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Hi folks,

I am new to the gaming scene. Been painting for a while.

The weekend before last I played my first two AoS skirmishes. Both pick up games. BOTH armies were unpainted/unfinished. The second army didn't even have an undercoat - it was just grey.

Have to say as a hobbyist who has patiently spent many hours painting my O&G army to a reasonable table-top standard, being pitted against two unpainted armies just felt .... cheap and nasty.

I actually almost suggested to the second fellow I played against that rather than playing, he should pull up a seat at the painters table and get cracking. I didn't because I didn't want to seem rude.

How do you guys deal with players who want to battle with an unpainted army? Does it irritate you?

PS Enjoyed AoS as a game - although I had large blocks of goblin infantry which took quite a long time to shuffle around the board and pile in with :S

Cheers

I'm perfectly fine with it. Each person hobbies in their own way. Some people might not have time to paint, others may be bad painters and they don't want to make the attempt. The player may have only recently finished assembling the models and wanted to try them out. And yes. It would have been rude to suggest the guy spend time painting instead of playing, i know it would have irritated me.

I don't like to paint. I do like to model or convert. I get maybe one hour per week on average with access to all my hobby equipment and table. Guess how I spend my time.

I have some KoW stuff that has been spray painted, and some hero minis that I've kind of started painting, so I guess I shouldn't be allowed to play. It's not like gamer attitude wasn't already a thing, so I get it.

Best thing to do, paint your own models. The more people in a group paint the more likely those who don't like painting will suck it up and give it a shot.

While I prefer painted, I look at the effort it takes to paint my own stuff and can understand why people don't want to do it themselves. I wish 6-15mm gaming was more popular because it takes no time at all paint up armies of those.

I prefer painted armies myself and notice if models are partially or not painted. Otherwise it makes no difference to me, not my army so no legit reason to bring it up.
Each person make their army in their own way. As stated above it could be a time issue or eagerness to play. Looks like no harm done on your part so no worries.

 Swastakowey wrote:
I wish 6-15mm gaming was more popular because it takes no time at all paint up armies of those.

Have you heard of Dropzone Commander? Here's a thread for it. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/654108.page

 WarAngel wrote:
I prefer painted armies myself and notice if models are partially or not painted. Otherwise it makes no difference to me, not my army so no legit reason to bring it up.
Each person make their army in their own way. As stated above it could be a time issue or eagerness to play. Looks like no harm done on your part so no worries.

 Swastakowey wrote:
I wish 6-15mm gaming was more popular because it takes no time at all paint up armies of those.

Have you heard of Dropzone Commander? Here's a thread for it. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/654108.page

Cheers man, but I already play too many games of all sorts haha. One day maybe.

Honestly I don't even like fielding units that aren't painted. I'm in the practice of painting then assembling, which prevents me from fielding units that are unpainted. Granted, this makes building an ork army a lengthy process, but I think it's well worth it. Seeing a fully painted army in action is its own victory.

While I would prefer to play against a painted army im okay with playing against an unpainted army. To me the game looks so much cooler when both armies are fully painted. I put alot of time and effort into painting and then to usually play against people who have an unpainted army is annoying. I usually try to gently pressure my friends into painting their armies although this tends to never work. Considering painting is a massive part of the hobby I dont see how people could go so long without even painting a single guy in their army.

Me I couldn't care less. It is their army by the way, you did not spend the money on their models, they can do what they please.

Even GW has said that in official policy they don't care either, so there you have it.

I paint my models to good tabletop standard, it is therapy and it calms me down.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Seeing a fully painted army in action is its own victory.

+1

Agree 100%

I don't know for some reason I feel a little bit put out by the whole unpainted army thing - and I can't quite put my finger on why.

I just know from my own perspective that I would never contemplate fielding an unpainted model because the model is not worthy to be placed on the table.

Perhaps out of respect or courtesy...honor...or a combination thereof... I don't know it just doesn't feel right somehow... merely my own perspective on the matter.

Painting before assembly...now theres something I haven't thought of... how do you find gluing the separate components together once painted?

I very rarely, if ever get to play, so I have to field what I have available.

