Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Polonius wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
b-b-b-but how we will have an Obama poutrage thread if we look at the facts?

I read the article. I know it has Alaskan support and it has for a long time. It still disgraces an American who died serving our country. It's even more disgraceful that it is a USA president that is pushing it through.

It's not like Obama is calling it Barack's Rock

LOL. I vote Barack's Rock!


Who cares what Alaskans want to name their own mountains? Disgrace? Outrageous? Hyperbole?

It's lucky "Glee"has finished or there's no telling what monstrous deed might follow next !

 Polonius wrote:
It's not like Obama is calling it Barack's Rock

I don't know why I find this so hilarious, but I do.

 Ouze wrote:
I suspect the average American could not name more than 3 mountains, total.

Everest, Mitchell, K2, Killamanjaro(murdered that name), barai Ghar (afghanistan) then of course my home state of New Hampshire has dozens of mountains and most are historic names of presidents such as Mount's Washington, adams, jefferson, Sam Adams, Quincy Adams, Abigail Adams etc etc. So either I am an Above average American or you seriously underestimate the average US citizen.

It's official, we need to find a bolder or something we can name after him.

Wow really? This this thread is trying way too hard

Surprised the OP didnt add a "Thanks Obama" at the end of their post as well

 Ghazkuul wrote:
you seriously underestimate the average US citizen.

In a country where 6 out of 10 people can't name the 3 branches of government, that hardly seems possible.

 Ouze wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
you seriously underestimate the average US citizen.

In a country where 6 out of 10 people can't name the 3 branches of government, that hardly seems possible.

Maybe the crowd I hung around with were above average then, but I can't think of a single person I know who couldn't name all 3 branches of the Government. Granted most of us have or are working for one of those three.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
b-b-b-but how we will have an Obama poutrage thread if we look at the facts?

I read the article. I know it has Alaskan support and it has for a long time. It still disgraces an American who died serving our country. It's even more disgraceful that it is a USA president that is pushing it through.

does it change your mind that the mountain wasn't originally named in honor of him?

It was named McKinley after he received the nomination for president, by a gold miner who favored the gold standard championed by McKinely, as opposed to the Silver Standard platform of William Jennings Bryan.

You can also argue that it's a bit rude to rename a mountain that had a name for centuries. It's not like Obama is calling it Barack's Rock or something, he's restoring the original name.

Isn't everything all around us renamed though and we all go on about our lives not caring how rude it is? I am on the cusp here...part of me can feel for the Alaskans right to do what they wish with their mountain but part of me just can't stand the message it sends to the rest of the world - that America is weak and doesn't even care for it's own heritage.

Uh, wouldn't restoring the name to that used by a people we have senselessly marginalized and abused by "[caring] for it's [sic] own heritage"?

This is not an issue. The fact that a bunch of ding dongs from Ohio had any say in something going on in Alaska is beyond ludicrous. There's already plenty of crap named after a "who?" President who even the curator of the museum dedicated to him admits is "not one of the best presidents, but certainly not one of the worst".

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
you seriously underestimate the average US citizen.

In a country where 6 out of 10 people can't name the 3 branches of government, that hardly seems possible.

Maybe the crowd I hung around with were above average then, but I can't think of a single person I know who couldn't name all 3 branches of the Government. Granted most of us have or are working for one of those three.

Possibly a reason.

I, myself, can name dozens of mountain, but that's probably because I hike up a lot of them.

 Strombones wrote:
Who cares what Alaskans want to name their own mountains? Disgrace? Outrageous? Hyperbole?

It is, in fact, not their own mountain. It's federal land, and therefore the nation's mountain.

For me, it was named McKinley for fairly dopey reasons, and unlike some indigenous names, Denali sounds really cool. Also, the fact that the only politicians that care are Alaskans and Ohioans, and I think you go with the original, cool name.

Alaska also has a large and active native population compared to most states. It's not like this name is lost to the ages, there are still people that speak the language the name comes from.

