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I'm told that skyray gunships are amazing and better than hammerheads,
I don't understand why this is, can someone explain?

Because 6 S8 AP3 missiles, which can become Skyfire (and even ignore cover, if sufficient markerlights are expended), are more potent than 3 S10 AP1 non-Skyfire rail shots.
And the Sky Ray can remain as a markerlight platform

Networked Markerlights are very good, and because of the range of the Missiles, the Skyray never has to actually move. It can very nearly delete anything from the table in a single turn. A Flyrant, Stormraven, Fire Raptor and so on. Things that would have been very difficult to take care of.

Add in some Tetras and you have the ability to fire the Seekers indirectly.

I've been suffering against Skyrays for a few games. Haven't figured out a good way to kill them yet as Tyranids.

 Vector Strike wrote:
Because 6 S8 AP3 missiles, which can become Skyfire (and even ignore cover, if sufficient markerlights are expended), are more potent than 3 S10 AP1 non-Skyfire rail shots.
And the Sky Ray can remain as a markerlight platform

This. Skyrays also have TL SMS or a pair Drones that you can send on adventures. HH can buy Submunition rounds to increase their effectiveness, the Skyray just does more stuff. It is a more reliable marker light platform than pathfinders since it can move and not care about the weapon being heavy. It isn't an OP choice, but it does more for the army overall. I hope a new codex lets Tau players take them in a squad of 1-3.

If I see a Skyray on the table it's my First Blood. I always kill it first and fast and there are reasons for that. It is a great unit that I love to hate.

 doomdreamer wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
Because 6 S8 AP3 missiles, which can become Skyfire (and even ignore cover, if sufficient markerlights are expended), are more potent than 3 S10 AP1 non-Skyfire rail shots.
And the Sky Ray can remain as a markerlight platform

This. Skyrays also have TL SMS or a pair Drones that you can send on adventures. HH can buy Submunition rounds to increase their effectiveness, the Skyray just does more stuff. It is a more reliable marker light platform than pathfinders since it can move and not care about the weapon being heavy. It isn't an OP choice, but it does more for the army overall. I hope a new codex lets Tau players take them in a squad of 1-3.

You know that if they allow Skyray squadrons some jerk is going to take 9 of them. Of course, that means the rest of the army won't be too bad (i.e. no TripTide). I actually hope they buff the Hammerhead more than the Skyray, as I love the vehicle!

 doomdreamer wrote:
I hope a new codex lets Tau players take them in a squad of 1-3.

I'm fully expecting it. Eldar and Space Marines got theirs, tehre's no reason Tau won't get those as well... but as we know, GW is fickle!

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Networked Markerlights are very good, and because of the range of the Missiles, the Skyray never has to actually move. It can very nearly delete anything from the table in a single turn. A Flyrant, Stormraven, Fire Raptor and so on. Things that would have been very difficult to take care of.

Add in some Tetras and you have the ability to fire the Seekers indirectly.

I've been suffering against Skyrays for a few games. Haven't figured out a good way to kill them yet as Tyranids.

As a 5 Flyrant player who has a brother that runs Tau with at least 2 Skyrays per list, I've learned to play the LOS game with them. Yeah, he's probably going to get his SMS off almost 100% of the time when I get close enough to hurt something in his army (18" devourers). But at least he's not getting his Skyfire markerlights or his 6 missiles off. With Nova's Ruin heavy terrain setup. I can almost always kill a Skyray before the second one absolutely demolishes one of my Flyrants. It's a game with casualties. A necessary evil if you will. But he shouldn't be able to get his missiles off with proper terrain. Most tables don't play with enough imo.