I've got about a half painted army at the moment.

Am I the only one who likes the look of an assembled but unpainted model?
I thinking of having one for AoS that I have just this way.

Tinwhistle wrote:
Hi folks,

I am new to the gaming scene. Been painting for a while.

The weekend before last I played my first two AoS skirmishes. Both pick up games. BOTH armies were unpainted/unfinished. The second army didn't even have an undercoat - it was just grey.

Have to say as a hobbyist who has patiently spent many hours painting my O&G army to a reasonable table-top standard, being pitted against two unpainted armies just felt .... cheap and nasty.

I actually almost suggested to the second fellow I played against that rather than playing, he should pull up a seat at the painters table and get cracking. I didn't because I didn't want to seem rude.

How do you guys deal with players who want to battle with an unpainted army? Does it irritate you?

PS Enjoyed AoS as a game - although I had large blocks of goblin infantry which took quite a long time to shuffle around the board and pile in with :S

Cheers

It is a choice. I don't paint my miniatures, because I don't have time to do that and, frankly, I hate painting - I don't have the patience, I get irritated easily. I am a decent painter, don't get me wrong, but decent is not enough for me and I don't have time to learn how to paint well enough to be okay with every miniature I put out on the table. And I can't afford paying someone to paint all my armies just so someone won't whine that he's playing against unpainted models.

Not to mention that I personally enjoy the look of unpainted GW plastic, those miniatures look - in my opinion - good on my shelves and I wouldn't take it kindly if someone suggested that I stopped playing and went to paint my miniatures. I'd label him as a douche even if I understand why some people might be unhappy about playing against unpainted miniatures because they invested time into perfecting their own, but I, to be honest, would rather play against unpainted army, than against what a lot of people field with only basic colours slapped indiscriminately all over the models, resulting in what looks like 5 year old's painting just to meet tournament standards and not bother any further. If he's okay with such terribly painted army (I would never say it in his face, though - my manners are better than that and I understand that it's still his effort and work put in there, so I'm not to diss it), I can be okay with unpainted miniatures that look clean, tidy and have visible details.

Either properly plainted or no paint at all. If I can't find time to paint it well enough for me to be proud of myself, I won't paint it at all. I don't want to ruin my miniatures just for someone else to not get his knickers in a twist. And I sincerely believe that undercoated armies look 100 times worse, than clean plastic ones.

If someone is half-way through painting their army I don't mind playing.

In general, though, the reason I play tabletop games is to enjoy the spectacle of the armies and terrain, otherwise I would just play computer games or board games, so I would not play against a completely unpainted army if it was at all avoidable.

I disagree with the idea that "it's their army so they can do what they want" on two grounds:

1. Wargaming is a social pursuit that people do together. In this respect, their army is not their army for the duration of the game, it is our army to enjoy together.
2. If we are going to take the My Army view, my army is my army and I can do what I want, which is to not play an unpleasant looking game.

Realistically I appreciate that people don't have infinite time for painting. I don't either. There are various ways around this:

Techniques like spray painting, shades, and shield and flag transfers, to get figures up to decent tabletop standard quickly and easily. They won't win a Golde Demon but they will look great en masse on the table.

Alternatively, buy painted armies. I have several. I'm prouder of the armies I have made myself, but I don't have the time or the eyesight to paint everything I want to play.

It's interesting that people are already starting to have the unpainted army complaint about AoS, which has the advantage that the core set is very small and can easily be painted mainly with spray paints. The Sigmarines only have about 20 figures and are all gold with colour accents. The bloke on a Griffin wants a bit more time spent on him, but he is your centrepiece model.

Other than mimicking Kilkrazy's opinion I have to add that last time I was in a GW store, interested in AoS, they'd set up the starter models with just gold and red undercoats and it just looked sad.

You know, some people get into the hobby the wrong way. If he happens to bring up the whole lack of painting thing, then I would point him to ebay. There are some armies fully painted on there sometimes at retail cost or less - already painted. If he's patient enough, he can snag a deal and then sell his current stuff. This is a win/win for a gamer like him.

