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I've always been curious with this one. Protection, strength, endurance, combat abilities are all comparable. Keep in mind Krogan do also possess two hearts, four lungs, four gonads ect.. My bets on the Krogan

What do you think?

I think that Bioware should just pony up and do a 40K game.
Then as a token of appreciation for finally the only good 40K game in the last 4 years, GW makes a Krogan army that came from the warp.
Krogans breed fast, they take up a holding on the northern outskirts right outside of the eye of terror.
Boom new army, new models, everybody loves it.

I have to say Krogan, if only because Krogan's are bad ass. I now demand a death match fan art of Urgot Wrex battling Dante!

 LordofHats wrote:
I have to say Krogan, if only because Krogan's are bad ass. I now demand a death match fan art of Urgot Wrex battling Dante!

Wrex.

Dante.

Space Marine. Krogan aren't particularly agile...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mantorok wrote:
I think that Bioware should just pony up and do a 40K game.
Then as a token of appreciation for finally the only good 40K game in the last 4 years, GW makes a Krogan army that came from the warp.
Krogans breed fast, they take up a holding on the northern outskirts right outside of the eye of terror.
Boom new army, new models, everybody loves it.

Bioware can kiss my ass, after the gakky job they made of Mass Effect 3. Hugely disappointing.

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Space Marine. Krogan aren't particularly agile...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mantorok wrote:
I think that Bioware should just pony up and do a 40K game.
Then as a token of appreciation for finally the only good 40K game in the last 4 years, GW makes a Krogan army that came from the warp.
Krogans breed fast, they take up a holding on the northern outskirts right outside of the eye of terror.
Boom new army, new models, everybody loves it.

Bioware can kiss my ass, after the gakky job they made of Mass Effect 3. Hugely disappointing.

Perhaps, but you're comparing it to the Mass Effect Franchise.
Compare it to the 40K games. I would prefer a dissapointing ending to a console game over the neverending slew of moblie dogcrap that flows from the 40K license.

Back on topic. Krogan anyday.

Space Marine utterly dominates a Krogan. Not only is an Astartes stronger, faster, more durable, equipped with better weapons and armor, but he's also got better sensors, better reaction speeds, etc.

There's no advantage the Krogan has. Most stuff in Mass Effect utterly fail to stack up against 40K characters. Especially in terms of firepower, even guardsmen would probably brutalize Mass Effect standard infantry thanks to lasguns.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Space Marine utterly dominates a Krogan. Not only is an Astartes stronger, faster, more durable, equipped with better weapons and armor, but he's also got better sensors, better reaction speeds, etc.

There's no advantage the Krogan has. Most stuff in Mass Effect utterly fail to stack up against 40K characters. Especially in terms of firepower, even guardsmen would probably brutalize Mass Effect standard infantry thanks to lasguns.

Remember that krogans have access to plasma that won't blow up in their face, and have individual force fields.
That aside, Krogans are bred from birth to fight. If you'll check the wiki you'll see that krogan have a number of redundant systems, and are incredibly durable by mass effect standards.
This means something in a world of plasma, lasers and electrical pulses. I would argue that the krogan have a 5+ armor save from their natural skin, and 4+ by their armor.
They also have a 5+ invuln save from their force field, and the fact that they can wield grenades and plasma that doesn't get hot.
I would argue WS 4 BS 4 (remember raised from birth to warrior, plus their armor and weapons does contain AI that assists with aiming) S4 T4 W2 I3 A2 L7 (regardless cause they're fearless) They only fear getting their headplate torn off.

 Mantorok wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Space Marine utterly dominates a Krogan. Not only is an Astartes stronger, faster, more durable, equipped with better weapons and armor, but he's also got better sensors, better reaction speeds, etc.

There's no advantage the Krogan has. Most stuff in Mass Effect utterly fail to stack up against 40K characters. Especially in terms of firepower, even guardsmen would probably brutalize Mass Effect standard infantry thanks to lasguns.