Just remember it's more important to survive as long as you can vs Tau (especially since he's the one with the favorable matchup). It's important to know when to hold up, hide behind terrain, and forego your shooting a turn, if it means he doesn't get to unload an entire skyray into your flyrants.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 doomdreamer wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
Because 6 S8 AP3 missiles, which can become Skyfire (and even ignore cover, if sufficient markerlights are expended), are more potent than 3 S10 AP1 non-Skyfire rail shots.
And the Sky Ray can remain as a markerlight platform

This. Skyrays also have TL SMS or a pair Drones that you can send on adventures. HH can buy Submunition rounds to increase their effectiveness, the Skyray just does more stuff. It is a more reliable marker light platform than pathfinders since it can move and not care about the weapon being heavy. It isn't an OP choice, but it does more for the army overall. I hope a new codex lets Tau players take them in a squad of 1-3.

You know that if they allow Skyray squadrons some jerk is going to take 9 of them. Of course, that means the rest of the army won't be too bad (i.e. no TripTide). I actually hope they buff the Hammerhead more than the Skyray, as I love the vehicle!

50 - Etherial
54 - 6x Fire Warriors
54 - 6x Fire Warriors
190 - Riptide, IA, EWO
190 - Riptide, IA, EWO
190 - Riptide, IA, EWO
345 - 3x Skyrays
345 - 3x Skyrays
345 - 3x Skyrays

1763

Nope, can still spam both and fit them in 1850 (assuming points cost remain the same, which is unlikely).

That's also 18 BS4 ML's once all 54 seekers have blown their load, so you don't even have to give up ML support for the rapetides.

Honestly, I don't understand the fuss either.

The hammerhead are simply BAD, the fact the skyray is better is not a great achivement.

Yes, its 6 S8AP3 shots, potentially at BS5 ignores cover. but once, and only once. after that its an excessively expensive markerlight source.

Overall, its a decent alpha-strike unit, and a good anti-air solution, but not nearly as great as some people here claim it to be.

I think the beauty of the Skyray is what it can do and for it's price. It's dirt cheap for what it does. He almost always removes a model that cost more points and afterwards, its a Skyfire Markerlight boat. Something that the rest of Tau can take advantage of. Don't forget the TL SMS that's on all of them. It's really a steal for points.

 doomdreamer wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
Because 6 S8 AP3 missiles, which can become Skyfire (and even ignore cover, if sufficient markerlights are expended), are more potent than 3 S10 AP1 non-Skyfire rail shots.
And the Sky Ray can remain as a markerlight platform

This. Skyrays also have TL SMS or a pair Drones that you can send on adventures. HH can buy Submunition rounds to increase their effectiveness, the Skyray just does more stuff. It is a more reliable marker light platform than pathfinders since it can move and not care about the weapon being heavy. It isn't an OP choice, but it does more for the army overall. I hope a new codex lets Tau players take them in a squad of 1-3.

If it moves, only one of the ML is at full BS the other is snapshotting.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Honestly, I don't understand the fuss either.

The hammerhead are simply BAD, the fact the skyray is better is not a great achivement.

Yes, its 6 S8AP3 shots, potentially at BS5 ignores cover. but once, and only once. after that its an excessively expensive markerlight source.

Overall, its a decent alpha-strike unit, and a good anti-air solution, but not nearly as great as some people here claim it to be.

When you only need the alpha strike, sky rays are enough

But I agree that Missilesides are overall more damaging

I have one of each, hammerhead, ionhead and skyray, and i hope that the new codex will see to it that all three will be worth it again.

I would never field units of 3 though, i can play with vehicles with other armies, what i like about the Tau are the jet packs, so the drones (my favourite unit since Tau exist), crisis suits and stealth teams (these really need fixing).

A skyray is a swiss army knife. It is not OP in any particular role but it can fit into multiple roles at the same time:

> Skyfire markerlights (even networked).
> The magical number combo: Str 8, ap3, ignore cover. Does everything you need it to do: Hurts medium armor, goes through power armor, one-shots T4 models, can ignore bike saves, wounds T6 on a 2+. Str 8 ap3 is really the magic number that does practically everything in the game, and the added option to ignore cover saves makes it go over the top.
> Can fire out of LoS.
> Has great range.
> Can alpha strike by unloading all 6 missiles in a single turn. Obliterating an enemy threat turn 1 makes for an easier game, burst damage is always better than attrition.
> Skyfire missiles which are stronger than the normal skyfires (str 7 ap4) and ideal for ignoring flyrants' saves.
>Very durable objective holder, what with 13 front armor and 3+ cover save (disruption pods).
> Skimmer tank, can relocate pretty fast.
> Cheap points cost for what you get out of the deal.

