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 PsychoticStorm wrote:

It seems, because I have encountered it in the past, their courier company refuses to accept Greece is in Europe (because) and charges a lot, or they did not get the discount for low moving countries, in either case they did not try to find a better solution for countries outside their hotspots.

I guess I'm of the belief that this isn't unreasonable.

Unfortunate for you, sure. But if it's more expensive for them, or takes that much extra effort, then I can't say I blame them.

Different points of view, different ideologies I guess, easy of course when you are the biggest market and everybody tries to pamper backers from there vs been the minority and when a company gets big starts ignoring you.

I have already stopped caring about CMON projects for this reason it will be sad if Sodapop ends in this place too.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Different points of view, different ideologies I guess, easy of course when you are the biggest market and everybody tries to pamper backers from there vs been the minority and when a company gets big starts ignoring you.

I have already stopped caring about CMON projects for this reason it will be sad if Sodapop ends in this place too.

Well, the good news is you have companies like Drawlab to make some miniatures for you, in country.

Shipping is expensive.

For me to ship this parcel to California from Ohio, it would probably cost close to $30.

I don't begrudge companies for causing actual shipping charges. I've played plenty of high shipping costs from countries in Europe.

But complaining about it at this point is pretty tiresome and, quite frankly, reeks of entitlement.

nkelsch wrote:
Retail costs
SDE 2.0 = 100$
Midnight tower = 60$
Frostbyte ravagers = 40$
Crown Guard = 40$
Princess hero = 13$

200$ pledge = 233$ of MSRP.

SDE 2.0 will be $80, rather than $100 like FK.
Legends should be priced like a tile pack = $30, but will probably be priced at $40
And there was a spawn point unlocked, $15 value

So...

$40 SD Legends & Princess Amethyst
$80 SDE 2.0
$60 Midnight Tower
$40 Frostbyte Ravagers
$40 Crown Guard

= $260 retail total

plus "free" SGs:

$15 Tower Guard
$13 Riflting Rogue

$288 retail total for $200, a 30% "savings".

I'm not sure that this will be as good of a value as Forgotten King, though.

It's finally here, nice! Miniatures are looking very cool!

Still the 1st day so I wouldn't worry too much about the savings yet. (I want more stuff though, so I hope it gets better)

Regarding shipping, being in California has cost me well upwards of 25+ for most big ticket campaigns these days. Big heavy boxes aren't cheap to ship. Does make me pine for the days when companies offered free shipping included in their pledges.

nkelsch wrote:
Legends has no models and I have nothing to compare it to value wise... That is essentially 'vaporware' right now.

So 60$ for SDE 2.0, + 60$ for the tower makes legends 30$ for a box of paper?

As for comparing, I think you compare with a softback RPG expansion. Although if it were a GW expansion, $50!

Dude, I paid $100 for a HUGE box of paper when I did the Ogre KS. 28 lbs!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
70$ for a country in Europe, no its not actual shipping costs, I have shipped far heavier and bulkier stuff from Japan with EMS for 1/4th of the cost.

It seems, because I have encountered it in the past, their courier company refuses to accept Greece is in Europe (because) and charges a lot, or they did not get the discount for low moving countries, in either case they did not try to find a better solution for countries outside their hotspots.

A nice way to kill the game in a country and create a bad taste to a part of your loyal supporters, vocal or not.

Or maybe Greece doesn't have efficient, reliable, secure delivery, government, finances & infrastructure like Germany, plus it's very far from the German logistics center receiving product.

It seems easy enough: don't back the KS, and (maybe) wait for retail. If these KS see that the Greeks keep their wallets closed, they will have to decide whether passing the full cost and risk of doing business in Greece is the correct strategy.

Day one and already complaints about shipping. I still don't understand the thought process - "Hey, ship this heavy box(es) of stuff to me for free because reasons."

Pay for your shipping or don't pledge. I've done it several times for any other Kickstarter project without causing a fuss. Any time I thought it was too much, I simply just said "I'll get it at retail," and moved on with my life.

On a KS-related note, things look fairly well thought out. I'll need to go over it thoroughly tonight before considering pledging - do I really need more minis to paint?

~iPaint

It was mentioned in the comments that the plan is for most stretch goals to be free and included.

Hopefully if add ons happen, they just happen.

I think the easiest possible add on would be make a set of upgraded heroes for when they hit their high level classes.

The demand would be there and it's not like there aren't already people buying this game just for the minis.

How about Ship to me in a reasonable rate? not free, just not extortionately expensive?

