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the_scotsman wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
I don't think anything beats out the eight ounces of cold diarrhea in a six ounce Dixie cup that is Hellions.

Celestians.

They're Battle Sisters, but with a worse Act of Faith, an extra (WS3 S3 I3) attack, and costing 3 points more per model.

Wait, am I missing something here? Don't celestians have jump packs? Usually you can expect to pay a wee bit more per model for double the movement.

And looking at the rules again, I can see how Corpuscarii might be usable but I'm standing by the fulgurites. I cannot see a way that a T3 5++ FNP unit could ever get across the table, and how they could ever live long enough to get that 3++. Yes, you get one turn of stealth/shroud. Yes, you could turn off the shooting power of the rest of your army to give them a half decent round of melee (if they don't get fethed up by some I3+ opponent)

If they had a readily available OT transport that wasn't 250 points? Totally, they'd be around the level of Ork Nobz-a usable glass cannon. But they don't, and every argument for them starts with the assumption that they A) get to melee and B) survive their opponents first swing (unless they're fighting tau).

Seraphim have Jumppacks, Celestians walk.

And they can get to melee. Your opponent is forced to fire on a unit that may be a problem or a unit that is a problem. All of your Battle Servitors are tearing holes in his army and if the Fulgerites get in to melee they can tear them up too. They make a good Distraction Carnifex. Also they work well with an Invisibility Psyker (who doesnt)

Im not saying they are an Auto include, but they are definitely not the worst

I think that what the designers INTENDED with Fulgarites (not saying that they succeeded) is to have them behind the Breachers, who would be, you know, breaching, and providing a cover save (which would be 2+ with Shroudpsalm) as they advance in the course of said breaching, then mving out from behind them to attack. And they will do quite a bit of damage in combat (potentially S8 attacks that ID, or 3 S4 hits per Fulgarite -- that's up to 60 there for a full squad)

Now I have not actually tried them out and am interested in hearing what those who have have to say.

BTW you get TWO turns of stealth/shrouded (or any other canticle) with the Mechanics detachment.

The fact of the matter is that all of the units people have mentioned so far are superior to Fulgurite Electropriests on a strictly unit-to-unit comparison.

Chaos Cultists and Grots are cheaper, and can shoot them to death.

Mandrakes are cheaper, will kill them at range with their Baleblast, and will beat them in CC.

Hellions are cheaper, can shoot them to death, and with Combat Drugs will beat them in CC.

Flayed Ones in a Decurion are cheaper and are durable enough to survive the initial charge and easily beat them in CC.

Vespid are one point more expensive, but have a better armour save, and a gun that is actually threatening.

Celestians are cheaper, have an armour save worth a damn, and could probably beat them in CC.

Sisters Repentia are...actually quite comparable, but an eviscerator is more useful against vehicles. CC results depend on who got the charge.

In addition, with the exception of Grots and Cultists, all of these other units have a "delivery system"; Hellions and Vespid are jump infantry, Mandrakes and Flayed Ones can infiltrate, and Celestians and Repentia can buy a metal box for extra speed and survivability. Fulgurite Electropriests are reliant on allies for transports, and are stuck moving six inches a turn towards the enemy at maximum.

I stand by my choice for the worst unit in the game.

 TheNewBlood wrote:
The fact of the matter is that all of the units people have mentioned so far are superior to Fulgurite Electropriests on a strictly unit-to-unit comparison.

Chaos Cultists and Grots are cheaper, and can shoot them to death.

Mandrakes are cheaper, will kill them at range with their Baleblast, and will beat them in CC.

Hellions are cheaper, can shoot them to death, and with Combat Drugs will beat them in CC.

Flayed Ones in a Decurion are cheaper and are durable enough to survive the initial charge and easily beat them in CC.

Vespid are one point more expensive, but have a better armour save, and a gun that is actually threatening.

Celestians are cheaper, have an armour save worth a damn, and could probably beat them in CC.

Sisters Repentia are...actually quite comparable, but an eviscerator is more useful against vehicles. CC results depend on who got the charge.

In addition, with the exception of Grots and Cultists, all of these other units have a "delivery system"; Hellions and Vespid are jump infantry, Mandrakes and Flayed Ones can infiltrate, and Celestians and Repentia can buy a metal box for extra speed and survivability. Fulgurite Electropriests are reliant on allies for transports, and are stuck moving six inches a turn towards the enemy at maximum.