Overall it is good vs air, good versus jinks, good source of markerlights, good for alpha strike, for removing power armor, wounding monsters, bikes, armor up to AV 12, good against enemy skimmers, good for hide and seek, good for JSJ tactics, pretty durable platform etc etc etc. And you get a free TL SMS to snipe venomthropes and scouts. And it costs pretty much nothing compared to other tanks around the game.

Honestly it is pretty easy to see how it is a good tank, it is difficult to see how it is not.

topaxygouroun i wrote:
A skyray is a swiss army knife. It is not OP in any particular role but it can fit into multiple roles at the same time:

> Skyfire markerlights (even networked).
> The magical number combo: Str 8, ap3, ignore cover. Does everything you need it to do: Hurts medium armor, goes through power armor, one-shots T4 models, can ignore bike saves, wounds T6 on a 2+. Str 8 ap3 is really the magic number that does practically everything in the game, and the added option to ignore cover saves makes it go over the top.
> Can fire out of LoS.
> Has great range.
> Can alpha strike by unloading all 6 missiles in a single turn. Obliterating an enemy threat turn 1 makes for an easier game, burst damage is always better than attrition.
> Skyfire missiles which are stronger than the normal skyfires (str 7 ap4) and ideal for ignoring flyrants' saves.
>Very durable objective holder, what with 13 front armor and 3+ cover save (disruption pods).
> Skimmer tank, can relocate pretty fast.
> Cheap points cost for what you get out of the deal.

Overall it is good vs air, good versus jinks, good source of markerlights, good for alpha strike, for removing power armor, wounding monsters, bikes, armor up to AV 12, good against enemy skimmers, good for hide and seek, good for JSJ tactics, pretty durable platform etc etc etc. And you get a free TL SMS to snipe venomthropes and scouts. And it costs pretty much nothing compared to other tanks around the game.

Honestly it is pretty easy to see how it is a good tank, it is difficult to see how it is not.

Very well said. Just wanted to add and clarify, they don't have ignore cover, they have 2 Networked Markerlights, which means if you hit with both of your Markerlights, you can ignore cover. That being said, most people run a pair of Skyrays to almost guarantee you get 2 outta of the 4 markerlights onto a Flyer/FMC target for all 6 of the missiles from the second Skyray. Of course, if you get "lucky" you can get ignore cover on both!

^ You can also expend marker light tokens to fire Seeker Missiles at BS5 with Ignores Cover that hits side armor.

**and doesn't limit the number of weapons a skyray may fire.

 BoomWolf wrote:

Yes, its 6 S8AP3 shots, potentially at BS5 ignores cover. but once, and only once. after that its an excessively expensive markerlight source.

To be fair, that's not exactly as bad as it sounds and gets better the shorter the game is.

Think of it this way, if the game goes three turns, it's had as many shots as two Broadsides with Heavy Rail Rifles, but with the benefit of being able to burst fire them all in one turn as opposed to a span of three turns. So while they're one time use only, they generally give you as much shooting potential as many other models, but in a much more concentrated time frame. The Skyray also has other benefits like being harder to kill, coming with Markerlights (though this balances out by the fewer missile pods), better range, and the all important Velocity Tracker.

Considering it's cheaper than a Hammer Head and will get more shots off in a game than a Hammer Head, I think the one time use thing can be over looked for the burst potential.

The issue is comparing to HRR broadsides, who are hilariously bad.


I don't say its bad, I say it overrated. its good, not great.

