ver 150 Students Walk Out Of School To Protest Transgender Teen Using Girls’ Locker Room

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**Frazzled**

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2015/09/02/protest-transgender-teen-bathroom/

HILLSBORO, Mo. (CBS St. Louis) – Over 150 Missouri high school students voiced their displeasure about a transgender teen using the girls’ locker room by walking out of class.

Students at Hillsboro High School staged a two-hour walkout Monday over 17-year-old Lila Perry, a student who has identified as a female since she was 13, using the girls’ locker room during gym class.

The school offered Perry a gender-neutral bathroom, which she turned down. St. Louis attorney Timm Schowalter says, “All students have a right, under Title 9, to access the bathroom of their choice.”

Family members of high school students were also holding a protest.

“Boys need to have their own locker room. Girls need to have their own locker room, and if somebody has mixed feelings where they are, they need to have their own also,” protester Jeff Childs told KMOV. Childs was holding a “Girls Rights Matter” sign.

Tammy Sorden, whose son goes to Hillsboro High School, believes it’s not right to give Lila special treatment “while the girls just have to suck it up.”

“The girls have rights, and they shouldn’t have to share a bathroom with a boy,” she told the Post-Dispatch.

Schowalter has worked with many corporations in gender equality and transgender issues. On KMOX Wednesday morning, the attorney was asked where he thought the situation would end up.

“It’s going to end up in court. And that’s where most of these issues are decided,” Schowalter says. “You have the administrative agencies – OSHA, EEOC, and the Department of Education clashing with the courts. Most of the times … the court, when the issue gets there, will not enforce those guidelines.”

Lila has dropped out of gym class for safety concerns, but she still plans on using the girl’s bathroom.

**-Shrike-**

Well, this could be interesting, especially as she refused the gender-neutral bathroom. I presume, for all intents and purposes, she still looked like a boy? (i.e. limited hormone therapy, no operation, etc.)

**whembly**

Here's the Post Dispatch article:
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/hillsboro-high-students-walk-out-over-transgender-dispute/article_be488fab-d239-5944-9733-32f569dcdc32.html

**Polonius**

Interesting. It seems like a bit of an overreaction, because nothing says "You're not wanted" than 150 people staging a protest, but this is going to end the same way it's ended everywhere else.

Virtually every adjudicator has held that sexual identity is not based on physical characteristics, and that a bona fide identity as one gender is enough to be classified as that gender.

The question is: can a person decide their gender. I don't mean on a whim, but can a person make the statement "I'm a female" and hold others to it? The answer increasingly seems to be yes, they can.

**Frazzled**

I haven't seen anything one way or the other. Its a sad situation all around.

**Polonius**

Frazzled wrote:
I haven't seen anything one way or the other. Its a sad situation all around.

It is, because when you read the link Whembly posted, its clear that people are use the Locker room issue to kind of get at a deeper fear and dislike of trans individuals:

“This needs to stop before it goes too far,” said Childs, who has a niece and a nephew who go to an elementary school in Hillsboro. “I’m not trying to be ignorant, but (the transgender student) is bringing it out in public for everybody else to deal with.”

Here, his problem is that the trans person is making everybody else "deal" with her gender. Which is true, but something we all do. Everybody has to deal with me being male, whether they like it or not.

I'm not insensitive to the issue here. I think it's natural to have a kneejerk, "rooster in the henhouse" type concern about a trans individual in the locker room. I'm not even sure to what extent we should allow minors to make identity choices. That all said, this seems pretty mean spirited over a fairly minor issue.

**whembly**

Until we have that 'Starship Trooper Shower' scene as culturally accepted (every young boy's wet dream)...

This will always be an issue.

Seems to me that the gender-neutral bathroom is the best solution.

**Nostromodamus**

Polonius wrote:
I'm not even sure to what extent we should allow minors to make identity choices.

Is it a choice?

**timetowaste85**

Timm Schowalter says, “All students have a right, under Title 9, to access the bathroom of their choice.”

Wish this existed while I was in school:

"Principal Brown, according to Title 9, I choose to use the girl's bathroom instead of the boys."
"Why?"
"Well, I hear it's nicer and I can hopefully catch a peak of some boobies. It's my choice!"

Not saying that's what's happening here. At all. Just that the lawyer opened up that particular possibility with his choice of wording.

**nkelsch**

-Shrike- wrote:
Well, this could be interesting, especially as she refused the gender-neutral bathroom. I presume, for all intents and purposes, she still looked like a boy? (i.e. limited hormone therapy, no operation, etc.)

