Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello Dakka Dakka,

So I have been playing Warhammer 40k primarily for around 2 years now, and whilst I am enjoying it thoroughly, needless to say the costs of the models etc can be off putting at times.

I was watching youtube battle reports when I stumbled across the game "Infinity" and out of curiosity watched a battle report, had no clue what was going on but.

I really liked the look of the models and scenery etc.

So I have a few questions which hopefully you Infinity experts can help with.

1. At its core, What is "Infinity", how does it play in comparison to 40k, and would a 40k player enjoy the game (big sci fi fan).

2. In terms of the quality of the models compared to that of Games Workshop, how do they compare?.

3. How does army balance work and are the factions/races all relatively balanced or do any certain armies shine?

4. I have noticed some starter sets for the factions up on online stores, are these starter sets enough to begin playing and learning the game?.

5. Anything else needed to be purchased to begin the game?.

And any other helpful information you can think of to someone, who has never played or looked into the game.

Thank you,

1. It's a lot more complex. Expect to refer to the rulebooks/PDFs constantly for the first several games.

2. They're all metal models, sculpt wise it depends on the age and how you feel about the models themselves. Comparisons are subjective--by and large they are nice models though, technique-wise, but a large number of them turn groups of fans off via the execution.

3. This is really difficult to say because to an extent it comes down to the mission and things of that nature. An army heavy on Specialists is going to do far better in objective play than an army built for killing.

4. Which factions were you looking at?

5. You don't even really need to purchase the rulebook as it got FAQ'd fairly early on. The main draw for purchasing it and the forthcoming Human Sphere(N3 edition) is the "Core Book"(which really should have been labeled "Lore"...)

Well tbh, I know nothing about any of the factions or units.

However I saw a starter set called Operation icestorm.

So I guess, I could start by looking at the two armies included with the box.

Shinzra wrote:
Well tbh, I know nothing about any of the factions or units.

However I saw a starter set called Operation icestorm.

So I guess, I could start by looking at the two armies included with the box.

So, Operation: Icestorm is best compared to the Dark Vengeance box--it gives you two different armies to work with.

PanOceania(the blue painted models) are a conglomerate faction which came into being after a huge financial crisis on Earth caused the major superpowers of today(US and Europe) to basically get 'bought out' by Australia, New Zealand, Africa, and India. PanOceania is predominantly NeoChristian and includes what are called the "Military Orders" consisting of different Knight hoods. PanOceania is primarily, to an extent, "run" by the megacorporations of the faction.
PanOceania would see you with an interesting mix of American, European, Australian, African, and Indian units/names.

The Nomads are best described as space faring crazies. They consist of three different "motherships"; Bakunin, Corregidor, and Tunguska. Tunguska is the money, Corregidor is the muscle, and Bakunin is referred to as "the soul"(but IMO they're really just the crazies).

Factions in Infinity consist of multiple subfactions referred to as "Sectorials". Sectorials forego the ability to take anything from the other Sectorials(barring the shared items like Engineers, Doctors, and Remotes) in exchange for the ability to take a large number of things specific to their Sectorial. You can forego Sectorials and instead play "Vanilla", which gives you a reduced Availability for items that are considered signature to Sectorials and removes your ability to field what are called "Link Teams"(we won't get into that as Human Sphere N3 is going to be reworking those entirely).

For PanOceania, you currently have the following Sectorial options:
Neoterran Capitalene Army(NCA)--This is the "highest tech" Sectorial of a high tech faction. Their signature troopers are the Neoterran Bolts and the Neoterran Auxilia, but they can still field 5 Fusiliers.
Aconticemento Shock Army(ASA)--This is your "jungle fighter" Sectorial. They can't take Fusiliers but they can take a relatively large amount of Aerial Deployment--which is otherwise not present in PanOceania.
Military Orders(MO)--A good mix of both of the other two Sectorials. These are all Knights, all the time--barring a token Link Team of Fusiliers.

For Nomads, you currently have the following Sectorial options:
Corregidor(CJC)--These guys have damn near everything. I, personally, advise against them unless you plan on ignoring any of the things in the Corregidor Jurisdictional box and any blister packs that don't look like roidraging maniacs.
Bakunin(BJC)--A fairly Hacker heavy Sectorial with lots of craziness. I haven't looked enough into them to say one way or the other and give you advice on this.

Now, Operation Icestorm gives you the following models:
PanOceania gets 3x Fusiliers with Combi Rifles(basic infantry for Vanilla, NCA, and MO), a Nisse with MULTI Sniper Rifle(a "sneak peek" of an upcoming Sectorial, the Svalarheima mountainy troops), an ORC Trooper with MULTI Rifle(Heavy Infantry who are currently speculated as being part of the same Sectorial as the Nisse), an Akali Sikh Commando(a drop trooper that is part of the ASA), Father-Knight(a Heavy Infantry character who can be a Specialist/Hacker--part of the Military Orders and currently only available in the Icestorm set)

Nomad gets you 3x Alguaciles with Combi Rifles(basic infantry for Vanilla and CJC), a Grenzer with MULTI Sniper Rifle("sneak peek" of the Tunguska Sectorial), Mobile Brigada with MULTI Rifle+Light Flamethrower(Heavy Infantry for CJC--there's a 4 model boxed set due out "soon" which will give you more options as well. When a weapon is "X+Y" it means it operates similar to a combi weapon from 40k; two guns strapped together. When a weapon is "X, Y" it means it's two different weapon profiles that have to be chosen from), a Spektr(another Tunguska sneak peek--a Thermo-Optic Camouflaging Infiltrator--think of the Predator without the skull taking), and a Reverend-Healer(same as the Father-Knight, she's only available in this set currently--she fills a similar role and is part of the BJC).

