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Looked like new models at first glance but that simply appears to be a heavily converted army upon closer inspection.

Yeah they're all kitbashes.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah they're all kitbashes.

The Empire zombies even featured in a White Dwarf several years back

From what I understand there's a big difference between releasing multi-sprue plastic kits and releasing single metal models in terms of cost... Comparing "number of releases" seems pretty pointless in that context.

I don't know how anyone could call Zerkova and her 2 guards one model instead of 3 -- since they could just be sold as 3 different models. In the same way, if a model kit can be built 2 significantly different ways, it counts as 2 models, in my book.

Every model that's a reasonably different pose counts as a different model (including the two guards); for the purposes of simplicity, a box of 10 multipart plastic models that has a kazillion builds, I'd generally just call 10 models -- though not always, as there are some kits where all 10 virtually look identical. Whether soldier is holding a gun is facing forward or in the air would probably be considered the same model by most people, but a warrior with a two-handed polearm is not the same as a warrior with a gladius and shield, which is not the same as a warrior with two one-handed hammers.

The litmus test should be, if you show two finished models to someone who isn't familiar with the kit, would they say, "yeah, that's the same model", or, "no, those are different".

So...Stormcast have roughly five models total, then?

(I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I couldn't resist!)

Oh yeah, don't forget Forge World models. FW is GW, after all

The limited edition centurion and the techmarines were sweet. I think Eidolon was August, too, the White Scars stuff, DA parts. The ginormous Tau Titan, if you count it as "released" (since it was actually being sold on a limited basis).

Incidentally, in 2015, Games Workshop built two completely new factions (40k AdMech and Stormcast Eternals), totally reboot another faction (Harlequins; every old model scrapped), and a couple of brand new terrain themes in complete/modular sets. I don't think anyone else comes close to doing that. I mean, sure you can say, "they're all ugly and expensive and I don't like them", but not everyone feels that way, obviously

 Talys wrote:
Oh yeah, don't forget Forge World models. FW is GW, after all

The limited edition centurion and the techmarines were sweet. I think Eidolon was August, too, the White Scars stuff, DA parts. The ginormous Tau Titan, if you count it as "released" (since it was actually being sold on a limited basis).

Incidentally, in 2015, Games Workshop built two completely new factions (40k AdMech and Stormcast Eternals), totally reboot another faction (Harlequins; every old model scrapped), and a couple of brand new terrain themes in complete/modular sets. I don't think anyone else comes close to doing that. I mean, sure you can say, "they're all ugly and expensive and I don't like them", but not everyone feels that way, obviously

Hasn't it been shown that a lot of the AoS terrain first appeared back in 2013 in the Triumph and Treachery book? Not to nitpick but I think it's important to remember that often there is a significant amount of time between when the new kits are created and when they're released. GW is big enough that they can afford to have stocks of new kits sitting in a warehouse waiting for a release slot and that gives them a lot more options in regards to how much gets released and when compared to smaller companies that can't afford to invest in making a new kit just to sit on it for 2 years before putting it up for sale.

Some of it has. I believe the Dragonfate Dais and Realmgates were in there.

The rest of it had never been seen before the WD leaks.

Prestor Jon wrote:

 Talys wrote:
Oh yeah, don't forget Forge World models. FW is GW, after all

The limited edition centurion and the techmarines were sweet. I think Eidolon was August, too, the White Scars stuff, DA parts. The ginormous Tau Titan, if you count it as "released" (since it was actually being sold on a limited basis).

Incidentally, in 2015, Games Workshop built two completely new factions (40k AdMech and Stormcast Eternals), totally reboot another faction (Harlequins; every old model scrapped), and a couple of brand new terrain themes in complete/modular sets. I don't think anyone else comes close to doing that. I mean, sure you can say, "they're all ugly and expensive and I don't like them", but not everyone feels that way, obviously

Hasn't it been shown that a lot of the AoS terrain first appeared back in 2013 in the Triumph and Treachery book? Not to nitpick but I think it's important to remember that often there is a significant amount of time between when the new kits are created and when they're released. GW is big enough that they can afford to have stocks of new kits sitting in a warehouse waiting for a release slot and that gives them a lot more options in regards to how much gets released and when compared to smaller companies that can't afford to invest in making a new kit just to sit on it for 2 years before putting it up for sale.

The Khorne fortress is definitely new, as Kan said. Although the designs for a couple of the others have been around for a while, that doesn't necessarily mean they've had the quantity of models required for retail sales, they could just have used a painted prototype in Triumph and Treachery (it wouldn't be the first time they've done this).

 -Shrike- wrote:

Prestor Jon wrote:

 Talys wrote:
Oh yeah, don't forget Forge World models. FW is GW, after all

The limited edition centurion and the techmarines were sweet. I think Eidolon was August, too, the White Scars stuff, DA parts. The ginormous Tau Titan, if you count it as "released" (since it was actually being sold on a limited basis).

