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 Asherian Command wrote:

Luke is not overjoyed to see her because he believes himself to be an abject failure. The New Jedi Order that he founded was obliterated, his Padawans massacred by his own nephew. He was not actively watching over Rey on Jakku like Obi Wan was with Luke, waiting for the day when he would begin Rey's training. He's more Yoda than Obi Wan - he sought out a lost Jedi Temple and became a hermit, meditating and living out his days in solitude. And along comes this young idealistic novice, seeking him out.

More evidence of her not being a mary sue.


Most people try to prematurely say "Oh she is a mary sue because of this."

But starwars has always been about subtlety so it is no surprise most don't catch it their first viewing.

How does Luke's character (being the [assumed] I don't want to be found, please go away type) make her less of a Mary Sue?

The only evidence of her not being successful, is the first half of the Kylo Ren fight, where she's getting beaten, despite his injuries, until he says "I'll train you" and she then get's deus ex machina'd by the force.

Before people mention the Jedi mind trick as an example of her not being successful, for everyone else who tries it they're up close to the weak willed individual, it doesn't work until the stormtrooper get's close

 Mozzyfuzzy wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

Luke is not overjoyed to see her because he believes himself to be an abject failure. The New Jedi Order that he founded was obliterated, his Padawans massacred by his own nephew. He was not actively watching over Rey on Jakku like Obi Wan was with Luke, waiting for the day when he would begin Rey's training. He's more Yoda than Obi Wan - he sought out a lost Jedi Temple and became a hermit, meditating and living out his days in solitude. And along comes this young idealistic novice, seeking him out.

More evidence of her not being a mary sue.


Most people try to prematurely say "Oh she is a mary sue because of this."

But starwars has always been about subtlety so it is no surprise most don't catch it their first viewing.

How does Luke's character (being the [assumed] I don't want to be found, please go away) make her less of a Mary Sue?

The only evidence of her not being successful, is the first half of the Kylo Ren fight, where she's getting beaten, despite his injuries, until he says "I'll train you" and she then get's deus ex machina'd by the force.

You know forgeting about the first time they actually fought where she was running the hell away and shooting her blaster at him.

Why is everyone negating that scene? Is that not suiting your argument at all?
'
Her using the force apparently is too much?

Ren is a basically a padawan level trained jedi so no surprise he got owned especially considering how wounded he was.

The refusal of the call is like Lukes, "Oh, but, it's the season and Uncle Owen..."

And then, he moves on.

The fact that Rey keeps on wanting to go back. Again and again and again, until finally being forced to embrace her destiny, that's something else, that's something more.

One could argue, she only truly does it in the 'Force moment' in the fight with Kylo.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Mozzyfuzzy wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

Luke is not overjoyed to see her because he believes himself to be an abject failure. The New Jedi Order that he founded was obliterated, his Padawans massacred by his own nephew. He was not actively watching over Rey on Jakku like Obi Wan was with Luke, waiting for the day when he would begin Rey's training. He's more Yoda than Obi Wan - he sought out a lost Jedi Temple and became a hermit, meditating and living out his days in solitude. And along comes this young idealistic novice, seeking him out.

More evidence of her not being a mary sue.


Most people try to prematurely say "Oh she is a mary sue because of this."

But starwars has always been about subtlety so it is no surprise most don't catch it their first viewing.

How does Luke's character (being the [assumed] I don't want to be found, please go away) make her less of a Mary Sue?

The only evidence of her not being successful, is the first half of the Kylo Ren fight, where she's getting beaten, despite his injuries, until he says "I'll train you" and she then get's deus ex machina'd by the force.

You know forgeting about the first time they actually fought where she was running the hell away and shooting her blaster at him.

Why is everyone negating that scene? Is that not suiting your argument at all?
'
Her using the force apparently is too much?

Ren is a basically a padawan level trained jedi so no surprise he got owned especially considering how wounded he was.

I'm not forgetting, she's legging it from the dude who keeps deflecting her shots, if he wasn't deflecting them he's be shot

And no, Ren is quite handily winning the fight, which is why Rey is blocking a lightsaber aimed at her throat stood over a cliff. Until of course the aforementioned force happening.

