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Played our first game tonight. It took a while as we needed to look up traits all the time but was fun overall.

We had four players (5 as one team shared) with 200 points on two teams: my Joker + 5 henchmen allied with Riddler + 3 bots + Deadshot against Batman + Batgirl and Green Arrow + Red Hood. We upped the board size to 4 feet and used 4 objectives per team because of the number of players which in retrospect was not a good idea. The heroes were terrifying to face but couldn't keep up with all the objectives, henchmen running around with loot and clues everywhere.

One rule question that came up was about the batclaw and what can you target with it. Can you target the ground or an object on the ground like a car if there is a greater than 10cm height difference like on a building. Also are tall lampposts valid batclaw targets.

As far as I'm aware, Batclaws can target any 'different surface' that the model can reach in a straight line without passing through obstacles, and can place the model at the end. With that in mind, I'd say the lamp post is out (unless you want to try and balance the heavy metal mini on the very thin spar ), but the following are acceptable:

Building to building
ground to building
building to ground
building to item on the ground
ground to raised area like the top of a shipping container or truck

but not:
Building to a different point on the same level of the same building
ground to ground
anything that would cause the model to pass through an obstacle or gap it could not otherwise fit through
anywhere you couldn't physically place the model
anywhere you can't draw a clear LoS to.

Batclaw is one of the most difficult rules. I expect a long errata in the near future.

Two things are important:
The starting and ending surfaces must be different; no ground to ground and no same building.

Also, at least one of the surfaces must be 10cm off the ground.

On a separate note, two new websites:
http://hero-builder.net For crew building

http://www.knightmodels.com As the new storefront. Lots of changes here.

Thanks, sounds like we got the batclaw rules mostly right.

 drazz wrote:
Also, at least one of the surfaces must be 10cm off the ground.

From what was officially answered on Facebook that isn't entirely accurate, but that is why there needs to be some better defining and examples to it. This discussion happened a couple months back on Facebook. It is a bit muddled as everyone chimes in and goes back and forth... but it actually helps gain a better understanding of it.

The distinction with batclaw is defined with either "gap" or "elevation". You can either go up or down 10cm OR across a GAP that is a minimum of 10cm (gap is defined as 2 objects with edges). If you are crossing a "gap" that is 10cm or more, you can use the batclaw. The ground, with no edges or ledges can never be one of those "gap" moves, it can only be the start (or end of an "elevation" move. Being on top of boxes, crates, buildings, etc (things with an edge) is what is required to do a "gap" move. There doesn't seem to be any indication of a minimum of maximum height for these, however most people are in agreement 2cm should be the minimum.

- You could batclaw from the top of the roof to another roof, even if the surface is only 7cm off the ground, providing the roof gap you are moving is over 10cm.
- You could batclaw from the top of a 8cm building to a box on the ground, providing the gap is over 10cm.
- You could NOT batclaw from the top of building to the ground, even if the building is 10cm but you could batclaw to a 2cm box or curb.


Legal - It is over a gap of 10cm, between two different objects that have edges. (objective marker is used to mark end movement location)


Not Legal - Although over 10cm, the ground with no edges or ledges does not meet the 'gap' requirement. (objective marker is used to mark end movement location)

(The second example is legal if the elevation of the ending point is more that 10cm high.)

But, I believe you are right about the gap being ok even if the elevation is less than 10cm on the first example.

 drazz wrote:
The second example is legal if the elevation of the ending point is more that 10cm high.

That would be correct yes, if it wasn't 7.5cm and was instead 10cm high then moving from the ground to it is legal but not the other way around (from object to flat ground). Part of it is functionality as well as balance, otherwise, you could move to a box/curb and then traverse 10cm to flat ground. Also because if there isn't an edge, what is the batclaw actually connecting with? Once you define and understand the gap, different play areas then it is pretty simple. The only 'non-defined piece' is how high an object must be to be considered a minimum height for edge.. some say 1cm while most say 2cm. My opinion is 2cm is about right.

So you're saying you can't Batclaw from a building to the ground? I would say that would be fine, as the elevation of most buildings is more than 10cm and I'm not seeing where the 'edge' thing comes into it.