If you want to double up on any of those particular factions/loadouts you can buy the individual starters from them separately as well--you just would not get the Reverend-Healer for the Nomad half or the Father-Knight for the PanOceanian half.

Infinity, at it's core, is mission based small scale skirmish warfare. Usually between what are supposed to be considered special operations units. Games are tailored about securing and denying objectives from the other player, not necessarily about killing every, or in some cases, any thing.

Most army lists are sub-20 models. More likely in the 10-14 model range depending on your preferences.

As Kanluwen pointed out, it is a fairly deep game set, but once you pick up the base mechanics of Order Pool, Order ependitures, and ARO (automatic reaction Order), it's all about learning the special rules for model profiles.

Most faction starter boxes run 100-140 points or so. Usually starter games are in the 120 point mark for Escalation leagues, going up to the standard 300 point Tournament level.

Really, all factions have a full gamut of model profiles that allow them to be played competitively. No one faction stands out. It all depends on what you like the look of, and playstyle preferences.

There are vanilla (main) factions, and sectorials which are themed lists for each faction. Sectorials allow use of additional special rules for Linked teams of models, but usually reduce the types of troops available from the Vanilla force listing.

Any other questions? We'd love to help out.

Oh.. also, Terrain. Infinity us usually played on a much denser board than traditional tabletop like 40K and WarmaHordes. You need plenty of sight blockers an buildings to break up lines of fire, or else long range weapons dominate the game. There is usually a god mix of short and long range areas designed to give you some choices when either deploying or taking the initiative.

Ok so would you recommend the starter set even for 1 person, maybe to use the other army as painting practice etc?.

Or is it more cost efficient to just buy the faction you wish to play starter box?.

Thank you

The model count is low enough that you could realistically build up both the Pan-O and the Nomads from that box, and still be in for less than half of a single 40k army.

Shinzra wrote:
Ok so would you recommend the starter set even for 1 person, maybe to use the other army as painting practice etc?.

Or is it more cost efficient to just buy the faction you wish to play starter box?.

Thank you

Do you have anyone else to play with yet?

If so--split the cost of the Icestorm set and have each person pick a blister and a single boxed set that goes with the faction they like the look of.
I would highly suggest that the boxed set be the same as whatever the 3x infantry are in Icestorm(Alguaciles for Nomads and Fusiliers for PanOceania) and the blister be something that isn't already present(I would suggest the Intruder with HMG for Nomads and the Akalis Sikh with Spitfire for PanOceania).

Well, my friend is considering starting the game also, not to sure yet.

I need to have a look more at the model range for the armies.

I have a question regarding the terrain used in infinity, I have seen the "cardboard" based terrain, can you also use typical 40k terrain such as ruins and buildings for infinity games?.

Sure.

Be aware that the cardboard terrain that comes with both Icestorm and the forthcoming USAriadna boxed sets? It's stable--but you're meant to take the empty boxes from the model to "reinforce" it. It holds up pretty damn well.

In terms of the armies, I quite like the look of Aleph models.

How are Aleph in game?.

Advantages?, Disadvantages?

A general army overview would be awesome (if anyone has experience with them).

Thank you

What in particular do you like from ALEPH?

ALEPH are a very Order-intensive army, where your models are going to be very expensive and every piece will matter(unless you're fielding Netrods which are just there to generate Orders for cheap).

Aleph are an elite army. You'll have a few very powerful models backed up by some really average models or even, as Kan said, outright order generators.

There's other ways to play them of course, but they are an elite army at heart.

Well I dont know any of the rules yet but I like the look of the models and the idea of a elite army based around badass small units


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The other army I liked the look of model wise was some pan knights though I have no information on them.

Shinzra wrote:
Well I dont know any of the rules yet but I like the look of the models and the idea of a elite army based around badass small units


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The other army I liked the look of model wise was some pan knights though I have no information on them.

The game in it's most basic form that you need to be aware of:
1. You get one order per model. (Models are divided into groups of at most 10)
2. During your active turn you can spend these orders on ANY model, any number of times until your orders are all spent. (As long as the orders come from the same combat group)
3. During your inactive turn, you get mini-orders when your troops spot enemy activity where you can shoot back or dodge out of the way.
4. You only get cover for terrain that the model is physically touching. NO area terrain. NO intervening terrain.

So with that said, usually you won't find people recommending you to get only elite troops that are super-expensive, because they won't get to do much. Then you try it just for fun and realise that it's actually a valid strategy even if it's not the best strategy. Aleph have these dirt-cheap "Netrods" for a reason. Basically antennas that give you orders.