 Compel wrote:
The refusal of the call is like Lukes, "Oh, but, it's the season and Uncle Owen..."

And then, he moves on.

The fact that Rey keeps on wanting to go back. Again and again and again, until finally being forced to embrace her destiny, that's something else, that's something more.

One could argue, she only truly does it in the 'Force moment' in the fight with Kylo.

Agreed. All throughout the movie she shirks the call of her destiny. She only resolves that issue after the fight with Kylo, in the endind montage.

 reds8n wrote:
No. They're no more remarkable than any other feat performed by any other lead character in an action film.

This is where we differ slightly in our expectations, and I think one reason why Rey cops so much flak. The feat itself is entirely reasonable for the pilot. Still impressive, but it's what The Pilot does. It's not that Rey can do this thing, it's that she's part of an ensemble cast and does everything. To use Firefly, she's Wash the pilot, Kaylee the mechanic, Jane the brawler and Mal the independent, strong willed leader. Who happens also to be River the special. At no point does she ever require another character to do something. Not just to save her, but to do anything.

For example, on the First Order base at one point they need access through some corridors. Circumvention of FO security systems. This would have been a perfect time for Finn to go 'yeah I worked here, I know some tricks/these doors can be bypassed/the reset switch is in here!'. Instead, even at the facility he was stationed, we again get Rey reaching in and fixing things. "Girl sure knows her stuff!" indeed, even on a First Order base. It was a perfect opportunity for the so far unimpressive Finn.

It's the calculation which is difficult. Hence the use of computers.

Which as noted, were beyond the scope of Luke. But not Rey.

Apparently flying at hyperspace is no more difficult than " pushing a button".

See below.

It's also the Mil.. Falcon, which had previously had modifications made to it by various owners to improve/enhance it.

Some of them- like the compressor- seemingly not beneficial, as Rey points out. But you can only enhance a truck so much. It's still a truck and it will always handle worse than a sportscar.

That may well be what they're supposed to be, however if one is honest TIE fighter pilots regularly display the skillset and self preservation of a suicidal lemming.

That's all that relevant. They're in small, high performance vehicles. She's in an aging bucket she herself describes as garbage. They should be all over her, blowing holes in her left right and centre.

Whenever main characters in Star wars come up against TIE fighters they outfly them.

Unless they're chasing a TIE and it makes it to the Death Star. Or they're being let go to track them back to the base. Or someone swoops in to save them at the last second.

She manages to do this without the aid of a co pilot (or shields) too- a testament to how little fire she actually took. And the cherry on top of course is lining up a TIE with a locked up gun. Finn can barely hit them with the targeting computer and a swivel but from the cockpit she can line up a gun she can't even see.

It was a proper "hail mary" attempt that worked.

Obviously. But the only reason she needed to do it was because the gun was jammed. Jammed but not destroyed. Aside from the fact there's a second cannon array on the Falcon, this isn't just implausible but it goes to the idea Rey is a favoured character (I don't want to say Mary Sue because that devolves into arguing about the label on the box rather than it's contents. Definitional arguments are extremely weak). Finn could have just shot the TIE but instead we're treated to a slow mo shot of just how utterly bad ass a pilot Rey is.

So travelling through hyperspace is incredibly difficult.. except when Han does it, when it's just pushing a button.

Well I was more referring to his piloting, which ends with a crash than they hyperspace journey. Hyperspace is difficult to plot but is then largely automated. There's a couple problems with that scene though (as you note below). Han can't possibly be doing a manual 'drop out'. Even if we ascribed hyperspace speed as 'merely' lightspeed there's no way he could possibly time it. Under the shields but before the surface is simply far, far too small of a window. It has to be a calculated drop out point based on the planetary location, handled by the computer. Humans simply can't make decisions, let alone carry out actions relevant to those speeds. We've seen the Falcon already has warnings and triggers to tell you when it's coming out of hyperspace so I'm far more inclined to say Han didn't actually do the dropping out but was just taking over with the sub light drive.

