damage per wound. If you have a model that causes three wounds with d3 damage each, you may as well have him make his saves first. He doesn't save the damage amount, just the three saves for three wounds. If one save is made and two are failed, roll two d3 and two models take d3 damage.

This makes base troops effective against single hero models, and can help tarpit your opponent's nasty characters.

 455_PWR wrote:
No
...
Three hits that cause 6 damage (2 damage each) can still only kill three single wound models as there were only three hits. Wounds can't spill over from model to model unless there are more unsaved hits.

Attacking, para 4.
"Most weapons have a Damage characteristic of 1, but some can inflict 2 or more wounds, allowing them to cause grievous injuries to even the mightiest foe, or to cleave through more than one opponent with but a single blow!"

Wow that`s a great point. Right in the rules.