 Ouze wrote:
I suspect the average American could not name more than 3 mountains, total.

Pfft, easy. I'm not even from America, and I can think of Thunder, Space and Splash. That's just from Florida.

 Polonius wrote:
I'm glad to see this is being treated with the level of discourse it deserves...

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2015/08/31/ralph-regula-denali-mckinley-obama.html

“... he can’t change a law by a flick of the pen. ...”

Sure he can. That's how laws work.

Perhaps the residents of Ohio can petition General Motors. I saw The Untouchables, I know what happens next.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
I suspect the average American could not name more than 3 mountains, total.

Pfft, easy. I'm not even from America, and I can think of Thunder, Space and Splash. That's just from Florida.

I came up with Magic, That One From Alive, and That One From Cliffhanger.

I'm pretty sure there was a mountain in the movie K2 but I don't know what it was called.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
I suspect the average American could not name more than 3 mountains, total.

Pfft, easy. I'm not even from America, and I can think of Thunder, Space and Splash. That's just from Florida.

 Polonius wrote:
I'm glad to see this is being treated with the level of discourse it deserves...

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2015/08/31/ralph-regula-denali-mckinley-obama.html

“... he can’t change a law by a flick of the pen. ...”

Sure he can. That's how laws work.

you sir get an exalt!


Most American's don't care about geography or history because realistically it won't ever benefit them. So I can understand them not knowing much, but I mean if you live in New England you know at least a half dozen mountain names because you drive by them, over them or near them on a regular basis

I imagine the only people who will care about this are the ones who would be fire up the outrage for "Obama eats a sandwich" headlines.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Isn't everything all around us renamed though and we all go on about our lives not caring how rude it is? I am on the cusp here...part of me can feel for the Alaskans right to do what they wish with their mountain but part of me just can't stand the message it sends to the rest of the world - that America is weak and doesn't even care for it's own heritage.

Umm, no, not everything around us is renamed.... In Oregon, there's the Willamette River, which is a Native American word. There's the Allegheny river as well. In Washington, we have a number of towns, rivers, lakes and mountains that still have their original native names, by and large.



Either way, I think you're taking this just a bit too seriously. Afterall, it's not like the President is signing a law that has renamed anything after himself

 motyak wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

if the state wants to do it, its their call.

It really seems like it's just Obama okaying something the state wants that he technically has to because it has to be the feds who okay the change. So states rights people should love it right?

Yes actually.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ouze wrote:
b-b-b-but how we will have an Obama poutrage thread if we look at the facts?

Here you go:
Obama is making Canadian poutain?
Thanks Obama!

 Xenomancers wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
I have no problems with this.

Bothers me - was my favorite mountain when I was a kid. Now this clown of a president changes it's name? It's been that way for over 100 years. If locals want to call it it's indigenous name that's fine. It's a spit in the face to our 25th president who was assassinated in office.

100 years. Ha! The Athabascan Indians and the rest of them have been calling it Denali for a good deal longer.

 Polonius wrote:

 Strombones wrote:
Who cares what Alaskans want to name their own mountains? Disgrace? Outrageous? Hyperbole?

It is, in fact, not their own mountain. It's federal land, and therefore the nation's mountain.

So its IS Barack's Rock!!!!!

 Xenomancers wrote:
part of me just can't stand the message it sends to the rest of the world - that America is weak and doesn't even care for it's own heritage.

I don't think anyone considers the country that spent 9 trillion dollars on nuclear weapons "weak". And Americans are probably the most annoyingly patriotic people in the universe. We're all pretty fed up of hearing about how much you love 'Murica and Freedom(™), and thinking you saved us all. There is really zero danger of anyone thinking that you don't care about your heritage.

It was actually kind of nice to see some lip-service being paid to indigenous heritage. Preserving some of America's indigenous culture seems like the least you guys could do, given how most of it was wiped out. It made you look slightly magnanimous to the rest of the world, for about 10 seconds, until the republicans stepped-in to do the work of Satan once again.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

I, myself, can name dozens of mountain, but that's probably because I hike up a lot of them.