After all, when it comes to AP3 mid-high S firepower, the ionhead just outpreforms. it bursts less powerfully, but two shots, it usually catches up to the burst-and from that point he keeps going.
The only real edge of the skyray is its AA potential, who is nice and all, but due to the way flyers work in this game is highly problematic, as they will always have the first strike, most are decent at killing tanks and will require a jink, ruining the ray's aim.

A marker supported ionhead is more expensive, but far more devastating in the long run. and ionheads are not great either, nor are they getting any attention.

If you expect a short game, the skyray's burst will be invaluable. but when a longer game comes-the ionhead just pulls ahead. and some things like decurion, gladius and summoning just pull the game to longer runs.

The thing is, the comparison is only if you try to spread out the fire power and ignore the other advantages the Skyray has. The point of it wasn't to say it's good because it compares at the same points to those to mediocre things, but that if you ignore the myriad of advantages it has compared to those, it's still mediocre at worst.

Like you said, the AA potential it provides is very powerful, and on top of that it has amazing burst potential for other targets. Heck, it doesn't even need vision if you're willing to expand Markerlights to take down a target. So yes, the Ion Hammer might be better in shooting over the long run, but the Skyray will give you a lot more alpha strike potential, while also offering AA, and it costs less points.

Not to mention that the Skyray has two turns of Ion Hammer shooting, at a higher strength, longer range, that it can utilize in one turn, and still has markerlights and more built in.

The reason that the Ion Hammer isn't getting attention probably is because while it can better theoretically based on the numbers, in practice the Skyray is simply more powerful and cheaper. Even in a long game the impact that burst can have can easily result in a massive advantage, and that's not even mentioning the possibility of either dying early, which would make the Skyray better.

My point is that the two are comparable, and the ionhead is hardly amazing.

The skyfire portion is, while nice, not impressive in my eyes.
First, airforce these days are not nearly as common as they were in 6th, in fact I rarely see a jet lately.
Second is the problem of it being still, codex tau. the army with the least issues with flyer to begin with given skyfire broadsides, markerlight boosting snapshots, etc.

And I'm saying they're only comparable in terms of numbers, but in functionality one is significantly better than the other.

The skyfire isn't really for jets, it's more of an added perk for things like Flyrants, Flying Demon Princes, Remoras, and so forth. Though as a whole you're very focused on this one aspect that isn't the main selling point, but an added bonus.

The actual benefits of it that put it over the top of an Ion Hammer are:

1.) Strong alpha strike and burst potential. Six missiles in one turn at AP 3 and S8, than can be shot at BS5, Ignores Cover, no line of sight at a much greater range, is pretty much going to kill anything that it targets. You can easily use it to pick off a critical target the first shooting phase, and that's one less turn of them having that unit when compared to the Ion Hammer, especially if it's a Flyrant you've swung the game massively.

2.) The extra point of strength on the missiles is also nothing to ignore, as it wounds that much more easily, while also insta-killing more targets. That's literally the difference between one shotting a Broadside, and wounding it once. Yes, they still get their save, but each wound is doubled, meaning that each shot that wounds counts for two that wounded off of the Ion Hammer. Apply that to something with a 3+ save like a Crisis Suit, and all of a sudden you're doing far more damage than the Ion Hammer ever could.

3.) The two Networked Markerlights are also a huge bonus as it can use them to fire its own missiles, but it's also a vehicle, so there's no risk of it getting locked in combat like Pathfinders for example. It's like you're not only getting a better Ion Hammer, but you get two Pathfinders thrown in for free, that can't get locked in combat, and have a higher BS.

4.) If you do the math out on it, and pretend it's just a base tank without the Seekers or Markerlights (which we can calculate as two Pathfinders since they're the cheapest other sources) you find out the base of it, with the two drones or whatever other secondary weapon you choose, is a total of 45 points. Even if we don't subtract the Markerlights it's only 67 points after you take into account the standard Seeker Missile cost.

I mean wouldn't you take a Devilfish that came with two beefed up Pathfinders, Skyfire, more armour, and BS for a total of 67 points, at the cost of not being able to transport anything but those two Pathfinders that could shoot from inside of it?