Military Orders is a Pan-O throw-back to the Teuton Knights, etc. Sophisticated powered armour backed up with a religious zeal. Kind of like Space Marines, except that Yu Jing has snatched up the best deals on powered armour so the Bald Religious Knights In Space will have to make do with just second-best. (Yu Jing are the chinese-dominated descendants of the Asian powers, they aren't the settings bad guys because that's what the Bao troops told us and the Bao troops are truly the people's heroes!). Military Orders tend to focus more on close combat, but with that said they come from Pan-O who are possibly the most gun-crazy faction in the game (i.e. they tend to have the most cost-efficient ballistics skill).

Regarding model quality: you will be surprised in a positive way when you pick them up. Just keep in mind that the models are made to look good in the artist's eyes. You will find that the newer models have weapons scaled for the model's size, so a combi rifle isn't the same size for all Fusiliers, for example. You may also notice that some figures wasn't quite modelled taking the armour into account - they look good, but then you mentally subtract an inch of armour and ye godes what's wrong with their stomachs!?
All in all, though, similar quality level to GW, better proportions than GW, no plastic and limited/no poseability.

P.s. Your question 5: get terrain. Lots of terrain. You're coming from 40K so you'll find that GW's area terrain style is a bit awkward and you'll probably need a lot of scatter terrain. The problem with GW terrain is that it's a bit difficult to tell where the wall begins and the rubble ends for cover purposes. (Warsenal, Bandua, Antenocitis, Custom Meeple etc provide good terrain, you will also find that some of it will mesh good with 40k since it's fairly generic sci-fi most of the time)

Shinzra wrote:
In terms of the armies, I quite like the look of Aleph models.

How are Aleph in game?.

Advantages?, Disadvantages?

A general army overview would be awesome (if anyone has experience with them).

Thank you

What I will say is that if you play Aleph you can't half-arse it. They have a lot of (initially quite tricky) special rules which you will need to learn to help get the most out of the army. But, some of those elements (like with some of the Combined army rules) your opponents will fear because of it.

They can be massively effective (I regularly get thrashed by an Aleph player) but as Kan has pointed out they are expensive in points, if you lose a few units then you can easily find yourself running out of orders and losing the game very quickly.

Very characterful minis though with quite evocative background - as a Manga fan, there is a lot of 'Ghost in the Shell' influence in there; I like them!

Yh like I say, I'm basing my view mostly from looks perspective, but I like the look of the model range and the Greek style.

Is there any changes planned to the rules which would effect any of the armies currently or in the near future which could deter a potential buyer/new player?

Basing your purchases on aesthetic is a perfectly valid way to buy Infinity models. That game is really well balanced. You can generally buy stuff you like the look of and make a coherent list out of it, as long as you stick to the concept of order givers and takers. Aleph emphasises this - you'll want some cheaper units to provide orders for the bigger, killier units.

Aleph is basically a steamroller. The cheap units are the engine, and the expensive units are the big, mashy roller. The roller is hard to beat in a head on fight, the weakness is the engine, the weaker units driving the roller. You can go for all expensive units, but you'll find your engine is ill-equipped to move it along.

Is the Aleph starter set a good purchase to start with?, there is also a Aleph Steel Phalanx box set, is that a starter set also or?

Shinzra wrote:
Is the Aleph starter set a good purchase to start with?, there is also a Aleph Steel Phalanx box set, is that a starter set also or?

Yes and yes. Aleph Steel phalanx Sectoral (or ASS as people abbreviate it) is Aleph's only sub-faction. All of the units you can find in their box can be used with vanilla Aleph.

 Mahtamori wrote:

Shinzra wrote:
Is the Aleph starter set a good purchase to start with?, there is also a Aleph Steel Phalanx box set, is that a starter set also or?

Yes and yes. Aleph Steel phalanx Sectoral (or ASS as people abbreviate it) is Aleph's only sub-faction. All of the units you can find in their box can be used with vanilla Aleph.

ASS is the correct acronym. Assault Sub-Section. Steel Phalanx is the name of the sectorial, but it represents the ASS. The Vedic sectorial they keep starting and stopping is the OSS, Operations Sub-Section.

Ok so would the starter Aleph pack be a good start for aleph, are the models it contains useful or good?

Yep, definitely a good place to start!

The only slight hesitation I would add is that the Dakini Tacbots are some of the hardest miniatures to assemble in the range. So, if you're not an experienced modeller (perhaps have no experience of working with metal) then you could just start with some myrmidons and then some specialist weapon troopers.

If you want more suggestions on where to start out and how to follow on from that kit, this is a pretty good article

http://www.data-sphere.net/starting-aleph/

PS - as someone who plays Aleph all the time, I find the Myrmidons to be a real PITA to play against - they're expensive, but the -6 to hit all the time (unless you use template weapons or MSV2) makes them very tricky to engage.

I'll second the Myrmidons. One of my regular opponents runs Greek heavy Aleph, though not ASS. Myrmidons are a right pain in the ass, and a good addition to vanilla Aleph.