For me, plotting a course that involves you calculating to a few hundred meters the exact location where you'll drop out of hyperspace -- so you bypass the shields but don't smash into the vast stellar body on the other side of it is very impressive. Certainly more impressive than flying a ship through wrecks etc etc , a feat I've seen copied innumerable times in video games and the like by people who aren't pilots at all.

I'm not saying it's unimpressive, though as you said, that's what computers are for. But it's not a... heroic.. skill, plotting courses (unless it's done under duress).

TBF said routes have often required a few " practise runs ", if you follow me , but it's not exactly a lifetimes worth of dedication and hardwork.

Well exactly, but how many of them get it right first time? As a SWTOR player I've seen literally hundreds of experienced players fail this vary task in GSF.

The issue with Han and the Falcon was far more problematic for me, not least as it pretty much renders a lot of the shielding technology obsolete.
If they're capable of doing that -- and apparently that's no more difficult than pushing a button -- then I don't see why they don't just "kamikaze" ships like that all the time.
It would have been much easier just to load the ship up with explosives, throw in a droid -- perhaps even one of the less self aware ones in case anyone objects -- launch it into hyperspace and just come out past the shield and crash into the shield generator/whatever. Job done.
Hell, coming out a bit lower and simply hitting the planet would, presumably, do significant damage.

On this I don't disagree with you at all. It's a stupid error on JJ's part to make planetary shields so easily bypasses. Obviously the way to go are missiles with hyperdrives.But that doesn't fundamentally excuse anything else, or render anything else unimpressive.

Not sure if it's still canon, but entering hyperspace was supposed to make you massless or some such, so that if you hit a shield or planet you were just obliterated. This seems like it has to exist otherwise yeah, a pilot miscalculates and sends a 50 ton freighter into Coruscant at 5 times the speed of light? That's a wrecked planet. Planetary annihilation becomes an inevitable factor of time.

Ugh, this thread moves waaaay too fast.

Just read about some theories that Rey isn't a Skywalker at all, shes actually a...Kenobi. Apparently Obi Wan Kenobi had family back on his home planet, and Rey might be some distant relative from the Kenobi family - another force sensitive lineage to rival the Skywalker family. Luke Skywalker and Ben Solo traveled to Kenobi's home planet, met his family and recruited his "Grand niece" Rey. But Ben Solo felt humiliated when he began to be overshadowed by her potential because he is descended from The Chosen One not her, and he turned to the Dark Side to prove his strength.

The theory is weak as feth but I do like the possibility of her being a Kenobi.

 Kojiro wrote:
At no point does she ever require another character to do something. Not just to save her, but to do anything.

Just gotta shake my head right there, especially since she herself pretty much makes it clear that the argument is not true:

Finn: Turn on the shields!
Rey: I can't, they are out of reach, I need a co-pilot.

In addition to:

- Needs Finn to get the droid to tell her where the base is located.
- Needs Finn to man the guns on the Falcon because without him shooting the TIE fighters she dies.
- Needs someone to actually come and rescue her so she isn't on the base when it explodes, because without it she dies.
- Needs Finn to carry the light saber around so that she can actually fight when she decides to use it after rejecting it over and over again, because without it she dies.

To use Firefly, she's Wash the pilot, Kaylee the mechanic, Jane the brawler and Mal the independent, strong willed leader. Who happens also to be River the special. At no point does she ever require another character to do something. Not just to save her, but to do anything.

To use Star Wars, she's Luke the Pilot (trench run and destroying the Death Star and flying the snow speeders to take down the walkers), Luke the brawler (fighting his way out of Jabba's palace, taking on Darth Vader a couple of times), Luke the independent, strong willed leader (who talks Han into rescuing the princess, leads the snow speeders and tells them how to take on the walkers, sets the entire plan to rescue Han into motion), who also happens to be Luke the Special (because...Jedi). We could also use Anakin the Pilot, Anakin the Brawler, Anakin the Independent, and Anakin the Special.

