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This is an update from a previous post and I realize most people aren't sure if George lucas could maybe be good doing new things but at least it won't disappoint previous fans anymore. George lucas being outside of Star Wars is probably best for most people. He won't be the one making the mega bucks now though I'm not sure he needs to care or does care at this point.

Hopefully he can make something halfway decent that is totally brand new (no currently existing franchise). I realize that must seem humorous given the special editions but still.

 -Loki- wrote:
I don't see how the attractiveness of the actor means anything, I'd rather they cast people who can play the role. If I want to look at pretty people, GIS isn't far away. Personalyl I think he nailed the character.

I agree.

Most children don't have that uncanny valley resemblance to their parents. Driver has a vague resemblance to a similarly aged Ford, which is all you need for that. And more than most movies try to do.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the resemblance.

While it's not super important for actors to resemble who they are supposed to be portraying, I think it is a "nice to have". It's just one of those things like when an actor gets switched between seasons, we can deal with it but it messes with our suspension of disbelief. I think it's always a plus when they cast someone who looks right, especially if it is to play a younger version of a character, or a relative. They did a great job in X-files, for example, with Scully's sister (it's totally believable that they are sisters). While In Looper, Joseph Gordon-Levitt being a young Bruce Willis is a bit of a stretch. I dunno if I was really ever happy with Ewan McGregor as a young Obi-Wan either. There is some resemblance but I'd never honestly buy that they are the same person. I think with all the facial recognition software we have these days, casting directors could probably do a lot better. I remember messing with a facial recognition site and it found some guy who was a boxer in the 1950s who looks just like me.

And you can't really argue that they need "good actors" because none of the prequel acting was good. I bet they could have found some guy in the extra pool who was the spitting image of Alec Guinness, for a tenth of what hiring Ewan McGregor costs, and he could have acted the part just as badly. They could have even had a good Guinness impersonator dub his lines, like they did with James Earl Jones. I would have loved gak like that.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Hopefully he can make something halfway decent that is totally brand new (no currently existing franchise).

Unlikely, given that his stated reason for selling Lucasfilm was that he wanted to retire.

Lets hope the contract with Disney included a gagging clause so he he doesn't spend his retirement bitching about the Star Wars sequels and how they're not real Star Wars films or whatever it was that he was slagging them off over in that interview.

If I had, what was it, 40 billion dollars, I'd think about retiring too...

 Compel wrote:
If I had, what was it, 40 billion dollars, I'd think about retiring too...

He can use that 40 billion to fund his hobby, making political commentary movies about trade negotiations.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
But yeah, Kylo should have kept his helmet on till the bridge scene. And they should have kept him being Han's son a secret till then too. JJ laid all the cards out on the table too quickly.

No, you really have that wrong. The storytelling decision was sound. If you wait to make the big reveal there, you lose all the buildup to that moment and the poignancy of the conversation. It'd be extremely rushed and confusing to an audience.

Yeah, I agree. It would have severely cheapened the entire moment if no one mentions Ben is Han and Leia's son and out of nowhere, Han confronts him on the bridge and SUPRISE!

Laying things out gradually so that the viewer can guess what happens next isn't bad storytelling (not everything can be a total surpise) when the scene pays off and it paid off here.

It wasn't a bad scene as is, but the problem is that there was no surprise when they said that Kylo was actually Ben Solo way at the beginning, it was too low key. Less is more when it comes to story telling, and laying it out immediately was a mistake. Not a crippling one, but a mistake nonetheless.

The bridge scene also needed some more build up, similar to the build-up to Luke and Vader's fight on Bespin. This whole movie was basically action out the gate and it didn't let us down till the end.

My guess for the low key mentioning that Ben was their son was due to already borrowing a lot from previous films. Having an 'I am your father' moment, on a bridge, would have been going too far.

It probably should have or could have been the first time we saw his face though. Seeing his face humanised him and delaying it would have lended more weight to the exchange with Han:

"If I remove my helmet, what do you think you will see?"
"The face of my son."

