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In at Legend level.

I'm weak...

I'm not sure what level to pledge at ... After seeing the contents I feel like I can live without the new 2.0 starter.

And I'm not seeing much in Legends that I'd really be hot for either (500 cards, yikes!).

I do like the new warbands, and hooray for gender-swap heroes! What to do, what to do ...

I don't think you will have an issue unloading extra warbands. Being 40$ MRSP, getting 2 for 50$ means you can sell them for what you paid for and still be a big discount.

I have to say I am surprised and happy they went with such traditional euro-fantasy tropes for this KS. Medieval humans, Savage Orcs, Dark Elves is far from Japanese RPG stuff.

I feel like the billmen, grobbits frog knights and such were a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge miss. Von Drakk was a huge seller because undead is a common fantasy thing.

Humans, Orcs, Undead, Zombies, Dragons, Elves, Elementals = Awesome

Weird turtles, Platypus men, Mushroom thingies = little less awesome...

I think AQ showed how much people wanted traditional themes. Orcs, Undead, Demons.

My wife and I are approaching this KS with our normal Super Dungeon attitude: buy (almost) all the things! We're in at Legendary level. I LOVE the Lightning Mage, the Midnight Tower, the Sanctioned Witch, and the gender-bent original heroes!

My only gripe is that the estimated delivery is December 2016, that's a long time to wait! I wish we didn't have to wait so long between SDE expansions, but oh well, count me in!

 The Fragile Breath wrote:


My only gripe is that the estimated delivery is December 2016, that's a long time to wait! I wish we didn't have to wait so long between SDE expansions, but oh well, count me in!

I guess that is why digital rules will be available 'sooner' to keep us playing. I also think that CMoN is forcing Sodapop to release small retail stuff to keep people engaged. I would expect another release like this october witch/pumpkin sometime between now and december 2016.

Why would CMoN be forcing them to do anything? They split up.

Must say that the artwork for that male Ember Mage is hitting all the right notes for me. Reminds me of Vivi from FFIX

 Dentry wrote:
Must say that the artwork for that male Ember Mage is hitting all the right notes for me. Reminds me of Vivi from FFIX

Yep, he's awesome I was asking for a Black Mage during the Forgotten King campaign, he's finally here!

New Ember mage is pretty cool.

I really do hope we see some sort of "Always Super" upgraded hero box for those S/XS levels in campaigns.

As much as I'm usually a fan of the bizarre and unique, I do like that they're playing it pretty safe with the fantasy tropes this time around.

Really liking the male ember mage too. Love the new pets so far also.

Please Note: These rules will undergo a moderate revision and update for their inclusion in Super Dungeon Explore: Second Edition

I know this shouldn't give me hope but it does. Like some slight rewording is going to make games not last days, and from a company that rolls its eyes when confronted with their rules being gak. Still hopeful tho!

 Alex C wrote:
Why would CMoN be forcing them to do anything? They split up.

Forcing them by what they do with AQ. By releasing frequent even if small updates for AQ, SDE risks becoming irrelevant like it did last time it had a 2 year lapse in product release.

I think soda pop realizes that they need to do retail releases in addition to KS releases to keep players engaged.

nkelsch wrote:

 Alex C wrote:
Why would CMoN be forcing them to do anything? They split up.

Forcing them by what they do with AQ. By releasing frequent even if small updates for AQ, SDE risks becoming irrelevant like it did last time it had a 2 year lapse in product release.

I think soda pop realizes that they need to do retail releases in addition to KS releases to keep players engaged.

Ah I see

I read that line about rules revisions and had a small pang of hope that they take those of us with ADD riddled families into account.

We want to play, the kids want to play, but nobody has the patience for such long sessions.

I also have a good excuse to finally pick up Ser Snapjaw too...

Will the single blister models be compatible with the new edition?

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
Your argument has consisted of "I don't want to pay for the full cost of shipping." That's about it.

My argument is

A all the previous years they didn't need to resort in such high shipping CMON and Sodapop suddenly changed it, maybe it has to do that now they are "established" maybe not.
B Other companies not related to kickstarter ship for far cheaper heavier and bulkier items.
C for a (my assumption) heavily discounted courier service for such a bulk shipper the cost is unreasonably high.
D Its not if I want to pay the full cost of shipping, I dispute this is the full cost or otherwise that they did not put an effort to bargain a better shipping terms for the "insignificant countries".