Incidentally, in 2015, Games Workshop built two completely new factions (40k AdMech and Stormcast Eternals), totally reboot another faction (Harlequins; every old model scrapped), and a couple of brand new terrain themes in complete/modular sets. I don't think anyone else comes close to doing that. I mean, sure you can say, "they're all ugly and expensive and I don't like them", but not everyone feels that way, obviously

Hasn't it been shown that a lot of the AoS terrain first appeared back in 2013 in the Triumph and Treachery book? Not to nitpick but I think it's important to remember that often there is a significant amount of time between when the new kits are created and when they're released. GW is big enough that they can afford to have stocks of new kits sitting in a warehouse waiting for a release slot and that gives them a lot more options in regards to how much gets released and when compared to smaller companies that can't afford to invest in making a new kit just to sit on it for 2 years before putting it up for sale.

The Khorne fortress is definitely new, as Kan said. Although the designs for a couple of the others have been around for a while, that doesn't necessarily mean they've had the quantity of models required for retail sales, they could just have used a painted prototype in Triumph and Treachery (it wouldn't be the first time they've done this).

Ok. My point was that GW is big enough to invest in creating new kits and factions and then delay recouping the cost by putting off the release date to a time further down the road. It was in response to the claim that GW built two completely new factions in 2015. GW didn't do all the work in 2015 it clearly started years before 2015. GW has the resources to play around with release dates in ways that smaller companies can't. It's a fact that struck me as being pertinent to the sudden discussion in this thread of comparing the release schedules and content of different companies.

Stormcast and Skitarii/AdMech were all CAD sculpts and copyright 2014.

I don't think their lead times are anywhere near as long as people think they are these days.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Stormcast and Skitarii/AdMech were all CAD sculpts and copyright 2014.

I don't think their lead times are anywhere near as long as people think they are these days.

The date on the sprues is when the finished plastic sprues comes out of the shiny new moulds.

Designing a complete range like Stormcast and getting them ready for that particular moment, from the first concept art and sketches, to CAD-designs, to resin/3D-print masters, tooling the moulds, etc.., etc.. takes a while too.

Wonderwolf wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Stormcast and Skitarii/AdMech were all CAD sculpts and copyright 2014.

I don't think their lead times are anywhere near as long as people think they are these days.

The date on the sprues is when the finished plastic sprues comes out of the shiny new moulds.

Designing a complete range like Stormcast and getting them ready for that particular moment, from the first concept art and sketches, to CAD-designs, to resin/3D-print masters, tooling the moulds, etc.., etc.. takes a while too.

You're explaining something that nobody really is refuting.

The point of mentioning the copyright dates is that if a company like Corvus Belli can do a new unit in the realm of 4-5 months, going from dossier to rendered in CAD in that timeframe--what can a big company like GW do?

An example of this is the Kosuil Pioneer that got revealed at GenCon for the Tohaa faction of Infinity. They started design work in the spring for this unit, and the first model from the unit comes out next month.

With CAD in the mix, the time from concept to actualized model is shortened significantly. That's why I even bothered to refer to the copyright date, as while we saw the releases this year how much of it was realistically them getting a reasonable supply chain in place?

When referring to GW vs CB though, we have to take into consideration some other things--most of which have to deal with the logistics of maintaining and running a faaaaaaaaaaaar larger company than CB is, with dedicated shops and keeping their production from doing what CB's does and bottlenecking hard with a popular release.

Heck, even taking that into consideration for a month or two Skitarii Rangers/Vanguard kits were basically sold out and needed an entirely new production run!

I am sure GW could do it very fast, if they wanted.

But by all accounts, they don't. Hell, they have novels commissioned by BL to tie into a release with the author clearly already in on the miniatures they are writing about.

Imperial Knight 2.0 was probably an example of the fast-track. Roughly a year to push out an upgrade-version to a big seller, from having sales data on the first Knight to the second version being in the shop. On the other hand, it wasn't a full new model.

Very extreme examples (Eldar Jetbike) seem to be in development hell for nearly a decade. Probably not a representative example, but still. They could turn out a miniature from concept art in a month, but with all their secrecy, they also can give themselves a comfortable 1 or 2-year lead. So why not do it?

Any info in the sigmar codex if they will have named characters? With different stats and or abilities?

I hate how black knights and grave guard look on round bases.

Well, I picked up my Prosecutors and the winged hero kit (Azyros/Venator builds) today. Man, the models are really nice. For anyone who's worked with feathers before, the eagle is awesomely tooled, deep, cupped grooves for each feather and a really nice shape that lends itself to good results with airbrush/glaze. The S-shaped curve that holds the model up is a marvel of HIPS wizardry too. It's worth noting that if you want a non-flying model, this particular one is very easy to detach from its flying ribbon.