BS5 ignores cover requires support, cannot be achived solo.
Against a squad, the blast profile of the ionhead would be about as efficient when supported.

The skyray certainly has its perks, alpha being the primary one. but that alpha is not THAT much better than the ion's sustained fire to begin with against most targets, only against 3+ MCs, who are mostly not THAT great of a threat.

Also, skyray like pathfinders risk no getting locked in combat-anything that is tac squad or higher that hits either will erase it.

Yes, the super cheap tank chassis is great. its about like a heavy tetra (more armored/less mobile, better targeting air/worse targeting anything else) with a heavy assortment of missiles.

I'd totally consider a skyray had it cost 67 points with no missiles. its the seekers themselves I have doubts on. I am not sure they are worth 8 points a piece.
Especially when the platform is effectively, immobile. the slightest movement means it can't shoot with any level of usefulness.


Its decent, its has its uses, and it fits a role rather well.
But its far from being the auto-include some people make it out to be.

Skyrays are amazing. I mean, Tinkerr has pointed out why numberous times. It could just be a preferance thing. Personally, I prefer to win. XD I'm teasing.

Just wanted to point out, the skyray's markerlights are networked. So it can provide Ignore Cover by itself (solo if you will). Granted it has to hit with both markerlights!

Also, don't forget that you can still use the Skyray to markerlight AND SMS throughout the entire game. With AV13 in the front, most people will ignore it (they shouldn't) and you get free shots all game. However, if the enemy knows the Ionhead could hurt his army (e.g. - Mech armies), he will simply target it first. Skyrays (without missiles) should not be underestimated. Also, in 7th everything is scoring. It's hard to completely ignore anything these days.

Well technically it can be achieved solo for up to two missiles as the Markerlights on the Skyray are networked, so it can benefit from its own Markerlights.

Also notice how the blast profile is only potentially as efficient when supported, but even then has the downside of "Gets Hot" and scattering, two things that make it far weaker than the Missiles. Not to mention that it's also a blast at that point, so if you're aiming at a single model, it also gets far less shots.

Even if it moves, it can still fire a missile with ignores cover and BS5 at one Markerlight per missile, which is a much better deal than using multiple Markerlights to bring up its normal BS skill to that level. Especially with those Networked Markerlights it can move and fire reasonably well.

Yes, I will agree that it isn't an auto-include in a list, but it's an amazingly powerful unit that should always be considered at the very least. I don't think comparing it to a Hammer Head of any type is reasonable though, and the Skyray does see high level tournament play. For example, the second place list in the Nova Open did run a Skyray: http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/2nd-Brett-Perkins-NovaOpen-2015.pdf

Also cheaper.

I wouldnt replace Hammerheads with Skyrays entirely, but i'd rather mix them than bring multiples of either.

Skyrays fulfill 3 different roles depending on the point of the game. Pre-launch of its seekers, its an insta-gib of any flier 9/10 of the time or heavy damage to a big bug. Its a huge target when the seekers are there because thats a lot of points to take out, but once it fires its not much of a priority since all it can do now is 2 ML and an SMS.
Once it launches, its two-fold role now. One is the obvious, another ML platform that has Skyfire potential. The other is not so obvious, and i really only noticed it because of the way i play my Tau (sacrificial lambs ftw)

Its a durable as gak mobile wall. Usually by the time my Piranha wall falls this thing is already right behind them ready to cockblock any units even further, and its so damn durable they HAVE to try and charge it or get lucky anti-tank shots considering 3+ jink with dpods. It can also ram, a rule that is vastly underestimated. Ive rammed so many expensive units off the table with it lol.

That being said i almost never see a point to have more than 1. The missiles are a one-hit wonder, but their AA potential makes them worth the effort. Hammerheads tend to survive the entire game doing consistent damage, so i bring both.

Pretty much every competitive Tau list brings 2 Skyrays for all of the reasons other posters have listed. They went from being a joke (4th-5th Edition) to easily one of the best units in the codex.