Depending on the law, she potentially has every right to refuse isolation as in states with anti-discrimination laws for transgender where you use the public facility based upon your identity, it doesn't matter at what stage you are in regards to transition.

But it is a state-by-state issue.

Missouri is rated 'very bad' for transgender legislation.

Missouri includes gender identity in its hate-crime laws — but that’s pretty much it. However, there have been some small but encouraging stories of progress throughout the state. The University of Missouri just announced that its main campus in Columbia will start offering gender-neutral housing for nonconforming students. And, The Advocate reported last year on a trans elementary student whose transition was handled with comparative grace by his school’s administrators. Parents "received a letter Friday informing them that one of the students — formerly known as Adam — was transgender, and would be returning to school as a girl who wanted to be known by a different name from that point forward. The letter also included a note apparently intended to discourage bullying, reminding students to treat everyone ‘as they would like to be treated.’”

Basically, there is no anti-discrimination laws in regards to transgender and for the most part in that state it is totally up to the location to decide how they want to handle bathroom and locker rooms.

Bigots need to grow up. Penises don't spontaneously raping people in locker rooms. There is no 'danger' especially in a close community where everyone knows the specific person doing it and is aware of their situation... This is not opening the door for the football team to all wear wigs and harass women in the locker room.

Sadly for this girl, the law is not on her side in this state and it really is at the total discretion of the school there which means it can be impacted by public opinion. If the laws were on the books already, the protesters wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

**Polonius**

Alex C wrote:
Polonius wrote:
I'm not even sure to what extent we should allow minors to make identity choices.

Is it a choice?

Maybe declarations is a better term.

**-Shrike-**

Alex C wrote:
Polonius wrote:
I'm not even sure to what extent we should allow minors to make identity choices.

Is it a choice?

You choose to identify as something other than the sex you were born with. In (hopefully) the majority of cases, your brain chemistry will support your claim, but I'm sure that's not true in all cases.

**whembly**

I realize that trans issues a big thing now... but, where's the consideration for these other girls?

**Polonius**

whembly wrote:
I realize that trans issues a big thing now... but, where's the consideration for these other girls?

The question is, and I'm not being rhetorical, "how are they harmed?"

And I'm not sure. I've never been a high school girl, and I'm not sure to what extent they are harmed by this.

**d-usa**

There seems to be a lot of repeating of history. Students used to walk out because they had to share facilities with other races, or shut down public services because of desegregation. We got through it then, we will get through it now.

**Frazzled**

whembly wrote:
Until we have that 'Starship Trooper Shower' scene as culturally accepted (every young boy's wet dream)...

This will always be an issue.

Seems to me that the gender-neutral bathroom is the best solution.

Which was available.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Polonius wrote:
whembly wrote:
I realize that trans issues a big thing now... but, where's the consideration for these other girls?

The question is, and I'm not being rhetorical, "how are they harmed?"

And I'm not sure. I've never been a high school girl, and I'm not sure to what extent they are harmed by this.

How are they not harmed. There are separate facilities for a reason. Like it or not he's still a bio he. Fix that and I can't see an issue.

**Crablezworth**

Polonius wrote:
whembly wrote:
I realize that trans issues a big thing now... but, where's the consideration for these other girls?

The question is, and I'm not being rhetorical, "how are they harmed?"

And I'm not sure. I've never been a high school girl, and I'm not sure to what extent they are harmed by this.

Do you see any potential issue with someone declaring themselves gender fluid and using either facility at will?

**whembly**

d-usa wrote:
There seems to be a lot of repeating of history. Students used to walk out because they had to share facilities with other races, or shut down public services because of desegregation. We got through it then, we will get through it now.

I disagree...

The female sex is more than a wig and wearing a dress.

The female sex is more than fake boobs and lipstick.

You can't easily change your skin color anymore that you can change if you have twigs & berries.

Don't you think that these girls have a right to 'bodily privacy'?

Furthermore, *he* also doesn't get to determine what's best for hundreds of young girls nor 'judge' their reaction.

This school is in a no win situation here and requiring a trans to use a unisex private bathroom is the best compromise here.

**Kanluwen**

Frazzled wrote:
whembly wrote:
Until we have that 'Starship Trooper Shower' scene as culturally accepted (every young boy's wet dream)...

This will always be an issue.

Seems to me that the gender-neutral bathroom is the best solution.

Which was available.

To an extent, a question that has to be asked is whether or not the facilities would be up to code--or if it's just a case of taking a gym teacher's private bathroom and slapping "gender neutral" on it.