I stand by my choice for the worst unit in the game.

And Fulgurites both generate and benefit from Canticles, which you have not mentioned...

(Of course Flayed Ones will beat them, Flayed Ones are possibly the game's deadliest unit in CC. I'm a little baffled that they're on a "worst units" list -- Flayed Ones are incredible.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just out of curiousity I'll do the math for 13 Fulgurites vs. 18 Decurion Flayed Ones (equal points values) assuming the Fulgies get the charge and assuming an 8+ level Electrocutioner canticle.

13 Fulgurites charge!

13 Hammer of Wrath attacks. 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/8 x 13 = 1 5/8; round up to 2. 2 Flayes Ones "die."; 16 left

13 x 3 = 39 S4 Electrocutioner hits. These do the same damage as the HoW. 1/8 x 39 = 39/8 = just about 5. 5 Flayed Ones "die." 11 left.

Now the Fulgurites actually swing. Because of Zealot they reroll misses. They ID on a 6, which complicates matters. 39 attacks.

3/4 x 1/6 x 2/3 = 1/12 x 39 = 39/12 = about 3.
+
3/4 x 1/2 x 1/2 = 3/16 x 39 = 117/16 = about 7

Total about 10 Flayed Ones "die."

Leaving 1 left.

Nope, Fulgurites actual beat Decurion Flayed Ones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Albeit I did this very quickly, math might be off. ?

Alcibiades wrote:

And Fulgurites both generate and benefit from Canticles, which you have not mentioned...

(Of course Flayed Ones will beat them, Flayed Ones are possibly the game's deadliest unit in CC. I'm a little baffled that they're on a "worst units" list -- Flayed Ones are incredible.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just out of curiousity I'll do the math for 13 Fulgurites vs. 18 Decurion Flayed Ones (equal points values) assuming the Fulgies get the charge and assuming an 8+ level Electrocutioner canticle.

13 Fulgurites charge!

13 Hammer of Wrath attacks. 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/8 x 13 = 1 5/8; round up to 2. 2 Flayes Ones "die."; 16 left

13 x 3 = 39 S4 Electrocutioner hits. These do the same damage as the HoW. 1/8 x 39 = 39/8 = just about 5. 5 Flayed Ones "die." 11 left.

Now the Fulgurites actually swing. Because of Zealot they reroll misses. They ID on a 6, which complicates matters. 39 attacks.

3/4 x 1/6 x 2/3 = 1/12 x 39 = 39/12 = about 3.
+
3/4 x 1/2 x 1/2 = 3/16 x 39 = 117/16 = about 7

Total about 10 Flayed Ones "die."

Leaving 1 left.

Nope, Fulgurites actual beat Decurion Flayed Ones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Albeit I did this very quickly, math might be off. ?

I did not include Canticles, as I was going on a strictly single unit vs. single unit basis. Chaos Cultists generate and can benefit from Blood Tithe points, but that doesn't make them good units. It's telling that the Slaughtercult lets you instakill them if they break.

If, like in my arguments, we only go on an unit-by-unit basis you cannot include the Canticles. I also did not include any Blood Tithe, Power From Pain, or Acts of Faith in my arguments either.

Your mathhammer, aside from being terribly formatted (you are supposed to include what the rolls are, not leave the reader to interpret) has two main problems:

1. Rounding. Mathhammer gives you the exact statistical average of what will happen. Rounding throws all of this out the window; if you must round, you do it for the final product i.e. determining combat resolution.

2. Flayed ones are WS4. This drastically cuts how many hits they end up taking, even with Zealot.

Revise the mathhammer, get rid of the Canticles, and I can tell you that a lot more Flayed Ones will live to see their Initiative step, whereupon the Fulgurite Electropriests are slaughtered wholesale.

You can conceivably make them work by putting them in an allied Land Raider and attaching an allied character to buff them. But the same can be done for Repentia, and that doesn't make them any better as a unit either. All those points could have been spent on better units in a better army build.

As a side note, Flayed Ones are highly overrated as a unit. They can mulch basic infantry, sure, but dedicated CC units? All them have going for them then is their durability in surviving to their Inititive step. Death Company eat these guys for breakfast.

Why should we exclude Canticles from the evaluation of this unit?

 j31c3n wrote:
Why should we exclude Canticles from the evaluation of this unit?