I guess if that is the case then it'll just become one of those things that I house-rule, as it makes sense and doesn't seem to have caused in any imbalance in the several dozen games where I've played it like that.

Honestly if I were rewording the rule I'd just say that it has to be a different surface that you can draw a straigh line to, not worry about minimum distances or 'edges' or anything. As I say, that's how I've inadvertently been playing it and doing it that way there's never been any confusion.

The other easy solution to the 'can't batclaw down' issue would be to make the Bat-capes work as more than a parachute, allowing a glide movement of some kind rather than just a damageless straigh drop.

So in the first example you can move from box to box that are just 2cms off the ground?

 durecellrabbit wrote:
So in the first example you can move from box to box that are just 2cms off the ground?

Yes, as long as they both have edges and the gap between the boxes is a minimum of 10cm.

Hi guys,

I have a quick question around the affiliates for the different characters and crews etc. I've tried searching for my answer to no avail. Also i'm at work so cant get on to a lot of the sites...

Anyway, I see on the cards that it lists who the affiliate with. Do we then presume that any factions not listed there are not able to be joined?

Thanks

So I might have just jumped into this game.

@ adzila: Yep, you may normally only join crews that are listed on the cards.

There are, however, a couple of exceptions:
If a model has 'Affinity: Character', they may be taken as a Free Agent in a crew with that character. For example, Talia with Batman, or Harley with Ivy.

If a model has Affiliate: Unknown, it may be taken in any crew, except any that it's card lists as Hatred (for example, Catwoman is Affiliate: Unknown, but Hates Joker so can't be used with him)

@Carlos: Shiny! I see Bats, Robin, Nightwing and Catwoman, Penguin starter, Deathstroke, Deadshot, what are the other two (second from left top, bottom right)?

Yeah lots of Shiny.

Got two different bats (City and Arkham Knight), Robin, Nightwing, Catwoman, Deathstroke, Deadshot and Arrow. and Penguin Starter.

I bought tokens from counterattackbases and they've been very useful so far so I thought I'd do a mini review.

The token are nice solid pieces although I've not used them enough to check wear and tear and are easy to read while being a not too large size. The templates are really nice and I was worried about getting a non clear coloured one but I ended up getting red and you can still see models underneath easily. They're a massive help in-game, keeping track of the things we didn't have enough counter for was hard enough.

I found I didn't get enough of the action counters so I'm going to get some more but another player used those tiny dice and they seem a good alternative.

I always go for using dice as AC, it just speeds things up so much. Rather than having to worry about dice and counters, you just pick up the dice directly from the card, roll and put them back on the other half of the card when you're done. It does mean you need more dice, but frankly a single dice cube from GW or similar should cover you for a whole crew and then some.

Keep a few extra handy for the likes of Combo and such, and it really does speed things up.

Didn't think of doing that, it sounds efficient. It was just one dice per stat recording the number of counters then switching to bigger dice for rolls.

Thought I'd share these awesome papercraft buildings I found when digging around for terrain for a demo game tonight. Under Big Buildings there's a very Gotham-suitable Gothic building, and there's also plenty of more modern buildings, shipping crates, vehicles and scatter terrain on the site.

If you need to cheaply fill out a BMG board, then this will do the trick in a pinch:
http://www.modelpaperworld.com/en/4-modern

And if anyone's wondering about how it takes metal minis, I was able to place Batman and Origins Bane on the roof of one of the large buildings printed on normal printer paper and it held them, Print it on card and assemble it properly and they should more than stand up to the rigours of gaming.

Good find!

Indeed!

Paradigm: what weight paper did you use?

For the trial run I just printed on whatever normal printer paper is. Since the designs are nice, though, I plan when I can to print some on cardstock in full colour, as they really are nicely sized buildings and look much better than the cardboard boxes I've been using so far!

Another option is to print onto full-page sticky label paper, then stick it down onto 5mm foam card (or use normal paper and get a can of spray adhesive).

Goodbye budget... hello Marvel!

This turned up on the KM Facebook page, cheers to Mlaw for copying over to Dakka:


Very, very exciting.

I finished painting Two Face today. I started painting him months ago but he's sat on the shelf half done for a long while.