Unless they're chasing a TIE and it makes it to the Death Star. Or they're being let go to track them back to the base. Or someone swoops in to save them at the last second.

So whenever plot requires them to defeat a TIE they do?

 d-usa wrote:

 Kojiro wrote:
At no point does she ever require another character to do something. Not just to save her, but to do anything.

Just gotta shake my head right there, especially since she herself pretty much makes it clear that the argument is not true:

Finn: Turn on the shields!
Rey: I can't, they are out of reach, I need a co-pilot.

In addition to:

- Needs Finn to get the droid to tell her where the base is located.
- Needs Finn to man the guns on the Falcon because without him shooting the TIE fighters she dies.
- Needs someone to actually come and rescue her so she isn't on the base when it explodes, because without it she dies.
- Needs Finn to carry the light saber around so that she can actually fight when she decides to use it after rejecting it over and over again, because without it she dies.

So basically her short comings are:

- Needs one of those reacher sticks.
- Needs a map.
- Needs a gun controller attached to the pilot system to fire rear weapons.
- Needs a ship.
- Needs a purse.

Seriously, all of those things aren't because she's unable to do it due to character flaws, but because she doesn't have long enough arms or more copies of herself. Basically, ask yourself this, could all of that have been done by any generic nameless red shirt crew member that we could literally not care about in the slightest, or did it require someone special? The answer is all of that could have been done with auto-pilot systems, with Rey being the only character, some of those could have been done simply by the controls being placed more conveniently, instead of in a fashion that said "Oh, we need something for this other person to do because we forget they were there."

Looking at what you said, Finn all of a sudden sounds like a Squire, like the one following Brienne of Tarth around, but at least Podrick does have his moments and Brienne is actually a complex character that has a lot of trials and tribulations, partially because of her own short comings, and partially because of the world itself, but she works to overcome it all.

 Peregrine wrote:
On the other hand, if she hadn't run away at all she wouldn't have been captured because she wouldn't have been alone and vulnerable.

Did you forget that Han, Chewie and Finn were also captured? There's a good chance she gets captured either way. If she's with them though BB-8 doesn't follow her to the forest (how did he get back up those stairs?) which means BB-8 is in the thick of it with everyone else.

There's an excellent chance her not running gets her and BB-8 captured and everyone except maybe Han cut down by Ren (since he never chases her into the forest). No, I don't think that firefight was significantly safer for her.

 Kojiro wrote:

For example, on the First Order base at one point they need access through some corridors. Circumvention of FO security systems. This would have been a perfect time for Finn to go 'yeah I worked here, I know some tricks/these doors can be bypassed/the reset switch is in here!'. Instead, even at the facility he was stationed, we again get Rey reaching in and fixing things. "Girl sure knows her stuff!" indeed, even on a First Order base. It was a perfect opportunity for the so far unimpressive Finn.

The opening of movie pretty much drives home the point that she's a skilled mechanic and been scrounging Imperial technology for a living. Living inside an AT-AT and looting the star destroyer in addition to working on the Falcon. Given she's probably spent a good decade or her life exposed to workings of Imperial machinery it doesn't seem to be any stretch that she'd know how to do something like bypass a door or reroute wiring.

Sure they could have Finn contribute, but he's also stormtrooper that works in sanitation which if if's anything like real world garbage haulers doesn't require much technical know how. He does a bunch of shooting and actually manages to hit stuff which is more than what most stormtroopers can do. Heck he even gets stabbed with a light saber and survives where most stormtroopers can't even handle being hit by a rock tipped spear held by a teddy bear.

He also did the one thing no other stormtrooper has ever done in all of the films, he actually found the droid they were looking for.

 Tinkrr wrote:

Looking at what you said, Finn all of a sudden sounds like a Squire, like the one following Brienne of Tarth around, but at least Podrick does have his moments

Because Finn doesn't do anything...

*sigh*

 d-usa wrote:
He knows the weakness of the weapon, the interior layout, helped Han get inside, stood up to Kylo Ren and saved Rey (who according to some was never saved by anyone), got Chewbacka back to the Falcon, treated his injuries, got the drop on Chromedome.

