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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/06 01:32:02
Subject: DOD accused of instructing military to ignore Afghan child sexual abuse
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Ghazkuul wrote:Well 1: I didnt move the goal posts I just further defined what I considered to be Barbarism.
Yeah, by redefining barbarism as having strict laws on what women can wear. Trying to establish a claim of barbarism... by pointing out how strict the laws are. "It's totally wild and lawless. If you doubt me just look at these laws they have."
Your thinking on this issue is really very silly.
But anyway lets just say that the entirety of the middle east is at least 100 years behind most of the western world. again with the exception of Israel and emphasis on "MOST of the western world"
Actually no, let's not say that because it is, again, bigotry produced by very limited information and very weak thinking.
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“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/13 16:28:32
Subject: DOD accused of instructing military to ignore Afghan child sexual abuse
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Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade
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The act itself is barbaric. The origin of this post was that the Soldier who stopped this horrific act was persecuted and removed from service. He is fighting this, but as a Soldier myself I know he will probably lose. It is horrible. We have certain values beat into our brains, they are as follows. Loyalty Duty Respect Selfless Service Honor Integrity Personal Courage. If you feel this Soldier in quesiton violated our core values, then explain how please, and why he should have been persecuted with extreme prejudice. Arguing about how the middle east is good of bad is pointless. Those of use who have seen it, experienced it, can not be swayed by your arguments or a wiki page. Its that simple.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/10/13 16:30:21
10k CSM
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/13 16:51:41
Subject: DOD accused of instructing military to ignore Afghan child sexual abuse
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Member of the Ethereal Council
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Nvm
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/13 16:52:18
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/13 17:00:05
Subject: DOD accused of instructing military to ignore Afghan child sexual abuse
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Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade
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If you typted it originally you probably meant it. Please elaborate.
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10k CSM
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/13 17:02:12
Subject: Re:DOD accused of instructing military to ignore Afghan child sexual abuse
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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard
Catskills in NYS
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Or he typed something are realized he was wrong. Or accidentally replied to the wrong thread. Or simply didn't want to get in an argument.
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Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote:Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote:Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens BaronIveagh wrote:Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/13 17:24:56
Subject: Re:DOD accused of instructing military to ignore Afghan child sexual abuse
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Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
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whembly wrote: AlmightyWalrus wrote: Vaktathi wrote: whembly wrote: AlmightyWalrus wrote:Since when is al-Qaeda synonymous with Afghanistan? Yes, the Taliban government provided shelter to bin Ladin and his ilk, but I'm pretty sure it was the US that attacked Afghanistan. I'm not going to pretend that they didn't have it coming, but technically the nation of Afghanistan didn't attack the US.
Um... the Taliban was the Afghan government. o.O
I think the distinction is that the Taliban and Al-Qaeda are not the same thing. They had similar ideologies, and the Taliban provided shelter to Al-Qaeda, but Taliban is not a synonym for Al-Qaeda is I think the point that was being made. Al-Qaeda was an autonomous group comprised mostly of foreigners (and run largely by Saudi's) with aspirations of global Jihad, while the Taliban were an ethno-political group primarily interested in just ruling Afghanistan (albeit horrifyingly). Thus, the Taliban were not the ones that attacked the US, which is technically correct.
Exactly. The fact that I (and you) even had to spell that out is a bit disturbing.
Are you really advocating that the US should NOT have responded to 9/11??
We both know you're more intelligent than that. That strawman was so blatant that it's almost a disgrace. I mean, I even said in my first post that they friggin' had it coming.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/13 17:27:59
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/13 17:32:14
Subject: Re:DOD accused of instructing military to ignore Afghan child sexual abuse
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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AlmightyWalrus wrote: whembly wrote: AlmightyWalrus wrote: Vaktathi wrote: whembly wrote: AlmightyWalrus wrote:Since when is al-Qaeda synonymous with Afghanistan? Yes, the Taliban government provided shelter to bin Ladin and his ilk, but I'm pretty sure it was the US that attacked Afghanistan. I'm not going to pretend that they didn't have it coming, but technically the nation of Afghanistan didn't attack the US.