But as I said above different ideologies, about the subject.
I do remember when the opposite happens, the rare few times, when a small EU based kickstarter happens, the rage is justified when the opposite happens from a big company, the minor countries must put it up and a reasonable argument, shipping directly from Japan for cheaper as an individual instead of shipping directly from within EU as a big company.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Or maybe Greece doesn't have efficient, reliable, secure delivery, government, finances & infrastructure like Germany, plus it's very far from the German logistics center receiving product.

It seems easy enough: don't back the KS, and (maybe) wait for retail. If these KS see that the Greeks keep their wallets closed, they will have to decide whether passing the full cost and risk of doing business in Greece is the correct strategy.

Infrastructure is good enough all the big courier companies are represented here, as to how big is the local gaming scene small as is in most countries ending up in the expensive shipping tiers, a sign of "we don't care about our fans outside the big spending countries?" I hope not.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
How about Ship to me in a reasonable rate? not free, just not extortionately expensive?

So, for you, what is this magical "reasonable rate?"

And if your magic number is less than what it actually costs said company to ship, are you expecting that they pay the difference?

30$ would sound reasonable and even then it is half the cost of the game, at 70$ the shipping is more expensive than the game which is unreasonable.

Of course at the higher tiers 70$ is "just" 1/3rd and not many would care for the basic pledge anyway.

In any case you will not agree and you have not produced a valid argument except "oh shipping is what it is pay for it" so lets agree to disagree.

The argument, "you should pay your actual shipping costs" Is pretty darn valid.

So please, present to me a valid argument why they should pay for part of your shipping?

As more than one person in this thread has already said, it will cost close to $30 to ship to portions of the U.S.

My heart and wallet are torn,

I fear I will have to abandon Chibitopia for the horrors of Mythosville as I can't afford both

Curse reality and it's limits on buying cool stuff!

(Can you get a PM spot with a $1 pledge on this one? I still might not be able to spend more, but at least it would kick the can a few months down the road)

So it'd cost $40-46 USD to ship a 2lbs box to Greece from the states, SDE is likely already heavier than that.

You do realize it is not shipped from US but from Germany and that bulk shippers get significant discount.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
You do realize it is not shipped from US but from Germany and that bulk shippers get significant discount.

I realize a lot of things.

I know that both the 2.0 box and the 2xWarbands have the same nominal Kickstarter price of $60 and $80 retail, but the former just seems to have so much more value to me. Maybe it's just that the warbands don't really appeal.

But in either case, I'm in a dilemma - I don't want either warband, and I already own the original base game! But I do want the proper new expansion, RPG rules and the nice freebies. Hmm.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
How about Ship to me in a reasonable rate? not free, just not extortionately expensive?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Or maybe Greece doesn't have efficient, reliable, secure delivery, government, finances & infrastructure like Germany, plus it's very far from the German logistics center receiving product.

It seems easy enough: don't back the KS, and (maybe) wait for retail. If these KS see that the Greeks keep their wallets closed, they will have to decide whether passing the full cost and risk of doing business in Greece is the correct strategy.

Infrastructure is good enough all the big courier companies are represented here, as to how big is the local gaming scene small as is in most countries ending up in the expensive shipping tiers, a sign of "we don't care about our fans outside the big spending countries?" I hope not.

$70 seems completely reasonable, given that Greece is being treated no worse than anywhere in Africa.

The fact that courier companies have to deliver in Greece does not mean that Greece is any sort of functional country with smart, efficient logistics any more that the same can be said of Italy. Hell, middle America has to deal with California and the rest of the Left Coast - doesn't mean we have our gak together...

There a number of US businesses that refuse to ship into Italy, so KS boycotting Greece is not out of the question.


Quite frankly, the discussion of whether Greece deserves subsidized shipping is ridiculous. Either pay the $70 or don't. We can't (and won't) help you get subsidized shipping because it means that the rest of us would have to pay more for our shipping. I decline to do that, and will argue vociferously against having the big countries subsidize the small ones.

 Cyporiean wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
You do realize it is not shipped from US but from Germany and that bulk shippers get significant discount.

I realize a lot of things.

Cool so we can agree to disagree?

Bioptic wrote:
I know that both the 2.0 box and the 2xWarbands have the same nominal Kickstarter price of $60 and $80 retail, but the former just seems to have so much more value to me. Maybe it's just that the warbands don't really appeal.

But in either case, I'm in a dilemma - I don't want either warband, and I already own the original base game! But I do want the proper new expansion, RPG rules and the nice freebies. Hmm.

I'm in much the same boat. I'd like Legends + SGs for $100.