Again, his character is pretty much everything you would expect from someone that was raised to be a soldier.

 Tinkrr wrote:

Looking at what you said, Finn all of a sudden sounds like a Squire, like the one following Brienne of Tarth around, but at least Podrick does have his moments and Brienne is actually a complex character that has a lot of trials and tribulations, partially because of her own short comings, and partially because of the world itself, but she works to overcome it all.

Really? Characters from a 2-hour movie have less development than characters from a 50 hours (or is it 60, considering all the double features?) serie? Shocking!

Finn as Podrick? Really? Podrick, who'se high point as a character was "hookers wouldn't accept payment"?

 Kovnik Obama wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:

Looking at what you said, Finn all of a sudden sounds like a Squire, like the one following Brienne of Tarth around, but at least Podrick does have his moments and Brienne is actually a complex character that has a lot of trials and tribulations, partially because of her own short comings, and partially because of the world itself, but she works to overcome it all.

Really? Characters from a 2-hour movie have less development than characters from a 50 hours (or is it 60, considering all the double features?) serie? Shocking!

Finn as Podrick? Really? Podrick, who'se high point as a character was "hookers wouldn't accept payment"?

What? Podrick is awesome, what show have you been watching? Podrick is kind of a whipping post for a while, but he has insane perseverance and really shines when put to the task despite his rather soft personality traits. Yes, he can come off as rather dopey at times, but he's actually done a lot of cool stuff in the series, that seems to shock most people in the story due to how humble he is. He also preformed more valiantly than Finn in his first war :/.

Also, it's 50 hours in a series that has significantly more main characters, plot lines, and so forth. So sure, you can look at the raw numbers and make that claim, but I'm going to take a guess here and say that if you took all the footage Pod was in, it'd probably be less than two hours of screen time, and even then it could be cut to about an hour of story so that you can have the other hour devoted to Kylo Ren or whatever since no movie only has the hero on screen.

 Tinkrr wrote:
He also preformed more valiantly than Finn in his first war :/.

Defecting was the most valiant thing Finn could do short of starting to shoot his squadmate (which would have quickly led to him being very dead).

And let's not go overboard. Podrick backstabbed a dude. The only reason he's considered the hero he is considered is because he saved Tyrion, someone we actually have a good reason to like. And because "they wouldn't accept payment".

 Kovnik Obama wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
He also preformed more valiantly than Finn in his first war :/.

Defecting was the most valiant thing Finn could do short of starting to shoot his squadmate (which would have quickly led to him being very dead).

And let's not go overboard. Podrick backstabbed a dude. The only reason he's considered the hero he is considered is because he saved Tyrion, someone we actually have a good reason to like. And because "they wouldn't accept payment".

I'm not saying Finn didn't do anything, I like Finn, that's why I compared him to Podrick as I also like Podrick, but he certainly is more of a squire than a knight like Rey in the movie.

Except he was told he shouldn't be at the battle due to his age, and still went to protect Tyrion. Brienne of Tarth told him to bugger off multiple times but he stuck around and even had some action scenes when they fought some guys, to the extent that Brienne began to appreciate him as a good friend, even telling him about her views on Renly.

That's what makes Podrick great, he's not an action hero and he's made out to be inexperienced but he tries, despite being given an easy way out, and as such people grow to like him that otherwise don't tend to like others. He's a novice and a squire, do you really expect him to be a valiant warrior like Brienne? No, but he sticks it out, and is very well meaning, while also having his moments in combat, doing the very thing he is supposed to do as a squire, such as protecting Tyrion. Sorry, but if you don't think he's an amazing character, you're kind of wrong D:

Finally got a chance to go see this.

Enjoyed the hell out of it. Little disappointed that Phasma turned out to be pretty much irrelevant. Amused that Chewbacca had all of the best lines...

Sure, there were a lot of parralels to the original movie, and it was all a bit rushed... But it felt far more like Star Wars than the prequels did, and left me really excited for the next movie.

 insaniak wrote:
Finally got a chance to go see this.