ChazLikesCake wrote:
Other than mimicking Kilkrazy's opinion I have to add that last time I was in a GW store, interested in AoS, they'd set up the starter models with just gold and red undercoats and it just looked sad.

To be fair to them, I was in the local GW on pre-order day for AoS. They'd only received the shop copy the day before, and they had been up until 3am assembling and spraying everything.

Painted vs unpainted armies - I don't field unpainted models, but you can do as you like. I travel a lot with work, and I appreciate that not everyone has the time to paint.

Some shops are better than others. I have been into three GWs recently, looking at the AoS setups. In none of them had done more than spray the Sigmarines gold and the Khornies red, but in some of the shops they had fantastic looking models and conversions in the display cases.

I know nearly all the shops are one man nowadays, but I am a bit surprised that it's taking more people than a month from release to paint the AoS starter models. It's not a good advertisement for the game or for wargaming in general. GW themselves sell the sprays, shades, washes and normal paints; everything you need to do up a model, including a painting handbook!

Are any of those stores here in the South West perchance? I'm so far removed from the wargame community that if I find anyone on here remotely from the area I'm in that I'm going to latch on to them like a limpet.

Personally I prefer a single base coat, I think it does a great job, was for anyone and looks great on table but I do not care, you do what you want to do its yours toys

ChazLikesCake wrote:
Are any of those stores here in the South West perchance?

South West of where?

You can either suck it up and play them, or just choose not to play them. That's how you deal with it. It's their hobby as much as yours, if they'd rather play than paint that's their prerogative. You don't have to play them but you can't make them paint so either play anyway or don't.

MongooseMatt wrote:

ChazLikesCake wrote:
Are any of those stores here in the South West perchance?

South West of where?

England. Cider country.

Kilkrazy and Kveldulf, you seem to overlook one detail - not everyone wants to have half-assed paintjob on their models. EBay armies either cost a terrible lot if they're painted well or are painted so horribly that I would rather kill myself than play with one.

Some people just want to either keep it clean and neat without paint or have their minis painted at least "well". Or even painted in a colour scheme that they personally want.

For example: a person wants to have an army of Empire for Warhammer painted in Averland's colours. Find me a decently painted black and yellow Empire army on eBay. And then what if he wants to expand? He won't find more Empire painted in that same scheme by the same guy and, as we know, everyone's painting skills are different, so even if he finds more Averland-themed Empire miniatures they're going to look totally different (maybe even different shades or detail colours) than what he already has, making for a terrible, abominable patchwork. And if there aren't any Averland armies should he settle down for something he doesn't want just so someone's tingle for painted opposing army gets satisfied? Or wait maybe for years for someone to finally decide to sell it? I know where you were heading, but it's a terrible solution if you have any personal preferences.

Unpainted is always better, than mehly done so for me. If I can't be sure that I will be satisfied with how I can paint my toy soldiers, I won't paint them. And definetely I won't paint my miniatures for someone else just because the twist of his knickers makes his eyes pop as he sees grey plastic. If he doesn't want to play me because of that then that's even better reason for me to not play with him either - he's not the type of person I would like to spend my limited free time or be friends with.

Now I'm not saying that I'm going to play with unpainted minis forever - I hope to save up enough money to pay a nice studio to paint my armies for me at a level I will be happy with if I won't have the time to paint them myself, but if someone goes as far as expecting me to have it painted just because he likes it that way, then I will just tell him to go have an intercourse with himself.

I didn't actually realise there are people who prefer to play with unpainted figures, but if that is what you like, fair enough.

However I prefer to play with painted figures.

Never played with unpainted figures, never will. It offends my sensibilities.

Thankfully all my club are the same and no-one would even consider it an option.

The problem with your stance, Kleych - painted 'decently' or not at all - is that new painters have to start somewhere, and it's a little disingenuous to expect new hobbyists to paint up to your standards from the start, and then insist they shouldn't paint at all if they can't. My first marines weren't great, but after some seven years in the hobby, I've improved.

(This is, of course, completely excluding those who are physically unable to paint miniatures, whether it be from injuries or other issues).