Eurosenders base price to ship a 10kg package from Germany to Greece is 54€.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
How about Ship to me in a reasonable rate? not free, just not extortionately expensive?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Or maybe Greece doesn't have efficient, reliable, secure delivery, government, finances & infrastructure like Germany, plus it's very far from the German logistics center receiving product.

It seems easy enough: don't back the KS, and (maybe) wait for retail. If these KS see that the Greeks keep their wallets closed, they will have to decide whether passing the full cost and risk of doing business in Greece is the correct strategy.

Infrastructure is good enough all the big courier companies are represented here, as to how big is the local gaming scene small as is in most countries ending up in the expensive shipping tiers, a sign of "we don't care about our fans outside the big spending countries?" I hope not.

$70 seems completely reasonable, given that Greece is being treated no worse than anywhere in Africa.

The fact that courier companies have to deliver in Greece does not mean that Greece is any sort of functional country with smart, efficient logistics any more that the same can be said of Italy. Hell, middle America has to deal with California and the rest of the Left Coast - doesn't mean we have our gak together...

There a number of US businesses that refuse to ship into Italy, so KS boycotting Greece is not out of the question.


Quite frankly, the discussion of whether Greece deserves subsidized shipping is ridiculous. Either pay the $70 or don't. We can't (and won't) help you get subsidized shipping because it means that the rest of us would have to pay more for our shipping. I decline to do that, and will argue vociferously against having the big countries subsidize the small ones.

The discussion is that it is... why do I even bother, have a nice day.

Your argument has consisted of "I don't want to pay for the full cost of shipping." That's about it.

 cincydooley wrote:
Your argument has consisted of "I don't want to pay for the full cost of shipping." That's about it.

My argument is

A all the previous years they didn't need to resort in such high shipping CMON and Sodapop suddenly changed it, maybe it has to do that now they are "established" maybe not.
B Other companies not related to kickstarter ship for far cheaper heavier and bulkier items.
C for a (my assumption) heavily discounted courier service for such a bulk shipper the cost is unreasonably high.
D Its not if I want to pay the full cost of shipping, I dispute this is the full cost or otherwise that they did not put an effort to bargain a better shipping terms for the "insignificant countries".

So no it is not "I don't want to pay the full shipping".

In at the full $200, but I'll probably drop down to $150 and get rid of the two extra warbands as they are a bit meh imo. I don't know though, as $50 for the two warbands is pretty cheap compared to what I'd probably be looking at if I bought them retail in £, but the human one in particular doesn't impress me at all. I guess I have plenty of time to mull it over.

BigOscar wrote:
I'll probably drop down to $150 and get rid of the two extra warbands as they are a bit meh imo.

I don't know though, as $50 for the two warbands is pretty cheap compared to what I'd probably be looking at if I bought them retail in £,

the human one in particular doesn't impress me at all.

Yeah, I'm of a similar mind, already having the original SDE, and not that enthused over the warbands..

I think the warband price is OK, if you like them. If you buy them on holiday discount this time next year, they'd be just as cheap.

The Frostbyte orc warband is better than the human Guard one, but are they worth $50 to me?

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

BigOscar wrote:
I'll probably drop down to $150 and get rid of the two extra warbands as they are a bit meh imo.

I don't know though, as $50 for the two warbands is pretty cheap compared to what I'd probably be looking at if I bought them retail in £,

the human one in particular doesn't impress me at all.

Yeah, I'm of a similar mind, already having the original SDE, and not that enthused over the warbands..

I think the warband price is OK, if you like them. If you buy them on holiday discount this time next year, they'd be just as cheap.

The Frostbyte orc warband is better than the human Guard one, but are they worth $50 to me?

I'm guessing I could easily pay the extra $50, then sell the human warband on ebay and get most of that $50 back tbh, but then it's whether it's worth the hassle and whether I'd actually get round to it or just end up keeping it and never touching it. I'm sure I'll end up changing my mind a bunch of times over the next 3 weeks, but I'm leaning towards being sensible and just not buying them

Selling the human warband will net you $30+S&H based on the $40 MSRP - it's not exclusive, and it'll hit retail soon enough.

Still, if you can get $50 for it, awesome!

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Selling the human warband will net you $30+S&H based on the $40 MSRP - it's not exclusive, and it'll hit retail soon enough.

Still, if you can get $50 for it, awesome!

I don't know for sure, but in England the prices aren't so low. warbands sell for £30 I believe, which is more like $40-45. they aren't as commonly sold here either so great deals are harder to come by, I'm not sure it's that heavily imported. (again could be wrong, I haven't looked into it much) England is usually expensive, making KS's that work in $'s just so bloody tempting!