Enjoyed the hell out of it. Little disappointed that Phasma turned out to be pretty much irrelevant. Amused that Chewbacca had all of the best lines...

Sure, there were a lot of parralels to the original movie, and it was all a bit rushed... But it felt far more like Star Wars than the prequels did, and left me really excited for the next movie.

Hence why it is had made over 853 Million Dollars in its first week!

A big issue I see is that if Rey is memory wiped, that it is still something of a tall order she is filling... in everything she's doing. Plus, that story can be easily convoluted, which really, sounds like the crux of the debate - what parts are actually absurd - in the most basic sense.

To me, it really does not help Rey simply looks like a weakling, but hey its SW, yoda isn't exactly all that impressive looking, and watch what he can do. I guess this principle is just something occasionally I have to remember when it comes to the internal logic of genres. Perhaps Warhammer has spoiled me in some ways.

Then again, Yoda has the saving grace of having droopy ears and talking like Dr. Seuss - where seriousness is reduced a bit in a good way.




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 Asherian Command wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Finally got a chance to go see this.

Enjoyed the hell out of it. Little disappointed that Phasma turned out to be pretty much irrelevant. Amused that Chewbacca had all of the best lines...

Sure, there were a lot of parralels to the original movie, and it was all a bit rushed... But it felt far more like Star Wars than the prequels did, and left me really excited for the next movie.

Hence why it is had made over 853 Million Dollars in its first week!

People were lined up, charged up to see it, regardless if it were good or not. JJ Abrams could have done Star Trek with Star Wars tones and I bet people still would have thought it was fantastic - maybe not as many. Maybe this wouldn't have raked in 800 million in the first week, perhaps only 600?

Disney knows how to work the franchises.

 kveldulf wrote:
A big issue I see is that if Rey is memory wiped, that it is still something of a tall order she is filling... in everything she's doing. Plus, that story can be easily convoluted, which really, sounds like the crux of the debate - what parts are actually absurd - in the most basic sense.

To me, it really does not help Rey simply looks like a weakling, but hey its SW, yoda isn't exactly all that impressive looking, and watch what he can do. I guess this principle is just something occasionally I have to remember when it comes to the internal logic of genres. Perhaps Warhammer has spoiled me in some ways.

Then again, Yoda has the saving grace of having droopy ears and talking like Dr. Seuss - where seriousness is reduced a bit in a good way.

Weakling?

Isn't that a wee bit sexist?

Finally got a chance to go see this.

Enjoyed the hell out of it. Little disappointed that Phasma turned out to be pretty much irrelevant. Amused that Chewbacca had all of the best lines...

Sure, there were a lot of parralels to the original movie, and it was all a bit rushed... But it felt far more like Star Wars than the prequels did, and left me really excited for the next movie.

Yeah I felt that too. But I think we might see more of Phasma. Or more scenes with the awesome trooper in the extras.

People were lined up, charged up to see it, regardless if it were good or not. JJ Abrams could have done Star Trek with Star Wars tones and I bet people still would have thought it was fantastic - maybe not as many. Maybe this wouldn't have raked in 800 million in the first week, perhaps only 600?

Bit of a stretch because it is starwars. Hell the first star trek he did was basically starwars the new hope!

You can't get anymore star wars than the new star trek movie that came out by JJ abrams!

Rey is definitely a Skywalker or Solo, the Disney Infinity game has a soundbite of Kylo Ren saying "Face me, cousin" when Rey and him fight.

 Asherian Command wrote:


Weakling?

Isn't that a wee bit sexist?

How does 'weakling' here relate to sexist? Are you saying women are weak?


*********

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Perhaps Rey is the product of Luke and Leia...

Maybe that was the real reason why Luke was crying at the end - tears of dread about how to explain that.

It would also explain why she's got bucket loads of force too.

lol

chaos0xomega wrote:
Rey is definitely a Skywalker or Solo, the Disney Infinity game has a soundbite of Kylo Ren saying "Face me, cousin" when Rey and him fight.

