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2015/08/03 20:27:49
Subject: 7-year-old punished at school for not believing in God.
The allegations from the Complaint, which claims the teacher’s actions violated the child’s First Amendment rights:
1. In February of 2015, A.B. was a second grader at Forest Park Elementary School, a school that is within Fort Wayne Community Schools. During a discussion with classmates on the playground he responded to a question by indicating that he did not go to church because he did not believe in God. This resulted in his teacher interrogating the child as to his beliefs and requiring the child to sit by himself during lunch and not talk to his classmates during lunch for three days. This violates the First Amendment. The defendant’s actions caused great distress to A.B. and resulted in the child being ostracized by his peers past the three-day “banishment.” No meaningful attempt has been made to remedy these injuries and the child seeks his damages. . . .
7. In February of 2015, A.B. was a second-grade student at Forest Park Elementary School. . . .
9. On or about February 23, 2015, A.B. and his classmates were on the playground during the school day immediately before lunch when A.B. was asked by one of his classmates if he attended church.
10. A.B. responded by stating that he did not go to church and did not believe in God. He also stated that it was fine with him if his inquiring classmate believed in God.
11. The classmate said that A.B. had hurt her feelings by saying that he did not believe in God and started to cry.
12. A playground supervisor reported to [A.B.’s teacher] what had happened.
13. At that point the students were going to lunch and [the teacher] asked A.B. if he had told the girl that he did not believe in God and A.B. said he had and asked what he had done wrong.
14. [The teacher] asked A.B. if he went to church, whether his family went to church, and whether his mother knew how he felt about God.
15. She also asked A.B. if he believed that maybe God exists.
16. [The teacher] told A.B. that she was very concerned about what he had done and that she was going to contact his mother — although she never did.
17. This was very upsetting to A.B. as he was made to feel that he had done something wrong.
18. A day or two after the initial incident, A.B. and his fellow-student who had become upset with his comment on the playground were sent to another adult employed at Forest Park Elementary School.
19. This person asked them what the problem was and A.B. indicated that his classmate had become upset when, in response to her question, he had said he did not go to church and did not believe in God.
20. Upon hearing this, the adult employee looked at A.B.’s classmate and stated that she should not be worried and should be happy she has faith and that she should not listen to A.B.’s bad ideas. She then patted the little girl’s hand.
21. This was, again, extremely upsetting to A.B. as it reinforced his feeling that he had done something very wrong.
22. On the day of the incident and for an additional two days thereafter, [the teacher] required that A.B. sit by himself during lunch and told him he should not talk to the other students and stated that this was because he had offended them. This served to reinforce A.B.’s feeling that he had committed some transgression that justified his exclusion.
23. When V.S. was told by A.B. what had happened she called the Assistant Principal of the school and demanded an explanation.
24. The Assistant Principal set up a three-way telephone conversation with V.S., [the teacher] and himself.
25. [The teacher] confirmed her involvement in this matter as noted above.
26. V.S. demanded that the school not isolate her son or punish him for his beliefs.
27. After three days A.B. was allowed to join his classmates for lunch and all sanctions and restrictions were lifted.
28. After this three-day period, and after V.S. complained, A.B. was told by [the teacher] and other teachers that he could believe what he wants.
29. But this was after A.B. had been publicly separated from his classmates and informed that he could not speak to them. All the students in his class heard and were aware of this. He was publicly shamed and made to feel that his personal beliefs were terribly wrong.
30. No efforts were made to correct the damages that had been done.
31. A.B. came home from school on multiple occasions crying saying that he knows that everyone at school — teachers and students — hate him.
32. Even now there are some classmates who will not talk to A.B.
33. Even now A.B. remains anxious and fearful about school, which is completely contrary to how he felt before this incident.
