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2015/10/10 14:18:41
Subject: Re:[Kickstarter] Super Dungeon Explore : Legends coming soon!
I have this game, and a few expansions and metal figures.
Anyone else want it, I'm unfortunately not going to be able to get to it.200.00, and you get a good gak load of stuff.
Love the chibis, but real life is getting in the way of my gaming.
PM me if your interested.
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
2015/10/12 18:00:37
Subject: [Kickstarter] Super Dungeon Explore : Legends coming soon!
In regards to the Legends Kickstarter, it had originally been our hope to launch today (Oct 12). However, we are waiting on a few more sculpts and pieces of art to be completed, so that we can launch fully prepared, with a gorgeous lineup of models to show you. We are still planning to launch this month. We will provide everyone with advance notice several days before launch, so that you can be prepared to pledge early. We want to ensure that the forthcoming Kickstarter is our best, and most rewarding one yet!
2015/10/12 19:02:20
Subject: Re:[Kickstarter] Super Dungeon Explore : Legends coming soon!
You’re ready to play Super Dungeon Legends. You’re super excited to advance your Heroes and tell their stories. Except you have a problem. The Heroes of Crystalia are vast and varied, with more coming, and you can’t decide between your Glimmerdusk Ranger, Ezybeth Goldenbow, or your Hearthsworn Fighter, Dugual Drinkstoomuch. It wouldn’t be a big deal if your friends weren’t in a similar quandary of Hero uncertainty. Unfortunately, between the five of you ten Heroes is just a bit much for a “party.”
{super-dungeon-hearthsworn-fighter-2-sculpt}
Don’t despair. It’s Guild Time!
In Super Dungeon Legends, Heroes can purchase a Guild License from the crown and establish their own Guild of Heroes. Guilds allow each player within the party to have up to three Heroes, which they can chose from for each adventure, while allowing all the Heroes of the guild to advance. A party may share items and treasure gained in adventures across all of the Heroes within their guild. Heroes that are in the guild, but which did not participate in an adventure gain crystals to purchase new abilities and skills, albeit at a reduced pace than the Heroes who participated in the adventure. Switching between Heroes is done in downtime, between adventures.
Each player may only have three Heroes in the party’s guild. If a player wishes to add another Hero, and already has three Heroes, the player must dismiss one of their Heroes that are currently in the guild.
Guilds unlock a great deal of versatility for both your options in gameplay, and the stories a player can tell with their Heroes. Perhaps the story you want to tell is of brothers, one practiced in martial prowess, the other in magical might, who must struggle against their differing views on the world in addition to the denizens of darkness. Perhaps your party really needs a dexterity hero this adventure? Or perhaps a model was just released that would fit perfectly into your existing campaign?
{super-dungeon-glimmerdusk-ranger-2-sculpt}
Start Date
Not surprisingly, we’re getting asked a lot about when the Super Dungeon Legends Kickstarter is beginning. It had originally been our hope to launch today (Oct 12). However, we are waiting on a few more sculpts and pieces of art to be completed, so that we can launch fully prepared, with a gorgeous lineup of models to show you.
We know from experience that it is best to launch as prepared as possible and don’t want to rush anything to hit an arbitrary start date. We want to ensure that the forthcoming Kickstarter is our best, and most rewarding one yet!
We are still planning to launch this month. We will provide everyone with advance notice several days before launch, so that you can be prepared to pledge early and join us for the entire journey.
I hope they do another new edition of the rules, further complicating the game of course, replacing all the cards from previous games ... on and on with every new KS until the rules are a phone book and the cards fill a suitcase. That's what I want.
2015/10/13 15:28:57
Subject: [Kickstarter] Super Dungeon Explore : Legends coming soon!
ArtIsGreat wrote: I hope they do another new edition of the rules, further complicating the game of course, replacing all the cards from previous games ... on and on with every new KS until the rules are a phone book and the cards fill a suitcase. That's what I want.
I doubt they will have any of the rules actually 'done' for us to see... :(
Also, the way the figures are getting worse and worse, it looks like every female sculpt is obscenely unreasonable and it is ruining the model line. I know people have complained in the past about the pointlessly oversized boobs on some models, but I wasn't aware 100% of new female sculpts were going to be Marie-Claude levels of boob jobs. It would have been nice to have variety.
My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
MODELING FOR ADVANTAGE TEST: rigeld2: "Easy test - are you willing to play the model as a stock one? No? MFA."
2015/10/13 15:40:44
Subject: [Kickstarter] Super Dungeon Explore : Legends coming soon!