So no it is not "I don't want to pay the full shipping".

CMON, Sodapop and many other companies have come out and stated why they needed to charge actual shipping. You don't see USA backers suddenly yelling that their previously free shipping costs them now.

But to be fair, I looked up a FedEx shipping quote for 10kg / 13" x 13" x 13" shipping carton from Berlin to Greece. 10kg is based on my Blood Rage package with everything in it and volumetric weight calculations.

FedEx international economy comes in at $51.34. FedEx typical discount is supposed to be around 30%, the total now is about $40. Add in credit card fees, shipping the last mile to Greece is $42. You can use this ratefinder yourself: https://www.fedex.com/ratefinder/

Now you add pick and pack and fulfilment services - maybe around $6 inclusive of KS fees. So you have $48.

Then you add the cost of the outer carton and packing materials - about $1.50, let's say $2 with fees - $50.

Then you add import duty and VAT paid usually on manufacturing costs - 20% of let's say $25 = $5.50 with fees - $55.50

Now add in 15% wriggle room in the total due to uncertainty, especially since it's Greece which has bad reputation for logistics and horrible customs (lost packages, shipping again because recipient or delivery guy confused etc) = $63.83.

So Sodapop is overcharging you $6+ if you view that their time should be factored in to the pledge level.

However, If you think that Sodapop should not have a safety net, then they are overcharging you $14.50 - but this number depends on how many optional items you get because it affects the VAT.

I don't think it's super unreasonable either way, but it probably makes it not worth it for you to buy from them, and not worth it for them to sell to you. Just lots of pain all around. In neither scenario do you end up with the $40 number you want to see. Until there are enough Greek customers to justify a Greek shipping hub (and a Greek shipping hub that is actually reliable), I don't see that changing. You had a good run getting subsidized shipping from everyone else, but it looks like that gravy train is over.

No one is intentionally victimizing Greece or you. It just sucks to be in a country with poor reliability, poor infrastructure, and not enough customers.

Sometime wrote:
However, If you think that Sodapop should not have a safety net, then they are overcharging you $14.50 - but this number depends on how many optional items you get because it affects the VAT.

I don't think it's super unreasonable either way, but it probably makes it not worth it for you to buy from them, and not worth it for them to sell to you. Just lots of pain all around. In neither scenario do you end up with the $40 number you want to see. Until there are enough Greek customers to justify a Greek shipping hub (and a Greek shipping hub that is actually reliable), I don't see that changing. You had a good run getting subsidized shipping from everyone else, but it looks like that gravy train is over.

No one is intentionally victimizing Greece or you. It just sucks to be in a country with poor reliability, poor infrastructure, and not enough customers.

Given where the Greek government is, I think it's prudent to assume they will increase VAT charges and customs fees, as that allows them to tax non Eurozone companies.

Also, Legends does not appear to have any optional items. It looks like fixed pledge packages without any add-ons or options, take it or leave it. This simplifies distribution, as each of the pledge levels can be pre-packed at the factory, with no pick-and-pack afterward. Then it's straight distribution, followed by wholesale / retail. IMO, the pendulum has swung too far, but we'll see.

Most of the Greek issues appear to be self-inflicted, and I don't see them digging out in the immediate future.

Shipping to Germany might be half or a third of what it was for NAS (30$). Kinda sucks, because I wanted that and dropped.it because of shipping and here I dislike almost all minis. What happened to those poor cute dragon babies?! Only liking the genderswap heroes, knights and the SG pets and creeps. drawings, so sculpts might be bad as well. Lol@150$ for SG access.

Pass.

Edit: Slander against frog knights AND Nazi-accusations against Germany because of our government and its bankster crownies? Time to abandon thread.

Sigh, nobody agrees to disagree.

My personal experience from other companies and kickstarters shipping here is different and I doubt they eat up the costs for small counties like mine, especially the non kickstarter companies.

And no while this country is far from perfect as, is every country, it is not as bad as you may think, make it sound like, or the media you read show it.

And here is another Legend pledge.

Since it's quite a "smaller one" (it's "only" 200$ for the take-it-all), it's already quite a success to see such an amount at start.