Why, if you manage to get to Khorne's favorite number for Canticles, would you spend it on buffing the Electromancers instead of giving everyone in the army Stealth/Shrouded or re-rolling to hit when shooting?

Rough riders are pretty fine in a min unit with a melta bomb sarge. They can do decent damage with their lances and they can hunt stand-alone vehicles and even finish off MC, mind you.

Electropriests don't look impressive but they're far from the bottom of the pile. They're somewhere around ogryn level. Actually not bad but there's better stuff.

The bottom of the pile is possessed and killa kanz imo.

My answer is...

The AM Valkyrie.

It's a flyer, that can't reasonably fight flyers. Solo, you can speedily drop off one unit of Veterans someplace... for 3.5 times the cost of an allied Pod. And those Vets are sitting ducks, 'cause those 5 Hellions are going to spank them in CC. Once everyone's dropped off, you basically have a flying Chimera that costs twice as much. Take 3? Well, you could have bought your whole army Drop Pods instead, even paying a tax for a unit of BA Scouts, or something.

So in terms of a unit that has ABSOLUTELY no reasonable purpose in 7th edition, the Valkyrie is my vote for worst unit. Hellions could at least hop around, scoring objectives... or something.

 Grimmor wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
OP, you are missing one thing: Rough Riders.

By and large the worst unit in the game, costing over twice the cost of a Guardsman with the same stats, only a laspistol as a weapon and a one use hunting lance CCW. And no, they do not have instant death or outflank or infiltrate or scout or deepstrike or any other rule which might help them get close.

Its so sad, cuz Rough Riders look cool, but they are only good as a suicide unit who may break a vehicle. Seriously the One Use hunting lance is just dumb.

It was always dumb. The inspiration comes a WWII myth about Polish troops attacking tanks with lances (never happened, but the story is still in circulation).

Now mounted recon troops could be good for the IG, give them scout, shotguns and some kind of artillery spotter ability and they'd be useful.

Instead we get silly shaped charge lances.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Hellions are cheaper, can shoot them to death, and with Combat Drugs will beat them in CC.

If you're not including Canticle, then you can't include combat drugs - especially since the DE player has no control over them.

And, Hellions most certainly won't beat equal points of Electro Priests in combat. Even if they get the charge, the priests still get the better of them (11 Hellions vs 8 priests results in 3 dead priests and 6 dead hellions). So, they end up with equal numbers, and it only gets worse for the Hellions from there (and that's assuming they get cut down).

Were not looking at usefulness in some stupid vacuum. Yes, the priests get canticles. Yes, the Cultists can be taken with KDK and Helcult and whatever formations. Yes, grots' 35 point price tag and Obsec is a factor.

The fact remains that every use the Fulgurites have is counter to what the army wants to do, and they're an awkward unit to try and support. If you want tons of canticle points, convo gives you not one, but SIX sub-100 point units with canticles in addition to its other absurd benefits. So you have to take a knight, so what? Who's ever complained about a knight, and guess what-IT GETS CANTICLES TOO. You're saying a knight that can re-roll hits, or get stealth/shrouded and gets free upgrades is somehow a tax?

And even if you do decide to go purely cult mech, the fulgurites are basically anti-synergy. Moving up, yes, you want Shroudpsalm to keep from dying. But when you close, a cult mech army really really wants to turn on rerolls to hit to get those phosphor shots out so the Punchbots can charge, to make the breachers' shots count, and instead you are gonna make everyone sit on BS3 to make your one or two units of fulgurites not suck in melee?

Are they supposed to be a distraction Carnifex? In an army that contains Kastellans and Breachers? A glass cannon, with no transport and 6" move? A cheap filler unit, at 18 PPM?

The overall gist of these type of threads always boils down to the same thing: if you're not spending your points on the most efficient shooting units or something that may grant invis, you're doing it wrong. It's a statement so true, that GW came up with formations to force us to purchase a few models we otherwise would not, and created an entire new game that got rid of points altogether.

I'm sure they get tired of making beautiful models that never sell because we, the community, deem them to be 2pts per model too expensive.

If only they also controlled the rules for said models.

 Voidwraith wrote:
The overall gist of these type of threads always boils down to the same thing: if you're not spending your points on the most efficient shooting units or something that may grant invis, you're doing it wrong. It's a statement so true, that GW came up with formations to force us to purchase a few models we otherwise would not, and created an entire new game that got rid of points altogether.