I know that I can as well, even though I don't actually hike but then again, I love history, and geography, in some senses is merely an extension of that. (as in, it really does help to have some basic understanding of geography and where things are located to understand the breadth and scope of certain events)

Let's see there's Shasta, Rainier, Hood, Pike's Peak, Alp D'Huez, Zugspitz, Matterhorn, the 3 Sisters, Mt. Jefferson (Oregon), Mt. Washington (Oregon)..... Obviously Everest Mt. Kilauea in Hawaii...

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
b-b-b-but how we will have an Obama poutrage thread if we look at the facts?

I read the article. I know it has Alaskan support and it has for a long time. It still disgraces an American who died serving our country. It's even more disgraceful that it is a USA president that is pushing it through.

Maybe someone can rename a hill somewhere that was actually visited by the president instead of a mountain in a state that he never even set foot in?

 curran12 wrote:
I imagine the only people who will care about this are the ones who would be fire up the outrage for "Obama eats a sandwich" headlines.

WHAT?! HE ATE A SANDWICH?!

JESUS CHRIST OBAMA, FIX THE ECONOMY BEFORE YOU HAVE A SANDWICH!

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
you seriously underestimate the average US citizen.

In a country where 6 out of 10 people can't name the 3 branches of government, that hardly seems possible.

Maybe the crowd I hung around with were above average then, but I can't think of a single person I know who couldn't name all 3 branches of the Government. Granted most of us have or are working for one of those three.

The legislative, the executive, and the Santa Maria?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
I imagine the only people who will care about this are the ones who would be fire up the outrage for "Obama eats a sandwich" headlines.

WHAT?! HE ATE A SANDWICH?!

JESUS CHRIST OBAMA, FIX THE ECONOMY BEFORE YOU HAVE A SANDWICH!

It was probably a Cuban sandwich as well, what a communist.

 d-usa wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
I imagine the only people who will care about this are the ones who would be fire up the outrage for "Obama eats a sandwich" headlines.

WHAT?! HE ATE A SANDWICH?!

JESUS CHRIST OBAMA, FIX THE ECONOMY BEFORE YOU HAVE A SANDWICH!

It was probably a Cuban sandwich as well, what a communist.

I don't know what kind it was, but it wasn't made by Michelle

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
you seriously underestimate the average US citizen.

In a country where 6 out of 10 people can't name the 3 branches of government, that hardly seems possible.

Maybe the crowd I hung around with were above average then, but I can't think of a single person I know who couldn't name all 3 branches of the Government. Granted most of us have or are working for one of those three.

I work with a lady who both works for the Department of Veterans Affairs and also is in the National Guard, and also considers herself a well educated political active person.

She once spend 30 minutes trying to convince me that the DVA is part of the DOD and when I tried to explain to her that the DVA and the DOD are both cabinet level agencies of the executive branch she argued with me and said that we are part of the 4th branch of the government called the administrative branch.

Having had a quick read about the subject there doesn't seem to be any special reason for the mountain to be named McKinley, but neither is there any reason to name it Denali as things might have multiple names depending on the language, ie. it can be McKinley in English but Denali in native language.

As far as the actual "Obama is singlehandedly deciding to change the name" we should keep in mind the following:

1) The mountain is in Alaska and Alaska changed the name to Denali a long time ago.
2) Quite a while ago congress passed a bill declaring the national park around the mountain as Denali National Park with the compromise that the mountain will keep the current name.
3) The same bill also included a provision that no bill can be introduced to change the name as long as there is already a bill introduced to keep the name.
4) A certain senator from Ohio made sure to introduce that bill every session.

So if we want to bitch about a single person deciding what the name of a mountain should be we should probably look towards Ohio.

B-b-b-but OBERMA?