Remember that krogans have access to plasma that won't blow up in their face, and have individual force fields.
That aside, Krogans are bred from birth to fight. If you'll check the wiki you'll see that krogan have a number of redundant systems, and are incredibly durable by mass effect standards.
This means something in a world of plasma, lasers and electrical pulses. I would argue that the krogan have a 5+ armor save from their natural skin, and 4+ by their armor.
They also have a 5+ invuln save from their force field, and the fact that they can wield grenades and plasma that doesn't get hot.
I would argue WS 4 BS 4 (remember raised from birth to warrior, plus their armor and weapons does contain AI that assists with aiming) S4 T4 W2 I3 A2 L7 (regardless cause they're fearless) They only fear getting their headplate torn off.

TT stats are contrived meaningless gak. What matters is feats, and Krogans lack anything that is remotely impressive in 40K. They're hilariously slow compared to an Astartes, not nearly as strong or durable, and their kinetic barriers aren't all that useful when the enemy is using a 19mm cannon firing rounds that can gut APC's. The only thing the Krogan has going for him is his biotic powers- but those are only useful if he has the speed and intelligent to immediately use them instead of just charging in for melee.

Also "it's plasma lol" means nothing unless the plasma is comparable to either Imperium or Tau standards. Which it isn't, especially IOM, as their plasma guns spit globs of energy that are effectively miniature solar flares considering they burn at around twenty million degrees per Deathwatch. Also the lethality of plasma guns to their user is laughably overhyped thanks to a game stat and balancing mechanic- plasma guns are only in danger of blowing up the user if the shooter grows careless and does not vent the rapidly increasing temperatures. Tau plasma, while not the lulzy "miniatured globs of stellar matter" of overkill that is IOM plasma weapons, is also still pretty damn dangerous considering they can core a human being IIRC.

 Wyzilla wrote:

TT stats are contrived meaningless gak. What matters is feats, and Krogans lack anything that is remotely impressive in 40K. They're hilariously slow compared to an Astartes, not nearly as strong or durable, and their kinetic barriers aren't all that useful when the enemy is using a 19mm cannon firing rounds that can gut APC's. The only thing the Krogan has going for him is his biotic powers- but those are only useful if he has the speed and intelligent to immediately use them instead of just charging in for melee.

Also "it's plasma lol" means nothing unless the plasma is comparable to either Imperium or Tau standards. Which it isn't, especially IOM, as their plasma guns spit globs of energy that are effectively miniature solar flares considering they burn at around twenty million degrees per Deathwatch. Also the lethality of plasma guns to their user is laughably overhyped thanks to a game stat and balancing mechanic- plasma guns are only in danger of blowing up the user if the shooter grows careless and does not vent the rapidly increasing temperatures. Tau plasma, while not the lulzy "miniatured globs of stellar matter" of overkill that is IOM plasma weapons, is also still pretty damn dangerous considering they can core a human being IIRC.

Darn you saw through my clever ruse(s).
Yeah I think you're right.
As far as tech goes the Krogan are outclassed, although I would still want to see a gladiatorial bare-knuckle brawl.

The speed advantage of an Astartes would be severe, and the strength of Astartes bones ensures that it wouldn't take many hits to down a Krogan.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Space Marine utterly dominates a Krogan. Not only is an Astartes stronger, faster, more durable, equipped with better weapons and armor, but he's also got better sensors, better reaction speeds, etc.

There's no advantage the Krogan has. Most stuff in Mass Effect utterly fail to stack up against 40K characters. Especially in terms of firepower, even guardsmen would probably brutalize Mass Effect standard infantry thanks to lasguns.

This.

Krogan as they are in the Mass Effect games are fully comparable to human soldiers. Stronger and tougher, but slow. It is fully possible for a man to beat them in unarmed combat.

Astartes and humans, meanwhile, are on whole different playing fields.

The human is a Colt M1911, the Krogan is a Desert Eagle, and the Astartes is a GAU-8 Avenger.

 Mantorok wrote:
I think that Bioware should just pony up and do a 40K game.
Then as a token of appreciation for finally the only good 40K game in the last 4 years, GW makes a Krogan army that came from the warp.
Krogans breed fast, they take up a holding on the northern outskirts right outside of the eye of terror.
Boom new army, new models, everybody loves it.