I'm sure they get tired of making beautiful models that never sell because we, the community, deem them to be 2pts per model too expensive.

That's not the gist of this thread at all. The gist of it is that Fulgurites are so awful, and so without support or synergy from the rest of the list, that to be something you would actually want to field they would need to be absurdly undercosted to the point they would be ridiculous. They just don't fit with the army, which is particularly important in a list that relies on army wide buffs.

The other melee threats of Cult Mech are either 50% melee, 50% ranged (Breachers) or use a ranged attack to help them engage on the enemy (Kastellans). This means on the turn you want to charge, you can turn on your shooting buffs, that helps your shooting units and then also directly helps your melee units too-everyone benefits and then you get solid units in assault. If you included Electropriests, you have to use a buff just for them to make them passable, and leave your shooting core suffering with BS3. Fulgurites aren't unusable because they're "two points too expensive" they're so bad they actively make your whole list worse


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, it's worth pointing out that the "power game min max" list of AdMech is one of nearly everything in both codexes, and nothing in either grants Invis. By your definition, playing them at all is doing it wrong.

 Psienesis wrote:
They're stronger than Sisters Repentia with a better Save.

No. Repentia are amazing if they get into combat, and these guys are not. I've never not wiped out the first squad I charged with them, I1 or no.

Granted, with the loss of FNP and the lack of assault transports, they basically need an allied Land Raiser to get them there - but once they are there they rip it up.

-D

You guys are forgetting dark eldar wyches! They don't have an invul outside of combat! Yes they can take a vehicle, but they're are easily to penetrate and explode!

DirtyDeeds wrote:
You guys are forgetting dark eldar wyches! They don't have an invul outside of combat! Yes they can take a vehicle, but they're are easily to penetrate and explode!

They also don't hit anywhere near as hard as the priests.

Anyone afraid of a few S3 melee attacks?

 vipoid wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
You guys are forgetting dark eldar wyches! They don't have an invul outside of combat! Yes they can take a vehicle, but they're are easily to penetrate and explode!

They also don't hit anywhere near as hard as the priests.

Anyone afraid of a few S3 melee attacks?

With Power From Pain and Combat Drugs, Wyches can hit hard enough to tarpit or kill most units. The problem is that they have no survivability outside of CC whatsoever.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

With Power From Pain and Combat Drugs, Wyches can hit hard enough to tarpit or kill most units. The problem is that they have no survivability outside of CC whatsoever.

Power from pain gets them no extra offence until turn 4.

You seem to have really optimistic ideas about how useful combat drugs are.
+1WS. Whoop.
+1I. Will anyone notice?
+1A. If I want more useless S3 attacks, I'll take bloodbrides. But I don't, so I won't.
+1Ld. Wow, I bet my opponent is trembling with fear now.

My money is on nurglings.
Hopeless at just about everything in the game.

Slow, no ranged attacks, weak, poor save and not even a decent tarpit.

Rough Riders. useless save that is ignored by most basic weapons, useless stat line, only ranged weapon is a laspistol, only melee weapon is a one use boomstick and no rules to help them get to CC in the first place. And for this privilege you pay over twice the cost of a Guardsman.

 vipoid wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:

With Power From Pain and Combat Drugs, Wyches can hit hard enough to tarpit or kill most units. The problem is that they have no survivability outside of CC whatsoever.

Power from pain gets them no extra offence until turn 4.

You seem to have really optimistic ideas about how useful combat drugs are.
+1WS. Whoop.
+1I. Will anyone notice?
+1A. If I want more useless S3 attacks, I'll take bloodbrides. But I don't, so I won't.
+1Ld. Wow, I bet my opponent is trembling with fear now.

+1 WS means Wyches hit most units on 3s instead of 4s.
+1 Initiative...okay, not so useful on an I6 model.
+1 Attack means Wyches pump out 4 attacks on the charge. S3 can add up though sheer weight of numbers.
+1 Strength gets rid of their S3 handicap
+1 Toughness means they are suddenly more durable and less likely to have their FnP negated
+1 Leadership matters for combat resolution and morale checks from overwatch.