I'm glad to see there will be alternative "gender swap" miniatures for the original heroes. I'm liking them so far, especially the Male Ember Mage. Such a sweet reference to Black Mage!

Now, let's begin the journey...

@binabik - I'm sorry.

cincydooley wrote:Well, the good news is you have companies like Drawlab to make some miniatures for you, in country.

You have a bone to pick with this country or me? there is also Shieldwoulf who makes wonderful models and it is irrelevant, Yes, Drawlabs made a big mistake its up to them to clear it up or die because of it but what has to do with this thread except you giving a low blow towards a country, I did not complain for the many kickstarters coming from US who were money grabs or produced a vastly inferior product, it is irrelevant and I can separate companies, individuals and countries.

In any case in your view I am an entitled whiner who has the audacity to complain for perfectly reasonable shipping fees, in my view I complain because the fee is from the experience I have from the past 20 years too much and I have encountered it only when one particular courier service is been involved, lastly no Greece and Africa is not the same thing and been at the same shipping costs is ridiculous.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Most of the Greek issues appear to be self-inflicted, and I don't see them digging out in the immediate future.

I would wish it was so black and white or that simple, but this is irrelevant for this thread.

MacMuckles wrote:
Will the single blister models be compatible with the new edition?

I'll just re-ask, in the hopes that we can get away from the ugliness that this thread is turning into...

Weren't all single blister models issued new cards in the previous kickstarter?

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Weren't all single blister models issued new cards in the previous kickstarter?

Indeed they were!

 JohnHwangDD wrote:


Given where the Greek government is, I think it's prudent to assume they will increase VAT charges and customs fees, as that allows them to tax non Eurozone companies.

Also, Legends does not appear to have any optional items. It looks like fixed pledge packages without any add-ons or options, take it or leave it. This simplifies distribution, as each of the pledge levels can be pre-packed at the factory, with no pick-and-pack afterward. Then it's straight distribution, followed by wholesale / retail. IMO, the pendulum has swung too far, but we'll see.

As I understand it, since Greece is part of the Euro zone it doesn't get to charge VAT again - 20% seems to be the norm for the EU. Pick and pack, the logistics companies want $4 just to touch a package - I was already figuring the $5 as being slightly on the low side - but overall it doesn't change the equation very much. The thing that has a lot of variability would be the import VAT.

 Alex C wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Weren't all single blister models issued new cards in the previous kickstarter?

Indeed they were!

I'm sorry for the ignorance, but is that a yes? Already released blisters are now up to date and will be compatible with this set? I haven't followed the game at all (this kickstarter will be my first experience with it) but th I don't want to buy models with the intent to play and start a collection only to find it obsolete due to the 2nd edition...

MacMuckles wrote:

 Alex C wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Weren't all single blister models issued new cards in the previous kickstarter?

Indeed they were!

I'm sorry for the ignorance, but is that a yes? Already released blisters are now up to date and will be compatible with this set? I haven't followed the game at all (this kickstarter will be my first experience with it) but th I don't want to buy models with the intent to play and start a collection only to find it obsolete due to the 2nd edition...

Not sure if current packs have the new cards. I imagine they would, but you might want to contact SPM to confirm.

Forgotten King KS gave us updated cards for everything and you can buy the updated cards in a pack on their store.

Thanks, I will do just that! In other, more relevant news, the kickstarter is 477% funded as this is being written and is sitting pretty at $382, 000. We're staring down the last 2 stretch goals and it's been less than a day

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
You do realize it is not shipped from US but from Germany and that bulk shippers get significant discount.

that is indeed true,

but

since they are importing a container of games into Germany they have to pay VAT on it (and since the law was tightened up in January the VAT is based on the PLEDGE value, not the manufacturing cost.... yes the EU have woken up to KS companies playing with their numbers and specifically moved to stop it)

they also have to pay a 3rd party company to ship (if packing is done in china) or pack and ship and that's not free

all these cost increases hit me too and it sucks, (and means some KS are just not worth backing if I think the products will hit retail), but sadly that's the way it is, the cost of international stuff has gone up a lot in the last few years

(worth having a look at indiegogo as there are a lot more projects from European companies on there which will be cheaper in terms of shipping)