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 Xenomancers wrote:
What about the ones that are faking being transgender? It's also a great strategy - appear to be discreet - but inside - enjoying the view legally.

Lesbians can do that too. Why do you care?

 Ashiraya wrote:
They are probably together with the lightning-destroyed aircraft and the other massively blown-out-of-proportion issues.

You obviously were never a, and don't know any, horny teenage boy.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Are we concerned now that the transgender student might be sexually aroused by being around members of the gender opposite their birth-gender?

Then what about lesbians in the girls' lockerroom? Gays in the boys'? It's not like one's preferences wait until you're 18+.

I don't think that was really the point so much as the fact that we don't want UNDERAGE children viewing the opposite genders genitalia, especially in a school environment.

Do you think nude Greek statues are offensive?

No I don't find them offensive, because they aren't trying to enter my daughters changing room/bath room and get naked in front of them. but thats a great useless argument to make.

Anyone think of this as a really scary weeping angels episode?

 Xenomancers wrote:
What about the ones that are faking being transgender? It's also a great strategy - appear to be discreet - but inside - enjoying the view legally.

Do you have any evidence that such a thing ever happens?

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
They are probably together with the lightning-destroyed aircraft and the other massively blown-out-of-proportion issues.

You obviously were never a, and don't know any, horny teenage boy.

None who have the subtlety and skill to convince people they are not out to peep, combined with the utter idiocy of attempting it.

Switching locker rooms is typically a latter stage in the transition, and for good reason due to the conflict risk.

 Polonius wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
What about the ones that are faking being transgender? It's also a great strategy - appear to be discreet - but inside - enjoying the view legally.

Do you have any evidence that such a thing ever happens?

If we continue to have the burden of proof for being trans be zero, yeah, it will happen eventually.

Eventually there will be some horny teen boy who gets the idea as a way to get his rocks off.

And then he gets his rocks sued off for sexual harassment.

What's the problem?

 Ashiraya wrote:
And then he gets his rocks sued off for sexual harassment.

What's the problem?

How do you tell the difference? How is it different to the girls around the subject of this discussion?

Because it is not that difficult to notice when someone is there to stare at your body rather than changing clothes as quickly as possible?

 Ashiraya wrote:
And then he gets his rocks sued off for sexual harassment.

What's the problem?

You assume he'll get caught. Teens are a little more clever than you give them credit. Not that many aren't klutzes, but not all of them. Not the ones that I see hatching this type of plan.

And really, all this does is make this type of harassment easier. We shouldn't be doing that.

The simply solution is to use the bathroom/locker room assigned to your biology OR a gender neutral bathroom/locker room. Which I may add was provided but the student didn't accept that.

 Lt. Coldfire wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

There is a cultural difference here though. In europe there are unisex bathrooms and people pee in the streets in public urinals. The united states is different. In the US people are parinoid about the opposite sex seeing their junk and there is nothing wrong with that,

I have never seen a street urinal in my life.

Because everyone is either a woman or transgender and needs to sit down? Zing!

I believe the street urinal thing is big in the UK, primarily. People in the US get confused on Europe vs. all the countries inside of Europe.

That is absolutely true as all British men have resplendent penises and require large urinals.

IIRC, this was mentioned before, but would showering even factor into it? We never showered at my school (no inclanation or reason, besides you only have 4 min between classes). And you don't take your underwear off when changing for gym, so there's no nudity consern. At most they'd see a bulge but, trust me, they've seen far more than that at that age.

I would imagine that someone staring at anyone in a sexual way in a locker room will be caught the same way they are already caught regardless of gender.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
IIRC, this was mentioned before, but would showering even factor into it? We never showered at my school (no inclanation or reason, besides you only have 4 min between classes). And you don't take your underwear off when changing for gym, so there's no nudity consern. At most they'd see a bulge but, trust me, they've seen far more than that at that age.

I would say
1. You are a distinct minority.
2. Are you a girl? By necessity that have to be more hygienic than us bipedal apes. RR RR!

 d-usa wrote:
I would imagine that someone staring at anyone in a sexual way in a locker room will be caught the same way they are already caught regardless of gender.

Are we pretending video cameras don't exist? They're not exactly bulky anymore.

Girls can operate video cameras these days, because the controls have been massively simplified compared to the days when only people possessing Y chromosomes had the intellectual capacity to operate them.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
I would imagine that someone staring at anyone in a sexual way in a locker room will be caught the same way they are already caught regardless of gender.

Are we pretending video cameras don't exist? They're not exactly bulky anymore.

And every locker room I have changed in during the last decade already has rules against cell phones and people who record other people will be caught the same way they are already caught?

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Girls can operate video cameras these days, because the controls have been massively simplified compared to the days when only people possessing Y chromosomes had the intellectual capacity to operate them.

This is still questionable.

 d-usa wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
I would imagine that someone staring at anyone in a sexual way in a locker room will be caught the same way they are already caught regardless of gender.