Um... the Taliban was the Afghan government. o.O
I think the distinction is that the Taliban and Al-Qaeda are not the same thing. They had similar ideologies, and the Taliban provided shelter to Al-Qaeda, but Taliban is not a synonym for Al-Qaeda is I think the point that was being made. Al-Qaeda was an autonomous group comprised mostly of foreigners (and run largely by Saudi's) with aspirations of global Jihad, while the Taliban were an ethno-political group primarily interested in just ruling Afghanistan (albeit horrifyingly). Thus, the Taliban were not the ones that attacked the US, which is technically correct.
Exactly. The fact that I (and you) even had to spell that out is a bit disturbing.
Are you really advocating that the US should NOT have responded to 9/11??
We both know you're more intelligent than that. That strawman was so blatant that it's almost a disgrace. I mean, I even said in my first post that they friggin' had it coming.
YOU brought up that comparison. Not me... The US response was towards the Taliban and their al-Qaeda allies.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/13 19:46:06
Subject: DOD accused of instructing military to ignore Afghan child sexual abuse
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Squatting with the squigs
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sebster wrote: Ghazkuul wrote:Well 1: I didnt move the goal posts I just further defined what I considered to be Barbarism.
Yeah, by redefining barbarism as having strict laws on what women can wear. Trying to establish a claim of barbarism... by pointing out how strict the laws are. "It's totally wild and lawless. If you doubt me just look at these laws they have."
Your thinking on this issue is really very silly.
I've been talking to some Afghani refugees lately and it is weird to hear them talk about the Taliban as a good thing as it kept the warlords under control and they could get back to a country that had rule of law (however much you may disagree with it). These guys I am talking to may be Taliban sympathisers, but it definitely a different viewpoint to what we hear regularly.
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My new blog: http://kardoorkapers.blogspot.com.au/
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/13 20:03:55
Subject: Re:DOD accused of instructing military to ignore Afghan child sexual abuse
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Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
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whembly wrote: AlmightyWalrus wrote: whembly wrote: AlmightyWalrus wrote: Vaktathi wrote: whembly wrote: AlmightyWalrus wrote:Since when is al-Qaeda synonymous with Afghanistan? Yes, the Taliban government provided shelter to bin Ladin and his ilk, but I'm pretty sure it was the US that attacked Afghanistan. I'm not going to pretend that they didn't have it coming, but technically the nation of Afghanistan didn't attack the US.
Um... the Taliban was the Afghan government. o.O
I think the distinction is that the Taliban and Al-Qaeda are not the same thing. They had similar ideologies, and the Taliban provided shelter to Al-Qaeda, but Taliban is not a synonym for Al-Qaeda is I think the point that was being made. Al-Qaeda was an autonomous group comprised mostly of foreigners (and run largely by Saudi's) with aspirations of global Jihad, while the Taliban were an ethno-political group primarily interested in just ruling Afghanistan (albeit horrifyingly). Thus, the Taliban were not the ones that attacked the US, which is technically correct.
Exactly. The fact that I (and you) even had to spell that out is a bit disturbing.
Are you really advocating that the US should NOT have responded to 9/11??
We both know you're more intelligent than that. That strawman was so blatant that it's almost a disgrace. I mean, I even said in my first post that they friggin' had it coming.
YOU brought up that comparison. Not me... The US response was towards the Taliban and their al-Qaeda allies.
What comparison? Who's comparing anything? The claim was made that Afghanistan declared war on the US; that is empirically not true.
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For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/13 20:54:46
Subject: DOD accused of instructing military to ignore Afghan child sexual abuse
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Krazed Killa Kan
Homestead, FL
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Bullockist wrote: sebster wrote: Ghazkuul wrote:Well 1: I didnt move the goal posts I just further defined what I considered to be Barbarism.
Yeah, by redefining barbarism as having strict laws on what women can wear. Trying to establish a claim of barbarism... by pointing out how strict the laws are. "It's totally wild and lawless. If you doubt me just look at these laws they have."
Your thinking on this issue is really very silly.
I've been talking to some Afghani refugees lately and it is weird to hear them talk about the Taliban as a good thing as it kept the warlords under control and they could get back to a country that had rule of law (however much you may disagree with it). These guys I am talking to may be Taliban sympathisers, but it definitely a different viewpoint to what we hear regularly.