Plzmakethishappencoztwofanbaseswillloveyou4evar

Being utterly ignorant of the Mass Effect franchise, and judging purely from the posts here....

Krogan are basically Orks with more reliable tech?

Tough, strong, slowish reaction time (initiative) reproduce fast... Other than the 5+ skin they sound pretty Orky.

My two curious cents.

PS: if they're Orky, and a Krogan Battlemaster is an Ork Warboss or even a Nob analog in 'Eavy Armor a generic Space Marine is probably very, very dead.

Pretty much. They're a bit smarter though, and have less majik (as far as I can tell from my minor forays into the ME universe)

Warboss Gorhack wrote:
Being utterly ignorant of the Mass Effect franchise, and judging purely from the posts here....

Krogan are basically Orks with more reliable tech?

Tough, strong, slowish reaction time (initiative) reproduce fast... Other than the 5+ skin they sound pretty Orky.

My two curious cents.

PS: if they're Orky, and a Krogan Battlemaster is an Ork Warboss or even a Nob analog in 'Eavy Armor a generic Space Marine is probably very, very dead.

I'm not entirely sure where this perception of them being slow is from. You watch Grunt here, and whilst he's not Kai Leng, he's no slower than a normal human.




They're as agile as a normal human is. They also boast a natural frame, strength, and durability that would take a bodybuilder extensive training to pull off. To pull from the wiki:-

They have effective, dense musculature, a large mass, and skin 'only penetrable by a molecular blade'. They have eyes on the side of the head to give a greater field of vision, which allows them to better see those sneaking up on them. With most krogan, their body possesses primary, secondary and even tertiary organs and backups, even going so far as to have a redundant nervous system, their primary one being a system of electrically conductive fluid rather than a nervous one. Capable of cellular regeneration unseen in most races, (perhaps explaining their longevity, though they must also counter genetic aging), rivaling even the Vorcha, Krogan are resilient warriors.

To summarise, there's actually a lot of parallels between them and the average Ork, from the tough frame to the difficulty in putting them down. I'd argue that an average Krogan is equivalent to an 'Ard Boy, that is to say a Slugga Boy in armour, but with far more intelligence.

That all being said, I think a normal Space Marine vs a normal Krogan would take a Krogan down. A Krogan Battlemaster? I daresay he'd be a little stronger and a little better in direct combat than a normal Krogan, so I'd give those 50/50 odds against a reasonably new SM. A serious space marine Vet like a Long Fang or something though would be far more likely to put him down physically. If he had biotics, that could even things out though. If the SM was a psyker, then it would tilt the odds back again.

In conclusion, I think your base space marine is better than your base Krogan, but in the same way a well trained/equipped Commissar or Inquisitor can fight a CSM and win, a well trained Krogan could take down a standard marine. The most powerful Marines would demolish the most powerful Krogan though.

They have nowhere near the strength or durability of Orks. Shepard staggered one with a headbutt. A headbutt from an Astartes would have caved in its skull.

@Ketara: The fact that they are comparable in speed to humans is the issue. That makes them decidedly slower than an Astartes.

 Ketara wrote:
In conclusion, I think your base space marine is better than your base Krogan, but in the same way a well trained/equipped Commissar or Inquisitor can fight a CSM and win, a well trained Krogan could take down a standard marine. The most powerful Marines would demolish the most powerful Krogan though.

In a propaganda text, a Commissar has taken on a CSM and won.

The distinction is important here, because in the propaganda, SM companies capture rebel planets alone.

Also keep in mind Grunt is a genetically engineered Krogan supersoldier. He is not their SM equivalent, of course, but he is not a normal Krogan at all.

 Orblivion wrote:
They have nowhere near the strength or durability of Orks. Shepard staggered one with a headbutt. A headbutt from an Astartes would have caved in its skull.
.

I recall it being more of a surprise stun thing. As opposed to actually knocking it to the ground. In fact, I'll prove it.