I love SDE, but I can currently play any other game I own at least twice in the time it takes to get through a game of Arcade. Legends adds yet more detail/complication. I doubt it would see my table, hence I won't be pledging.
"The Omnissiah is my Moderati"
2015/10/13 17:16:40
Subject: [Kickstarter] Super Dungeon Explore : Legends coming soon!
JohnHwangDD wrote: Speaking of the excessive boobage, there's actually a discussion on the SDE boards about it.
Excessive is probably the right word tbh. I'm not one of these people who objects from a "it's overly sexual and drives away women" standpoint, although I do agree it just doesn't affect me particularly (the women in my life who might play this won't care). The main problem for me is that some of them just look stupidly out of proportion. Some aren't too bad, but some of the artwork looks genuinely ridiculous.
2015/10/14 02:44:07
Subject: [Kickstarter] Super Dungeon Explore : Legends coming soon!
Yeah, it's always funny to see people complaining about a Super Deformed miniature. Of course their boobs are oversized - by the way, if you didn't notice, the same is for the head. And a lot of other things as well (weapons, guys? Seriously?).
I can see why they did this. You had the answer with the Sister of Light, where it was difficult to tell if it was a girl or a boy. For Chibi characters, it's not always easy to tell the difference.
Here, no prob; you can tell they are women. Unless they're traps.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/10/14 08:57:12
2015/10/14 08:56:57
Subject: [Kickstarter] Super Dungeon Explore : Legends coming soon!
Mymearan wrote: Why is it so important to tell if they are men or women? That's not a good justification at all. It looks ridiculous is all.
Yet, no boobs and Chibi characters can be an opened door for people saying Soda Pop is making "sexually dressed children" miniatures. Yeah, that's stupid and yet I'm pretty sure there are some dumb enough to do it anyway.
So here, big boobs and you can't say they are little girls but fully developped women. In a Super Deformed way.
And anyway, like they said on the official boards, it's not really a big deal. Those "offended" are often not those who are really into Soda Pop products.
After all, it's always the same people who try to see evil where there is not.
2015/10/14 10:15:06
Subject: [Kickstarter] Super Dungeon Explore : Legends coming soon!
I remember during the FK campaign there were one or two backers that tried protesting the "sexualising of children", not understanding that these aren't miniatures of children.
If people really have a problem with the bewbs on SDE minis, God help them if they see any of Soda Pop's other games...
"The Omnissiah is my Moderati"
2015/10/14 10:24:10
Subject: [Kickstarter] Super Dungeon Explore : Legends coming soon!
Alex C wrote: I remember during the FK campaign there were one or two backers that tried protesting the "sexualising of children", not understanding that these aren't miniatures of children.
If people really have a problem with the bewbs on SDE minis, God help them if they see any of Soda Pop's other games...
I'll have a go at replying to this one - I see the models in SDE as being 'cute' in style, and in my experience they have a more universal appeal than traditional 28mm miniatures. That is, I see this game being enjoyed by families with children both online and at conventions, and the models have elicited more favourable comments from female players than those of other games I own.
The more recent SDE sculpts are a heavy deviation from the original style, and are more inherently sexualised. This is not in itself a bad thing, but I both find this to be less aesthetically pleasing in this context (I think it looks deeply strange) and I feel that it narrows the range of people I would be comfortable playing the game with. It pushes the look of the game away from "fun cartoon adventure" and into "extremely specific fetish".
I also have an affinity for the anime aesthetic in general, and was interested in Relic Knights when it launched on Kickstarter. I admit that my preferences for anime tend to be for things produced before 2006 or so, because that point marked a shift from a style containing sexualised elements to being a style almost exclusively about those sexualised elements. I was torn between liking the huge robots and demons and bikers and magicians and strange fuzzy creatures of Relic Knights, but having a strong distaste for some of the choices they made with their female characters.
So my present attitude towards Sodapop is - "you're one of the only miniatures companies making things in this style I like, certainly the only one to be doing it affordably, but you've always had a moderately creepy undercurrent to your work and I feel that this is being increasingly brought to the surface and preventing me from enjoying it".
I wrestle with this a bit on Kingdom Death as well, for what it's worth.
2015/10/14 13:28:02
Subject: Re:[Kickstarter] Super Dungeon Explore : Legends coming soon!
It's not because the game can be played by children that it is really intended for them.
SDE takes its inspiration from old arcade games. That's not the current "new" generation who know them - it's the former. They may, of course, but the design wasn't childish for targeting young children specifically.
Always IMHO, of course.