The warlords and the Taliban were basically one and the same. Warlords would switch sides on a whim and would follow whomever was winning at the time and such. So its not so much one over the other but the fact that they were basically the same people with different names on different days
As far as the law is concerned, areas that were dominated by the Taliban did indeed have laws and courts, unfortunately for most people these were wildly different depending on what day of the week you went there and which judge saw your case. The biggest problem was that most of the laws were based on Sharia Law and as such pretty much anything remotely entertaining was illegal, Alcohol, Television, Music. I read a couple of great books that went over some of this stuff, i think i posted them before in the "what are you reading" topic but not sure.
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I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all
Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/13 21:20:29
Subject: DOD accused of instructing military to ignore Afghan child sexual abuse
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
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Peter Wiggin wrote: lord_blackfang wrote:No, I'm pretty sure I got it right. Maybe lay off the manifest destiny a little, it's hampering your objectivity.
Mostly it was the Russians that started EVERYTHING by selling massive amounts of weaponry to ME dictators back in the day.
What! No way!
Russia only started selling weapons because you guys were selling weapons to Israel! It is the West (the US, UK and France in particular) who started the mess by destroying the Ottoman Empire and squeezing an agressive Israel into a place that was already occupied with a vastly different culture. No sir, can't see how that could possibly destabilise the Middle East. Automatically Appended Next Post: Ghazkuul wrote: Bullockist wrote: sebster wrote: Ghazkuul wrote:Well 1: I didnt move the goal posts I just further defined what I considered to be Barbarism.
Yeah, by redefining barbarism as having strict laws on what women can wear. Trying to establish a claim of barbarism... by pointing out how strict the laws are. "It's totally wild and lawless. If you doubt me just look at these laws they have."
Your thinking on this issue is really very silly.
I've been talking to some Afghani refugees lately and it is weird to hear them talk about the Taliban as a good thing as it kept the warlords under control and they could get back to a country that had rule of law (however much you may disagree with it). These guys I am talking to may be Taliban sympathisers, but it definitely a different viewpoint to what we hear regularly.
As far as the law is concerned, areas that were dominated by the Taliban did indeed have laws and courts, unfortunately for most people these were wildly different depending on what day of the week you went there and which judge saw your case. The biggest problem was that most of the laws were based on Sharia Law and as such pretty much anything remotely entertaining was illegal, Alcohol, Television, Music. I read a couple of great books that went over some of this stuff, i think i posted them before in the "what are you reading" topic but not sure.
I don't know about you, but I would prefer restrictive laws over constant unrest and war any day of the week.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/13 21:22:51
Error 404: Interesting signature not found
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/13 21:26:38
Subject: DOD accused of instructing military to ignore Afghan child sexual abuse
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Fixture of Dakka
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Relapse wrote:Perhaps the time has come to dial back the conversation to Afghanastan, which I think we can all safely agree, is as barbaric and depraved a country as there is in today's world.
Well spoken and true.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/13 21:29:08
Subject: DOD accused of instructing military to ignore Afghan child sexual abuse
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
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Relapse wrote:Relapse wrote:Perhaps the time has come to dial back the conversation to Afghanastan, which I think we can all safely agree, is as barbaric and depraved a country as there is in today's world.
Well spoken and true.
Yes, I also think that about myself all the time.
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Error 404: Interesting signature not found
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/13 22:11:31
Subject: DOD accused of instructing military to ignore Afghan child sexual abuse
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Squatting with the squigs
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Bullockist wrote:
I've been talking to some Afghani refugees lately and it is weird to hear them talk about the Taliban as a good thing as it kept the warlords under control and they could get back to a country that had rule of law (however much you may disagree with it). These guys I am talking to may be Taliban sympathisers, but it definitely a different viewpoint to what we hear regularly.
Just who is this guy? He's a fething genius!
Edit idiocy: I cannot spell genius
I hear what you are saying oh orky overlord but i cannot shake the impression that Afghanistan is going to be a lot more chaotic after the Taliban were kicked out than they were before and for a long time. We can argue semantics and evil government and the like but all that really matters to the people is, markets, food and safety and I think all of those would have taken a nosedive after the invasion. This is what the guys I was talking to were implying.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/13 22:15:06
My new blog: http://kardoorkapers.blogspot.com.au/
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/14 14:51:41
Subject: DOD accused of instructing military to ignore Afghan child sexual abuse
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Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
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Iron_Captain wrote:
I don't know about you, but I would prefer restrictive laws over constant unrest and war any day of the week.