34. At all times defendant acted, and refused to act, under color of state law.
The school district released a statement saying, “It is clear that it is not the province of a public school to advance or inhibit religious beliefs or practices. Under the First and Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution, this remains the inviolate province of the individual and the church of his/her choice. The rights of any minority, no matter how small, must be protected.” So far, the court hasn’t decided any substantive matters in the case, but it did issue a decision last Tuesday allowing the child’s mother (as the child’s legal guardian) to proceed anonymously, so as to preserve the child’s anonymity to the extent possible:
A.B. is a young child and this suit involves religion and public schools-a topic that “has a tendency to inflame unreasonably some individuals” in most communities, including Fort Wayne. Accordingly, at this time, the Court finds that the risk to A.B.’s health and safety, if his mother is identified by name, outweighs the public’s interest in judicial openness and overcomes the presumption against anonymous litigation.
The complaint was filed by the ACLU of Indiana.
Does this warrant a lawsuit? In my opinion, no; typical ACLU overreaction. Should the people involved attend sensitivity training or the like and make an official apology to the student and his family? Yes.
Religious people get moments of silence and other things in school but a 7-year old is not allowed to answer a classmate's question honestly without being punished and given the 3rd degree?
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
2015/08/03 20:37:02
Subject: 7-year-old punished at school for not believing in God.
Every member of staff involved should be sacked. Their handling of the situation was below any standard expected of those working in a school. They demonstrated a complete inability to conduct themselves in a professional way and so do not belong in the positions they are in.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/03 20:42:23
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2015/08/03 20:41:20
Subject: 7-year-old punished at school for not believing in God.
Na. They should all hug it out. Maybe sing a song. I know: the Safety Dance.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Religious people get moments of silence and other things in school but a 7-year old is not allowed to answer a classmate's question honestly without being punished and given the 3rd degree?
See the staff should be given an award. Now the child knows the value of subterfuge and deceit, the building blocks for every good politician. After all I'm sure the parents won some bank off Jr's torment. A kid's gotta earn. See it all worked out in the end.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/08/03 20:46:13
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/08/03 20:44:52
Subject: 7-year-old punished at school for not believing in God.
Just give them a warning (Most places have a 3 warning then fired policy).
Teachers, like people, are dumb and do dumb things. I had an atheist teacher tell me my parents where a part of a cult and where actually worshiping Satan. Now I was about 6 and no idea what atheist meant back then but I was legitimately worried about being a Satan lover for a while. For the next few years kids thought I worshiped Satan as a result too (I had to explain a lot of times that no, I do not worship Satan etc). I hated that lady for a while.
Reminds me of the 3rd year after 9/11 and our teacher decided to give his opinion on the subject. Talking about oil and jihads and so on. Now this would have been fine if he didn't throw his opinion on how it was an inside job etc. I actually went home thinking America blew up their own towers.
Those are 2 times I remember a teacher being dumb in a way that effected me.
I don't think you can stop people doing silly things, but you can simply sack/warn them. Then teachers can learn to keep opinions to themselves. Ultimately that is all I think countries need to do. Punish teachers who don't teach from the book. In theory the Parents should also keep up to date with what is in the books too and then everyone is on the same page. Harshly punish any teacher who decide their opinion is important enough to shove down another kids throat, especially during a time where they are gullible.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/03 20:45:55
2015/08/03 20:47:55
Subject: 7-year-old punished at school for not believing in God.
Does this warrant a lawsuit? In my opinion, no; typical ACLU overreaction. Should the people involved attend sensitivity training or the like and make an official apology to the student and his family? Yes.
Religious people get moments of silence and other things in school but a 7-year old is not allowed to answer a classmate's question honestly without being punished and given the 3rd degree?
If it was like say in high school i wouldn't really care
But at 7-years old. a reaction like that from an authority figure can having a hella impact for the way he could grows up. They absolutely need to apologize in person to this child and there family.
without a lawsuit or some crazy social media justice warrioring they probably wont.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/03 20:48:17
Why do you think they will now? Rule one is shut up when sued.
Note: to be clear on Frazzled view: *Frazzled once went to high school looking to puncherize the kid who ambushed his kid and everyone who got in his way. As a Dad I'd say the Dad needs to puncherize everyone involved.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/08/03 20:52:41
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/08/03 20:57:51
Subject: 7-year-old punished at school for not believing in God.