And honestly...did you really see the first female miniatures for SDE? Sure, if you stop at Princess Ruby, she's all cute and lovely - but that's because of her design being exactly that. Looking at the Angel Girl and the others, they're not especially "sexyless". Didn't hear any parent playing with their children at SDE complaining about how the Sorceress looked like - because she's quite revealing, in her SDE way.
So yeah, it's a storm in a water glass for the sake to have one, to me. I believe children can stand some bigger boobs than before. That's not what will stop them from playing.
2015/10/14 14:26:46
Subject: [Kickstarter] Super Dungeon Explore : Legends coming soon!
Bioptic wrote: It pushes the look of the game away from "fun cartoon adventure" and into "extremely specific fetish".
So my present attitude towards Sodapop is - "you're one of the only miniatures companies making things in this style I like, certainly the only one to be doing it affordably, but you've always had a moderately creepy undercurrent to your work and I feel that this is being increasingly brought to the surface and preventing me from enjoying it".
This is it. Period.
I really think more people are not asking for censorship as much as variety. The sorceress being revealing in a set of 8+ heroes of varying shape and size is seen as normal. an entire line where every single female sculpt is extreme boobs and revealing costume is seen as sexualizing. And anything 'chibi' will be seen as 'child-like' by definition both by people aware of anime tropes and casual bystanders.
My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
MODELING FOR ADVANTAGE TEST: rigeld2: "Easy test - are you willing to play the model as a stock one? No? MFA."
2015/10/14 14:40:32
Subject: Re:[Kickstarter] Super Dungeon Explore : Legends coming soon!
This reminds me a bit of a conversation I had with some folks about Nendoroid (A line of Chibi figures) Raiden from MGS2, and the alternate body it comes with.
The sorceress being revealing in a set of 8+ heroes of varying shape and size is seen as normal. an entire line where every single female sculpt is extreme boobs and revealing costume is seen as sexualizing. And anything 'chibi' will be seen as 'child-like' by definition both by people aware of anime tropes and casual bystanders.
The only difference is their boob size (I would say miniature scale as well, though) and more details. Their costumes didn't change.
Just check the first edition miniatures and see the renders next to them. Poses aren't especially more or less "sexy" than before. First barbarian wasn't especially wearing much, it's just that her big axe was right in front of her torso, so you couldn't really see her boobs. But by looking at her back, you could imagine how few she was wearing at that place...
Also, note you see renders here - actual painted miniatures may "feel" different. For example, you seem to see the Burglar Cat as a "revealing sexy" miniature. Not sure you will say the same if it is painted in a way her boobs don't show any skin...and she wears trousers, by the way. Too bad for your "statement" of all female miniatures being showed in a sexy way for "new SDE".
Style is still "cartoon" and "super deformed". And if people think "child-like" with such big boobs...they really need to check their eyes.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/10/14 15:27:26
2015/10/14 15:34:12
Subject: [Kickstarter] Super Dungeon Explore : Legends coming soon!
Sarouan wrote:Those "offended" are often not those who are really into Soda Pop products.
After all, it's always the same people who try to see evil where there is not.
Alex C wrote:If people really have a problem with the bewbs on SDE minis, God help them if they see any of Soda Pop's other games...
Alex C wrote:Unfortunately some folks are of the mindset that if they don't like it, they have to protect everyone from the evil and stop it being made available.
That applies to more things in life than just chibi bewbs, too...
Let's be really fething clear about what's going on here, rather than saying totally moronic things about those who criticize SPM.
1. I'm hugely into SPM product, having preordered the original SDE, backed for a bunch of Relic Knights, and backed for nearly the entire Forgotten King, on top of other SDE stuff that I've purchased at retail. I can dislike SPM pushing for bigger boobs while still having been into SPM product. Not at all unlike how I might criticize GW for their various failings, despite having bought excessively vast quantitties of their their product.
2. I've seen plenty of their other games, and I choose not to back the more cheesecakey stuff like Henticle Bento. I followed NAS, and decided it wasn't for me. That doesn't mean I can't have a problem with SPM making SDE more about boobs.
3. I don't need to protect anyone, and it is a fallacious argument on your part that I'm doing anything to protect anyone. You're the one strawmanning "Think of the children." Not me or the rest. If I don't like it, as above I'm more than entitled to express my opinion, both here on Dakka and elsewhere. Maybe you should learn to argue before you post stupid stuff.
JohnHwangDD wrote: You wrote: "if they don't like it, they have to protect everyone from the evil and stop it being made available"
That, right there, is a "think of the children".
Ah, I thought you meant I was trying to protect the kids from boobies on small cartoony models. Misunderstanding, sorry!