Are we pretending video cameras don't exist? They're not exactly bulky anymore.

And every locker room I have changed in during the last decade already has rules against cell phones and people who record other people will be caught the same way they are already caught?

"We don't need to worry about criminals. They'll get caught!"

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Girls can operate video cameras these days, because the controls have been massively simplified compared to the days when only people possessing Y chromosomes had the intellectual capacity to operate them.

I know right. Mine operate them with only minimal guidance from nearby males. They've been trained well and appeared imbued with renewed spirit, which they can then channel into better baking habits.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
I would imagine that someone staring at anyone in a sexual way in a locker room will be caught the same way they are already caught regardless of gender.

Are we pretending video cameras don't exist? They're not exactly bulky anymore.

And every locker room I have changed in during the last decade already has rules against cell phones and people who record other people will be caught the same way they are already caught?

"We don't need to worry about criminals. They'll get caught!"

They will. And unless you are going to argue for private bathrooms and locker rooms for everyone it is silly to pretending that someone posing as a transgender person could lead to some sort of unique problem with someone staring at you or recording you. Maybe I have too little faith in humanity but it would probably be easier for a guy to spend less money to have a girl record in her locker room than it would be to buy a wig and pretend he is transgender.

All of your unique problems are already against the law.

Honestly, gender-neutral bathrooms and changing/locker rooms are probably the best idea. On the other hand, reasonable solutions like this cost money, so roll on the gakky situations!

For all of the people suggesting that the gender neutral bathroom would be an acceptable compromise, how on earth would that not be interpreted by the individual in question as a slap in the face, and proof that nobody really believes their identity.

No trans individual I have ever met flaunts their genitalia. Most go to lengths to hide it, because of the whole dysphoria thing.

If you are that worried about your daughters seeing a penis, consider suggesting to them that they do not stare at the transgirl's genitals. Then, if they do have a look, its their problem, not the transgirl's.

Crystal-Maze wrote:
For all of the people suggesting that the gender neutral bathroom would be an acceptable compromise, how on earth would that not be interpreted by the individual in question as a slap in the face, and proof that nobody really believes their identity.

No trans individual I have ever met flaunts their genitalia. Most go to lengths to hide it, because of the whole dysphoria thing.

If you are that worried about your daughters seeing a penis, consider suggesting to them that they do not stare at the transgirl's genitals. Then, if they do have a look, its their problem, not the transgirl's.

If you're replying to me, I was suggesting gender-neutral stuff for everyone, then you don't have to worry about seeing anyone else's stuff, regardless of identity/sexuality.

 -Shrike- wrote:

Crystal-Maze wrote:
For all of the people suggesting that the gender neutral bathroom would be an acceptable compromise, how on earth would that not be interpreted by the individual in question as a slap in the face, and proof that nobody really believes their identity.

No trans individual I have ever met flaunts their genitalia. Most go to lengths to hide it, because of the whole dysphoria thing.

If you are that worried about your daughters seeing a penis, consider suggesting to them that they do not stare at the transgirl's genitals. Then, if they do have a look, its their problem, not the transgirl's.

If you're replying to me, I was suggesting gender-neutral stuff for everyone, then you don't have to worry about seeing anyone else's stuff, regardless of identity/sexuality.

Naa, not you - it was more Whembly's stance on the matter I was getting at there.

I understand you're angry, but that doesn't give you leave to be rude

 Xenomancers wrote:
What about the ones that are faking being transgender? It's also a great strategy - appear to be discreet - but inside - enjoying the view legally.

Outside of outdated sitcoms, this is not a thing.

X-Ray specs you can order from the back of comic books don't allow you to perv on the girls either.

 agnosto wrote:

Crystal-Maze wrote:

If you are that worried about your daughters seeing a penis, consider suggesting to them that they do not stare at the transgirl's genitals. Then, if they do have a look, its their problem, not the transgirl's.

Edited for rudeness.

That is some extreme extrapolation you've got going on there, and I'm not sure that I can follow your logic on the link

My world is constantly made a complicated and frustrating place by the attitudes of some cisgender people when it comes to trans rights. I'm starting my PhD on the subject in just under a month's time, but on a day to day basis most of these issues also affect me in a distinctly personal way.

Edited for cleanliness, motyak

"My world is constantly made a complicated and frustrating place by the attitudes of some cisgender people when it comes to trans rights. "

That screams bigoted statement itself. Unless someone wants to be called "cisgender" you should afford them the same respect you yourself want. Take it from an old breeder. Instead of a PHD on this subject, have you considered getting a real job?

 -Shrike- wrote:
Honestly, gender-neutral bathrooms and changing/locker rooms are probably the best idea. On the other hand, reasonable solutions like this cost money, so roll on the gakky situations!

Just have unisex toilets / locker rooms everywhere. Merge female / male toilets and have one for both genders. Have cabins for people afraid / offended by it.

We got unisex restrooms in our whole company for years, never had any problems with it.