Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
This isn't a Fire Caste vehicle. It's Earth Caste, operated by three individuals.
Not quite sure how thats relevant?
Have you read the background on the Earth Caste Pilot Array in Farsight Enclaves?
In any regards, it's relevant because the doctrine of the Earth Caste is not something which has been thoroughly explored. We know that the Earth Caste establish the bunkers and the like for the Fire Caste.
Flinty wrote: It annoys me a bit that they've gone down the route of a superheavy walker, when the Tau background goes more into air superiority for anti-titan duties. A-X-10s and Mantas all the way
We don't have the exact details of this campaign book.
For all you know, this thing is never deployed outside of Tau worlds and used as a relatively static ambush defense.
All I know is the concepts that were shared by the dev team in the various Tau Empire books. The original idea was to deviate away from the route that all the other races took, i.e. the superheavy walkers, and came up with a different idea that was eminently workable. I just think its a shame they have caved into coming up with ever larger walkers armed with increasingly ridiculous weapons.
This isn't a Fire Caste vehicle. It's Earth Caste, operated by three individuals.
Not quite sure how thats relevant?
Maybe he's saying that with fire AND earth on the battlefield, we're getting ever closer to...
Aside from very competitive metas I don't think many people will see this on a table. The barrier to entry will probably be a huge dollar cost and point cost because its a xeno toy.
If you have nothing tom offer than snide comments or insults towards other forum members it's really better if you don't post at all.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Flinty wrote:It annoys me a bit that they've gone down the route of a superheavy walker, when the Tau background goes more into air superiority for anti-titan duties. A-X-10s and Mantas all the way
FW wants to make a SH skimmer as well. They understand the public rather having options.
So maybe, JUST MAYBE, they'll change Riptides into walkers as well.
Because a tiny guy piloting a giant machine should, by all means, be a vehicle. I honestly did not understand what they were thinking. Suits, I get it, they're just highly advanced armor.
Hardly. They kept Wraithlords/knights as (G)MCs, and Dreads as Walkers. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that (I hope it doesn't come to be )
I got my money saved up for it. Can't wait to crush my friends with it. Oh don't look at me like that. They can't even beat Kroot and Vespid spam. What does it matter if I chuck this at them?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/08/05 21:38:35
Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles which every man of every faith can embrace.
For if you do, one day you will look behind you and you will see us And on that day, you will reap it,
and we will send you to whatever god you wish.
Wow all dem gunz and stuff. Looks like the Tau are learning a thing or two from the Orks they fight.
"I'z allredy knowz hows to make it betta!"
"Dakka-dakka-dakka!"
"Da best means uv Attack is Defence, an' Da best means uv Attack is a really really Big One, right, with lots uv Boys an' dead big shooty things an' what 'av ya."
"Da best shoota I eva made, dat iz. Loadza barrulz, so dat it’s ded shooty. ‘Sept dat wun, ‘cos dat’s da skorcha, dat’s burny insted. Yeah, good an’ propa. An’ da bullitz is ‘splosiv...dey goez boom inna fings wot you’z shootin.’ An’ dat button dere...dat’s da best bit. Wot it duz, see, iz...iz...oh, zog. Nah, its nuffin’ boss. Nah, you’z don’t need ta see wot dat button duz...‘onist. Don’t push it! "
"Well, ‘course dis one’s betta! It’s lotz ‘eavier, and gots dem spikey bitz on de ends."
This isn't a Fire Caste vehicle. It's Earth Caste, operated by three individuals.
Not quite sure how thats relevant?
Have you read the background on the Earth Caste Pilot Array in Farsight Enclaves?
In any regards, it's relevant because the doctrine of the Earth Caste is not something which has been thoroughly explored. We know that the Earth Caste establish the bunkers and the like for the Fire Caste.
My understanding of the earth caste array was that it is a bit of an abberration. The Earth Caste shouldn't have any doctrines as they should be getting protected by the fire caste. Thats the whole point of the system. Another minor gripe of mine I suppose
Having said that, I guess the air caste and ethereals get in on the combat gig so why not the others. Maybe the new superheavy is actua
ly a Water caste super special "Envoy" class negotiator suit in the vein of Gunship Diplomacy. The main Water caste pilot screams imprecations at you through a super amplified speaker set while the other dudes melt you into agreeing with their very reasonable terms...
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
After some thought I guess it wouldn't be that bad that it's Earth Caste. Though I would honestly prefer fire caste.
The thing is a massive machine and not piloted like a Riptide or Crisis suit. It looks like a support platform with the small arms more than likely drone controlled like some of the large flyer weapons. It wouldn't be like naturally aiming a rifle to Fire Caste. Aiming the cannons with targeting assistance would probably be more like operating heavy machinery and the like. Saving the experienced fire caste pilots for crisis suits and Riptides while allowing the Earth Caste to support from a durable and long range unit.
Makes sense, I don't like it, but it can make sense.
That being said I hate that I'm going to end up buying this thing. It just looks too awesome with the cannons and I can't wait to see what conversion possibilities there are.
I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."
"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby
My Narrative behind the Earth Caste Pilot Array, and why it is limited to a Farsight Enclave Detachment, was thus: Farsight has isolated himself from the main core of the Tau Empire, and while not technically viewed as a threat to the Empire by his ex-leaders they still do not like acknowledging his existence while they covertly plot for his demise. This means he does not have access to the Fire Caste of the Tau Homeworlds any-more, only those that are bred within his Enclave, which is a massive problem when your the front-line against the Orks. Couple this lack of recruits with the fact that the Etherals are the one's enforcing the divide between the caste roles, and it becomes quite obvious why he would begin to look at the other caste to fill non-typical roles on the battlefield.