The family should sue for whatever it takes to move to a better school district where the child can have a safe classroom experience. The kind of ostracizing he is experiencing can be extremely harmful. If someone shamed my child like that, I'd be furious, and I wouldn't feel comfortable trusting my child to be cared for at that school any more no matter what disciplinary action was taken.
Full disclosure, my wife had an experience like this in grade school, where a teacher publicly shamed her for not being a True Christian (her family was Mormon), and told the other children not to play with her. One of her closest friends at the time stopped talking to her. It had a fairly big impact on her life and her view of religious people in general.
Frazzled wrote: Why do you think they will now? Rule one is shut up when sued.
Note: to be clear on Frazzled view:
*Frazzled once went to high school looking to puncherize the kid who ambushed his kid and everyone who got in his way. As a Dad I'd say the Dad needs to puncherize everyone involved.
I did that but it wasn't the kid I puncherized but the adult version of the kid who was immediate blood family. His dad was my proxy. He decided not to press charges against me and I decided not to press charges against his son for multiple groping my daughter.
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2015/08/03 20:58:55
Subject: 7-year-old punished at school for not believing in God.
Frazzled wrote: Why do you think they will now? Rule one is shut up when sued.
Note: to be clear on Frazzled view:
*Frazzled once went to high school looking to puncherize the kid who ambushed his kid and everyone who got in his way. As a Dad I'd say the Dad needs to puncherize everyone involved.
I did that but it wasn't the kid I puncherized but the adult version of the kid who was immediate blood family. His dad was my proxy. He decided not to press charges against me and I decided not to press charges against his son for multiple groping my daughter.
Clearly you didn't punch hard enough.
2015/08/03 20:59:01
Subject: 7-year-old punished at school for not believing in God.
Why punish him in school? Isn't that God's responsibility? If I read this correctly, the other kids were upset at what the boy said? Maybe the teacher did it thinking to protect the other students or something like that? In any case, religion has a place in school, but so does non-religiousness. The lawsuit should be dropped (courts really have better things to do than bother themselves with this kind of stuff) teacher should apologise to the kid (in front of the classroom) and maybe the kids should have the situation explained to them. Punishing the teacher for something this minor seems very odd. I mean, why is this even news?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/03 21:01:11
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2015/08/03 20:59:12
Subject: 7-year-old punished at school for not believing in God.
Frazzled wrote: Why do you think they will now? Rule one is shut up when sued.
Note: to be clear on Frazzled view:
*Frazzled once went to high school looking to puncherize the kid who ambushed his kid and everyone who got in his way. As a Dad I'd say the Dad needs to puncherize everyone involved.
I come from a culture more rich with lawyers than with athletes. A lawsuit is how my people express a punch to the face.
Just get this fething mythical BS out of schools, dammit.
If a teacher is allowed to say invisible men in the sky are real, using a the bible as "proof", I should be able to teach that Spiderman is real, using Spiderman comics as proof.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/08/03 21:03:40
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
2015/08/03 21:00:57
Subject: 7-year-old punished at school for not believing in God.
Frazzled wrote: Why do you think they will now? Rule one is shut up when sued.
Note: to be clear on Frazzled view:
*Frazzled once went to high school looking to puncherize the kid who ambushed his kid and everyone who got in his way. As a Dad I'd say the Dad needs to puncherize everyone involved.
I did that but it wasn't the kid I puncherized but the adult version of the kid who was immediate blood family. His dad was my proxy. He decided not to press charges against me and I decided not to press charges against his son for multiple groping my daughter.
Respect. Dads gotta do what a Dad's gotta do.
I think in this instance there is/was a suit.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/08/03 21:01:32
Subject: 7-year-old punished at school for not believing in God.
Iron_Captain wrote: Why punish him in school? Isn't that God's responsibility?
If I read this correctly, the other kids were upset at what the boy said? Maybe the teacher did it thinking to protect the other students or something like that?
In any case, religion has a place in school, but so does non-religiousness. The teacher should apologise to the kid (in front of the classroom) and maybe the kids should have the situation explained to them. Punishing the teacher for something this minor seems very odd. I mean, why is this even news?