No, it's actually 'Curses!'. Basically, whenever he takes damage, he says 'Curses!'. He randomly says 'Face Me!'. The original recorded footage was him gabbing a barrel and saying 'Face Me!' and then taking damage from the barrel exploding and quickly putting a 'Curses!' in there. The end of the article has a few example of the dialogue, it's not 'Cousin'.

 kveldulf wrote:

To me, it really does not help Rey simply looks like a weakling,

Well yea, I mean Jedi are more like rogues than warriors, they're about agility and trickery than they are about brute force, so they're not going to really look imposing physically. All things considered Luke was a major pretty boy, and Anakin was about as buff as an emo kid, so really it's no surprise that Grevious was considered physically imposing despite also being rather lithe in nature.

 Kovnik Obama wrote:
Huh, a flaw is only a flaw if it cannot possibly be corrected? So a good character must be absolutely incapable of character growth, in order to be a good character? Thats beyond ridiculous, but if you think you'll make a better screenwriter with those insane theories, go ahead, I'm sure I'll avoid your films like the pestilence.

We both know that's nothing like what I said.

But a flaw can't be overcome in ten minutes by you becoming a master spacewizard. That's not a flaw, that's just a fething plot point.

 Kovnik Obama wrote:
Really? Characters from a 2-hour movie have less development than characters from a 50 hours (or is it 60, considering all the double features?) serie? Shocking!

Finn as Podrick? Really? Podrick, who'se high point as a character was "hookers wouldn't accept payment"?

How much screen time does Podrick actually get? It's less than 2 hours.

Podrick's characterisation is that of someone from a gakky, twisted family (distant cousin of Ilyn Payne) who constantly tries to be good and perseveres through everything for it. He's not perfect, he's not even really all that good, but he TRIES.

Podrick is basically an anti-Sue.

 nullBolt wrote:


How much screen time does Podrick actually get? It's less than 2 hours.

Podrick's characterisation is that of someone from a gakky, twisted family (distant cousin of Ilyn Payne) who constantly tries to be good and perseveres through everything for it. He's not perfect, he's not even really all that good, but he TRIES.

Podrick is basically an anti-Sue.

Yes, oh my god yes!

Podrick is the character that is seen as a joke by everyone in the show, but he keeps at it, and over time everyone sees him as a serious person. It's basically the character that has a family name, but wants to prove himself, and despite all of that is pretty goofy, and so it takes even longer as he's very much a normal person. He's the perfect example of someone with a legacy that other's just brush off, but wants to live up to what he is given, despite not being perfect, and all the while he's super humble as he wants to do it right instead of coasting on the coattails of his family name. Heck, not once does he invoke his family name, and no one really mentions it, I know he was saved because of it, but that's such a side thing that he's a real hero for being so humble, despite his ability to just kind of act out.

I get it, he's goofy, but that's because he's a kid in a complex world with no understanding of things, but he tries more than anyone, and considering how little power he has it takes so much for him to stand up as he does to those who are stupidly powerful.

Yea, he backstabbed a guy to save Tyrion, but the guy he backstabbed was a Gold Cloak, think about that, he believed in Tyrion so much that he killed a royal guard to save him. Sure, he didn't kill him in hand to hand combat, but that's a massive leap of faith to just kill someone that high up just to save a person who isn't seen all that well in the world. That's like a Guardsman killing a Commissar to save an Ogryn, yikes.


Edit: And more so, the fact he killed a guy from behind shows how good of a character he is, since he's still just a squire, he didn't just show up and beat the trained warrior in direct combat like Rey did, he actually had to do something back handed during a battle to become a hero. So yea, maybe if Rey just stabbed Kylo from behind I could understand it, but come on, could you imagine Podrick just showing up and besting a Goldcloak like Rey bested a Sith?