We did have those people on the FK comments though when the campaign was running, so they exist, I didn't think I was strawmanning. It's those people I was really talking about, not those who just find the size/explicity unappealing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/14 18:12:41
"The Omnissiah is my Moderati"
2015/10/14 21:59:23
Subject: [Kickstarter] Super Dungeon Explore : Legends coming soon!
Bioptic wrote: The more recent SDE sculpts are a heavy deviation from the original style, and are more inherently sexualised. This is not in itself a bad thing, but I both find this to be less aesthetically pleasing in this context (I think it looks deeply strange) and I feel that it narrows the range of people I would be comfortable playing the game with. It pushes the look of the game away from "fun cartoon adventure" and into "extremely specific fetish".
Should be interesting to see how Arcadia Quest does vs. SDE. They're different game mechanics entirely, but BGG'ers keep lumping games together based on theme. Uh... assuming AQ doesn't do the sexualized thing. It would be a shame to reduce the customer base size purely on a small change in the aesthetics.
Man maybe I'm just crazy but I'm reeeeally having a hard time seeing some of these bust differences... Sure, the art may show them with a more modest breast, but even the 1.0 minis were quite chesty in comparison. And I mean if we want to split hairs here to me it looks like the Barb's breasts are smaller in 2.0, and all around we're looking at less exposed breast. Sure, there's still cleavage but it's not as plunging as some of the 1.0 minis.
Also I know we haven't seen the new Riftling Rogue yet, but she has a similar pose to the Cat burgler so I figured a comparison couldn't hurt. Their bust seems to be the same, if not smaller on the Cat Burgler side.
Also, dear lord the 2.0 minis have such detailed hair
You can see on the pictures (and actual renders from that time) that boobs were always here.
Here is another, for those who seem to have a very selective memory;
Tranc wrote:I don't think it's the poses...
SDE artwork has always shown large breasts on their female figures, even in SDE 1.0.
I was half right, I think the poses do play a part now, because the Ember Mage, Glimmerdusk Ranger and Claw Tribe Barbarian all wielded their weapons 2-handed in 1.0, which meant that the weapons obscured their breasts. In 2.0, said breasts are now right in your face so it becomes more apparent that they're all large.
It should be noted, however, that the 1.0 figures Exeltus showed above are more detailed rendors of the 1.0 miniatures, and not the minis themselves:
Finally, one comparison that he missed:
This one is very interesting because you see the actual miniature of Glimmerdusk Ranger. And yes, she has big boobs. It's just that with the bow put on, you don't really see it.
Otherwise, may I make your remember the legendary trailer made for SDE in a video? Well, here it is for you;
And yeah, boobs again. With a boob joke. So cute and friendly for children, right?
To put the cherry on top, Usagi's quote;
Usagi wrote:
Exeltus wrote:
(lots of relevant images snipped for length)
Man maybe I'm just crazy but I'm reeeeally having a hard time seeing some of these bust differences... Sure, the art may show them with a more modest breast, but even the 1.0 minis were quite chesty in comparison. And I mean if we want to split hairs here to me it looks like the Barb's breasts are smaller in 2.0, and all around we're looking at less exposed breast. Sure, there's still cleavage but it's not as plunging as some of the 1.0 minis.
(more images snipped)
Also I know we haven't seen the new Riftling Rogue yet, but she has a similar pose to the Cat burgler so I figured a comparison couldn't hurt. Their bust seems to be the same, if not smaller on the Cat Burgler side.
Also, dear lord the 2.0 minis have such detailed hair
What you have to remember is that what the facts are don't matter. If you _feel_ like you're right about it, then you should start yelling about it. Even immediately after a post that very strongly shows factual, visual, evidence that the whole "balooning boobies" argument is a pile of monkey dung.
But, yeah, I'm on Exealtus' side here. As I said before, any perceived difference is mostly coming from a change in pose and slight variance in style. The argument is still ridiculous to even be having. And the people threatening with "very seriously asking myself whether this is a product I want to continue supporting" over something that is little more than a perceived (not actual as Exeltus has basically proven) are either way, way too sensitive or, prone to making hyperbolic threats. If it's the first one, then your loss of business is inevitable. If not over this, than over the use of the wrong font in an example in a rule book some day. If it's the second one, there's no way it can be taken seriously for the third or fourth time it's been used now. When you keep crying wolf, people stop caring.
Nuff said.
So, still complaining? Then take a better look at what was really made at that time...you will discover there is no "sudden change". It was always there.
Also, please remember these are renders and we didn't see all the monsters/male characters. There may be a difference with the actual miniature.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/15 11:24:21
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