The thing is, inconsistent application of laws might as well be synonymous with constant unrest, because there is absolutely no way of planning for the future if you don't kno whether or not what you're doing is going to get you punished.
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For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/14 20:30:42
Subject: DOD accused of instructing military to ignore Afghan child sexual abuse
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Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade
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OK, so we all agree to disagree, do you think this particular Soldier, regardless of if you agree with him being there based on politics, should have been put out?
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10k CSM
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/14 20:36:42
Subject: DOD accused of instructing military to ignore Afghan child sexual abuse
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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redleger wrote:OK, so we all agree to disagree, do you think this particular Soldier, regardless of if you agree with him being there based on politics, should have been put out?
I don't disagree with you.
This is child abuse. Simple as that and imo, American service members, should never walk away without doing something about it.
At some point, you have to draw a line in the sand and say, this ain't happening on my watch.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/20 22:20:55
Subject: DOD accused of instructing military to ignore Afghan child sexual abuse
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Fixture of Dakka
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/20 22:33:20
Subject: DOD accused of instructing military to ignore Afghan child sexual abuse
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Fate-Controlling Farseer
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whembly wrote: redleger wrote:OK, so we all agree to disagree, do you think this particular Soldier, regardless of if you agree with him being there based on politics, should have been put out?
I don't disagree with you.
This is child abuse. Simple as that and imo, American service members, should never walk away without doing something about it.
At some point, you have to draw a line in the sand and say, this ain't happening on my watch.
This is hardly a black and white issue unfortunately.
We as US Service Members are not a part of Afghan law enforcement. The nation has a government, has laws, and has law enforcement. We are not there to act in that stead. We are there to support the Afghan fight against the Taliban/Al Qaeda/ISIS.
Did that man do wrong? Morally, no. They should have just made him "dissapear" into the mountains. As news of this was breaking, the USFOR-A Commander sent a theater wide email out establishing how we were to act in such a situation. It was not to assault the person, as this man did. Our responsibility as Service Members is to report any suspected cases of child abuse up our chain of command, so that the people in our military who have the power to legally do something about it can get involved. Back when this event took place, that was no different.
I feel for this man. The job they do is insane, and it is not fair to him that he has been treated this way, especially for showing the restraint that he did in not simply killing the man, as he truly deserved. In the end though we are all expected to follow the rules that we are bound by.
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Full Frontal Nerdity |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/20 22:46:37
Subject: DOD accused of instructing military to ignore Afghan child sexual abuse
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Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress
Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.
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To translate this into civilian.
Just because two US soldiers had moral cause to act against someone doesn't mean there are not political repercussions.
The local soldier allegedly committing these offences and has been assaulted by two US servicemen was causing a stink that has repercussions on relations between the forces involved. This is too important to be placed at (further) risk so the soldiers were cycled out.
Had the soldiers acted to prevent an actual child rape in progress things would be different, however what actually appears to have happened was an extrajudicial 'punishment beating' of a known paedophile, which is very different. Even if the assault was well intentioned and restrained.
One soldier, but apparently not the other was effectively dismissed over the accusations.
Right so far?
1. The two US servicemen possibly had different levels of culpability in the assault.
2. The two servicemen possibly had equal culpability but one got off with a warning because his career path had taken different turns.
3. Perhaps one serviceman was complaining about it too much, and the other took his punishment quietly.
4. The actions of the soldiers also embarrassed the local commander, especially now the story has gone viral. While it is one of his own soldiers fault this is not how it will be seen.
There is a dilemma here, the dismissed soldier can write his meal ticket on the back of his dismissal over this cause. He might get a press deal or a job out of it.
However by not remaining quiet he brings disgrace on his superiors who had to act as they did for strategic reasons. This is not what a good soldier should do.
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n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/20 22:49:45
Subject: DOD accused of instructing military to ignore Afghan child sexual abuse
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Fate-Controlling Farseer
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I'd say you're pretty spot on Orlanth.
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Full Frontal Nerdity |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/21 00:17:06
Subject: Re:DOD accused of instructing military to ignore Afghan child sexual abuse
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Yeah... that makes sense now.
Glad ya'll cleared that up.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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