I also think that personal standards might be set too high for people who haven't painted all that much. Not every model needs to look like a Golden Demon winner, but new painters try this and then get discouraged when a single tactical marine takes them three hours to paint.

I get comments on how good my miniatures look because I use techniques to paint them to my "tabletop" standard, which uses the meter rule - make it look good at a meter's distance, because that's the average viewing distance for gameplay. Washes and some basic highlighting make my minis look just as good from a meter away as somebody who spent much more time and effort for a result that only looks really good when you look at them from inches away. Not that they shouldn't do it - the minis still look great.

And, of course, I'll always dispute the "my hobby" statements - people who don't have painted miniatures aren't fully participating in the hobby, not "doing it their way." Which doesn't mean they can't use unpainted miniatures to play, of course - we all want to get games in, at the end of the day.

And congrats, AoS! You've had your first "unpainted vs painted" thread on Dakka. Here's to plenty more of those.

Addition: Just thought of this - Doesn't this play well into GW's vision of the HHHobby - buying their miniatures? We know that doing things like assembling, painting, and playing with GW's models are all secondary considerations.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I didn't actually realise there are people who prefer to play with unpainted figures, but if that is what you like, fair enough.

However I prefer to play with painted figures.

I think the core thing with me is that this hobby is (for me that is) 70-90% painting, modelling, converting... to actually ignore a simple paint job (and as you said, not really that hard) is really sad, a primer and a base paint do WONDERS.

I am not a big sigmarine fan but love the models (still have no built mine) but will give them a primer coat and a simple gold base and add details to only the weapons or "key" features (like wings for the angel guys) to distinguish them from the army, and that will be it.. I think it would great and at least allows me to SLOWLY learn to paint with them... (maybe give them individual shades as well) and these things are so easy to do ANYONE can do them.. and lets be honest, if you spent 30 hours building your army, whats another 2 hours giving them a paint job (a simple paint job is REALLY quick and easy to do)

OP if it effects your enjoyment of the game that much feel free to only play against other painted armies, you may find yourself with less games but if thats a fair trade of for you play how you want with who you want. Some people love to play but hate painting or see it as a chore though while you do not have to play against these people you probably shouldn't try to dictate to them how they use their models or play the game. Telling them they should go paint their models when they offer you a game is rude, saying sorry but I prefer to play against painted models as the aesthetic is a huge part of the enjoyment for me is not.

To sum up they don't have to paint their army to play, but you don't have to play against an unpainted army if you don't wish to.

Consider arranging some kind of journeymen tournament/campaign with other people in the store where you start off with a small group of painted models at a small points or models value and every 2 weeks or so add in x number painted models. No one will be forced to take part in it but its a great way to insentivise the people involved to paint their models as painting becomes an active part of taking part. People who don't paint their stuff can still take part but will be limited to only their painted models. As long as you make this clear from the very start then people won't feel its unfair as its what they have signed up for.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Best thing to do, paint your own models. The more people in a group paint the more likely those who don't like painting will suck it up and give it a shot.

While I prefer painted, I look at the effort it takes to paint my own stuff and can understand why people don't want to do it themselves. I wish 6-15mm gaming was more popular because it takes no time at all paint up armies of those.

You say that but while it is certainly much quicker there are often more models to paint at that scale. Im painting 30 something guys at a time for flames of war.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
1. Wargaming is a social pursuit that people do together. In this respect, their army is not their army for the duration of the game, it is our army to enjoy together.

Disagree with this on the basis that it is categorically false. Their army is their army until the day they decide to sell, donate or dispose of it. They have absolutely every right to field it as they want and no one else has the right to impose their own standards upon them or claim ownership of their property.

2. If we are going to take the My Army view, my army is my army and I can do what I want, which is to not play an unpleasant looking game.

This however, I totally agree with. You are well within your right to choose to not play someone for whatever reason.

Personally, I get to actually play Fantasy maybe once or twice a month, so I'm not going to be picky. Although I totally agree with Vitali. Two fully painted armies lined up against each other is an amazing feeling and are always memorable games, so much so that the result of the game can be considered secondary to the actual enjoyment of just playing.