Ren removes his helmet, and for the first we see his face, we see the emotional struggle and doubt in him for the first time, we wonder "maybe Han will redeem him" then BAM!

Hans dead.

I think humanising him was the point for how far he's going to fall in VIII.

Well, I expect in Episode 8 we will see a much darker Ren, partly because of:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Well, I expect in Episode 8 we will see a much darker Ren, partly because of:

Spoiler:

Snoke said something about completing Ren's training. I suspect that means he is going to really work on turning him into a proper little evil monster.

And also...

Given Ren's struggle with the light and Rey's anger fueled win during the duel perhaps they will end up on the opposite side next time they fight.

It wasnt anger that helped Rey triumph over Ren, it was calm. She closed her eyes and let the force flow through her, she used it as a focus to steady herself. A direct contrast to Ren who was unfocused and punching his gut wound to keep himself motivated.

Ren isn't coming back. Killing his father cemented his place in the darkside. While Vader had Luke, the good in him that was left. Ren now has no one. The light going out in that scene was more than just the last rays of sunlight draning away.

lonestarr777 wrote:
It wasnt anger that helped Rey triumph over Ren, it was calm. She closed her eyes and let the force flow through her, she used it as a focus to steady herself. A direct contrast to Ren who was unfocused and punching his gut wound to keep himself motivated.

Ren isn't coming back. Killing his father cemented his place in the darkside. While Vader had Luke, the good in him that was left. Ren now has no one. The light going out in that scene was more than just the last rays of sunlight draning away.

He does still have his mother.

I don't think we're going to see Ren die unredeemed. It doesn't really fit with the Star Wars style, in my opinion.

 Eldarain wrote:
Given Ren's struggle with the light and Rey's anger fueled win during the duel perhaps they will end up on the opposite side next time they fight.

Now that, is an interesting idea.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
He does still have his mother.

I don't think we're going to see Ren die unredeemed. It doesn't really fit with the Star Wars style, in my opinion.

I think they're purposefully making Ben irredeemable, which is a welcome change because Vader in Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back (just a cold and menacing badass) is a far better villain than he is in Return of the Jedi.

Okay, I finally went to see the movie. I think it is awesome.
Some things I noticed:
1. The First Order and Resistance both must be really nostalgic for the Empire/Rebel Alliance. It almost feels like they are playing out the same conflict, complete with huge planet-killing base and trench run.
2. Kylo Ren... is not what I expected. I had expected something like Darth Vader, not young Severus Snape that gets beaten up by a stormtrooper and a peasant girl. I hope he will grow.
3. Captain Phasma. Is he a she? I wonder what she looks like. And what happened to her. I hope she returns.
4. I am sitting in the train right now, next to a bunch of drunk old dudes. One of them just threw up... Alcohol should be banned.

Captain Phasma is played by Gwendolyne Christie, a supermodel and actress who plays "Brienne of Tarth" in Game of Thrones.

 Eldarain wrote:
Given Ren's struggle with the light and Rey's anger fueled win during the duel perhaps they will end up on the opposite side next time they fight.

Nah, Ren's light went out with the sun, as not so subtly show by Abrams. Snoke sensed it, as he sensed the light previously, and only now has decided to finish Ren's training. The last of his light is gone. And that's ok, because some characters are just irredeemable. Rey will never go dark, she can't. It'd be a PR nightmare. Finally there's a super kick ass female lead and they have her fall to the dark side? If you want to see unfavourable comparisons to Luke, that's it right there. Luke had his test, his moment to fall and he passed. He was a jedi like his father before him, even if it cost him his life. There is no way Rey will do anything less.

 Compel wrote:
Captain Phasma is played by Gwendolyne Christie, a supermodel and actress who plays "Brienne of Tarth" in Game of Thrones.