As well there's an issue of what could be considered a form of segregation--"You say you're not a boy, but you're not a girl either so go shuffle off to this 'private' bathroom".

**Crablezworth**

From my perspective, if gender reassignment has taken place and the individual resembles the female sex, seems fine. If somone is willing to undergo that transformation I 100% support them.

It's the other silly crap that I find exhausting. the third gender stuff, its murkier water, harder to tell if people are sincere or takin a piss. I really do think if we get to the point that all some hormone addled teen has to do is declare themselves gender fluid to get a peek at the opposite sex's naughty bits, we're in for either a bad time or at the very least a bad adam sandler comedy.

**dogma**

whembly wrote:

Don't you think that these girls have a right to 'bodily privacy'?

That's an interesting question, given that we are presumably discussing group facilities. Should all students be granted access to individual facilities?

**Frazzled**

o an extent, a question that has to be asked is whether or not the facilities would be up to code--or if it's just a case of taking a gym teacher's private bathroom and slapping "gender neutral" on it.

As well there's an issue of what could be considered a form of segregation--"You say you're not a boy, but you're not a girl either so go shuffle off to this 'private' bathroom".

Indeed. Its a hard situation all around. Imagine being the principal...

**Kanluwen**

Frazzled wrote:
Indeed. Its a hard situation all around.

BOOM! PHRASING!

**Polonius**

Crablezworth wrote:
Do you see any potential issue with someone declaring themselves gender fluid and using either facility at will?

Yes, because any allowance that includes the words "at will" is going to be a nightmare.

**Crablezworth**

Kanluwen wrote:

As well there's an issue of what could be considered a form of segregation--"You say you're not a boy, but you're not a girl either so go shuffle off to this 'private' bathroom".

We already segregate by gender, creating a third gender shouldn't make some more equal than others. Declaring myself a potato shouldn't allow me to change in the kitchen in addition to either lockeroom.

**Kanluwen**

Crablezworth wrote:
From my perspective, if gender reassignment has taken place and the individual resembles the female sex, seems fine. If somone is willing to undergo that transformation I 100% support them.

It's the other silly crap that I find exhausting. the third gender stuff, its murkier water, harder to tell if people are sincere or takin a piss. I really do think if we get to the point that all some hormone addled teen has to do is declare themselves gender fluid to get a peek at the opposite sex's naughty bits, we're in for either a bad time or at the very least a bad adam sandler comedy.

This is, IMO, the best stance to take on the situation.

The concept of the "third gender" is one that is still a bit "under construction" in Western society. It's difficult to tell if/when someone is serious, but I do think a measure of rational thought should be made---I can't envision someone seriously trying to play this as a way to get to see some boob in high school.

**Frazzled**

Kanluwen wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Indeed. Its a hard situation all around.

BOOM! PHRASING!

**Crablezworth**

Polonius wrote:
Crablezworth wrote:
Do you see any potential issue with someone declaring themselves gender fluid and using either facility at will?

Yes, because any allowance that includes the words "at will" is going to be a nightmare.

Agreed. But there are those who identify as such or as "gender queer" which is by definition amorphous.

**nkelsch**

Crablezworth wrote:

It's the other silly crap that I find exhausting. the third gender stuff, its murkier water, harder to tell if people are sincere or takin a piss. I really do think if we get to the point that all some hormone addled teen has to do is declare themselves gender fluid to get a peek at the opposite sex's naughty bits, we're in for either a bad time or at the very least a bad adam sandler comedy.

The same arguments of 'what if' scenarios which will never happen are the same reason people discriminated against AIDS patients too. To basically treat all transgender people as perverts and rapists as default is insane, when the actual chances of a pervert or rapist abusing transgender legislation is virtually node.

Lots of states have been doing it for years... We haven't had outbreaks of people pretending to be transgender to watch people gak.

**Polonius**

Frazzled wrote:

Polonius wrote:
whembly wrote:
I realize that trans issues a big thing now... but, where's the consideration for these other girls?

The question is, and I'm not being rhetorical, "how are they harmed?"

And I'm not sure. I've never been a high school girl, and I'm not sure to what extent they are harmed by this.

How are they not harmed. There are separate facilities for a reason. Like it or not he's still a bio he. Fix that and I can't see an issue.

That's not good enough. How, specifically, is a girl harmed by having a biologically male, but female identifying, individual in her locker room? I get that she might see a penis, but is that harmful?

The flip side is asking what harm there is in having a trans individual use a third, individual room, assuming it's properly constructed. (locker rooms tend to have showers)

Toss in the modern reality of homosexual students, and I'm curious what the harm is.