That's 1 out of 6 that doesn't help. I'm not saying that Wyches are an amazing unit; they aren't killy enough with just basic CCWs, and they have no durability outside of the assault phase. But there are much worse units in the game. Like Fulgurite Electropriests.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Voidwraith wrote:
The overall gist of these type of threads always boils down to the same thing: if you're not spending your points on the most efficient shooting units or something that may grant invis, you're doing it wrong. It's a statement so true, that GW came up with formations to force us to purchase a few models we otherwise would not, and created an entire new game that got rid of points altogether.

I'm sure they get tired of making beautiful models that never sell because we, the community, deem them to be 2pts per model too expensive.

That's not the gist of this thread at all. The gist of it is that Fulgurites are so awful, and so without support or synergy from the rest of the list, that to be something you would actually want to field they would need to be absurdly undercosted to the point they would be ridiculous. They just don't fit with the army, which is particularly important in a list that relies on army wide buffs.

The other melee threats of Cult Mech are either 50% melee, 50% ranged (Breachers) or use a ranged attack to help them engage on the enemy (Kastellans). This means on the turn you want to charge, you can turn on your shooting buffs, that helps your shooting units and then also directly helps your melee units too-everyone benefits and then you get solid units in assault. If you included Electropriests, you have to use a buff just for them to make them passable, and leave your shooting core suffering with BS3. Fulgurites aren't unusable because they're "two points too expensive" they're so bad they actively make your whole list worse


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, it's worth pointing out that the "power game min max" list of AdMech is one of nearly everything in both codexes, and nothing in either grants Invis. By your definition, playing them at all is doing it wrong.

You're right. I made a general statement about "how good are X" and "how bad are X" threads. I should have realized things would be taken super literally.

But back on topic. This thread is about bashing a unit that almost no one runs. Even the people who can see some use for Fulgurite Electropriests have pointed out they're not a great unit. The Fulgurite Electropriest Love-fest that never started must stop immediately.

The most interesting thing to come out of this thread may be that some people, for some crazy ridiculous reason, refuse to look at the army-wide special rules or other buffs that may or may not apply to the unit in question when deciding how useful it is. I mean, we all think Riptides are good, right? Well...you can ignore them for the most part, but they're super scary at times with ignores cover...except they need something else in the army to provide the ignores cover. Do people not talk about ignores cover being an issue when dealing with Riptides? I know markerlight support along with the Riptide is what scared the hell out of my Tyranids and their 2+ cover save. I think you see where I'm going here.

 Voidwraith wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Voidwraith wrote:
The overall gist of these type of threads always boils down to the same thing: if you're not spending your points on the most efficient shooting units or something that may grant invis, you're doing it wrong. It's a statement so true, that GW came up with formations to force us to purchase a few models we otherwise would not, and created an entire new game that got rid of points altogether.

I'm sure they get tired of making beautiful models that never sell because we, the community, deem them to be 2pts per model too expensive.

That's not the gist of this thread at all. The gist of it is that Fulgurites are so awful, and so without support or synergy from the rest of the list, that to be something you would actually want to field they would need to be absurdly undercosted to the point they would be ridiculous. They just don't fit with the army, which is particularly important in a list that relies on army wide buffs.

The other melee threats of Cult Mech are either 50% melee, 50% ranged (Breachers) or use a ranged attack to help them engage on the enemy (Kastellans). This means on the turn you want to charge, you can turn on your shooting buffs, that helps your shooting units and then also directly helps your melee units too-everyone benefits and then you get solid units in assault. If you included Electropriests, you have to use a buff just for them to make them passable, and leave your shooting core suffering with BS3. Fulgurites aren't unusable because they're "two points too expensive" they're so bad they actively make your whole list worse


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, it's worth pointing out that the "power game min max" list of AdMech is one of nearly everything in both codexes, and nothing in either grants Invis. By your definition, playing them at all is doing it wrong.

You're right. I made a general statement about "how good are X" and "how bad are X" threads. I should have realized things would be taken super literally.

But back on topic. This thread is about bashing a unit that almost no one runs. Even the people who can see some use for Fulgurite Electropriests have pointed out they're not a great unit. The Fulgurite Electropriest Love-fest that never started must stop immediately.