That is, until I decide I need to go back and do some more work on him.

Who here has experence playing with Batman, Penguin and Bane Crews?

Was wondering what you thought of each and what your prefered lists were.

Covered Bane for you already, but for Batman, here's what I got:

- Know your Batmen, and pick the right one for the job. There's a good video on youtube by Flashback Generations that covers the strengths and weaknesses of each, and Cheaphammer has a good head-to-head, but it breaks down like this: If you want a Brawler, you want either Arkham Knight (the most expensive, but with Master Fighter he's the best fighter of the lot, and also has all the toys) or Miller Bat as he's built for getting up close and personal with good damage output and Endurance and you're not paying for toys that a brawler isn't going to use. If you want to have a Batman that is more versatile, take either AC or AO, both are competent fighters but also have the RC batarangs and vision perks for range, and AC has counterattack while AO has the Remote Claw and Shock Gloves. Dark Knight Batman is the self-sufficient one, able to perform his own arrests and with Stealth and high movement to make use of Sneak Attack more reliably. He's a tad squisher than the others, though.

- Know your backup. In an all-hero team like you mentioned you're looking at, everyone needs a role and they need to stick to it. Batman has loads of options for the various roles, so I won't go into them all here, but basically, for damage output you want someone like Nightwing, Green Arrow or AK Robin, for objective grabbing mobility try AC Robin or Batgirl, and for fighting in support of Batman go for someone like Damien or Canary, both of which have ways of shutting down the enemy for your heavy hitters to give them a beating (Damien with his Technique ability, Canary with the Canary Cry) but can't stand up on their own.

- Play the points game. It can be tempting with a hero team to beat people up all day every day, but if the person you're beating up is just a Henchmen and they're not scoring points themselves, then no matter how easy it would be to KO them in a round you'll often be better off grabbing an objective. If you've got a lot of Batclaws, use that to your advantage, keep on the move and don't get bogged down in fights if they aren't earning you points. On the other hand, if you can get the drop on and reliably KO a Free Agent, Sidekick or even Leader then take the shot, as there's plenty of points on offer from those models.

- Don't be overconfident. Yes, you're playing with some very powerful characters, but you aren't bulletproof, or even stab-proof! While it might be awesome to send Batman and Robin heroically swinging into action against Titaned-up Bane, the end result is going to be Bat-paste on the floor and half a dozen VPs handed to your opponent. Similarly, you might think Nightwing's dodge ability can keep him safe from that Assault Rifle, but even one fluffed role and he's pretty much lost half his health.


Hope that's of some help!

It helps thank your which lists do you personally have the most fun with? Doesn't just have to be the factions I mentioned,

I try and mix it up as much as possible, but I do enjoy:

Batman (AO), Robin (AC) and Nightwing at 300 (well, 301) Rep, or Batman, or if I want a few more bodies Batman, Nightwing, Agent Ron, Agent O'Connel, SWAT Bravo. Bit shootier, and has more objective-grabbing presence. There are a couple more I wanr or try but have't got to yet:
Batman (Miller), Nightwing, Red Hood (AC), Robin (AC), or Nightwing, Batgirl, Robin (AC), Huntress and Canary if Batman is on holiday/has just been Baned...

For Bane, I often go with Bane (Origins), Deathstroke (Origins), McGregor and Dallas from the Bane starter. If escalating to 350 rep, I'd swap Dallas and McGregor out for TNT and Venom Thug.

I also have good fun with the League of Shadows, Ra's as leader, and then a mix of ninjas from his set and the Mercs from Bane's.

I'm looking at the online list builder, what's the standard rep/funding level ?

Seems like 300/$1000 and 350/$1500 are the standards, though I'd start at 200. The 350 has been the KM "official" tournament points, likely because the Watchmen add up to exactly 350.

(slightly shameless plug)

I'm also of the mind that the number of models in a band for a completive (at least tournament level) game is about 7. Looking at the tournament lists from UK, Spain, and Canada posted at KM's forum, the smallest was 5, the largest was 10 and the average was 7. You can see some of my thoughts based on the lists here:
http://skirmishwargaming.com/batman-miniature-game-tournament-meta-review/#.VkDBEtCs3Zc