Looking at the close-ups of Velixor and Heraldor (or however you spell them), I don't really like Heraldor at all. He seems like a bit of a crappy Relictor. Maybe my opinion will change when I see the physical model, but the banner just isn't of the sort that I like. Velixor looks to be a very nice model -- but a trumpeter really isn't my thing, so I will probably put this one off until I want to field one, or some time I can get fat 35% off discount.

Also, in this week's WD, the Reader's Model of the week is a black Stormcast that just rocks. Big props for that painter!

I'm not wrong. He's putting it in his eye.

It is clearly not an instrument but a scope

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
It is clearly not an instrument but a scope

A Smelloscope?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Spoiler:

I'm not wrong. He's putting it in his eye.

LOL. Good one

In the theme of "saving the best for last", they should have stopped with the Prosecutors and winged heroes. I forgot to mention, looking at the banner dude (Bannereror!), the shoulderpad looks absolutely humongous. Not as bad as the PP dude that looks like his head is between a vice, but Vexillor looks like he can't scratch his nose with his left hand

Oh well, one way to prevent your troops from picking their noses I guess.

The banner bearer looks to be wearing Retributor armour.

Did a review of the new Stormcast Eternals book; http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/663569.page

MongooseMatt wrote:
Did a review of the new Stormcast Eternals book; http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/663569.page

Slipped in the rules for the musician and battle standard too... Nice...

Damn. My Liberator Prime with the raised hammer really needs some electric crackles, looks sweet on that cover.

Here is a way you can do that Binabik.

You want to go to your local "Garden Center" type of place and look for "Florist Wire". It is usually used to wire together flower displays .
Here are some examples of things I did with it.

Oh, I know. I did something like right after I saw that awesome Jain Zar in WD some time (a decade?!) ago*. But thank you all the same.

*Only this time I can do OSL, NMM and will have dayglow colours if everything goes right. And much thinner wire. About 0,1 mm gauge, it'll be awesome for this.

 Talys wrote:
I don't know how anyone could call Zerkova and her 2 guards one model instead of 3 -- since they could just be sold as 3 different models. In the same way, if a model kit can be built 2 significantly different ways, it counts as 2 models, in my book.

Using that logic, each Space Marine Tactical squad box contains 1000+ of models, as the model kit can be built in 1000's of ways which are all distinctly different... magnitudes more if you leverage all the pouches and grenades... magnitudes more if you include incomplete and/or incorrectly assembled models (i.e. shoulder pads left off, or put on sideways). This must be how GW Accounting set their prices... using Citadel Fine-Math, we are the market leaders for price per model. Each finely detailed multi-part box contains the components for over 1000 models* (Citadel Fine-Print: *1000+ modelling combinations possible. Box contains parts to build 10 or less complete figures of customer's choice. Model combinations are only limited by the customer's imagination.)

 keezus wrote:

 Talys wrote:
I don't know how anyone could call Zerkova and her 2 guards one model instead of 3 -- since they could just be sold as 3 different models. In the same way, if a model kit can be built 2 significantly different ways, it counts as 2 models, in my book.

Using that logic, each Space Marine Tactical squad box contains 1000+ of models, as the model kit can be built in 1000's of ways which are all distinctly different... magnitudes more if you leverage all the pouches and grenades... magnitudes more if you include incomplete and/or incorrectly assembled models (i.e. shoulder pads left off, or put on sideways). This must be how GW Accounting set their prices... using Citadel Fine-Math, we are the market leaders for price per model. Each finely detailed multi-part box contains the components for over 1000 models* (Citadel Fine-Print: *1000+ modelling combinations possible. Box contains parts to build 10 or less complete figures of customer's choice. Model combinations are only limited by the customer's imagination.)

If you read the rest of that same post, I said a box of 10 should just be considered 10 models, for simplicity's sake, in most cases (in some, there may be highly repetitive, essentially snapfits). Also, I said that that different but very similar poses are essentially the same model (like rotating a gun so that it's facing up or down, or a sword so that it's vertical or horizontal); but that pistol and dagger vs two handed sword vs sniper rifle would be considered a different models in my book, especially if it's not just a simple weapon swap.

Obviously, a benefit for some people of modular kits like GW and Victoria or the Eisenkern troops are that you have more flexibility when building your model to give you a wider variety of possible finished products. But it's not fair to the sculptors and consider Zerkova or a box of BA Tacticals and say, "each box counts as one sculpted model".

Likewise, a downside for some people of modular kits is that a single model can take hours to choose and prepare, versus a single piece model, which can be glued to a base and used to play right away. If a box of 3 comes with 2 identical guards and 1 unique hero, I'd call it 2 distinct sculpts. But if the two guards are noticeably different (even if similar) I'd call it 3 distinct sculpts.