The most interesting thing to come out of this thread may be that some people, for some crazy ridiculous reason, refuse to look at the army-wide special rules or other buffs that may or may not apply to the unit in question when deciding how useful it is. I mean, we all think Riptides are good, right? Well...you can ignore them for the most part, but they're super scary at times with ignores cover...except they need something else in the army to provide the ignores cover. Do people not talk about ignores cover being an issue when dealing with Riptides? I know markerlight support along with the Riptide is what scared the hell out of my Tyranids and their 2+ cover save. I think you see where I'm going here.

You do have to take army-wide rules into account. that you be like talking about Space Marines with no reference to chapter tactics. The problem is that Canticles of the Omnissiah is a very unusual rule i nits scaling mechanic. The Electropriests are good at their own max-level canticle, sure, but it requires choosing a Canticle that won't benefit the rest of your army much. That's where people are getting the "worst unit in the game" tag from. They have mediocre stats, require allies to be used effectively, and penalize your entire army just for running them.

I mostly made the thread because I'm amused, the title of "worst unit in the game" is just a funny little oddity. It is pretty funny that people think the overall power level of the game is somehow going up. The truth of it is, GW is just steadily getting worse at designing rules. People see the craziest stuff they put out, but for every Wraithknight there's an Electropriest, and for every Convocation there's a Skiitari Cohort. The game still functions on a casual level, with good communication and a lot of unspoken agreements between players, but the fact that people play this competitively is just bizarre to me.

the_scotsman wrote:
I mostly made the thread because I'm amused, the title of "worst unit in the game" is just a funny little oddity. It is pretty funny that people think the overall power level of the game is somehow going up. The truth of it is, GW is just steadily getting worse at designing rules. People see the craziest stuff they put out, but for every Wraithknight there's an Electropriest, and for every Convocation there's a Skiitari Cohort. The game still functions on a casual level, with good communication and a lot of unspoken agreements between players, but the fact that people play this competitively is just bizarre to me.

Some people find the competitive aspect fun and rewarding. Some people also find being physically hurt to be sexually arousing.

 ionusx wrote:
yes exactly, unlike say azreal who is genuinely worthless hes a lord of war that cant cc better than anyone really, he cant shoot better than any other marine can really, and he cant take a hit at all. any current mainstream hq can bypass his 2+ armor and kill him because he only has a 4++ and a 6+++ to save him

Yes, Azrael is not very good but he does not belong in contention for the worst unit in the game. The new book buffed his FnP save to a 5+, which is nice until you realize that he's been hit by a powerfist and instagibbed. I tend to think of him as a support character in that he gives whatever unit he's with a 4++. Good for any unit that you want to keep alive in spite of anti-tank weapons. All he would have needed to be truly great would have been AP2 on his weapon and Eternal Warrior.

Eternal Warrior is literally the best fix for Azrael. He's a support Chapter Master and relatively cheap, but he definitely needs the AP2 or Eternal Warrior.
That's more due to the ID mechanic though, which I think needs a major overhaul because having T5-6 or having Eternal Warrior has become too important with the power creep.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

+1 WS means Wyches hit most units on 3s instead of 4s. Which solves exactly none of their issues.
+1 Initiative...okay, not so useful on an I6 model. Agreed.
+1 Attack means Wyches pump out 4 attacks on the charge. S3 can add up though sheer weight of numbers. No, it doesn't. Adding more attacks makes negligible difference when you have no useful AP and 2/3 of your attacks fail to wound against T4. To put it in context, 10 wyches charge a unit of marines and all survive overwatch. Without this, they have 30 attacks and average 1.67 wounds. With it, they have 40 attacks and average 2.22 wounds. If you honestly think that improves their situation, then I really can't help you.
+1 Strength gets rid of their S3 handicap Agreed. Now they hit as hard as an assault marine.
+1 Toughness means they are suddenly more durable and less likely to have their FnP negated Hope you weren't planning on using them offensively...
+1 Leadership matters for combat resolution and morale checks from overwatch. Overwatch doesn't cause morale tests, and if they're taking morale tests in combat then they obviously suck at combat. This does not help them.

That's 1 out of 6 that doesn't help. No, it's 2/3. 5/6 if you want them to fulfil an offensive role. I'm not saying that Wyches are an amazing unit; they aren't killy enough with just basic CCWs, and they have no durability outside of the assault phase. But there are much worse units in the game. Like Fulgurite Electropriests. And I'm disagreeing. Electropriests are awful, but wyches are worse. Though I suspect we won't be agreeing on that anytime soon.