And you know, most people would be a lot more hurt than that if you gave them a full headbutt to the face. You'd have a broken nose and fairly acute pain. The krogan was just like, 'Wait, wha?'

So yes. Disagree completely, proof given.

 Ashiraya wrote:


In a propaganda text, a Commissar has taken on a CSM and won.

Commissar Ciaphas Cain would disagree. And a krogan has a lot more durability than he does.

 Ketara wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:
They have nowhere near the strength or durability of Orks. Shepard staggered one with a headbutt. A headbutt from an Astartes would have caved in its skull.
.

I recall it being more of a stun/surprise thing. As opposed to actually knocking it to the ground.

That's what staggered means. The Krogan definitely felt it, took a step back to steady himself and then shook his head. Even if you assume that part of Shepard's Lazarus project upgrades was a metal plate on his forehead, a Space Marine's entire skeleton is as strong as, if not stronger than, that metal plate.

 Orblivion wrote:

 Ketara wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:
They have nowhere near the strength or durability of Orks. Shepard staggered one with a headbutt. A headbutt from an Astartes would have caved in its skull.
.

I recall it being more of a stun/surprise thing. As opposed to actually knocking it to the ground.

That's what staggered means. The Krogan definitely felt it, took a step back to steady himself and then shook his head.

Reread. You were trying to prove that a Krogan was inferior to an Ork in toughness, not that they are inferior to a Space Marine. I suspect me headbutting an ork as hard as I could in the face would produce a similar reaction, and that it would do as little damage. Whereas me headbutting you in the face like that would drop you.

TL;DR your basic Ork and Krogan are about comparable.

 Ketara wrote:


Commissar Ciaphas Cain would disagree. And a krogan has a lot more durability than he does.

Exactly, those books. The Cain books are explicitly in-universe texts. They are horridly unreliable and should not be used as evidence of more than what the characters thought should have happened, no matter if it happened or not.

It's comparable to the Space Wolf text where Leman Russ catches the father of all Kraken with a fishing pole, and throws it back in because it is too small, where it then grows to occupy much of Fenris.

 Ketara wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

 Ketara wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:
They have nowhere near the strength or durability of Orks. Shepard staggered one with a headbutt. A headbutt from an Astartes would have caved in its skull.
.

I recall it being more of a stun/surprise thing. As opposed to actually knocking it to the ground.

That's what staggered means. The Krogan definitely felt it, took a step back to steady himself and then shook his head.

Reread. You were trying to prove that a Krogan was inferior to an Ork in toughness, not that they are superior to a Space Marine. I suspect me headbutting an ork as hard as I could in the face would produce a similar reaction, and that it would do as little damage. Whereas me headbutting you in the face like that would drop you.

TL;DR your basic Ork and Krogan are about comparable.

No, that's still my point. If an average human were to headbutt an Ork, I assume that the Ork would barely grunt and the human would howl in pain.

Indeed. Orks are absurdly tough compared to humans.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Ketara wrote:


Commissar Ciaphas Cain would disagree. And a krogan has a lot more durability than he does.

Exactly, those books. The Cain books are explicitly in-universe texts. They are horridly unreliable and should not be used as evidence of more than what the characters thought should have happened, no matter if it happened or not.

If we assume that they are canon in that a Commissar managed to go head to head with a CSM on multiple occasions, and deliver the coup de grace in a few of them, we can conclude that whether or not he has much hope of winning due to the biological differences of strength and durability, a human can equal an Astartes in skill. This is borne out by in game stats, and many, many other pieces of fluff about the place.

If we work with that, we can assume that an experienced Krogan Battlemaster can acquire a similiar level of skill, and (being a Krogan) have enhanced durability and strength also. Not, I hasten to add, comparable to that of a Space Marine, but I would argue comparable to that of your average Ork at the least. In other words, the Marine will win the majority of the time, but given sufficient luck/circumstance/combat misjudgement by the Marine (which happens with any warrior) it is conceivable for a Krogan Battlemaster to triumph. The more experienced the Marine, the smaller the odds of this happening though.