The Goldcloaks of the King's Guard were insanely good, just look at Ser Barristan, Look at the minor Gold Cloaks on the side, they don't even draw their weapons, unlike the ones in the King's Guard, which Podrick killed from behind:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Just read about some theories that Rey isn't a Skywalker at all, shes actually a...Kenobi. Apparently Obi Wan Kenobi had family back on his home planet, and Rey might be some distant relative from the Kenobi family - another force sensitive lineage to rival the Skywalker family. Luke Skywalker and Ben Solo traveled to Kenobi's home planet, met his family and recruited his "Grand niece" Rey. But Ben Solo felt humiliated when he began to be overshadowed by her potential because he is descended from The Chosen One not her, and he turned to the Dark Side to prove his strength.

The theory is weak as feth but I do like the possibility of her being a Kenobi.

He's supposedly getting his own movie set between parts 3 & 4 too right ?

I wouldn't be too surprised if during that he meets, falls in love with and etc etc.

Guess given the fact the jedi order is no longer around some of the rules might not apply.

... I have some vague memories of him being attracted to/having a bit of a thing with a character -- a queen or an empress or something maybe ? -- during some of the clone wars cartoon series ....

so this being his grand-daughter/cryo'ed child/clone hybrid/whatever doesn't seem too implausible.

.. for star wars anyway

Speaks Droid and Wookie.

..we're claiming that speaking a foreign language is some freakish ability beyond the ken of mortal man now then ?

I'll grant you it's odd that anyone understands what R2 et al means when they beep and squeak. But that's not a plot flaw it's just saving time from having everything translated which would get real dull, real fast.

Han seems to speak several languages -- Greedo, Hutt.. whatever the one that Leia is speaking when she rescues him, the language(s) of the aliens who turn up in this one after their money.

In fact it seems to be Luke who is about the only one who doesn't understand Hutt....err... Huttese .. whatever, which is awkward.

works out alright though.

Hell, the Dr. that patches up Chewie understands what he was saying but I don't think that makes her some incredible genre breaking unrealistic post feminist icon.
... even though she's presumably better at that than Finn

Overall I'm not sure the star wars films would be improved by having everyone stood around every time there's a conversation going " err.. what".

..... that said works quite well if you're running an RPG campaign and want to make things awkward for the players in a scenario or 2


edit :

back to the Kenobi theory




..maybe then.

It's the sort of cobbled together plan that a Kenobi/similar might come up with.

This is after all the person who when going deep undercover to protect himself and Luke didn't actually bother changing his surname and wandered around wearing Jedi robes.

.. and then didn't recognise the droid that Anakin built from scrap or the R2 unit they'd had so many adventures with eh ?

I really hope Rey isn't a Kenobi or a Skywalker, then SW would just devolve into a long running game of family feud.

 TheSilo wrote:
I really hope Rey isn't a Kenobi or a Skywalker, then SW would just devolve into a long running game of family feud.

I believe I read somewhere Lucas mentions that Star Wars is/was a soap opera.

I'd much lean in that direction then just add pew pew spaceships and ninjas.

Man, I need a bottle of aspirin after reading all the "Mary Sue" and "SJW" crap. Everyone (with intelligence) was offended by the prequel. JJ knew this, and built an homage to ANH to get people back into the feel of Star Wars. So what happens? A bunch of people who want to stand out as snowflakes say it's "too similar to ANH". Well, good. It's what JJ needed to do to rope everyone back in. The next two can build, but this was most certainly a movie designed to pull back the loved series. If you don't like that, well, bully for you.

It's been pointed out countless times how bad things happen to Rey. So she beats Kylo after he's been stabbed, shot, and had to do something that emotionally wrecked him. He was honest-he didn't know if he had the strength. Problem was, he meant the strength to kill. Han thought the exact opposite, and thought it was the strength to return home and give up the dark. It ate him up. And he got beaten by the end of it. Rey and Luke both, at the end of their respective first movies, called upon the Force and did something extreme. But they both had to be saved countless times by others.

It was a damn good movie. You didn't like it? Boohoo for you. I don't care. I'm glad Abrams directed it, I'm glad he brought it back to the feel of the original trilogy, and I'm glad it's able to pull at emotional heartstrings the way it does. I sincerely don't care if a small handful of people online I'll never meet find ways to be offended by it.

I challenge you to do better.