The Earth Caste, which understands how this technology works, already make suitable replacement pilots.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/08/06 00:24:14
8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures.
I have to say I love the model from what I've seen and I'm a bit of a Tau fan boy, so I'm a little biased. As far as the MC vs SHW, I think that a suit piloted by the Earth Cast makes sense to be a SHW as it would be more of a vehicle to them (think of them as engineers more than warriors). Where as the XV-8 for example is piloted by a neural link, not standard controls (this is more evident if you read the book Fire Warrior). This would also explain why the Riptide is a MC if that style of cockpit is used. In the book Fire Warrior the pilot of one of the XV-8s talks about how the neural link has even killed pilots who weren't directly hit, because the head of their suit got blown off, or who couldn't walk again because their suit's leg was destroyed.
Neural feed back is what makes the "suit" a "creature" IMO, but that is just a guess based upon a black library novel. YMMV
Its FW im sure its freakishly powerful and costs a frack ton of points. All things considered we'll likely see very few of them on the table top.
Also, I'm not over fond of "super weapons ". I remember watching a special on German super weapons of WW1 & 2. Mega cannons that took two seperate railroad tracks to support and move the gun. To set up the cannon and fire took hundreds of men. All of those men and materials could have been used to create a whole divisions worth of panzers.
The sci-fi world of the forty-first millenium has some scary stuff that requires over the top answers, but the frequency with wich we now see super heavys annoys me. It makes them seem like there not as rare as they should be. Titans should be rare for most armys, because they represent a huge investment in labor, material and technology.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/06 03:07:50
But how would Germany claim they could shell Paris from a country away if they made more Panzer tanks instead?
The more I think on this Tau Super-heavy, the more I feel it is filling the same roll as those old railway-guns... existing for the sake of propaganda first, with the battlefield role to be decided later. I do not mean in the Narrative of the game either, though the Tau would love for the enemy to know they have the largest and most over-powered 'titan' out there in order to scare people to the negotiation table, but in the real world itself. When questioned about the Rules to go along with this 'Supremacy Suit' Forgeworld has admitted they have not even penned them yet, all they have is some loose ideas on what the Suit may do. This underlines that the model is being show cased for the sole purpose of driving up hype as it is not yet in a playable state. Marketing is just another form of propaganda, and this thing is a magnet to bring people's attention to Forgeworld in hopes they stick around long enough to place orders.
The real problem I fear we will see: While driving people away from the battlefield is great in Narrative, it is not when you are wanting to game....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/06 05:03:02
8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures.
8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures.
Yeah, they could lob one big shell at Paris during rush hour, once every 20 minutes or.... They could make the day trip to the Eiffel tower blowing up everything along the way, do donuts on the ashes of the Louvre and take a victory lap around Versaille.
Tell you what though, Thor sure did frack with the commute home. A billion dollars well spent.
As far as fluff justification goes, I like the idea someone posted earlier of this being a self-defence platform for the more heavily populated worlds (which would also justify Earth caste over Fire caste).
At some point, when your millions of civilians have nowhere else to go, manoeuvre warfare goes out the window and you just have to hold the line. This looks very much like a "not one step further" machine.
Zed wrote: *All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
Despite my army having a consistent theme I feel this has to have a special theme considering its size and potency. Something more eye catching then desert camo.
My main problem with Earth caste piloting things is not to do with their physical ability to operate things, but more that combat is not just about being able to drive stuff and press the fire button ocassionally. I can drive a tank, but I'd be a total liability in any kind of actual armoured combat.
Fire Caste training includes tactics and maneuvers and logistics and stuff that the Earth Caste just don't need as the engineering caste. And if there are Earth Caste pilots getting that kind of training, then why are they not just Fire Caste at that point?
Also @Nocturus - Dreadnoughts are controlled by direct neural linkage and are vehicles. Titans are all controlled by direct neural linkage and are vehicles. Arguably all marine vehicles could be controlled by direct neural linkages by pluggin on the power armour. It doesn't always scan that neural linkage = creature
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Fire Caste training includes tactics and maneuvers and logistics and stuff that the Earth Caste just don't need as the engineering caste. And if there are Earth Caste pilots getting that kind of training, then why are they not just Fire Caste at that point?
No, the castes are different on the genetic level.
Sort of like sub-races, think how some insect colonies got different "types" of members, with vastly different bodies.
An earth caste and a fire caste are physically different and has different capabilities. a fire caste simply does not have the technical and analytical abilities of an earth caste, and an earth caste does not have the nerves, endurance and aim skills of a fire caste-even on the innate level.
Sure, you can train fire as earth or earth as fire-but the results will be subpar, just like high speed manuvers are kept to air caste-their mind's handle it the best.
For the KX, you need tech skills,not combat skills. so using earth caste makes sense, just like tau jets are piloted by air caste, despite being clearly a military object.
As for the walker VS MC discussion, the general premiss is, "Is it operated like a machine, or like a big suit?" the new KX is obviously a machine, a riptide is obviously a suit, a titan is obviously a machine. dreadnaught are sort of in the middle, tilting towards suits, but are kept as walkers for historical reasons.
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now.
I'd almost like to see Dreads become three wound MCs just to make them viable again, but I agree with BoomWolf, they are vehicles due to historical game rules.
I really think the way to fix walkers is to change the rules for how Walkers themselves work vs how standard vehicles work.
@Flinty, you are correct in the Neural link with dreads, but I was referring to Tau in a vacuum, not including the rest of the game and fluff.
)
<Dynasty> 
War Coven of the Coruscating Gaze 
~3000pts
Thrice-Damned Plague Corps 
~3250pts
Admech (TBN) 
4,000 
Word Bearers 1,500 