If that aforementioned Battlemaster has sufficient biotic powers however, I could see him being able to take down a more experienced Marine, depending on what powers he has.

 Orblivion wrote:

No, that's still my point. If an average human were to headbutt an Ork, I assume that the Ork would barely grunt and the human would howl in pain.

Prove it please. Link me to an example of a human headbutting an ork, the ork laughing, and the human reeling away and passing out.

Also, even if you do so, it still fails to prove the point. Primarily because a species durability/strength/toughness is not, alas, based upon how well it takes a headbutt to the face. If I kick you in the crotch, you'll collapse in pain, but just because an alien with no testicles does not does not mean it is physically stronger than you. It just means that the frame/nervous system are less vulnerable to damage at that specific point.

 Ketara wrote:
Not, I hasten to add, comparable to that of a Space Marine, but I would argue comparable to that of your average Ork at the least.

I think there is where we aren't lining up. Orks are actually tougher than Space Marines, and often stronger as well.

 Orblivion wrote:

 Ketara wrote:
Not, I hasten to add, comparable to that of a Space Marine, but I would argue comparable to that of your average Ork at the least.

I think there is where we aren't lining up. Orks are actually tougher than Space Marines, and often stronger as well.

That depends on the Ork. Orks grown bigger and stronger according to size and dominance. I would argue that a Nob is likely to be bigger and stronger than all but the most freakishly large of Krogan (the genetic outliers, so to speak, like Hugo the Giant). I think that your average slugga boy though, is on about the same level as a Krogan.

 Ashiraya wrote:

It's comparable to the Space Wolf text where Leman Russ catches the father of all Kraken with a fishing pole, and throws it back in because it is too small, where it then grows to occupy much of Fenris.

I like to think that actually happened

 Mantorok wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Space Marine utterly dominates a Krogan. Not only is an Astartes stronger, faster, more durable, equipped with better weapons and armor, but he's also got better sensors, better reaction speeds, etc.

There's no advantage the Krogan has. Most stuff in Mass Effect utterly fail to stack up against 40K characters. Especially in terms of firepower, even guardsmen would probably brutalize Mass Effect standard infantry thanks to lasguns.

Remember that krogans have access to plasma that won't blow up in their face, and have individual force fields.
That aside, Krogans are bred from birth to fight. If you'll check the wiki you'll see that krogan have a number of redundant systems, and are incredibly durable by mass effect standards.
This means something in a world of plasma, lasers and electrical pulses. I would argue that the krogan have a 5+ armor save from their natural skin, and 4+ by their armor.
They also have a 5+ invuln save from their force field, and the fact that they can wield grenades and plasma that doesn't get hot.
I would argue WS 4 BS 4 (remember raised from birth to warrior, plus their armor and weapons does contain AI that assists with aiming) S4 T4 W2 I3 A2 L7 (regardless cause they're fearless) They only fear getting their headplate torn off.

But the weapons they have faced in their entire history of ground-based warfare pale in comparison to the brutality of a bolter.

It's got four hearts? Great. Those shields collapse in the first burst of bolter fire, the next round enters his chest and explodes, destroying all four hearts. Krogan drops like a sack of bricks.

 Psienesis wrote:


But the weapons they have faced in their entire history of ground-based warfare pale in comparison to the brutality of a bolter.

It's got four hearts? Great. Those shields collapse in the first burst of bolter fire, the next round enters his chest and explodes, destroying all four hearts. Krogan drops like a sack of bricks.

Yes. On a firing range with a Krogan tied up naked.

In a combat situation, the Krogan takes cover (like any enemy), has the brains to keep it's head down whilst it's shield recharges (which is a variable length of time, could be quick, could be slow), wears armour (to deflect some of the damage) and has enough redundant systems not to die from a single glancing shot to somewhere that isn't vital.

I'm not saying that the Marine doesn't have advantage (it does), but as with any combat situation, there's rarely a straight forward situation. If a Marine jet packs down and shoots the krogan in the head, the krogan is dead. If the krogan is in cover and the marine is out in the open, things are less obvious.