DE Scourges - Haywire or Heat?

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**curran12**

Need a little help and guidance on this, as I am wrapping myself up on this problem.

What is the better weapon for squads of Scourges? Is it the Haywire Blaster's much more reliable haywire rolls, or is it the harder-hitting heat lance, with the AP1 lance? They cost the same points, but each have different pros and cons.

Haywire blaster:
+ Longer range (24")
+ Haywire
- Little application outside of vehicles
- Relies on glancing to death mostly, no penetrating punch

Heat lance:
+ AP1 means I can more easily cause major damage
+ S6 means the weapon has wider applications, can become infantry/monster hunters in a pinch
- Short range (18" with melta)
- S6 lance means that outside of melta range, it has almost no killing power on heavy armor

I'm very torn right now. Need to hear some other opinions.

**astro_nomicon**

Being that DE can drown most MCs and tough infantry in poison, I'd go haywire.

**Jimsolo**

Tough call. I often field one of each. It's going to depend on your meta, and points values.

Gun to my head? In the era of Hull Points, Haywire rocks socks. I find it to be a rare opponent that doesn't bring vehicles OR units with armore saves of 4 or worse.

**Frozocrone**

If you're darting about the field then Haywire is better.

If you're going to DS, either by themselves or a WWP, then Heat Lances are better.

Ofc, it's meta dependent. Haywire ain't going to do anything against Nids.

**curran12**

Well, for further information:

My meta is pretty spread out among armies. Not necessarily a lot of the super hardcore lists, they are there but rare. Usual game size is 2000 and that is what this list is for.

The Scourges will most likely be deep striking, but I am not set on that. I'm willing to put them on the table if necessary.

The idea behind my use of Scourges is 3 squads of 5. So I've got insurance for bad deep strikes or reserve rolls.

**Jimsolo**

If you're going to have multiples, then I'd definitely hedge your bets with at least one of each.

**Exergy**

Haywire is better. Even if you are running 2 squads probably make both haywire.

At 3 squads though you want to start throwing in heat, because you seriously lack versitility

**curran12**

Yeah, my plan is to run 3 squads of 5, with 4 special weapons in each. And versatility was my biggest concern as well since it is a fair investment at this point.

Now the question is do I split up by squad (4 haywire, 4 haywire, 4 heat) or do I split up the weapons evenly (2 haywire/2 heat per squad)?

**Slayer-Fan123**

curran12 wrote:
Yeah, my plan is to run 3 squads of 5, with 4 special weapons in each. And versatility was my biggest concern as well since it is a fair investment at this point.

Now the question is do I split up by squad (4 haywire, 4 haywire, 4 heat) or do I split up the weapons evenly (2 haywire/2 heat per squad)?

You always want focus. Nobody purchases different weapons on a Devastator squad for that reason.

**vipoid**

Out of interest, for those using Heat Lances, do you not have issues deep striking into position without mishapping or scattering out of melta range?

**Frozocrone**

Not usually, I Deep Strike pretty close anyway so if I do scatter it's not as bad as it could have been.

Of course you can use a WWP but then...Fire Dragons/Wraithguard.

**vipoid**

Frozocrone wrote:
Not usually, I Deep Strike pretty close anyway so if I do scatter it's not as bad as it could have been.

But, in that case, aren't you risking mishapping be scattering into your target.?

I don't know, maybe I'm just paranoid because my own record of deep strikes is so awful.

**Frozocrone**

If there is one thing I'm known for in my meta, it's pretty good scatter

**Jimsolo**

Frozocrone wrote:
If there is one thing I'm known for in my meta, it's pretty good scatter

I find that a 'no balls, no babies' approach to scatter works best.

**dominuschao**

Thats one of the benefits of heat lances over the otherwise superior melta.. 9" melta range. Scatter and mishaps have very rarely been a problem for me in this edition, its just so forgiving now.

I'll echo the sentiments above. Keep each squad focused. If bringing 1 unit I prefer melta due to larger potential impact especially on super heavy's and jinking units. If bringing multiple squads you want a mix. For 3 squads idk.

Thing is the lances are more suicidal but you get the one shot potential that haywire lacks more often than not barring lucky 4 hits 4 hp's stripped. And vs SHWs and such you will never 1 shot them without melta. Lastly consider how much diversity you might face. If you see armies without valid mech targets often enough then the haywire tends to be underwhelming in those matches where the S6 ap1 can still harm non mech. Meta dependent.

Edit- in a nutshell HWBs are utterly lethal to most 3 hp non jinking chassis no use worth mentioning vs infantry. Heat lances are greater variance but with greater potential and useful vs heavy armour.

**Jimsolo**

I don't think one shotting with the haywire squads is out of the question. 3 hits is average, and all three taking a hull point is not at all unreliable. Tons of vehicles have 3 or less HP. (Against tanks or buildings, yeah: unlikely.)

**dominuschao**

You'll average 2 hp's by math although your right 3 hp vehicles can get ghosted if they aren't jinking or in cover.

HWBs are love hate for me honestly.. if I hit 3 times it feels good but as soon as I only hit twice I'm wishing it was melta.

And one more edit.. I wanted to add that the inclusion of HWBs makes things like blasters on warriors much better since the application of a single hull point is of much more impact.

**Exergy**

vipoid wrote:
Frozocrone wrote:
Not usually, I Deep Strike pretty close anyway so if I do scatter it's not as bad as it could have been.

But, in that case, aren't you risking mishapping be scattering into your target.?

I don't know, maybe I'm just paranoid because my own record of deep strikes is so awful.

9" is a pretty big range. even if you do scatter, and scatter directly towards and away, most common result is 7.

Always DS the first guy to be the one without the special weapon. Then once you know how far you are you put the heat lances up front to get an inch closer or behind to get a little further away.

**vipoid**

Exergy wrote:

9" is a pretty big range. even if you do scatter, and scatter directly towards and away, most common result is 7.

Yeah, but that's the point. Let's say you aim the first guy (without a heat lance, obviously) 9" away from your target. Well, an average scatter in most directions will take you well beyond 9" - so you'll no longer be in melta range.

If, on the other hand, you go much closer to your target, then an average scatter probably won't take you out of melta range, but may well cause you to mishap by being too close to your target.

And, this isn't even considering the danger of mishapping into other nearby models, or even off the board.

**Icculus**

Actually the chances of scattering away from your intended target are 38% (or my math skills are way off, which is quite possible)

a third of the time you will roll a direct hit. and if you roll an arrow, you are either going to go towards the opponent or away from the opponent, (or laterally, but out of 360 degrees that's technically only a 2 degree option which accounts for .0056% to move exactly perpendicular to your target so we will just ignore that option)

So on average, you will be within melta range a majority of the time.

**vipoid**

Is this if you place the first model just within 9" of your target?

**Icculus**

vipoid wrote:
Is this if you place the first model just within 9" of your target?

This is if you place the first model to be within melta range from the beginning. So your first guy goes down, then you spiral out from him. So if your first guy is 9" away and you roll a direct hit, your melta gun could be within 8" of the opponent.

**Exergy**

It always depends on where you are in relation to other units, terrain and board edges but if you were landing next to a land raider with nothing around it I would aim for 6" away diagonally from a corner.

Then only a small chance would bring me into contact with the LR. Slightly more likely would move me away, but then I still have 4" to still be in melta range. Most scatter would not matter.