Because a teacher should under no circumstance punish a 7-year old for over 3 days. Regardless of circumstances, this is not something that the teacher can do without involving parents.
2015/08/03 21:01:42
Subject: 7-year-old punished at school for not believing in God.
Verviedi wrote: Just get this fething mythical BS out of schools, dammit.
Then there's this. sigh.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/03 21:01:52
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/08/03 21:04:10
Subject: 7-year-old punished at school for not believing in God.
Verviedi wrote: Just get this fething mythical BS out of schools, dammit.
Then there's this. sigh.
Requesting clarification.
Your bigotry permeates your post. I'm sure there are teachers like that too. I knew professors like that.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/08/03 21:07:48
Subject: 7-year-old punished at school for not believing in God.
Verviedi wrote: Just get this fething mythical BS out of schools, dammit.
If a teacher is allowed to say invisible men in the sky are real, using a the bible as "proof", I should be able to teach that Spiderman is real, using Spiderman comics as proof.
Enlighten me sir, guide me to the light! My mind is not empty like the sheeple around me, how am I to gain this enlightenment you have obtained over the masses?
2015/08/03 21:10:36
Subject: 7-year-old punished at school for not believing in God.
Verviedi wrote: Just get this fething mythical BS out of schools, dammit.
If a teacher is allowed to say invisible men in the sky are real, using a the bible as "proof", I should be able to teach that Spiderman is real, using Spiderman comics as proof.
Enlighten me sir, guide me to the light! My mind is not empty like the sheeple around me, how am I to gain this enlightenment you have obtained over the masses?
Verviedi wrote: Just get this fething mythical BS out of schools, dammit. If a teacher is allowed to say invisible men in the sky are real, using a the bible as "proof", I should be able to teach that Spiderman is real, using Spiderman comics as proof.
Enlighten me sir, guide me to the light! My mind is not empty like the sheeple around me, how am I to gain this enlightenment you have obtained over the masses?
move on.
Come on, if he can make fun of people for believing in an invisible sky man, I can make fun of him for X reasons too.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/03 21:12:22
2015/08/03 21:13:42
Subject: 7-year-old punished at school for not believing in God.
Verviedi wrote: Just get this fething mythical BS out of schools, dammit.
Then there's this. sigh.
Requesting clarification.
Your bigotry permeates your post. I'm sure there are teachers like that too. I knew professors like that.
Perhaps he was punished as a child for having the wrong religion. It just goes to show how much damage this teacher could have caused. Better sue for additional damages to cover therapy and sensitivity training.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Verviedi wrote: Owning several fedoras is not a reason to make fun of somebody.
But it is a reason to commit him.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/03 21:14:08
Iron_Captain wrote: Why punish him in school? Isn't that God's responsibility? If I read this correctly, the other kids were upset at what the boy said? Maybe the teacher did it thinking to protect the other students or something like that? In any case, religion has a place in school, but so does non-religiousness. The teacher should apologise to the kid (in front of the classroom) and maybe the kids should have the situation explained to them. Punishing the teacher for something this minor seems very odd. I mean, why is this even news?
Because a teacher should under no circumstance punish a 7-year old for over 3 days. Regardless of circumstances, this is not something that the teacher can do without involving parents.
Agreed. But I still don't get why this is made such a big deal of. My teacher once had me write an entire essay after I drew a line on my neigbour's piece of paper. That was far out of proportion, but it did not make the internet. Maybe I should have started a lawsuit too?
Verviedi wrote: Just get this fething mythical BS out of schools, dammit. If a teacher is allowed to say invisible men in the sky are real, using a the bible as "proof", I should be able to teach that Spiderman is real, using Spiderman comics as proof.
Actually you proof quite the opposite. Knowledge and understanding of religion and respect for other people are important to teach, lest people end up with the sheer ignorance, disrespect and lack of common sense displayed by the above comment.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/03 21:22:21
Error 404: Interesting signature not found
2015/08/03 21:19:04
Subject: 7-year-old punished at school for not believing in God.
Out of proportion for what you did, but you also did something wrong.
Then there's the whole "that's also a completely different punishment" thing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/03 21:19:50
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.