Never saw Game of Thrones (not planning to until after I finish reading the books and I can get the whole thing on DVD), but isn't Brienne supposed to be ugly, like really ugly? Then why is she portrayed by a supermodel?
Also, for some reason I already thought of Phasma as blonde. Funny.


Also, it would have been fun to see Rey go over to the Dark Side with Ren. Would certainly have been interesting.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Compel wrote:
Captain Phasma is played by Gwendolyne Christie, a supermodel and actress who plays "Brienne of Tarth" in Game of Thrones.

Never saw Game of Thrones (not planning to until after I finish reading the books and I can get the whole thing on DVD), but isn't Brienne supposed to be ugly, like really ugly? Then why is she portrayed by a supermodel?

I don't think the books portray her as "really ugly", but she is definitely not a classical beauty in them. But it's easier to use makeup to make someone look rougher than it is to make them look stunning. She also has the physical presence required to play Brienne at 190cm.



Edit (to bring it back on-topic): The physical presence is one of the reasons she was cast as Phasma.

Well, attractiveness is often subjective. Attractiveness, or lack thereof is also not all there is to a character - or a person!

Normal Gwendolyne:

Brienne of Tarth:

Gwendoline Christie isn't a "supermodel" but she does do modeling work.

In her portrayal of Brienne of Tarth, she is definitely more attractive on the show than how she is described in the book. In the book, she's had multiple broken noses, crooked teeth (a couple of which get knocked out, and a wide mouth with swollen lips. However, her eyes are described by Jamie as being surprisingly pretty.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Gwendoline Christie isn't a "supermodel" but she does do modeling work.

In her portrayal of Brienne of Tarth, she is definitely more attractive on the show than how she is described in the book. In the book, she's had multiple broken noses, crooked teeth (a couple of which get knocked out, and a wide mouth with swollen lips. However, her eyes are described by Jamie as being surprisingly pretty.

Also, she apparently is lacking in the "lady hump" department in the books



But then again, as Captain Phasma... we don't really need to know what she looks like. I kind of wish we'd have seen some Captain Phasma in actual fighting action during TFA, but I suppose we'll have to see if she gets to fight in some other movie.

She should be dead, I mean would you keep the person who killed your base alive?

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Also, she apparently is lacking in the "lady hump" department in the books

I noticed Captain Phasma didn't get a boob plate either. Damned SJWs!

Though I feel like they did try to suggest a more famine shape in some of the artwork regardless, I guess people just can't help themselves.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Lets hope the contract with Disney included a gagging clause so he he doesn't spend his retirement bitching about the Star Wars sequels and how they're not real Star Wars films or whatever it was that he was slagging them off over in that interview.

Let George Lucas have his say. It doesn't matter anyway.

Back to Kylo Ren, I liked the character, I liked the actor, I thought he was handsome in a non-cosmetically-improved way and definitely resembled Harrison Ford. It's in the nose and to some degree the hair and hair style. Definitely believable as a son.

Rey has a strong resemblance to Leia in face/body, and to Luke in styling. No doubt this is deliberate.

 Kojiro wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Given Ren's struggle with the light and Rey's anger fueled win during the duel perhaps they will end up on the opposite side next time they fight.

Nah, Ren's light went out with the sun, as not so subtly show by Abrams. Snoke sensed it, as he sensed the light previously, and only now has decided to finish Ren's training. The last of his light is gone. And that's ok, because some characters are just irredeemable.

I think here is where we get into a discussion about what "redemption" means. Was Anakin Skywalker redeemed for all his uncountable, terrible acts because he tossed the Emperor down a hole? I think he turned to the light at the very end, but I don't think it represented a settling of accounts or an absolution, even if he got his force ghost.

Yes, I think Ren could still turn to the light at the end like Vader/Anakin.

Regarding likenesses...



But then I think Ridley looks even more like Portman. I don't think that's an accident and it's one of many reasons why I don't think she's a Kenobi.

Unless Obi Wan had a thing for necrophilia and was really powerful with the force!